Every Class Resource Economy (spent and incoming, averages, etc) . . .very interesting. . .

Wing · June 2018

**DISCLAIMER**
this does not take into account armor or sets or whatever, its the base classes as anyone can wear or do anything, its also using the base skill and only taking into account morphs in the after thought if they relate to effecting the resource economy of classes. also all data was collected from https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Elder+Scrolls+Online+Wiki the elder scrolls online wiki as it is the most up to date and accurate source for all eso related information.
**/DISCLAIMER**

this took longer then expected, so lets get into it. going in no order. also this is averages, some classes have one or multiple low costing skills that can skew the average across the class. also note I did this out of curiosity and have no agenda behind this information, draw your own conclusions

Templar
total cost of skill = 56,143
average cost of skills = 3,742

incoming:
-restoring spirit = reduces all costs (magicka, stamina, ultimate) by 4%
-repentance = hard to calculate but its 2,702 stamina per corpse
-channeled focus = up to 6,240 magicka over 26 seconds (equal to having 480 magicka regen)

Dragonknight
total cost of skill = 50,763
average cost of skills = 3,384

incoming:
-helping hands = average cost = trading 3,942 magicka for 990 stamina
-battle roar = calculating the ult regen formula and battle roars effect = 138 magicka, stamina, and health per sec (this is equal to 278 regen for every stat) this expects constant ult uptime off cooldown and does not take into account sources of heroism or ult generation.

Sorcerer
total cost of skill = 55,735
average cost of skills = 3,715

incoming:
-unholy knowledge = 5% reduced cost on all magicka and stamina abilities
-daedric protection = +20% stamina and health recovery (with a daedric summoning skill slotted)
-capacitor = +10% magicka recovery
-dark exchange = 3,240 magicka for 4,696 stamina and 8,059 health, OR 2,161 stamina for 4,696 magicka and 8,059 health

Nightblade
total cost of skills = 42,598
average cost of skill = 2,863

incoming:
-refreshing shadows = +15% stamina, magicka, and health regen
-executioner = when an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damage by an Assassination abilities restore 1,876 magicka or stamina (whichever maximum is higher)
-siphoning strikes = (LONG skill description) both morphs below:
-1- costs 878 stamina and restores 106 stam and 1,452 health per light / heavy attack for 20 seconds and an additional 4,270 stamina when the effect ends
-2- costs 1081 magicka and resotres 106 magicka and 1452 health per light / heavy attack for 20 seconds and an additional 4,270 magicka when the effect ends

Warden
total cost of skills = 45,640
average cost of skill = 3,042

incoming:
-netch = +167 magicka or stamina a sec (equal to 335 regen)
-flourish = +12% stamina and magicka regen (while a natures gift skill is slotted)
-natures gift =+250 magicka or stamina (lowest resource pool) whenever you heal with a natures balance skill, average cost of natures balance skill = 3,348 (though living vines might make this far more effective)
-crystalized shield = 578 to 1,734 magicka returned

WHEW that took a long time to type out too.

personal thoughts after looking at every class and skill and calculating all of this? nightblade sustain seems to have power crept to ridiculous levels. templar is hit or miss because allot of the skills are channels and that makes them far more efficient then the numbers show. DK's are in a bad spot, battle roar is outdone by a netch and helping hands is laughable when compared to actual resource restore skills like dark deal or siphoning strikes, add to that the class is usually in heavy armor, yeah. but yeah nightblades seem a little ridiculous.

anyway, lemme know your thoughts.

EIDT: so even though its old i decided to link jules collection of major and minor buffs per class (excluding warden as its old) this is not up to date, but i don't think much has changed.

from this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265114/why-nbs-are-op-in-1-picture/p1

im just listing base numbers and tools, if people think somethings OP or im hating that's on them, but why might they think that?

Leandor · June 2018

Ahh, a nerf nightblade post... you hid that fairly well, except for the little blunder at the end...

Wing · June 2018

Leandor wrote: »

Ahh, a nerf nightblade post... you hid that fairly well, except for the little blunder at the end...

*shhhhhhh*

lol, but once I got through the first 3 I figured they were all going to end up in the ~50k ranges and was like "oh it seems someone at ZOS already averaged this all out" then I did NB and warden and was like ". . .oh nvm"

Rygonix · June 2018

Not surprised at the templar report. Truely.

Wing · June 2018

Rygonix wrote: »

Not surprised at the templar report. Truely.

I was surprised at them being the worst, but some of those heals and channels have a really big cost, and because of all the channels like I said it does not feel as bad as it looks, plus they can get away with light armor, etc.

_Ahala_ · June 2018

So... what your saying is nerf magden

Wing · June 2018

_Ahala_ wrote: »

So... what your saying is nerf magden

lol, I actually find both versions of warden to be quite fun personally. even if a dislike some of the animal animations.

ak_pvp · June 2018

No offense, whist cool, it doesn't really say anything. Doesn't count the used skills, or the regen towards it

_Ahala_ · June 2018

Wing wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

So... what your saying is nerf magden

lol, I actually find both versions of warden to be quite fun personally. even if a dislike some of the animal animations.

I know, I was just joking considering how bad magden performs in pvp despite its low costs

Lieblingsjunge · June 2018

It's probably the Hasty Prayer / Ritual dragging the Templar-average up a bit... But it's not of any significance that would "fix" templar numbers.
Templar is - by far, the class with the least passives to sustain + high cost of skills. (+ another million issues but thats for another thread).

Especially in PvP, our "house" doesn't really matter anymore, as the game shifted, so the rune-rec doesn't work that well.
And in PvE - how the [snip] do you fit that on your bar, with all the other skills you need? (No, I'm not looking at you, jesusbeam, I could probably do more dps keeping my dots up and ignoring you.)

-sigh-. The cost red. passive for templar is already worse than most, if not all other classes.

Ankael07 · June 2018

All this means nothing as long as we dont know which skills are used how many times in a battle.

Latin · June 2018

With all due respect, this doesn't say anything about the resource economy of the classes, it is merely the sum of costs of independent skills and an outline of some passive effects.

To draw a meaningful inference from this, you would need to incorporate skill coefficients relative to skill costs, consider and/or quantify additional skill effects and design and simulate a robust rotation for all the classes, which would then allow you to make a comparative analysis on their relative power.

Leandor · June 2018

Btw, adding all class skill's costs together and dividing it by 15 doesn't say anything.

It does not in the least reflect the cost of that class' typical rotation, notwithstanding that to define a "typical rotation" is almost impossible with the amount of different playstyles.

Your evaluation also doesn't consider stamina builds at all. It doesn't consider cost changes from morphs, of which there are some. It doesn't consider efficiency, e.g. health recovered for each resource spend or damage output per resource spend.

All in all it's a random numbergame with the only possible conclusion of "nightblade op" and zero practical use.

Wing · June 2018

to all the people saying this means nothing, I can only assume some kind of bias?

every class can use every armor, ever guild skill, every weapon, be any race, etc. the only mechanical difference being obviously, class.

now im not picking on nightblade, I collected this data for a completely different reason and figured I would post the basics here.

but to compare the base classes before anything and say hey this class has 1/4 less overall resource cost then the majority and an extra 15% regen of all resources without doing anything. . .c'mon

people said DK had to high of spell costs, so I was curious to also find out it was LESS resource intensive then both templar and sorc (there actually a bit closer if you factor in the straight % cost reduction passives, I assume that's the point) however sorc actually has an amazing class skill that lets it leap far and away ahead of both. however templar is a bit more efficient because of its reliance on channels, and DK is supposed to be even more so with its use of DoT's.

if I were to go into further breakdowns (and I might have to) of perhaps things like priority used skills, mobility, healing, bonus stats, etc. I can, but if your looking for that to perhaps swing things away from the nightblade I promise you (as I spent HOURS looking over every classes skills and passives) that it will only get worse.

like I said I didn't go into this looking to beat on nightblade, and if that's the conclusion people are getting from this info then perhaps there is something to that.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2018

Great write up by that wiki is not the most up to date. Uesp.net is. Use this site- http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Skills#Class

Just a cursory read through leads me to believe this is true too, repentance is 2970 stamina per corpse at rank 4, you have the wrong number. At any rank. Obsidian Shields and morphs also cost 4050 magic, not 3942.

Wing · June 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Great write up by that wiki is not the most up to date. Uesp.net is. Use this site- http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Skills#Class

Just a cursory read through leads me to believe this is true too, repentance is 2970 stamina per corpse at rank 4, you have the wrong number. At any rank. Obsidian Shields and morphs also cost 4050 magic, not 3942.

ugh, will have to go through it all again later, glad to know the difference is very minimal though, thanks very much for the heads up.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
EIDT: errrr wait, uesp does not have the updated DK passives, or the new strife cost, eso wiki is up to date.

Own · June 2018

Oh that's why I like stamblade. It feels unique because of the amount of stam skills. They should change more to stam for the other classes. And buff 2h

lionofjudah7 · June 2018

Wing wrote: »

**DISCLAIMER**
this does not take into account armor or sets or whatever, its the base classes as anyone can wear or do anything, its also using the base skill and only taking into account morphs in the after thought if they relate to effecting the resource economy of classes. also all data was collected from https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Elder+Scrolls+Online+Wiki the elder scrolls online wiki as it is the most up to date and accurate source for all eso related information.
**/DISCLAIMER**

this took longer then expected, so lets get into it. going in no order. also this is averages, some classes have one or multiple low costing skills that can skew the average across the class. also note I did this out of curiosity and have no agenda behind this information, draw your own conclusions
Templar
total cost of skill = 56,143
average cost of skills = 3,742

incoming:
-restoring spirit = reduces all costs (magicka, stamina, ultimate) by 4%
-repentance = hard to calculate but its 2,702 stamina per corpse
-channeled focus = up to 6,240 magicka over 26 seconds (equal to having 480 magicka regen)
Dragonknight
total cost of skill = 50,763
average cost of skills = 3,384

incoming:
-helping hands = average cost = trading 3,942 magicka for 990 stamina
-battle roar = calculating the ult regen formula and battle roars effect = 138 magicka, stamina, and health per sec (this is equal to 278 regen for every stat) this expects constant ult uptime off cooldown and does not take into account sources of heroism or ult generation.
Sorcerer
total cost of skill = 55,735
average cost of skills = 3,715

incoming:
-unholy knowledge = 5% reduced cost on all magicka and stamina abilities
-daedric protection = +20% stamina and health recovery (with a daedric summoning skill slotted)
-capacitor = +10% magicka recovery
-dark exchange = 3,240 magicka for 4,696 stamina and 8,059 health, OR 2,161 stamina for 4,696 magicka and 8,059 health
Nightblade
total cost of skills = 42,598
average cost of skill = 2,863

incoming:
-refreshing shadows = +15% stamina, magicka, and health regen
-executioner = when an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damage by an Assassination abilities restore 1,876 magicka or stamina (whichever maximum is higher)
-siphoning strikes = (LONG skill description) both morphs below:
-1- costs 878 stamina and restores 106 stam and 1,452 health per light / heavy attack for 20 seconds and an additional 4,270 stamina when the effect ends
-2- costs 1081 magicka and resotres 106 magicka and 1452 health per light / heavy attack for 20 seconds and an additional 4,270 magicka when the effect ends
Warden
total cost of skills = 45,640
average cost of skill = 3,042

incoming:
-netch = +167 magicka or stamina a sec (equal to 335 regen)
-flourish = +12% stamina and magicka regen (while a natures gift skill is slotted)
-natures gift =+250 magicka or stamina (lowest resource pool) whenever you heal with a natures balance skill, average cost of natures balance skill = 3,348 (though living vines might make this far more effective)
-crystalized shield = 578 to 1,734 magicka returned

WHEW that took a long time to type out too.

personal thoughts after looking at every class and skill and calculating all of this? nightblade sustain seems to have power crept to ridiculous levels. templar is hit or miss because allot of the skills are channels and that makes them far more efficient then the numbers show. DK's are in a bad spot, battle roar is outdone by a netch and helping hands is laughable when compared to actual resource restore skills like dark deal or siphoning strikes, add to that the class is usually in heavy armor, yeah. but yeah nightblades seem a little ridiculous.

anyway, lemme know your thoughts.

EIDT: so even though its old i decided to link jules collection of major and minor buffs per class (excluding warden as its old) this is not up to date, but i don't think much has changed.

from this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265114/why-nbs-are-op-in-1-picture/p1

im just listing base numbers and tools, if people think somethings OP or im hating that's on them, but why might they think that?

Ummmm who cares ? I dont

Drdeath20 · June 2018

The list of buffs is outdated. Templars no longer have half the major buffs

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2018

Wing wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Great write up by that wiki is not the most up to date. Uesp.net is. Use this site- http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Skills#Class

Just a cursory read through leads me to believe this is true too, repentance is 2970 stamina per corpse at rank 4, you have the wrong number. At any rank. Obsidian Shields and morphs also cost 4050 magic, not 3942.

ugh, will have to go through it all again later, glad to know the difference is very minimal though, thanks very much for the heads up.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
EIDT: errrr wait, uesp does not have the updated DK passives, or the new strife cost, eso wiki is up to date.

Uesp.net is large site. Takes time to filter in to some parts. Try this area, http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoSkills

RedRook · June 2018

Wow. No wonder my sustain is so much more comfortable on NB than anything else. lol

I never have any trouble on sorc either, but my magsorc is Altmer, so all that extra regen.

Interesting.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2018

RedRook wrote: »

Wow. No wonder my sustain is so much more comfortable on NB than anything else. lol

I never have any trouble on sorc either, but my magsorc is Altmer, so all that extra regen.

Interesting.

"All that extra Regen" is around 70 Regen, at best. Hardly enough to make up for the high cost.

f047ys3v3n · June 2018

Cost is a big reason why mtemplars suck, and I do think they suck. The only one I ever use is a healer and it has very few templar skills on the bar. Even their ultimate is crazy expensive. Breath is like a bad joke. Here is your massively overpriced overheal with no sheild, no clense, nothing attached.

Wing · June 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

RedRook wrote: »

Wow. No wonder my sustain is so much more comfortable on NB than anything else. lol

I never have any trouble on sorc either, but my magsorc is Altmer, so all that extra regen.

Interesting.

"All that extra Regen" is around 70 Regen, at best. Hardly enough to make up for the high cost.

mmmmm 9% is more then 70, most magicka is anywhere from 1,500 to 2k regen (if not more) so that's ~140-190, and while not huge is a set bonus. every little bit matters.

Wing · June 2018

Own wrote: »

Oh that's why I like stamblade. It feels unique because of the amount of stam skills. They should change more to stam for the other classes. And buff 2h

plus because of the overall cheap cost stamblade is able to use its utility magicka skills more then other classes, where is on stam DK you cast igneous like 2-3 times and out of magicka.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2018

Wing wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

RedRook wrote: »

Wow. No wonder my sustain is so much more comfortable on NB than anything else. lol

I never have any trouble on sorc either, but my magsorc is Altmer, so all that extra regen.

Interesting.

"All that extra Regen" is around 70 Regen, at best. Hardly enough to make up for the high cost.

mmmmm 9% is more then 70, most magicka is anywhere from 1,500 to 2k regen (if not more) so that's ~140-190, and while not huge is a set bonus. every little bit matters.

It is really not, not even close. Do you understand how percentage amps work in this game? Let me show you.

percent amps, like the 20% from pots and the 9% from being a high elf do not stack like that. they are additive, not multiplicative.

my warden healer is a nord, he runs 2k regen but that is after all percent amps. base would be 514(base)+124(set)+124(set)+319(food)+300(atro with 4 6.5% divines)= 1381 then all other percent amps are calculated off that and then added to it. like Flourish, 12% adds 166, Recovery from light armor, 24% cause i have on 6 light adds 331, 14% from cp adds 193, bringing the total to 2071. 9% more would only be 124 more regen.

so what happens is that the 1381 is the BASE regen and then all the other percent amps are ADDED up.
like this

Sub in serpant for Stam in the above calulation.

so the it would look like this, (514+124+124+319+300)* (36%+14%)= 690.5 and that would be ADDED to 1381, which then would be 2071 , with the 9% from a high elf, it would look like this, (514+124+124+319+300)* (45%+14%) = 814.79 , which then would be 2195, which is just a 6% increase in regen from 2071. come on people this is not hard math. it only gets worse the more percent regen you add.

with pots it would be (514+124+124+319+300)* (65%+14%) = 1091 and added to 1381 is 2472, only a 12% increase in regen. do you see what i mean yet?

To get 190 Regen out of the 9% passive of the high elfs, you would need to have a base Regen of 2111. There is simply no way to get this high of Regen while being a DPS or in PvP, short of a lich proc.

cazlonb16_ESO · June 2018

While there may be some issues with the methodology and calculations, the results still seem fairly accurate to me. Templars ( both ) are the worst by a considerable margin, DKs still pretty bad, for the other classes sustain isn't much of an issue with Nbs playing almost laughably easy in that regard.