They learn via grouping with guildies or friends. They learn by doing delves or dungeons and working up the line of difficulty. They learn by reading how others have accomplished "x" and then going out and giving it a go. They learn by marching up to glowing portals and poking them (LOL, that would be me).

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

They learn via grouping with guildies or friends. They learn by doing delves or dungeons and working up the line of difficulty. They learn by reading how others have accomplished "x" and then going out and giving it a go. They learn by marching up to glowing portals and poking them (LOL, that would be me).

Plus, not all folk CARE about doing "end-game" content. I don't. It's of no interest to me so I'm not fussed about needing to learn much more than I already know.

DuskMarine wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

They learn via grouping with guildies or friends. They learn by doing delves or dungeons and working up the line of difficulty. They learn by reading how others have accomplished "x" and then going out and giving it a go. They learn by marching up to glowing portals and poking them (LOL, that would be me).

Yeah but that´s the point: once you´ve learned, the content has long since been too easy for it to matter much. I don´t even do the healing meachanics on the engine guardian on vet since it´s just.. meh.

Overland content is what, 80-90%+ of the game? And the DLCs are mostly overland content. Still, your character´s power increases to 'easy mode' by the end of the vanilla game, more or less... and there are so many things to help with levelling now; festivals a lot of the time, scrolls as rewards for levelling or even just logging in...

The lack of difficulty is actually hurting learning, not helping it, since you can completely ignore mechanics (and the setup where ZOS make missions to complete dungeons for the 1213412488428284 time encourages speedruns ignoring mechanics, so many don´t even get to learn) and still complete. Then people try vMA and go "WTF happened".

Speaking of which, vMA is probably the only place on my main where I need to use block or interrupt in solo content. That is a bit sad :'(

Ah, now we get to the bit that I agree with. I am all for more challenging content being added for those who want it. Problem is, I expect that the metrics show that that group isn't large enough to see a ROI. Just guessing but that's what my gut tells me.

I still disagree that learning needs to make peoples' toes curl. In fact, as I said, go too far and folks will bail for a game that doesn't. That is proven. This is the evolution.

We're going in circles here and I get cranky when that happens. I think that it would be a good idea to add more challenging content. I even think a "toggle" for Overland would be okay but these folk who are braying for Overland to be changed to suit their desires vis a vis difficulty?

Nope. Because that WILL screw this game up and cost them a lot of players. Not everyone is here to be challenged. You seem to want to blow past that fact.

Now, it's time for me to go pick daisies.

there isnt one game that you dont have to learn something in order to get over some hurdle in the game. every single game has one so that point makes no sense to me. toggling over world could work fairly well an area exclusive to endgame players would be perfectly fine have to be cp x to enter kindve like a proving ground of sorts. but at some point casuals do have to learn like the veterans you cannot always tell them that they can have what they want cause the second you lose veterans you lose alot of players so much more than even casuals. you cant gimp the game for end game players just because others dont want to put out the effort. there are so many other games that would rather appease their vets than help the casuals that are doing better than some that do.

DuskMarine wrote: »

mmos have and always will be a hardcore gamer world. casual gaming falls on games like call of duty, fortnite, pokemon etc but never an mmo has been a casual gaming make up its always been hardcore.

DuskMarine wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

They learn via grouping with guildies or friends. They learn by doing delves or dungeons and working up the line of difficulty. They learn by reading how others have accomplished "x" and then going out and giving it a go. They learn by marching up to glowing portals and poking them (LOL, that would be me).

Yeah but that´s the point: once you´ve learned, the content has long since been too easy for it to matter much. I don´t even do the healing meachanics on the engine guardian on vet since it´s just.. meh.

Overland content is what, 80-90%+ of the game? And the DLCs are mostly overland content. Still, your character´s power increases to 'easy mode' by the end of the vanilla game, more or less... and there are so many things to help with levelling now; festivals a lot of the time, scrolls as rewards for levelling or even just logging in...

The lack of difficulty is actually hurting learning, not helping it, since you can completely ignore mechanics (and the setup where ZOS make missions to complete dungeons for the 1213412488428284 time encourages speedruns ignoring mechanics, so many don´t even get to learn) and still complete. Then people try vMA and go "WTF happened".

Speaking of which, vMA is probably the only place on my main where I need to use block or interrupt in solo content. That is a bit sad :'(

Ah, now we get to the bit that I agree with. I am all for more challenging content being added for those who want it. Problem is, I expect that the metrics show that that group isn't large enough to see a ROI. Just guessing but that's what my gut tells me.

I still disagree that learning needs to make peoples' toes curl. In fact, as I said, go too far and folks will bail for a game that doesn't. That is proven. This is the evolution.

We're going in circles here and I get cranky when that happens. I think that it would be a good idea to add more challenging content. I even think a "toggle" for Overland would be okay but these folk who are braying for Overland to be changed to suit their desires vis a vis difficulty?

Nope. Because that WILL screw this game up and cost them a lot of players. Not everyone is here to be challenged. You seem to want to blow past that fact.

Now, it's time for me to go pick daisies.

there isnt one game that you dont have to learn something in order to get over some hurdle in the game. every single game has one so that point makes no sense to me. toggling over world could work fairly well an area exclusive to endgame players would be perfectly fine have to be cp x to enter kindve like a proving ground of sorts. but at some point casuals do have to learn like the veterans you cannot always tell them that they can have what they want cause the second you lose veterans you lose alot of players so much more than even casuals. you cant gimp the game for end game players just because others dont want to put out the effort. there are so many other games that would rather appease their vets than help the casuals that are doing better than some that do.

Gah! My daisies are wilting!

Of course, if they are of a mind to indulge in "end-game" activities, they have to learn, I've already covered this in an earlier post so not going to type it all out again.

No one is gimping the game. The game is as ZoS has offered it. They chose this direction (One Tamriel) when they figured out that their original approach wasn't working. Casuals, at least so far as I've seen, aren't the ones asking for a major change to ZoS's project. They're merrily trotting about Overland doing their thing. IF they decide to move into "end-game" stuff, then it's on them to learn how. I've covered ways that can be done without borking Overland.

Maybe a little less "you need to be challenged on the way up to play with us" and a little more "Hey, new guy, happy to teach you the ropes" would help. Plus more content for "end-game", I think that'd be a great idea.

the bad part about end game content is theyd have to make it harder thats the whole point of end game. and right now were lacking horridly in that department.

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Well, look at it this way, maybe.You've had "your day" coming up through the ranks and have outgrown the area(s).

One Tamriel changed that. Thank the gods, the system where you "outlevelled" the zone and literally got 0 XP for kills, with quests being greyed out because "sorry, not your level"... that was a huge mess. I don´t even know how many here were around then, or remember it... but it was an absolute mess. Quests were at a static level interval, so in order to play 'medium difficulty' you had to do things in a specific order, and not do too many sidequests or too little levelling

I agree there is no reason to just raise the difficulty for everyone. Just the people who want it.

exiars10 wrote: »

How many times NO NO NO NO NO?

Even on forum where are mostly hard core players, No is winning.
Even Alcast on his yesterday stream talked about how new players have various difficulties. Anybody with common sense see it. Except forum elitists, the so called "the hard core gamers".

Why the f... you think if for you veteran HM trials = end game = for everybody else? On reddit Fashion Scrolls Online is end game.

I wonder how many elitists hard core gamers who post in this thread have Flawless Conqueror titles, and No Death and Speed Run HM veteran trials achievements?

If you are bored, you are free to play hard core MMO but they bombed hard, didn't it? Nobody is going to miss you.

Game has many problems and glaring issues, and yet you constantly are trying to steer discussion into completely irrelevant thing for 90+% game population.

EDIT
Let we all agree with Yes camp for a moment and imagine every zone has Craglorn difficulty.

Public Dungeons raised to level of Group Delves with 800k health bosses.
Delves with 400k health bosses.
Mob has 50+ health.
Boosted Dolmens.
Zone Bosses boosted to DLC levels.

How long before game would died?

DuskMarine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Zacknafein77 wrote: »

Yes

But i would like to see one option server where everything is difficult and you have to gather a group for questing, i will love that, in mmo where you do eveything alone is a bit strange for me, that is the 2 reasons i dont like questing in this game, its boring and to easy. I understand ppl like do stuff in fast pace or farming materials as fast as possible, but its annoying whenl you enter in one delve and see one guy skiping all the mods running to the boss and kill it in 2 seconds.

We had this in a zone where solo was essentially not possible, well, some of us could solo the large groups of trash mobs. It died and it is now all Soloable except the trials. It is called Craglorn.

the vets gotta have somewhere to keep them occupied cant always provide for casuals

It was vet content, designed exclusively for vets as group content and had more challenge than anything open world. My point that seems to be missed by everyone who quotes it, it was nerfed. It became unused.

However, we vets still have somewhere to keep us occupied and challenged.

Plenty in fact. dungeons, vet dungeons, vet HM dungeons, vMA, vet trials and vet HM trials. I left out the normal dungeon and normal trials, but technically they are there as well..

craglorn wasnt ever unsused quite the contrary to a huge fan base of farmers craglorn was one of the best zones in the game(outside of dlcs at the time as they were the only ones that had 160 mats) but what made craglorn so special was because it was harder than hell. i had a whole guild that before they turned crag into a marshmellow were already soloing everything because we farmed it on a daily basis. and there were many many many more like us as craglorn was quite packed contrary to popular belief. it was the best farming spot because it was a high level access only basically spot. it stopped bots even with how hard the mobs could hit them. now craglorn is just riddled with noobs bots and erpers. an as far as you saying vets have plenty to keep us occupied no we actually dont. not when youve beaten everything 100s if not thousands of times we need some more difficulty stuff added to the game for veterans.

AlnilamE wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

When a zone main quest boss dies in three shots... something is broken...

when it dies in one something is definitly wrong

You can one shot a main quest mob? Man, I'd *love* to see that. I might learn something!

yea if you throw down everthing ultimate included in rapid succesion the game lags and the boss just drops like a bomb hit it from full to dead.

Ah, well, that's not generally how someone would go about it, yes?

Dang, I thought there was some other knowledge that I missed (which wouldn't surprise me).

nah just game being well the game.

Well then it's not exactly on to claim it for an example of how easy-mode Overland is if you have to Ulti-Unload which isn't even a one-shot.

I know that Overland does get easier as we get "older" (characters) but there's a whole variety of players who aren't CP yet or are brand new and to change Overland to suit those who have been around a few times will just alienate them. Toggle or instance or something along those lines seems to be the rational solution. Whether ZoS is willing to do that is another thing though.

overland you dont wanna get me started..............when i can litterally one shot every single mob in the game that isnt a boss without the game doing its crap.

Well, look at it this way, maybe.You've had "your day" coming up through the ranks and have outgrown the area(s). That's why I think it's a bad idea to change Overland for everybody. Fine line between challenging and driving folks off and face it, today's MMOer is far more likely to be a casual than hardcore.

Maybe a better solution would be to have an update or two focus SOLELY on more "über content" so that the folks who enjoy a challenge wouldn't even need to bother with Overland?

i started on ps4 first got the hang of the game then i switched to pc.......yea level 1 i was rolling through stuff like it didnt even matter. i was even rolling through craglorn with a cp 10 toon. normal trials at cp40. so it comes down to how good are you at the game not the games overall difficulty. to more skilled people this games a complete push over. sitting at 750 now im just like what is taking zos so long to give us something hard to do and grind.

But again, YOU are you. We aren't all that, err, capable. They, ZoS, started out pretty much like some folk still seem to want and it didn't work out very well, hence One Tamriel.

I guess and I mean no offense here, that you need to accept what MMOs have evolved to. They are casual gaming now. They really aren't meant to be overly challenging. They are, as they are now, what sells and that is what any company is going to invest in. I get that is awful for those who preferred the "old ways" but those days seem to be gone.

It's kind of interesting that you seem to think One Tamriel made the game easier. I think in a sense, it made the game harder.

Because before One Tamriel, if you were into questing and fully completing the zones, you would have outleveled the mobs by the 3rd zone in your alliance to the point where you were not getting any XP anymore and they were super easy. At that point you only got XP from turning in quests and discovering areas, and you still outleveled the mobs all the way to the Tower of Lies in Coldharbour, where the 5-level differential became static (all vets being considered "level 50" for XP purposes.

What One Tamriel did was remove that barrier and let you do things at your own pace (which is great). But it did not make the game "easier" in that it removed the option of outleveling content that was too hard.