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Attaining Good DPS: The Importance of Practice and Perseverance
Aurielle
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Just about every week, it seems, a new thread blasting weaving and/or animation cancelling crops up in the forums. The same old lies and misunderstandings are expressed each time (often by people who claim to have been kicked from groups for doing poor DPS), and the truth is often ignored: good DPS is dependent upon so much more than weaving or animation cancelling alone.
Want to know how low my DPS was when I tested it for the first time after Homestead's release? It was about 12-13k with a "good" parse, and 10-11k with a bad parse. I was surprised and embarrassed, as I was already soloing normal dungeons by that point and just assumed that my damage would be much higher than it was. It would have been very easy to blame the game for my low DPS, but since I knew it was possible to increase my damage further, I turned to the forums for help. I watched YouTube guides, I researched builds, I ground out gear, I learned how to beat VMA, and most importantly, I practiced my rotation. Over and over and over again. I quickly hit 15k, then 20k. A big milestone was hitting 25k. I hovered around 27k for a long time, then turned to the forums for help again, learned a whole new rotation, and finally cracked 30k. Today, for the first time, I hit 35k on a 3m health dummy with no cheese (I was previously only able to do that with the Lover, not Apprentice). I'm looking forward to eventually cracking 40k once I try out some new builds in Summerset.
The point I'm trying to make here is this: don't give up, keep practicing, and don't place blame where it's not warranted. If you're struggling with your DPS, show us your build. Tell us your rotation. Record a video of you practicing on a target dummy. Believe it or not, many of us want to help you to improve and attain your in-game goals. If I could go from a paltry 10k to 35k, so can you. And before the word "disability" is bandied about, I suffer from severe Raynaud's disease, which means that my hands are frequently cold and painful (sometimes even numb) when I play.
Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
Want to know how low my DPS was when I tested it for the first time after Homestead's release? It was about 12-13k with a "good" parse, and 10-11k with a bad parse. I was surprised and embarrassed, as I was already soloing normal dungeons by that point and just assumed that my damage would be much higher than it was. It would have been very easy to blame the game for my low DPS, but since I knew it was possible to increase my damage further, I turned to the forums for help. I watched YouTube guides, I researched builds, I ground out gear, I learned how to beat VMA, and most importantly, I practiced my rotation. Over and over and over again. I quickly hit 15k, then 20k. A big milestone was hitting 25k. I hovered around 27k for a long time, then turned to the forums for help again, learned a whole new rotation, and finally cracked 30k. Today, for the first time, I hit 35k on a 3m health dummy with no cheese (I was previously only able to do that with the Lover, not Apprentice). I'm looking forward to eventually cracking 40k once I try out some new builds in Summerset.
The point I'm trying to make here is this: don't give up, keep practicing, and don't place blame where it's not warranted. If you're struggling with your DPS, show us your build. Tell us your rotation. Record a video of you practicing on a target dummy. Believe it or not, many of us want to help you to improve and attain your in-game goals. If I could go from a paltry 10k to 35k, so can you. And before the word "disability" is bandied about, I suffer from severe Raynaud's disease, which means that my hands are frequently cold and painful (sometimes even numb) when I play.
Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
17
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Caroloces✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for the post. As a casual user, I haven't even checked to see what my DPS is for any of my chars. What is the best way for a beginner to start checking this?1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for the post. As a casual user, I haven't even checked to see what my DPS is for any of my chars. What is the best way for a beginner to start checking this?
No problem! Hopefully you will find it helpful/encouraging.
As for checking DPS, are you on PC or console? Also, are you in a guild?
If you're on PC, you can use Combat Metrics (http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1360-CombatMetrics.html) to analyse not only your DPS, but a whole lot of other useful info while in dungeons or while attacking a static target dummy. If you're on console, you can just use a target dummy (doesn't give you all the extra info that Combat Metrics would give you, but it does tell you your DPS). A lot of guild leaders and officers have target dummies in their homes (which you can visit via your guild roster). You can also purchase/craft target dummies for your own home via the store or via crafting writs, or acquire a low health target dummy (The Precursor) through Clockwork City.
The Precursor is actually really good for people who are new to DPS testing, as you have to completely kill the dummy to see an accurate parse. If you only do 10k DPS, it takes a LONG time to kill a 3m health dummy or a 6m health dummy...
1 -
gnarlyvandal✭✭✭Great post, I hope the complainers take the time to read it lol
I had the same experience with my own dps, although I stopped trying to improve once I hit 25k without any ult uptime, reckon that should be good enough xD
I do like the skins from vet dungeons tho, so might have to put some more effort in when I have the time :’)0 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.2 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
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What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Yes but no death and speed run achievements (the word you didn't bold...) is way easier with high dps.1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well done. Nice to see Mechanical still having some use.
OP, since you're running a pet build, you'll benefit more from Max Magicka. You might try a parse with the Mage mundus instead of Apprentice.
Pet Damage is solely based on max Mag, and with the change to light and heavy attacks becoming equally based on SD and Max Mag, it will basically be a straight tradeoff regarding LA/HA damage and skills, but your pet damage should go up.
You'll lose the +20% boost from the spell power pot, but only on the difference the Apprentice was giving you anyway (You'll 'lose' about 60 SD)Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭
I intentionally didn't bold as I expected this answer
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Yes but no death and speed run achievements (the word you didn't bold...) is way easier with high dps.
- for speed run and no death achievements you need proper team - all roles to know what to do and knowing dungeon mechanics. Your high DPS is useless if just one group member don't do his/her job properly - for example it won't help if one member gets one shoted because didn't roll dodge when it should. There goes your no death achievement.
I know there are few bosses who are DPS check/race but otherwise, no.
Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
BaneOfBattler✭✭✭As someone said above, you dont need 99k dps to complete veteran dungeons from dlc. Ok you need a bit more dps for some achievements, but thats it, achievements, doesnt really matter, the goal is to complete content, at least for me.
I'd aso like to express my opinion on how many threads about dps. Stop it. Dps's are not that important in the game, healers and tanks become critical roles and they are not discussing every 3 days about their tanking or healing in the forum. I find these posts a way to reassure them or measure their ego publicly here. Stop this its annoying.
Curious how other folk dont spam posts with "theres an open thread about this" while regarding dps.
A dead dps is no dps
A dps having agro is also a dead dps.
Hence dps are the least important role.
With that said im a guy that plays 8 characters and 3 of them are dps well over 30k on a dummy and more than 60k on a live vet trial boss. You wont see me in any dps measurement post.
Get this in your brain dps-guys: You are the last to be worried about in a group.Edited by BaneOfBattler on May 31, 2018 12:25PM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
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I intentionally didn't bold as I expected this answer
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Yes but no death and speed run achievements (the word you didn't bold...) is way easier with high dps. - for speed run and no death achievements you need proper team - all roles to know what to do and knowing dungeon mechanics. Your high DPS is useless if just one group member don't do his/her job properly - for example it won't help if one member gets one shoted because didn't roll dodge when it should. There goes your no death achievement.
I know there are few bosses who are DPS check/race but otherwise, no.
High DPS equals shorter fights. Shorter fights means less mechanics to deal with. Less mechanics to deal with equals less chance to make a mistake on one of them. It does make a difference. Yes, you can have a no death/speedrun with 20-30k. It will require to learn the mechanics perfectly though. With no room for mistakes. Bump the DPS up and you have a lot more wiggle room. And from my experience it's much easier to teach people how to DPS than perfect the mechanics.
And it's also a very funny misconception a lot of people have about 40k+ DPS players. People think that they are all dummy heroes. But it's actually far from truth. People who care to improve DPS usually care about mechanics as well. High DPS and mechanics are not exclusive.Edited by Royaji on May 31, 2018 12:43PM1 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sometime people are kicked for low DPS due to *** tanks though ...
I.mean how am I supposed to get high DPS on boss when the tank insists on running it around in big circles in stead of holding it down in one place ... Why is it always the DPS fault ?
I am a tank and I approve this message.
When tanks try to DPS rather than control the fight, the fight tends to be all over the place and it completely destroys the group DPS, and makes the healing ten times harder.
Though to be fair, sometimes the DPS does just suck too.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And there you go, practice is what makes perfect, the people that think that just by removing ac they will instantly become much better players are deluding themselves.
Any more excuses?1 -
Caroloces✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for the post. As a casual user, I haven't even checked to see what my DPS is for any of my chars. What is the best way for a beginner to start checking this?
No problem! Hopefully you will find it helpful/encouraging.
As for checking DPS, are you on PC or console? Also, are you in a guild?
If you're on PC, you can use Combat Metrics (http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1360-CombatMetrics.html) to analyse not only your DPS, but a whole lot of other useful info while in dungeons or while attacking a static target dummy. If you're on console, you can just use a target dummy (doesn't give you all the extra info that Combat Metrics would give you, but it does tell you your DPS). A lot of guild leaders and officers have target dummies in their homes (which you can visit via your guild roster). You can also purchase/craft target dummies for your own home via the store or via crafting writs, or acquire a low health target dummy (The Precursor) through Clockwork City.
The Precursor is actually really good for people who are new to DPS testing, as you have to completely kill the dummy to see an accurate parse. If you only do 10k DPS, it takes a LONG time to kill a 3m health dummy or a 6m health dummy...
Thanks, Aurielle. I'm on PC, and I'm in a number of guilds. I actually do have the add-on, Combat Metrics, but I haven't taken the time to learn how to use it properly. I'll look into acquiring the Precursor.0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
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Thanks, @Merlin13KAGL! I appreciate the tips.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Well done. Nice to see Mechanical still having some use.
OP, since you're running a pet build, you'll benefit more from Max Magicka. You might try a parse with the Mage mundus instead of Apprentice.
Pet Damage is solely based on max Mag, and with the change to light and heavy attacks becoming equally based on SD and Max Mag, it will basically be a straight tradeoff regarding LA/HA damage and skills, but your pet damage should go up.
You'll lose the +20% boost from the spell power pot, but only on the difference the Apprentice was giving you anyway (You'll 'lose' about 60 SD) I just tried several parses with Mage instead of Apprentice, and actually found that my DPS crept back down to 33-34k. I was only able to get it back up to 35k with Apprentice. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, given that pets do indeed scale off max magicka, but I'll play around with it some more. CP allocation or the rotation could be a factor.
Oh, I know it's possible to clear the more difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements without 40k DPS. If both damage dealers in the group are pulling 35-40k+ DPS, though, there's way more margin for error and everything just goes that much more smoothly. I personally think I would have a heart attack if attempting a vet Scalecaller Peak no-death run with someone who knows the mechanics really well, but only pulls 20k DPS. The RNG nature of that dungeon (on Zaan especially) means that you definitely want to kill things as quickly as you can. I'd be devastated if we we were nearing the execute phase without a single death, and then had a group wipe because myself or the other DD couldn't get the frost atronach add killed in time.
I intentionally didn't bold as I expected this answer
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Yes but no death and speed run achievements (the word you didn't bold...) is way easier with high dps. - for speed run and no death achievements you need proper team - all roles to know what to do and knowing dungeon mechanics. Your high DPS is useless if just one group member don't do his/her job properly - for example it won't help if one member gets one shoted because didn't roll dodge when it should. There goes your no death achievement.
I know there are few bosses who are DPS check/race but otherwise, no.
This thread is, in part, a counter to the endless, uninformed anti-animation cancelling/weaving threads. So many players wrongfully blame their poor DPS on animation cancelling, without realizing that getting good at DPS is a challenge that requires so much more than mastering weaving.BaneOfBattler wrote: »As someone said above, you dont need 99k dps to complete veteran dungeons from dlc. Ok you need a bit more dps for some achievements, but thats it, achievements, doesnt really matter, the goal is to complete content, at least for me.
I'd aso like to express my opinion on how many threads about dps. Stop it. Dps's are not that important in the game, healers and tanks become critical roles and they are not discussing every 3 days about their tanking or healing in the forum. I find these posts a way to reassure them or measure their ego publicly here. Stop this its annoying.
Curious how other folk dont spam posts with "theres an open thread about this" while regarding dps.
A dead dps is no dps
A dps having agro is also a dead dps.
Hence dps are the least important role.
With that said im a guy that plays 8 characters and 3 of them are dps well over 30k on a dummy and more than 60k on a live vet trial boss. You wont see me in any dps measurement post.
Get this in your brain dps-guys: You are the last to be worried about in a group.
Also, contrary to your claim, DPS is important for content completion. How's an uber meta trial tank who taunts and positions all the things going to deal with veteran CoA II HM when both damage dealers in the group are plinging away at Valkyn Skoria with random skills, wearing random gear, and pulling a whopping combined total of 12k DPS? Also, dedicated healers are often unnecessary in dungeons. 1 tank + 3 DDs is often the preferred group composition for speed runs. It depends on the dungeon, of course.
Don't get me wrong, good healers and good tanks are often very important to group success too, but here's the thing: healing and tanking both have a lower skill threshold. You don't have to spend hours practicing on a target dummy to become a good tank or a good healer. Someone's going to kick a mediocre damage dealer LONG before they kick a mediocre healer (note: I consider a mediocre healer to be someone who does a reasonably good job of keeping the group alive, but neglects to buff/debuff or contribute some damage when they're not healing). This is one reason why you see more threads about DPS and less threads about tanking/healing. Another reason why you see more threads about DPS is that people often don't want the responsibility that goes along with tanking/healing, so they make damage dealers. There are simply more damage dealers out there, so yes, DPS is going to be discussed more frequently...
Edited by Aurielle on May 31, 2018 3:47PM1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for the post. As a casual user, I haven't even checked to see what my DPS is for any of my chars. What is the best way for a beginner to start checking this?
No problem! Hopefully you will find it helpful/encouraging.
As for checking DPS, are you on PC or console? Also, are you in a guild?
If you're on PC, you can use Combat Metrics (http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1360-CombatMetrics.html) to analyse not only your DPS, but a whole lot of other useful info while in dungeons or while attacking a static target dummy. If you're on console, you can just use a target dummy (doesn't give you all the extra info that Combat Metrics would give you, but it does tell you your DPS). A lot of guild leaders and officers have target dummies in their homes (which you can visit via your guild roster). You can also purchase/craft target dummies for your own home via the store or via crafting writs, or acquire a low health target dummy (The Precursor) through Clockwork City.
The Precursor is actually really good for people who are new to DPS testing, as you have to completely kill the dummy to see an accurate parse. If you only do 10k DPS, it takes a LONG time to kill a 3m health dummy or a 6m health dummy...
Thanks, Aurielle. I'm on PC, and I'm in a number of guilds. I actually do have the add-on, Combat Metrics, but I haven't taken the time to learn how to use it properly. I'll look into acquiring the Precursor.
No problem, @Caroloces! Here's a good guide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxU159geFmY
Also, when you get to the point where you want to practice on a 3m/6m target dummy, you can use the Precursor to build up ultimate for your damage parses. 0 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭
No Death Run achievement in many dungeons has nothing with DPS and no matter how high DPS you have if just one member makes mistake there goes your death run because you can't avoid mechanics no matter how much high DPS you have.
I intentionally didn't bold as I expected this answer
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Yes but no death and speed run achievements (the word you didn't bold...) is way easier with high dps. - for speed run and no death achievements you need proper team - all roles to know what to do and knowing dungeon mechanics. Your high DPS is useless if just one group member don't do his/her job properly - for example it won't help if one member gets one shoted because didn't roll dodge when it should. There goes your no death achievement.
I know there are few bosses who are DPS check/race but otherwise, no.
High DPS equals shorter fights. Shorter fights means less mechanics to deal with. Less mechanics to deal with equals less chance to make a mistake on one of them. It does make a difference. Yes, you can have a no death/speedrun with 20-30k. It will require to learn the mechanics perfectly though. With no room for mistakes. Bump the DPS up and you have a lot more wiggle room. And from my experience it's much easier to teach people how to DPS than perfect the mechanics.
And it's also a very funny misconception a lot of people have about 40k+ DPS players. People think that they are all dummy heroes. But it's actually far from truth. People who care to improve DPS usually care about mechanics as well. High DPS and mechanics are not exclusive.
You can have 100k+ DPS, and it doesn't matter at Mezeluth in CoH II. I played in high DPS groups (60k+) and always somebody rolls dogde wrongly, not to type that I even had wipes with those same groups. They burn whole dungeon super fast and than get wiped at her.
Or how about Whisperer in Spindleclutch I? Another PUG bain and impossible to get No Death Run achivement.
And so on...Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No Death Run achievement in many dungeons has nothing with DPS and no matter how high DPS you have if just one member makes mistake there goes your death run because you can't avoid mechanics no matter how much high DPS you have.
I intentionally didn't bold as I expected this answer
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Yes but no death and speed run achievements (the word you didn't bold...) is way easier with high dps. - for speed run and no death achievements you need proper team - all roles to know what to do and knowing dungeon mechanics. Your high DPS is useless if just one group member don't do his/her job properly - for example it won't help if one member gets one shoted because didn't roll dodge when it should. There goes your no death achievement.
I know there are few bosses who are DPS check/race but otherwise, no.
High DPS equals shorter fights. Shorter fights means less mechanics to deal with. Less mechanics to deal with equals less chance to make a mistake on one of them. It does make a difference. Yes, you can have a no death/speedrun with 20-30k. It will require to learn the mechanics perfectly though. With no room for mistakes. Bump the DPS up and you have a lot more wiggle room. And from my experience it's much easier to teach people how to DPS than perfect the mechanics.
And it's also a very funny misconception a lot of people have about 40k+ DPS players. People think that they are all dummy heroes. But it's actually far from truth. People who care to improve DPS usually care about mechanics as well. High DPS and mechanics are not exclusive.
You can have 100k+ DPS, and it doesn't matter at Mezeluth in CoH II. I played in high DPS groups (60k+) and always somebody rolls dogde wrongly, not to type that I even had wipes with those same groups. They burn whole dungeon super fast and than get wiped at her.
Or how about Whisperer in Spindleclutch I? Another PUG bain and impossible to get No Death Run achivement.
And so on...
From all the possible examples you've probably chosen the worst one. That boss in CoH II can be killed before the first pull. Yep, just straight up DPS allows you to bypass his mechanics completely.
And 60k+ is not really high end. It's solid, sure but translates to healer doing 10k and two DDs with 25k? Nothing to write home about.
I honestly don't even remember what's the difficult part in Spindle. Her heavy attack doesn't one shot if you have igneous on you. Maybe Rilis from BC I would've been a better example.
But I'll give you that, despite those bad examples there are fights where more DPS can be detrimental. Last boss in Fang Lair, Velidreth if you over DPS her before grabbing the lanterns... But those are pretty rare. And once again, people who can do 40-50k single target DPS rarely have issues with mechanics.1 -
BaneOfBattler✭✭✭
No Death Run achievement in many dungeons has nothing with DPS and no matter how high DPS you have if just one member makes mistake there goes your death run because you can't avoid mechanics no matter how much high DPS you have.
I intentionally didn't bold as I expected this answer
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Yes but no death and speed run achievements (the word you didn't bold...) is way easier with high dps. - for speed run and no death achievements you need proper team - all roles to know what to do and knowing dungeon mechanics. Your high DPS is useless if just one group member don't do his/her job properly - for example it won't help if one member gets one shoted because didn't roll dodge when it should. There goes your no death achievement.
I know there are few bosses who are DPS check/race but otherwise, no.
High DPS equals shorter fights. Shorter fights means less mechanics to deal with. Less mechanics to deal with equals less chance to make a mistake on one of them. It does make a difference. Yes, you can have a no death/speedrun with 20-30k. It will require to learn the mechanics perfectly though. With no room for mistakes. Bump the DPS up and you have a lot more wiggle room. And from my experience it's much easier to teach people how to DPS than perfect the mechanics.
And it's also a very funny misconception a lot of people have about 40k+ DPS players. People think that they are all dummy heroes. But it's actually far from truth. People who care to improve DPS usually care about mechanics as well. High DPS and mechanics are not exclusive.
You can have 100k+ DPS, and it doesn't matter at Mezeluth in CoH II. I played in high DPS groups (60k+) and always somebody rolls dogde wrongly, not to type that I even had wipes with those same groups. They burn whole dungeon super fast and than get wiped at her.
Or how about Whisperer in Spindleclutch I? Another PUG bain and impossible to get No Death Run achivement.
And so on...
From all the possible examples you've probably chosen the worst one. That boss in CoH II can be killed before the first pull. Yep, just straight up DPS allows you to bypass his mechanics completely.
And 60k+ is not really high end. It's solid, sure but translates to healer doing 10k and two DDs with 25k? Nothing to write home about.
I honestly don't even remember what's the difficult part in Spindle. Her heavy attack doesn't one shot if you have igneous on you. Maybe Rilis from BC I would've been a better example.
But I'll give you that, despite those bad examples there are fights where more DPS can be detrimental. Last boss in Fang Lair, Velidreth if you over DPS her before grabbing the lanterns... But those are pretty rare. And once again, people who can do 40-50k single target DPS rarely have issues with mechanics.
Wrong.1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BaneOfBattler wrote: »
No Death Run achievement in many dungeons has nothing with DPS and no matter how high DPS you have if just one member makes mistake there goes your death run because you can't avoid mechanics no matter how much high DPS you have.
I intentionally didn't bold as I expected this answer
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Yes but no death and speed run achievements (the word you didn't bold...) is way easier with high dps. - for speed run and no death achievements you need proper team - all roles to know what to do and knowing dungeon mechanics. Your high DPS is useless if just one group member don't do his/her job properly - for example it won't help if one member gets one shoted because didn't roll dodge when it should. There goes your no death achievement.
I know there are few bosses who are DPS check/race but otherwise, no.
High DPS equals shorter fights. Shorter fights means less mechanics to deal with. Less mechanics to deal with equals less chance to make a mistake on one of them. It does make a difference. Yes, you can have a no death/speedrun with 20-30k. It will require to learn the mechanics perfectly though. With no room for mistakes. Bump the DPS up and you have a lot more wiggle room. And from my experience it's much easier to teach people how to DPS than perfect the mechanics.
And it's also a very funny misconception a lot of people have about 40k+ DPS players. People think that they are all dummy heroes. But it's actually far from truth. People who care to improve DPS usually care about mechanics as well. High DPS and mechanics are not exclusive.
You can have 100k+ DPS, and it doesn't matter at Mezeluth in CoH II. I played in high DPS groups (60k+) and always somebody rolls dogde wrongly, not to type that I even had wipes with those same groups. They burn whole dungeon super fast and than get wiped at her.
Or how about Whisperer in Spindleclutch I? Another PUG bain and impossible to get No Death Run achivement.
And so on...
From all the possible examples you've probably chosen the worst one. That boss in CoH II can be killed before the first pull. Yep, just straight up DPS allows you to bypass his mechanics completely.
And 60k+ is not really high end. It's solid, sure but translates to healer doing 10k and two DDs with 25k? Nothing to write home about.
I honestly don't even remember what's the difficult part in Spindle. Her heavy attack doesn't one shot if you have igneous on you. Maybe Rilis from BC I would've been a better example.
But I'll give you that, despite those bad examples there are fights where more DPS can be detrimental. Last boss in Fang Lair, Velidreth if you over DPS her before grabbing the lanterns... But those are pretty rare. And once again, people who can do 40-50k single target DPS rarely have issues with mechanics.
Wrong.
Useful.3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No Death Run achievement in many dungeons has nothing with DPS and no matter how high DPS you have if just one member makes mistake there goes your death run because you can't avoid mechanics no matter how much high DPS you have.
I intentionally didn't bold as I expected this answer
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Yes but no death and speed run achievements (the word you didn't bold...) is way easier with high dps. - for speed run and no death achievements you need proper team - all roles to know what to do and knowing dungeon mechanics. Your high DPS is useless if just one group member don't do his/her job properly - for example it won't help if one member gets one shoted because didn't roll dodge when it should. There goes your no death achievement.
I know there are few bosses who are DPS check/race but otherwise, no.
High DPS equals shorter fights. Shorter fights means less mechanics to deal with. Less mechanics to deal with equals less chance to make a mistake on one of them. It does make a difference. Yes, you can have a no death/speedrun with 20-30k. It will require to learn the mechanics perfectly though. With no room for mistakes. Bump the DPS up and you have a lot more wiggle room. And from my experience it's much easier to teach people how to DPS than perfect the mechanics.
And it's also a very funny misconception a lot of people have about 40k+ DPS players. People think that they are all dummy heroes. But it's actually far from truth. People who care to improve DPS usually care about mechanics as well. High DPS and mechanics are not exclusive.
You can have 100k+ DPS, and it doesn't matter at Mezeluth in CoH II. I played in high DPS groups (60k+) and always somebody rolls dogde wrongly, not to type that I even had wipes with those same groups. They burn whole dungeon super fast and than get wiped at her.
Or how about Whisperer in Spindleclutch I? Another PUG bain and impossible to get No Death Run achivement.
And so on...
Do you seriously think I want to hit 40k+ DPS so that I can completely ignore mechanics 100% of the time while doing speed runs and no-death clears? I obviously understand the importance of everyone knowing the mechanics, and I'm frequently the one patiently TEACHING the mechanics to people in PUGs.
For difficult achievements, more group DPS simply gives you more wiggle room and frequently reduces the time you have to spend paying attention to mechanics. Why slowly burn the Planar Inhibitor, letting it go into blue phase because you're wasting time destroying rifts, when you could just burn it? Also, who doesn't want to complete speed runs as quickly as possible? Why run the risk of missing the achievement by a few seconds because you don't have enough group DPS?1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Check your combat metrics and compare. With Mage, your pet damage average should increase. Your LA/HA damage might go down a touch. The remaining skills should stay more or less the same.
Thanks, @Merlin13KAGL! I appreciate the tips.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Well done. Nice to see Mechanical still having some use.
OP, since you're running a pet build, you'll benefit more from Max Magicka. You might try a parse with the Mage mundus instead of Apprentice.
Pet Damage is solely based on max Mag, and with the change to light and heavy attacks becoming equally based on SD and Max Mag, it will basically be a straight tradeoff regarding LA/HA damage and skills, but your pet damage should go up.
You'll lose the +20% boost from the spell power pot, but only on the difference the Apprentice was giving you anyway (You'll 'lose' about 60 SD) I just tried several parses with Mage instead of Apprentice, and actually found that my DPS crept back down to 33-34k. I was only able to get it back up to 35k with Apprentice. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, given that pets do indeed scale off max magicka, but I'll play around with it some more. CP allocation or the rotation could be a factor.
You may have just gotten different proc rates on regular crits and the proc of Mechanical.
In either case, use the one that ends up giving you the best numbers!
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
What?Also, always remember to aim for numbers that are actually necessary for what you want to achieve. I don't want to hit 40k because I think it will help me with vet dungeons; I want to hit 40k because I want to complete difficult vet DLC dungeon/trial achievements. If you all you want to do is complete vet CoA II without being kicked, aim for a solid 20-25k DPS. If you don't care about veteran content at all, you will be MORE than comfortable running normal dungeons and trials in the 15-20k DPS range.
You can finish veteran DLC dungeons in HM with 20k DPS as long as you know mechanics and group DPS is at least 40k DPS.
Agree with you but her post doesn't need to be picked apart.0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Check your combat metrics and compare. With Mage, your pet damage average should increase. Your LA/HA damage might go down a touch. The remaining skills should stay more or less the same.
Thanks, @Merlin13KAGL! I appreciate the tips.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Well done. Nice to see Mechanical still having some use.
OP, since you're running a pet build, you'll benefit more from Max Magicka. You might try a parse with the Mage mundus instead of Apprentice.
Pet Damage is solely based on max Mag, and with the change to light and heavy attacks becoming equally based on SD and Max Mag, it will basically be a straight tradeoff regarding LA/HA damage and skills, but your pet damage should go up.
You'll lose the +20% boost from the spell power pot, but only on the difference the Apprentice was giving you anyway (You'll 'lose' about 60 SD) I just tried several parses with Mage instead of Apprentice, and actually found that my DPS crept back down to 33-34k. I was only able to get it back up to 35k with Apprentice. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, given that pets do indeed scale off max magicka, but I'll play around with it some more. CP allocation or the rotation could be a factor.
You may have just gotten different proc rates on regular crits and the proc of Mechanical.
In either case, use the one that ends up giving you the best numbers!
I am on console, alas, so no combat metrics. And yeah, crit RNG could definitely be factoring into it. Either way, I’m probably going to switch Mechanical Acuity out for something else after we get Summerset in a few days.
0 -
CompM4s✭✭✭✭✭Just keep in mind that you need as high as possible dps while still being able to not die and sustain. Also dps will be higher in dungeon/ trial due to group buffs and minor slayer from trial set if you run one.0 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I recommend playing all three roles - with healer as my primary role.
As healer, I worship a tank's ability to grab, turn and hold the big threats so I can build my house and focus on feeding shards to the tank, HoTs for all and watching for when my heal bursts might be required. I have huge respect for dps because they make the fight go ever so much faster, dramatically reducing our time at risk. Dps also free me from having to contribute more than incidental dps as well.
As a tank, I appreciate HoTs from the healer so I don't have to really monitor my health and can more fully focus on keeping the big threats off my team and held in one small stationary area. Holding those foes though, does no good without dps to turn it into veritable killing zone.
As a dps, it makes a massive difference when a tank grabs, turns and holds the big threats in one spot so I can fully unleash the potential of my AoEs. And the healer can often let me keep pouring out dps without pausing to self heal.
As far as animation canceling, I do use it but it was a long and gentle road to get there. Very gradually practiced on dummies, one aspect at a time, gradually getting faster and developing automatic habits that I don't even think about now.
And I agree with practice and persistence regarding dps. I love my bow/bow stamsorc but was always nervous to advertise her as a dps due the weak pew plink pew rep that bow/bows have. I did stick with it and learn though. With thought, study and practice, she gradually brought her dps from ~10K up to over 20K. Since I've no interest in vet, I no longer feel apologetic for calling her a dps who can hold her own. I also understood (and experienced it from other bow/bows) the frustration of archers that run and lead a boss all over - literally destroying the effectiveness of their own and other players' AoEs. So my archer does not run but focuses on keeping the boss inside the radius of her volley/caltrops killing zone at all times.
Gosh, a lot of rambling here. Sorry. PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
TheNightflame✭✭✭✭✭practice is 100% how you improve your dps, but your dps floor/ceiling is so affected by your gear it's not even funny.0