Isn't it a bit stupid how weak Vigor is, considering Healing is halved in PvP?
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Heals were never meant to be the main defense of stamina - dodging and blocking is.
...which is exactly why stamina used to be stronger in medium; back before Sloads Bleeds & Duroks meta, undodgeable/unblockable/uncloakable Rune Cages etc
Though many people still saw 2H as "necessary" to survive after getting hit by burst.
Previous patch was actually alright for a medium armor user (even with only Vigor on bar) as they made Power Lashes & birds dodgeable, but now it's all screwed up again thanks to Rune Cage & all these DoT+Sload stacking builds.
You can see pretty much every streamer/youtuber playing a stam build going heavy or slotting tank sets like Impregnable/Brass nowadays & focusing less on blocking/dodging, and I don't think there's a single one that runs with just Vigor as a heal.1 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭considering it ticks for 2.4k(or 3k+ if it crits) it PvP, I don't consider it weak at all, if its weak for you, that means your stam pool is pretty smallAlone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Umm, there are other options out there for stam builds not using a 2 hander...except maybe a bow/bow build(in which case you should be staying out of melee range as much as possible anyway). Say... blood craze for DW(or the DW ultimate, although thats not a good one being an ult) and depending on the class you have other heals available as well, no, you wont be able to depend on a single heal as a stamina build...but neither can magicka builds...my magicka DK for instance has embers, healing ward, rapid regen, and coagulating blood that I circulate between depending on what I need...no one depends on a single heal.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
Please show me the video against good players where you are only using healing ward to survive and not embers, Flame Lash procs, the resto ult, or the other various other DK heal toys like Cauterize, Shattering rocks, or either shield.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭considering it ticks for 2.4k(or 3k+ if it crits) it PvP, I don't consider it weak at all, if its weak for you, that means your stam pool is pretty small
Right, so on my 5k weapon damage 34k stam DW/Bow (close to the "cap" without running heavy sets like Legion that require you to get lucky with procs) medium stamblade I get 15968/5s fully buffed tooltip on it.
1,5k/s heals or 2,5k crits when there's no Defile around.
Adding 1k more stam would add a whopping 200 over 5 seconds to the tooltip. Amazing 20 health/second in PvP.
Even 10k more stamina would only result in 200 health/second increase.
Vigor scales very poorly with stats, you'll get most benefit for it from buffs like Major Mending or Vitality or the heavy armor +8% (which btw is worth around "10k stamina" since it increases Vigor tooltip by 2k'ish).Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Umm, there are other options out there for stam builds not using a 2 hander...except maybe a bow/bow build(in which case you should be staying out of melee range as much as possible anyway). Say... blood craze for DW(or the DW ultimate, although thats not a good one being an ult) and depending on the class you have other heals available as well, no, you wont be able to depend on a single heal as a stamina build...but neither can magicka builds...my magicka DK for instance has embers, healing ward, rapid regen, and coagulating blood that I circulate between depending on what I need...no one depends on a single heal.
Blood Craze is good for duels, but it's terrible for open world where you simply don't have time to put down DoTs on people (especially on medium armor) & it's often better to just burst people down (pugs die fast) to reduce pressure.
Also, my mDK does just fine with Healing Ward as a real dedicated defensive ability.
I do also get heals from Power Lash/Embers, but Healing Ward is what carries the build thanks to high spell dmg & the ridiculously big shields it provides with that.
I don't run (or need) Rapid Regen or Coagulating Blood, especially in the current defile meta.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
Please show me the video against good players where you are only using healing ward to survive and not embers, Flame Lash procs, the resto ult, or the other various other DK heal toys like Cauterize, Shattering rocks, or either shield.
I think magplars are the only spec in the game that can get away with having a single heal. And I mean a dedicated heal. Burning Embers, Flame Lash, Strife, she Puncturing Sweeps are offensive abilities.0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You know you can buff healing received yes? If you post your build im sure we'll figure out the issue. Also, you could have debuffs on you when the ticks seem weak.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Heals were never meant to be the main defense of stamina - dodging and blocking is.
...which is exactly why stamina used to be stronger in medium; back before Sloads Bleeds & Duroks meta, undodgeable/unblockable/uncloakable Rune Cages etc
Though many people still saw 2H as "necessary" to survive after getting hit by burst.
Previous patch was actually alright for a medium armor user (even with only Vigor on bar) as they made Power Lashes & birds dodgeable, but now it's all screwed up again thanks to Rune Cage & all these DoT+Sload stacking builds.
You can see pretty much every streamer/youtuber playing a stam build going heavy or slotting tank sets like Impregnable/Brass nowadays & focusing less on blocking/dodging, and I don't think there's a single one that runs with just Vigor as a heal.
Well - having a BoL like heal without the downsides of Rally on top of dodging and blocking, not to mention kiting with FM, would be absurd. Don’t you think?Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭All of the small heals magplars have don't even add up to vigor ticks alone. I'm talking about ritual of ret (1.5k every two seconds not counting battlespirit) purifying light (2kish every two seconds) puncturing sweeps ( complicated but if you deal 2k on one hit, you'll get a miserable amount back like 600 I think? So you could safely say I'd get atleast 1800 in one cast of sweeps, if all hit and one or two crit)
So let's do the math.
300 health a second with ritual
1kish a second from PL
And 1800 from sweeps.
3.3k health a second from all magplar hots.
Oh but wait it gets worse. See you can't just fire sweeps and get the heal. You have to HIT with it. You have to be inside of you ritual to get the hot from RoR, and purifying light? Yeah you only get the hot if you manage to stay on top of ur target and only after the explosion.
So all the hots I have to work hard for, and giving hard work don't really provide me with anything worthwhile anyway. We could say that honor the dead is super OP!! But wait...8k, perfect scenario heal crit on myself....when I'm at 25k health that's three casts to get from 25% to full....If they all crit...AND ur only getting that weak ass ritual of ret heal while casting honor the dead. Negating the point of the other skills heals...See where I'm going?
Vigor cost, even though increased recently, is still cheaper than honor the dead. Vigor heals you, for more than all three of THE HEALING CLASSES HOTS. Combined! Vigor is fire and forget, you cast it and have five seconds to burst your way to victory. Get into trouble? One cast of rally and ur good. Magplar can only dream of being able to cast honor the dead once like you can with rally and get full health from 25%.
Oh I'm sorry I forgot to include eclipse. While a fun skill, and a great mitigating heal when timed with enemy burst...us be lucky to get two tics of heal/damage from it. And it gives out free immunity so is questionable to use on our oh so limited skill bars.
This is part of the problem with magplar in general. We have *** for defense while being offensive, I don't think any other class or spec has to deal with it. Problem is that when I go defensive I'm super tanky. But only due to being forced into SnB in most builds. ZOS will never change us.
I think what they need to do for magplar is give back the three way heal of Bol, buff the small heals to 50% of the large heal, then make both morphs large heal portion ONLY effect the caster...that way heal tanks won't get stronger than they are.
Anyway, sorry I'm passionate about magplar. Vigor is ridiculously strong, especially when combined with two hand heal, bow heal, or DW hot, dodge rolls, blocking capabilities. It's so strong as a matter of fact that I think cloak needs to suppress all heals while it's active, or not suppress my dots.
I hope you learned somthing2 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, this is going to be one of those threads where people who play/play against Heavy Armor 2H/X builds will disagree with you, but people in medium armor will agree (especially people who play without 2H).
Vigor can be strong as a supplementary heal to keep you alive between Rally burst heals, especially when you couple it with high mitigation.
Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value - but it's also unfortunately the only heal available for most stam builds outside Rally from 2H and thus necessary. I wouldn't call it strong though in those circumstances.
Vigors also aoe, and can stack with 2 other vigors.
I swear, you people compare everything, but neglect so much that's vital to its balance. Gl killing 3 well built stamina characters coordinating vigor. They'll hardly ever be on the defensive.
Curious, which heal over time are you specifically saying outclasses vigor?
Vigor isn't a reactionary heal. Only noobs use it as one,
Which sounds like you do. Good stam players vigor on cooldown when taking dmg. Stamina, ESPECIALLY medium, is about staying offensive and pressuring.
Dodge and block are your "shields" type level of damage control.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Heals were never meant to be the main defense of stamina - dodging and blocking is.
...which is exactly why stamina used to be stronger in medium; back before Sloads Bleeds & Duroks meta, undodgeable/unblockable/uncloakable Rune Cages etc
Though many people still saw 2H as "necessary" to survive after getting hit by burst.
Previous patch was actually alright for a medium armor user (even with only Vigor on bar) as they made Power Lashes & birds dodgeable, but now it's all screwed up again thanks to Rune Cage & all these DoT+Sload stacking builds.
You can see pretty much every streamer/youtuber playing a stam build going heavy or slotting tank sets like Impregnable/Brass nowadays & focusing less on blocking/dodging, and I don't think there's a single one that runs with just Vigor as a heal.
Well - having a BoL like heal without the downsides of Rally on top of dodging and blocking, not to mention kiting with FM, would be absurd. Don’t you think?
Eh, I'd settle for something like Warden spores (like 4/5ths of a Honor the Dead) or just a heal like Rally even that can only really get value every X seconds. No such thing exists for DW/Bow stamblade though (no, Draining Shot is not a reliable or even a good heal).You know you can buff healing received yes? If you post your build im sure we'll figure out the issue. Also, you could have debuffs on you when the ticks seem weak.
You can, unless you play a stamblade - in which case the only buff to healing received you can get is Major Vitality for 15s by using a potion (or 4 seconds by using Soul Siphon ulti).Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Well, this is going to be one of those threads where people who play/play against Heavy Armor 2H/X builds will disagree with you, but people in medium armor will agree (especially people who play without 2H).
Vigor can be strong as a supplementary heal to keep you alive between Rally burst heals, especially when you couple it with high mitigation.
Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value - but it's also unfortunately the only heal available for most stam builds outside Rally from 2H and thus necessary. I wouldn't call it strong though in those circumstances.
Vigors also aoe, and can stack with 2 other vigors.
I swear, you people compare everything, but neglect so much that's vital to its balance. Gl killing 3 well built stamina characters coordinating vigor. They'll hardly ever be on the defensive.
Curious, which heal over time are you specifically saying outclasses vigor?
Vigor isn't a reactionary heal. Only noobs use it as one,
Which sounds like you do. Good stam players vigor on cooldown when taking dmg. Stamina, ESPECIALLY medium, is about staying offensive and pressuring.
Dodge and block are your "shields" type level of damage control.
Well, I don't really play in groups much (that's supposed to be the strong suit of "rogues" & "assassins" in most RPGs: 1v1), but if I see 3 stam builds coordinating Vigors I'll probably just jump on my bowblade and one shot them one by one from stealth, unless they're playing heavy armor megatanks in which case... SOL I guess. People like that always think nothing can kill them when they play their cheesy builds and I'm happy to prove them wrong if I can.
Vigor is the "reactionary heal" for any build not using a 2H. Why? Because there isn't another option (except for stam wardens). No matter how much you dodge and block, there are times when you need those reactionary burst heals and that's when you'll wind up cursing Vigor for being weak.
This is especially the case if you play a medium armor build without tank sets like Brass or Impregnable as that health bar drops fast (faster than your Vigor can outheal). Something like bleed stacks+sload will easily deal more damage than your Vigor can outheal for example (even if you take no other dmg thanks to dodge roll).
It's been over three years now that I've played with Vigor as my only main heal (it was added in March 2015) - before that I played with zero heals and strangely the game still felt more balanced back then lolEdited by DDuke on May 29, 2018 11:37PM0 -
barshemm✭✭✭✭Vigor is my burst heal, though I use it a lot anyway. When I get too pressured though Los or just block and vigor is what I do. In run heavy so I use momentum. Have dark deal too but the cast time makes it not so useful a heal.
Having to run momentum isn't having to use 2 slots as someone said. It also makes me immune to snare and root briefly. It's a good slot choice.
Also someone else mentioned sload and bleeds affecting medium armor. Both affect heavy equally. It's all the unforgeable stuns like cage that make medium difficult. Shields and high mitigation still perform way better because of the counters to dodge, especially when dealing with mag sorcs since summerset0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Even for Stamina there is always more exception, and more options ... for example you can run a Stamsorc without vigor nor 2h ...
Edited by Aznox on May 30, 2018 8:02AMAznox
PC EU
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Heals were never meant to be the main defense of stamina - dodging and blocking is.
...which is exactly why stamina used to be stronger in medium; back before Sloads Bleeds & Duroks meta, undodgeable/unblockable/uncloakable Rune Cages etc
Though many people still saw 2H as "necessary" to survive after getting hit by burst.
Previous patch was actually alright for a medium armor user (even with only Vigor on bar) as they made Power Lashes & birds dodgeable, but now it's all screwed up again thanks to Rune Cage & all these DoT+Sload stacking builds.
You can see pretty much every streamer/youtuber playing a stam build going heavy or slotting tank sets like Impregnable/Brass nowadays & focusing less on blocking/dodging, and I don't think there's a single one that runs with just Vigor as a heal.
Well - having a BoL like heal without the downsides of Rally on top of dodging and blocking, not to mention kiting with FM, would be absurd. Don’t you think?
Eh, I'd settle for something like Warden spores (like 4/5ths of a Honor the Dead) or just a heal like Rally even that can only really get value every X seconds. No such thing exists for DW/Bow stamblade though (no, Draining Shot is not a reliable or even a good heal).You know you can buff healing received yes? If you post your build im sure we'll figure out the issue. Also, you could have debuffs on you when the ticks seem weak.
You can, unless you play a stamblade - in which case the only buff to healing received you can get is Major Vitality for 15s by using a potion (or 4 seconds by using Soul Siphon ulti).Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Well, this is going to be one of those threads where people who play/play against Heavy Armor 2H/X builds will disagree with you, but people in medium armor will agree (especially people who play without 2H).
Vigor can be strong as a supplementary heal to keep you alive between Rally burst heals, especially when you couple it with high mitigation.
Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value - but it's also unfortunately the only heal available for most stam builds outside Rally from 2H and thus necessary. I wouldn't call it strong though in those circumstances.
Vigors also aoe, and can stack with 2 other vigors.
I swear, you people compare everything, but neglect so much that's vital to its balance. Gl killing 3 well built stamina characters coordinating vigor. They'll hardly ever be on the defensive.
Curious, which heal over time are you specifically saying outclasses vigor?
Vigor isn't a reactionary heal. Only noobs use it as one,
Which sounds like you do. Good stam players vigor on cooldown when taking dmg. Stamina, ESPECIALLY medium, is about staying offensive and pressuring.
Dodge and block are your "shields" type level of damage control.
Well, I don't really play in groups much (that's supposed to be the strong suit of "rogues" & "assassins" in most RPGs: 1v1), but if I see 3 stam builds coordinating Vigors I'll probably just jump on my bowblade and one shot them one by one from stealth, unless they're playing heavy armor megatanks in which case... SOL I guess. People like that always think nothing can kill them when they play their cheesy builds and I'm happy to prove them wrong if I can.
Vigor is the "reactionary heal" for any build not using a 2H. Why? Because there isn't another option (except for stam wardens). No matter how much you dodge and block, there are times when you need those reactionary burst heals and that's when you'll wind up cursing Vigor for being weak.
This is especially the case if you play a medium armor build without tank sets like Brass or Impregnable as that health bar drops fast (faster than your Vigor can outheal). Something like bleed stacks+sload will easily deal more damage than your Vigor can outheal for example (even if you take no other dmg thanks to dodge roll).
It's been over three years now that I've played with Vigor as my only main heal (it was added in March 2015) - before that I played with zero heals and strangely the game still felt more balanced back then lol
With a burst heal, a strong HoT, and stealth, as well as dodging and blocking (and possibly snare immunity via FM) - where is the downside to the play style then?Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Even for Stamina there is always more exception, and more options ... for example you can run a Stamsorc without vigor nor 2h ...
And exactly how viable is that? Wait, don't answer - I actually tried running Crit Surge only on a bow sorc & it didn't go very well... I think even the Vigor only playstyle is very dependent on cloak, there's just too many undodgeable/unavoidable attacks for it to work otherwise.Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Heals were never meant to be the main defense of stamina - dodging and blocking is.
...which is exactly why stamina used to be stronger in medium; back before Sloads Bleeds & Duroks meta, undodgeable/unblockable/uncloakable Rune Cages etc
Though many people still saw 2H as "necessary" to survive after getting hit by burst.
Previous patch was actually alright for a medium armor user (even with only Vigor on bar) as they made Power Lashes & birds dodgeable, but now it's all screwed up again thanks to Rune Cage & all these DoT+Sload stacking builds.
You can see pretty much every streamer/youtuber playing a stam build going heavy or slotting tank sets like Impregnable/Brass nowadays & focusing less on blocking/dodging, and I don't think there's a single one that runs with just Vigor as a heal.
Well - having a BoL like heal without the downsides of Rally on top of dodging and blocking, not to mention kiting with FM, would be absurd. Don’t you think?
Eh, I'd settle for something like Warden spores (like 4/5ths of a Honor the Dead) or just a heal like Rally even that can only really get value every X seconds. No such thing exists for DW/Bow stamblade though (no, Draining Shot is not a reliable or even a good heal).You know you can buff healing received yes? If you post your build im sure we'll figure out the issue. Also, you could have debuffs on you when the ticks seem weak.
You can, unless you play a stamblade - in which case the only buff to healing received you can get is Major Vitality for 15s by using a potion (or 4 seconds by using Soul Siphon ulti).Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Well, this is going to be one of those threads where people who play/play against Heavy Armor 2H/X builds will disagree with you, but people in medium armor will agree (especially people who play without 2H).
Vigor can be strong as a supplementary heal to keep you alive between Rally burst heals, especially when you couple it with high mitigation.
Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value - but it's also unfortunately the only heal available for most stam builds outside Rally from 2H and thus necessary. I wouldn't call it strong though in those circumstances.
Vigors also aoe, and can stack with 2 other vigors.
I swear, you people compare everything, but neglect so much that's vital to its balance. Gl killing 3 well built stamina characters coordinating vigor. They'll hardly ever be on the defensive.
Curious, which heal over time are you specifically saying outclasses vigor?
Vigor isn't a reactionary heal. Only noobs use it as one,
Which sounds like you do. Good stam players vigor on cooldown when taking dmg. Stamina, ESPECIALLY medium, is about staying offensive and pressuring.
Dodge and block are your "shields" type level of damage control.
Well, I don't really play in groups much (that's supposed to be the strong suit of "rogues" & "assassins" in most RPGs: 1v1), but if I see 3 stam builds coordinating Vigors I'll probably just jump on my bowblade and one shot them one by one from stealth, unless they're playing heavy armor megatanks in which case... SOL I guess. People like that always think nothing can kill them when they play their cheesy builds and I'm happy to prove them wrong if I can.
Vigor is the "reactionary heal" for any build not using a 2H. Why? Because there isn't another option (except for stam wardens). No matter how much you dodge and block, there are times when you need those reactionary burst heals and that's when you'll wind up cursing Vigor for being weak.
This is especially the case if you play a medium armor build without tank sets like Brass or Impregnable as that health bar drops fast (faster than your Vigor can outheal). Something like bleed stacks+sload will easily deal more damage than your Vigor can outheal for example (even if you take no other dmg thanks to dodge roll).
It's been over three years now that I've played with Vigor as my only main heal (it was added in March 2015) - before that I played with zero heals and strangely the game still felt more balanced back then lol
With a burst heal, a strong HoT, and stealth, as well as dodging and blocking (and possibly snare immunity via FM) - where is the downside to the play style then?
I'm not sure what you're asking, are you implying there isn't a downside to playing a stam build with burst heals and heal over time? Because those exist already (everyone with Rally & stam Wardens who also get spores as burst heal & Shimmering as dmg shield).
Downsides:
Getting 100>0'd by (undodgeable/unblockable) burst.
Defile.
Pretty much the same "downsides" other meta builds have?0 -
barshemm✭✭✭✭Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Even for Stamina there is always more exception, and more options ... for example you can run a Stamsorc without vigor nor 2h ...
Have you tried that?
I have a few times. I always end up finding a slot for vigor. I will drop crit surge before I will drop vigor.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Heals were never meant to be the main defense of stamina - dodging and blocking is.
...which is exactly why stamina used to be stronger in medium; back before Sloads Bleeds & Duroks meta, undodgeable/unblockable/uncloakable Rune Cages etc
Though many people still saw 2H as "necessary" to survive after getting hit by burst.
Previous patch was actually alright for a medium armor user (even with only Vigor on bar) as they made Power Lashes & birds dodgeable, but now it's all screwed up again thanks to Rune Cage & all these DoT+Sload stacking builds.
You can see pretty much every streamer/youtuber playing a stam build going heavy or slotting tank sets like Impregnable/Brass nowadays & focusing less on blocking/dodging, and I don't think there's a single one that runs with just Vigor as a heal.
Well - having a BoL like heal without the downsides of Rally on top of dodging and blocking, not to mention kiting with FM, would be absurd. Don’t you think?
Eh, I'd settle for something like Warden spores (like 4/5ths of a Honor the Dead) or just a heal like Rally even that can only really get value every X seconds. No such thing exists for DW/Bow stamblade though (no, Draining Shot is not a reliable or even a good heal).You know you can buff healing received yes? If you post your build im sure we'll figure out the issue. Also, you could have debuffs on you when the ticks seem weak.
You can, unless you play a stamblade - in which case the only buff to healing received you can get is Major Vitality for 15s by using a potion (or 4 seconds by using Soul Siphon ulti).Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Well, this is going to be one of those threads where people who play/play against Heavy Armor 2H/X builds will disagree with you, but people in medium armor will agree (especially people who play without 2H).
Vigor can be strong as a supplementary heal to keep you alive between Rally burst heals, especially when you couple it with high mitigation.
Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value - but it's also unfortunately the only heal available for most stam builds outside Rally from 2H and thus necessary. I wouldn't call it strong though in those circumstances.
Vigors also aoe, and can stack with 2 other vigors.
I swear, you people compare everything, but neglect so much that's vital to its balance. Gl killing 3 well built stamina characters coordinating vigor. They'll hardly ever be on the defensive.
Curious, which heal over time are you specifically saying outclasses vigor?
Vigor isn't a reactionary heal. Only noobs use it as one,
Which sounds like you do. Good stam players vigor on cooldown when taking dmg. Stamina, ESPECIALLY medium, is about staying offensive and pressuring.
Dodge and block are your "shields" type level of damage control.
Well, I don't really play in groups much (that's supposed to be the strong suit of "rogues" & "assassins" in most RPGs: 1v1), but if I see 3 stam builds coordinating Vigors I'll probably just jump on my bowblade and one shot them one by one from stealth, unless they're playing heavy armor megatanks in which case... SOL I guess. People like that always think nothing can kill them when they play their cheesy builds and I'm happy to prove them wrong if I can.
Ever think that since you have the option and capability to do this is the reason vigor works as it does? If I see 3 stam builds coordinating Vigors I'm dead because I don't have cloak, I don't have the ability to one shot people, and I don't have mobility.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
Pastas✭✭✭Vigor is awesomeWARNINGThis post may Include horrible gramatical and orthographic errorsRead on your own riskAD
Dar'foo Stamblade Zorg-gro-Wurf DK tank Far-Datxo Templar healer Valmir Spellius Magsorc
Randolf Omberic Magblade Felien Golas Magdk Faenor Oakwood Stamplar Sader Dustorm Stamsorc
EP
Do'Ragash Stamdk Caius Grachus Stamden Dalyne Narus Magplar
DC
Melkar Spellius MagdenPC EU1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah Vigor should get a 100% buff... on the same day Rapid Regen gets a 300% buff!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value
No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.
Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.
Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.
Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).
That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.
That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?
No, but you have other options.
Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.
Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.
It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.
Heals were never meant to be the main defense of stamina - dodging and blocking is.
...which is exactly why stamina used to be stronger in medium; back before Sloads Bleeds & Duroks meta, undodgeable/unblockable/uncloakable Rune Cages etc
Though many people still saw 2H as "necessary" to survive after getting hit by burst.
Previous patch was actually alright for a medium armor user (even with only Vigor on bar) as they made Power Lashes & birds dodgeable, but now it's all screwed up again thanks to Rune Cage & all these DoT+Sload stacking builds.
You can see pretty much every streamer/youtuber playing a stam build going heavy or slotting tank sets like Impregnable/Brass nowadays & focusing less on blocking/dodging, and I don't think there's a single one that runs with just Vigor as a heal.
Well - having a BoL like heal without the downsides of Rally on top of dodging and blocking, not to mention kiting with FM, would be absurd. Don’t you think?
Eh, I'd settle for something like Warden spores (like 4/5ths of a Honor the Dead) or just a heal like Rally even that can only really get value every X seconds. No such thing exists for DW/Bow stamblade though (no, Draining Shot is not a reliable or even a good heal).You know you can buff healing received yes? If you post your build im sure we'll figure out the issue. Also, you could have debuffs on you when the ticks seem weak.
You can, unless you play a stamblade - in which case the only buff to healing received you can get is Major Vitality for 15s by using a potion (or 4 seconds by using Soul Siphon ulti).Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Well, this is going to be one of those threads where people who play/play against Heavy Armor 2H/X builds will disagree with you, but people in medium armor will agree (especially people who play without 2H).
Vigor can be strong as a supplementary heal to keep you alive between Rally burst heals, especially when you couple it with high mitigation.
Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value - but it's also unfortunately the only heal available for most stam builds outside Rally from 2H and thus necessary. I wouldn't call it strong though in those circumstances.
Vigors also aoe, and can stack with 2 other vigors.
I swear, you people compare everything, but neglect so much that's vital to its balance. Gl killing 3 well built stamina characters coordinating vigor. They'll hardly ever be on the defensive.
Curious, which heal over time are you specifically saying outclasses vigor?
Vigor isn't a reactionary heal. Only noobs use it as one,
Which sounds like you do. Good stam players vigor on cooldown when taking dmg. Stamina, ESPECIALLY medium, is about staying offensive and pressuring.
Dodge and block are your "shields" type level of damage control.
Well, I don't really play in groups much (that's supposed to be the strong suit of "rogues" & "assassins" in most RPGs: 1v1), but if I see 3 stam builds coordinating Vigors I'll probably just jump on my bowblade and one shot them one by one from stealth, unless they're playing heavy armor megatanks in which case... SOL I guess. People like that always think nothing can kill them when they play their cheesy builds and I'm happy to prove them wrong if I can.
Ever think that since you have the option and capability to do this is the reason vigor works as it does? If I see 3 stam builds coordinating Vigors I'm dead because I don't have cloak, I don't have the ability to one shot people, and I don't have mobility.
Yeah, I can see it being strong in those scenarios.
All I'm saying is that it isn't that awesome for a solo player who doesn't run Rally or another burst heal, but that's really more of a problem with there not being a burst heal available for most builds that refuse to use 2H than Vigor being weak - ideally you'd have both a burst heal and Vigor.
But if as a solo player I had to choose between Vigor & let's say Warden spores (which isn't exactly the strongest of burst heals) I'd always pick spores.
That's why it's easy to think of Vigor as a weak skill: it doesn't perform well alone (when not getting support from your group), not on medium armor build anyhow. I should know, I've been playing stamblade that way for over 3 years.Edited by DDuke on May 30, 2018 3:03PM0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Azurephoenix999 wrote: »It's obtained in the PvP skill line, yet due to the fast paced nature of PvP, the relatively weak healing, the fact that it's HoT instead of instant, AND the fact that it's only half as effective in PvP, basically means it's almost completely useless in the very activity you get it from. Using it on their own, even characters with the lowest possible max health would see their health bars barely even move.
The only way I could possibly see this ability being even remotely viable in PvP is if an entire group used it at once, and I'm not even sure Vigor would stack enough times for it to work well.
I'm just saying...isn't it a bit stupid that the one heal from the PvP skill lines, one of the only stamina heals in the entire game, is almost completely useless in the activity you get it from?
Your vigor tooltip should be around 15k.... If not you have a crap build/ bad cp allocation.Edited by usmguy1234 on May 30, 2018 3:29PMZaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.2 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭What's your build that has such awfully put together healing?
If you put all the aspects of vigor together it truly is an amazingly thought out skill that works very well for its purpose.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There is an argument about this? Seriously? Based on someone's post who is clearly just new to PvP?
Vigor is proactive. Burst heals (Rally, Honor the Dead, Soothing Spores, Healing Ward) are reactive. I have preferred the former and wished, at times, that magicka would have a similar, short, but strong, proactive heal. The reactive heals are expensive, and you can easily overdo them to the point where you run out of resources. On the other hand you can find yourself dangerously in execute range, if you delay. They won't save you any more or less than Vigor, it's just a different playstyle.
A correctly specced character will have a 15K buffed Vigor tooltip in CP PvP. Honor of the Dead is only about 10K. The cost efficiency of Vigor is higher. Ideally you need both, Vigor for ongoing healing, Rally or Soothing Spores for emergency burst healing. If lacking burst healing you can layer other heals into your build, such as Bloodthirst, Blood Craze, Troll King, and so on. A single source of healing is generally not enough, unless you are fairly advanced and choosing to rely on speed, Cloak, roll dodge, Streak, Eternal Hunt, Mist Form, and so on.1 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
This one is puzzled by your ability to put Embers on people, but not Blood CrazeBlood Craze is good for duels, but it's terrible for open world where you simply don't have time to put down DoTs on people.
I do also get heals from Power Lash/Embers, ...
.
When I am beaten, one type of player who does that is able to put a full rotation of DOTs and debuffs on me, including things like Embers, Blood Craze, Reverb Bash, and so on. Sometimes I wonder how they can move so much better than me, but they can. These are typically 1vXers, built on the tanky side, who need their debuffs before bursting.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Vigor can't be considered strong if it barely outheals Sloads when affected by Defile.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Valen_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its a great heal for stam toons. What I think is dumb, is the fact that there is no magica morph. Its a PVP skill, should be able to use it on any pvp character, stam or mag.***Dixon Kay MagDK FORMER EMPEROR***Deca Dix MagDK FORMER EMPORER***Valonious MagPlar FORMER EMPEROR***
GM of BYTE
MAY YOUR DEATHS BE SWIFT, AND YOUR LOAD SCREENS LONG.
And alien tears will fill for him, Pity’s long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I'd pick Vigor. I always liked that it keeps healing while you go on the attack again. As long as Cloak works, stamblade is also still ideally placed to back off and let Vigor tick away, but of course the crit healing has been nerfed this patch. I agree Vigor alone is pretty dicey on stamblade, and only the amount of roll dodging you can do on a high stam-regen Bosmer stamblade, plus Cloak, makes up for it somewhat.But if as a solo player I had to choose between Vigor & let's say Warden spores (which isn't exactly the strongest of burst heals) I'd always pick spores.
That's why it's easy to think of Vigor as a weak skill: it doesn't perform well alone (when not getting support from your group), not on medium armor build anyhow. I should know, I've been playing stamblade that way for over 3 years.
Things feel quite different when you play a tankier class. I also play a medium armor Nord stam DK using a combination of Vigor / Troll King / Forward Momentum. No I wouldn't recommend a DK without several sources of healing either, but activating Vigor with DK buffs (Volatile Armor and/or Fragmented Shield), and Troll King as a backup, makes your health bounce back remarkably quickly. It's all about builds.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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This one is puzzled by your ability to put Embers on people, but not Blood CrazeBlood Craze is good for duels, but it's terrible for open world where you simply don't have time to put down DoTs on people.
I do also get heals from Power Lash/Embers, ....
When I am beaten, one type of player who does that is able to put a full rotation of DOTs and debuffs on me, including things like Embers, Blood Craze, Reverb Bash, and so on. Sometimes I wonder how they can move so much better than me, but they can. These are typically 1vXers, built on the tanky side, who need their debuffs before bursting.
Don't be puzzled, mDK & stamblade function very differently.
For instance I have Healing Ward on back bar as mDK which is currently the strongest defensive skill in game in the Sload+Defile meta and it lets me actually focus targets and stand my ground. Then there's the constant heals from Power Lash, which is a heal over time twice as strong as Vigor.
On my stamblade I'm constantly at low health, spamming dodge rolls/cloaks just to survive since I don't have Rally with Vigor healing maybe 500/second with Major Defile on me - there's simply no time to apply Blood Craze on opponents and I can allocate better skills on bar like Shrouded Daggers so that I get a good 1vX burst oriented skill and don't have to run weapon damage pots (since there's no Rally), which actually gives me a 45s cooldown "burst heal" in the form of potion atleast...
The tankiness of those 2 builds are on whole different levels & being tanky means you can afford luxuries like slotting Embers vs tanky players. I don't even use it often tbh, with Destro/Resto 5x BSW 2x Willpower 5x Caluurion (off bar) 2x Skoria I can burst most people before they know what happened.Edited by DDuke on May 30, 2018 8:52PM0 -
Oxalias✭✭✭it only depends on how you’re using it. if you’ve got it slotted as part of a group and you’re receiving multiple healing sources it’s great. In terms of solo play a lot of things suck right now. It’s really hard to survive on most stamina classes outnumbered against even a small group of people who have half an idea what they’re doing. Most of those clips you see of stamina players stomping players are carefully selected clips, they all go down plenty of times, you can see it on stream. Alot of stamina PvPers right now aside from NBs, are using troll king because medium sucks in general, shuffle is terrible for the snare immunity, but the combination of vigor and forward momentum and your small class heal just isn’t enough to outdo the crazy amount of incoming damage + defile that players can dish out with one button.
A lot of players I know including myself, need to use Forward momentum instead of Rally, because shuffle is just too *** now. Yeah vigor loses it's strength instantly once you are defiled, cause each tick you are getting a reduced amount, where as with a burst heal, you can just cast it twice
I think overall it's a bit of a sad time to be playing solo in general. But you know as zerglings like to tell you "Join a group" 0
