Damage and TTK in the BGs post-Summerset. What do we think?

Maulkin · May 2018

Leaving the queuing and "premade vs randoms" issues aside for a moment. What do we make of damage in the BGs this patch?

I mean there's no doubt damage has been ramped up a notch. Better light attack dmg scaling, new sets, 5-5-2 for everyone (i.e. more stats)...there's plenty of drivers behind this damage increase. Obviously the higher the damage the lower the TTK

Do you think it's fine and adding to a fast paced game? Do you think it's too much and needs reducing? Do you feel it could be higher? What's your opinion?

Maulkin · May 2018

OP website zenimax.

Throws 500 error during thread creation. Goes ahead and creates the thread. Fails to load the poll options.

GG

Bfish22090 · May 2018

looks like poll is in your signature bud

Maulkin · May 2018

Bfish22090 wrote: »

looks like poll is in your signature bud

wheem_ESO · May 2018

TTK was already too short before, and it's somewhat worse now. It causes almost all strategy to devolve into "MOAR DEEPS!!!" Sometimes it'll get as complex as, "Oh no, I'm about to die, time to dodge roll 5 times in a row while Vigor heals me back up, then chug a pot and do MOAR DEEPS!!!"

ShadowMonarch · May 2018

wheem_ESO wrote: »

TTK was already too short before, and it's somewhat worse now. It causes almost all strategy to devolve into "MOAR DEEPS!!!" Sometimes it'll get as complex as, "Oh no, I'm about to die, time to dodge roll 5 times in a row while Vigor heals me back up, then chug a pot and do MOAR DEEPS!!!"

Make dodge roll and cloak suppress heals while rolling or invis. Problem solved.

Mojomonkeyman · May 2018

It's far too much damage flying around. Oneshot-scenarios dont make for satisfying gameplay and favor certain classes more than others who rely on being able to counter said damage - which is not the case anymore in multiple scenarios.

Gilvoth · May 2018

it is better then it was last patch, it feels comfortable to me.

Baconlad · May 2018

I would be happy with either cloak suppressing healing or not suppressing my dots on him

Soris · May 2018

TTK was low since CP bgs and now it is even lower. I never liked it. Right now even with relatively low damage and godlike recoveries, you can one shot players with right combos. It doesn't feel right to me but i'm enjoying it.

And i believe there is that infamous health desync bug back again. I'm watching whole group of people die from full health to zero instantly.

Riggsy · May 2018

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

It's far too much damage flying around. Oneshot-scenarios dont make for satisfying gameplay and favor certain classes more than others who rely on being able to counter said damage - which is not the case anymore in multiple scenarios.

This. I thought there was much better balance in bgs (non-cp) prior to Summerset. Now the damage is overwhelming and it benefits certain classes.

The age of "stand you ground" and fight is over, which sucks because that is what DKs were made for, right @wrobel?

Maulkin · May 2018

I'm personally coming to the conclusion they need a different Battle Spirit for CP and no-CP content.

Damage has scaled too high with the last update. Tanks are generally obsolete and it's all about who burns whom down first. Proc sets are reigning supreme and there's simply not enough damage mitigation/reduction to see you through a fight.

Currently Battle Spirit is 50% reduction in damage, healing and shields. I would increase the damage reduction to 55% and reduce the shield/healing reduction to 45%. Create a 10% differential. Make the fights a bit longer, instead of who gets ulti up first.

gabriebe · May 2018

It's completely out of control. I run a healer in battlegrounds, and it feels completely pointless. Not only am I nerfed to death with minor and/or major defile most of the time from either Duroks/Thurvokun or just incap spam, a lot of the damage is straight up criminal like Werewolves running Zaan and Sload's. If i'm gonna die in 5 seconds through a remembrance and an Earthgore at the same time when I got 3 people on me, I'd rather try to get a kill on a DPS instead.

Edziu · May 2018

well...Im playing in dying mode gameplay which is glass cannon with mediuma armor on stambnlade under 20k health (had 16.5k before patch, now have 15.6k health, why????) and everyone damage is higher, again..why? for what

before I needed to be very very aware to not get combo 1shoting me...now even when Im aware I cant do anything as any skill is hitting me harder and ofc as stamblade broken sload with just reallt pathetic vigor as on noncp

in overall why our health in pvp got lowered?

btw aslo was with someone on tankly warden in team who also complained about this - lowered health and raised damage

so this isnt to good change as for me and ofc not only for me as I saw

Thogard · May 2018

gabriebe wrote: »

It's completely out of control. I run a healer in battlegrounds, and it feels completely pointless. Not only am I nerfed to death with minor and/or major defile most of the time from either Duroks/Thurvokun or just incap spam, a lot of the damage is straight up criminal like Werewolves running Zaan and Sload's. If i'm gonna die in 5 seconds through a remembrance and an Earthgore at the same time when I got 3 people on me, I'd rather try to get a kill on a DPS instead.

Please tell me you’re exaggerating

JWillCHS · May 2018

Riggsy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

It's far too much damage flying around. Oneshot-scenarios dont make for satisfying gameplay and favor certain classes more than others who rely on being able to counter said damage - which is not the case anymore in multiple scenarios.

This. I thought there was much better balance in bgs (non-cp) prior to Summerset. Now the damage is overwhelming and it benefits certain classes.

The age of "stand you ground" and fight is over, which sucks because that is what DKs were made for, right @wrobel?

That's how I feel while playing Magplar. I hate the idea of having to(which I won't) switch to another class just to PvP. I understand there might be a class that's the "flavor of the month" or not all classes perform the same way. But ESO is the first MMORPG that can't find ANY common ground with out breaking it. It's like complexity is synonymous with "this sh!t is broken".

gabriebe · May 2018

I'm not exaggerating. I'm (was, I guess) running a tanky magplar with EG, Duroks and transmutation. I could tank 3-4 good players long enough for my group to be able to start damaging them, and making up the deficit in the team that comes from only having 3 DPS instead.

Now I have 2-3 Sload's on me, usually 2 Dawnbreakers dropped simultaneously and a bunch of other bleeds on me that I simply cannot outheal. And even though I'm in 5 heavy, my health only stands at 23.2 now in Battlegrounds on a Breton templar. I've been running this toon for a long time, so I got a good idea of what I could survive and what I can't anymore. The damage creep right now is just out of this world for any healer recognized as a healer and getting focused on. I'll have to switch to a fully mobile DPS with an occasional emergency heal ability to survive, because a slow tanky class like MagPlar won't cut it in BGs. It isn't normal for 2-3 DPS to be able to cut through a 5 heavy MagPlar sitting in a remembrance with an Earthgore above his head 4 seconds or so.

A lot of people bitched about permablockers and healers in PvP, but I'm not liking how they want people to basically only run all-rounded characters in PvP. I preferred when there was more diversity in terms of roles. Seeing pug magnets like Draconis for example, completely changing a fight because he could tank 20 pugs out of a breach EP needed to cross.

ak_pvp · May 2018

gabriebe wrote: »

I'm not exaggerating. I'm (was, I guess) running a tanky magplar with EG, Duroks and transmutation. I could tank 3-4 good players long enough for my group to be able to start damaging them, and making up the deficit in the team that comes from only having 3 DPS instead.

Now I have 2-3 Sload's on me, usually 2 Dawnbreakers dropped simultaneously and a bunch of other bleeds on me that I simply cannot outheal. And even though I'm in 5 heavy, my health only stands at 23.2 now in Battlegrounds on a Breton templar. I've been running this toon for a long time, so I got a good idea of what I could survive and what I can't anymore. The damage creep right now is just out of this world for any healer recognized as a healer and getting focused on. I'll have to switch to a fully mobile DPS with an occasional emergency heal ability to survive, because a slow tanky class like MagPlar won't cut it in BGs. It isn't normal for 2-3 DPS to be able to cut through a 5 heavy MagPlar sitting in a remembrance with an Earthgore above his head 4 seconds or so.

A lot of people bitched about permablockers and healers in PvP, but I'm not liking how they want people to basically only run all-rounded characters in PvP. I preferred when there was more diversity in terms of roles. Seeing pug magnets like Draconis for example, completely changing a fight because he could tank 20 pugs out of a breach EP needed to cross.

Tanking 3/4 good players shouldn't be allowed for BGs anyway, openworld with CP, maybe. You should be able to fight 3/4 good players, but only by killing them and relieving pressure.

The point of BGs is quick fights, but as OP says, not to the point you get melted by a few button clicks with no possibility to deal with.

Last patch my semi tanky DK build, no dedicated tank sets or reductions, but s/b+heavy, could deal some OK damage and survive decently too. Now everyone sloads/bleeds me to death in about 4s. I switched to 2h just so I could run away.

gabriebe · May 2018

By tanking, I meant really be able to outheal the damage for about 10-15 seconds before I got in real trouble, allowing people in my team to focus the guys targeting me«+ healing them at the same time. Now I just feel like my character is complete garbage since the TTK is reduced to like 4-5 seconds while I'm pumping all the heals I can do. Normally the lack of mobility would be compensated by extra tankiness, but right now... wow. Just impossible. If I ever run another healer in BGs again it will be a nightblade, not a templar that's for sure.

Thogard · May 2018

There’s a huge influx of damage, that’s true.

But all this new damage that’s showing up is purgeable. Trying to outheal it isn’t the play.

Sloads and bleeds are the new norm... but they’re pug stomping tools and would never work on a good group with access to purify.

gabriebe · May 2018

I purify the thing, but it just gets constantly reapplied and there is more than just bleeds going on. There's the actual direct damage that hits pretty hard. I need a huge amount of ressource to do one Purge, for example, just to have durok's reapplied to me nearly instantly just from Ritual of Retribution, and Sloads nearly instantly too because it doesnt even have a cooldown really. And an Earthgore provides a cleanse and yet I still die *through* it while being in a Remembrance. It just seems crazy me to that the strongest heal combination in the game still isn't enough to survive all that stuff. I've had a lot more success on my nightblade so far surviving BGs then I playing a templar, and it's simply because I can avoid most of this damage by avoiding to engage in large group fights. Just feels like healer as a role is dying in small scale combat.

Koensol · May 2018

Damage is on an absolutely ridiculous level in no CP battlegrounds. Deathmatch is just a 1shot fest. It goes like this: team one has all ults. Team 1 nukes team 2. Then team 3 comes in with ults. Team 3 kills team 1. Then team 2 comes back again and nukes team 3. Rinse repeat.

I was playing on my magplar and I would cast purifying light, reflective light, unstable core, toppling charge and 1 or 2 jabs and by the time he breaks free he is dead. It was like this in 9/10 cases. Add in a meteor with lucky skoria proc for extra lulz and nuke a group of 3 with ease if you time it right. The damage flying around is just waaay too much and every single BG is ending with everyone having a lot of deaths.

wheem_ESO · May 2018

Thogard wrote: »

There’s a huge influx of damage, that’s true.

But all this new damage that’s showing up is purgeable. Trying to outheal it isn’t the play.

Sloads and bleeds are the new norm... but they’re pug stomping tools and would never work on a good group with access to purify.

I've not done enough premade-vs-premade to say for sure, but I think Sload's and bleeds might still be strong vs a lot of premade teams, as long as the DOT users are also a premade. You can only use the Ritual's synergy once every 20 seconds I think? That still leaves a pretty decent amount of uptime in many situations.

If we assume that 3 people all proc gold quality Sload's on one target at the exact same time, and the target instantly activates a waiting Ritual synergy, he/she is still going to take 2,559 damage up front (since Sload's does damage once when applied). After that, they'll have a 6 second window of taking 0 damage from Sload's, then be vulnerable to it again for 14 seconds before being able to cleanse a second time. If we just throw away the extra 2 seconds, and assume 2 full duration procs per DPS character attacking them, Sload's would total 35,826 damage over 12 seconds. And that's straight up unmitigated hit point damage, so no amount of shielding, blocking, or dodge rolling is going to help you (unless you dodge the ability that would have applied the DOT proc).

Datolite · May 2018

Feels a bit squishier on all accounts in BGs. Deathmatch is just people blowing up all over the place, and most teams are in desperate need of a dedicated healer. Good luck finding that in pugs though, better slot those defensive sets.

ecru · May 2018

health pools are about half the size they should be atm