Why we don't have a global AH?

Raraaku · May 2018

they want a trading system that makes ESO distinct from other mmorpg

I really need to paste into my signature because I say it so many times, but I believe there is an effective way to create an "auction" house within the current trade guild system.

First off, at first I wasn't so sure about the trade guild system, but I have come around to liking it and I don't want to see it being abolished or changed in any major way.

Trading guilds should be allowed to open their kiosks to non-member sellers. The guilds would be allowed to set a % tariff on goods sold by non-members, in which the guild takes an additional cut from any non-member sale that takes place. Trading guilds would have the power to remove any item from non-members (via permissions) and have that item returned immediately to the seller; this would allow the trading guild inventory control and protect it's interests from those who might be under-selling their members.

This system could allow both trading guilds and independent merchants the opportunity to make money. Prime locations can charge a higher % tariff due to traffic, and thus the guild has more gold to bid on the bidding system. Meanwhile less central trading hubs can charge a lower % tariff, providing an incentive for independent sellers to list their goods at their locations, all the while adding an additional revenue stream so that they can be more competitive in bidding for better locations.

I think non-guild members could have their non-guild listings reduced to about 10, further incentive to join a trading guild. The trick is to find a way to provide enough of an incentive for independent sellers to join trading guilds while also still allowing them to stay independent and still make gold if they wish to be.

AlnilamE · May 2018

they want a trading system that makes ESO distinct from other mmorpg

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Other: Centralized Auction houses are a big time saver and are most demanding by the majority of players that play mmo's.

Black Desert Online would like a word with you. Camping the marketplace is it's own mini-game there.

srfrogg23 · May 2018

they want a trading system that makes ESO distinct from other mmorpg

I firmly believe that Zos wanted their trading/selling system to be different. I think it was done with the best of intentions. But, I don’t think it is a good kind of different.

Players really shouldn’t have to ask other players for permission to sell their stuff, which you have to do either as a guild leader or a guild member. You either have to get enough people to give you enough of their gold to be able to bid on a trader every week or you have to get someone to invite you to a guild with a trader. Too much hassle for something so simplistic.

Elsonso · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

There are a ton if reasons, some listed, and some not.

1) technical issues - Yes, it is a lot of work to do a real time trading between thousands of players simultaneously. It can be done, but the game has to be designed for it at the very core. I don't think ESO was designed for it, given how guild banks work.

2) It is different from other MMO games, and refreshingly so. I think this is deliberate. Back then, they weren't just making an MMO clone, and I respect that. There does not need to be an AH to be an MMO, and ESO takes advantage of this.

3) Lore. Commerce in Elder Scrolls happens at the local level, not the global level. They tossed a lot of what makes Elder Scrolls, well, Elder Scrolls, out the window when they made this game. I am glad this was not one of them. They found a good blend between local sales and multi-player.

If we erase the bias options from the poll, we have room for other reasons that are valid.

The Auction House is a game. I know that a lot of people don't see it that way, but it is a game within the MMO. Guild Traders are a different game, and actually one that has a few more dimensions to it than the Auction House game. There are more moving parts, and it is more of a co-op game than the Auction House. The Auction House leans heavily towards being a solo game. Granted, multi-player goes against the Elder Scrolls tenet of single player, but I think this works well since it denies nothing to the traditional Elder Scrolls player. They can simply ignore it all.

The Guild Traders are the number one gold sink in the game. If anything were to replace the guild traders, something else would have to happen to replace the gold sink. Chances are, this would be met with much gnashing of teeth.

I am impressed by the Guild Trader system. It is something to replace the venerable auction house. Most MMOs just seem to plop a variation of it in their game for no other reason than other games have them. I see the guild traders as sort of giving the traditional stale MMO tropes a finger, so I am hoping that my next MMO is one where they get used.

Of course, I can't talk about Guild Traders without saying that ZOS never finishes anything. If they had finished guild traders, a lot of the problems that players are having would not exist.

Edziu · May 2018

they don't like the idea that players can always get everything they want from AH too easily

with normal AH you will fast find and buy what you want which means this guild traders system is like time soaking content just to hold player longer by forcing him to running through many zones wasting his time and creating an illusion of "more things/content to do" keeping you away from doing/ending your present things what you want

(and please dont ansewer me about TTC etc because its not in base game, its addon which you need to have then or you need to use broswer for this which also isnt in base game, its just future added by players and not everyone are using this)

notimetocare · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

Global Ah blows. Bots and price fixing slaughter the economy. A handful of people dominate the market making buyers suffer.

generalmyrick · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

too many of us are benefitting from the current system thus preventing people from making the "proper" moral decision and jumping on the AH bandwagon.

simply = why should i give up having a premium selling spot for an equal spot? ha! (followed by slobbery "im a 666k dps" statement)

before "you can do it too, youre just (insert attempted witty "mean" word here)" guy jumps in here

> the current problem with console guild trading right now is because of that thinking. NOW GUILD TRADERS COST RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS OF GOLD. Again, ---> more people wanting fewer spots = rising guild fees = rising guild trader bids.

generalmyrick · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

Pixel_Zealot wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP has not provided the real answer for us to choose from.

The answer is Zos chose to work with a guild trader system. After launch they did a major tweak to it. Since then it has been clear the current system has successfully provided ESO a vibrant and healthy economy which of course is the goal.

It's not even the same light as a "Healthy" economy. Even a centralized auction house has a more vibrant and healthy economy than this failed garbage.

ESO clearly has a very healthy economy. It has served ESO and the community very well which is why it has lasted as long.

One thing for certain, no one has provided a worthy reason for changing it.

The guild trader system works okay. It's good for immersion and having an in-game, community run, coin sink. It's bad user experience, a terrible barrier to entry, and very bad for the buyer. It takes forever to find the right item you're searching for. Your argument could be, then download an addon. See, why are add-ons necessary for an in-game system to work properly? What about the console peasants who can't shove every addon into their game? So the current trade system is not buyer friendly. You have to be a part of a guild to be able to participate in the trade, which comes with requirements because there are already too many guilds that want to bid for your trader spot. Don't make the requirements? You get cut out. Which is not very user-friendly when you're an active trader in 5 different trade guilds. So the current system is not user-friendly.

"Lasted as long"? Every other MMO that has been living with a healthy economy before ESO was even an idea has a central AH. That argument couldn't be more invalid.

Everyone has provided a worthy reason for changing it. Just look at any other MMO with a Healthy economy that has lasted much longer than ESO has existed.

these are excellent points!

i just want to a question for thought!

when the player base declines, someday...

what will happen to this system? ;-)

Rawkan · May 2018

they hold some insane hatred towards the idea of global AH

They want a system in which a select few control the market, this being the same people that run most of the big trading guilds and buyout the competition.

Odnoc · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

A combination of 2 and 5. A global auction house makes price manipulation too easy. If you're trying to fix a broken system, sticking with that same system wont work.

Beardimus · May 2018

they want a trading system that makes ESO distinct from other mmorpg

Also cos we don't want one.

Tyrobag · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

Because they don't want to take a chainsaw to the market. If they add an auction house, you will have people undercutting prices on a significantly higher level. Then the undercut price becomes the expected price, then that gets undercut too. This happens already, but most guilds try to prevent it and the smaller scale keeps it from happening as often. If the market drops like that, people wont be able to afford things like housing and furniture. Then we get the issue of "old money", people who earned their millions before the collapse would still have enough to keep on buying whatever they want, whereas newer players will be unable to ever reach that level. Things like that will frustrate the newer/poorer players causing them to leave the game, which means ZoS looses money.

All in all, its not worth the effort just to save you a little footwork.

Kikke · May 2018

they want a trading system that makes ESO distinct from other mmorpg

There are so many reasons to keep what we have, and no obvious reason for us to ever want a central AH.

Why would you wreck what we have just to put in place systems that failed in WoW, GW2, BDO, SWOTR and co?
Anyone saying 'NO' to a central AH knows this, and this is the reason we say 'NO'

If it's realy that bad for you that you feel that it NEEDS to be changed. Then it's time for YOU too change game. Enjoy!

[Edit to remove bait]

Elsonso · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

Edziu wrote: »

with normal AH you will fast find and buy what you want which means this guild traders system is like time soaking content just to hold player longer by forcing him to running through many zones wasting his time and creating an illusion of "more things/content to do" keeping you away from doing/ending your present things what you want

I don't know if you have noticed, but ZOS does not favor shortcuts that are not paid for with Crowns. (That isn't intended to sound cynical, but if I don't put the part about Crowns, someone else will) ESO is, even on the best days, considered grindy by many players. ZOS knows this. ZOS appears to be not all that concerned about this. They want things in the game to take time.

I am fairly sure that they see ESO as a journey, not an afternoon outing. Many of the things that people grind are intended to be earned over time through normal play doing other things. That would definitely include gear crafting and crafting leveling, horse riding, as well as several of the achievements. ESO is a game where you are expected to spend hundreds of hours, if not thousands, doing it all. (Or... pay with Crowns to shave some of that time off)

I am fine with this, but someone who is impatient and has to have things now will be understandably frustrated. It isn't very "casual vacation player/nomad player/power MMO tourist" friendly, where someone just wants to swoop in, play the game for a few hours, then move onto the next game.

Everything that can be sold in this game is available at a Guild Trader, somewhere, at some time. Where ZOS has a concern that an important item might not be available enough, they stock the item with a merchant type NPC. For everything else, "waiting is".

generalmyrick wrote: »

i just want to a question for thought!

when the player base declines, someday...

what will happen to this system?

This system does scale. At least as well as the Auction House. All they have to do is remove some of the guild trader kiosks if they want to keep the trader supply limited. Of course, that requires that they pay attention to the game at a time when that is probably the last thing they want to do. It is not wanting to pay attention to the game that is more of a concern.

Tabbycat · May 2018

they want a trading system that makes ESO distinct from other mmorpg

Probably a combination of factors.

The current system provides a huge gold sink by requiring guilds to pay enormous fees to rent trading spots each week.

The current system is different than what other MMO's have.

The current system prevents one player from monopolizing the market although it does not prevent guilds from monopolizing the best locations.

Peekachu99 · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

It absolutely comes down to technical expertise and implimentation, given the history of bugs with Activity Finder and the basic QoL stuff that’s missing from their “we want to be different” system. I believe they’re doubling down on that nonsense till they find a way to tackle whatever issues the engine is giving them (to prevent basic search functions and the like). ZOS has some really talented people, but these things take a long time to solve. You’ll notice you haven’t heard a peep from ZOS on the marketplace or player trading in AGES because they’re internally working on solutions, too.

Given the crown > gold store gifting hitting servers, they’re going to have to take a serious, long look at the economy real soon and they know it.

Elsonso · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

Peekachu99 wrote: »

You’ll notice you haven’t heard a peep from ZOS on the marketplace or player trading in AGES because they’re internally working on solutions, too.

Maybe, but the Auction House is the only system that I know of where they put the issue to rest. We can talk about it in here, but they have said that they are not going to do it. That is why they haven't said anything in "ages".

Azurya · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

the only reason we don´t have an GA, is quite simple:
we have about 10 Million players and just 2 MEGASERVERS were they all are around,
if we had just an GA, for these MILLIONS of players, it would take you hours to find the things you are looking for!!!

it is now quite often a pain to find those things you are looking for, and just now we have guildtraders, but the best are already overloaded.

Your numbers are wrong: there are (according to Zenimax) approximately 1 mio regular players and they are evenly spread across 6 servers (2 regions and 3 platforms).

we just had a 10 million players event, remember!
and even then, on a WoW server were never that much players, therefor they had numerous servers and a better performance....

Elsonso · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

Azurya wrote: »

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

the only reason we don´t have an GA, is quite simple:
we have about 10 Million players and just 2 MEGASERVERS were they all are around,
if we had just an GA, for these MILLIONS of players, it would take you hours to find the things you are looking for!!!

it is now quite often a pain to find those things you are looking for, and just now we have guildtraders, but the best are already overloaded.

Your numbers are wrong: there are (according to Zenimax) approximately 1 mio regular players and they are evenly spread across 6 servers (2 regions and 3 platforms).

we just had a 10 million players event, remember!
and even then, on a WoW server were never that much players, therefor they had numerous servers and a better performance....

10 million total players, a number that continues to grow, since it is a total, and can never go down.

Motherball · May 2018

technical issues

Varana wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

Thats a bit dramatic, imo. PC has mods that basically do the same thing as an AH and the sky isnt falling. They could just add the same functionality as those mods into the base game and call it a day.

They're not doing basically the same thing. These add-ons are imperfect by nature - sure, you can see what the standard selling price of an item is, but only in the guilds you're in, or what people demand who have not sold, yet. You can find specific listed items - but only with a random delay, only if someone actually uploaded the guild, and so on. There's lots of items selling all the time without ever hitting the TTC database, or being sold already when they appear there.

That's not basically an auction house, that would be like ZOS programming an auction house that deliberately teases you with some information but eventually, keeps you in the dark.

You can search for items, prices, and even buy and sell items to players by mail without using a guild trader by using mods. Thats basically the same thing as an AH in my opinion. Sure it isnt perfect, but how many serious traders on PC do you think do not use mods? If Zos just implemented those mods into the game, maybe both sides could be happy. People who like guild traders can still use them and those that prefer to cut out the middle man can do that.

Cpt_Teemo · May 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Other: Centralized Auction houses are a big time saver and are most demanding by the majority of players that play mmo's.

Black Desert Online would like a word with you. Camping the marketplace is it's own mini-game there.

True but atleast you don't need to run around like a chicken with its head cut off to every freaking zone in the game, also you can put in buy orders for the majority of the items in BDO anyway so you can still do that as well

Sevalaricgirl · May 2018

I have different opinions (please comment)

Pure and simple, they are afraid of gold sellers. Trading guilds was a pathetic idea. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer and there is no in between. Sounds like American politics (and I'm American).

Cpt_Teemo · May 2018

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

Pure and simple, they are afraid of gold sellers. Trading guilds was a pathetic idea. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer and there is no in between. Sounds like American politics (and I'm American).

^ Centralized Market is a much healthier market system than this crap tbh.

Spottswoode · May 2018

There are 75000 possible slots for players (give or take an extra thousand) who are in trading guilds at any one time. I have two of them.
The market is ludicrous.

badmojo · May 2018

lore-wise and role playing factors

It wouldnt feel right.....too much of a videogame mechanic for a role playing game like ESO.

Just be happy NPC vedors dont have a limited supply of gold like in the past games.

Colecovision · May 2018

they hold some insane hatred towards the idea of global AH

I picked a silly answer because I don't really know. But I'm 100% sure that the merchant taking your money and then e-mailing your gear to you after you change zones is not lore friendly. It's not possible to be less immersive than that and it doesn't remotely resemble picking up an item from a traveling merchant. Scrolling through 100 listings of daedric thrones and holiday drops is just as bad.

Lore is the only answer here that I can say is just plain wrong.

idk · May 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP has not provided the real answer for us to choose from.

The answer is Zos chose to work with a guild trader system. After launch they did a major tweak to it. Since then it has been clear the current system has successfully provided ESO a vibrant and healthy economy which of course is the goal.

It's not even the same light as a "Healthy" economy. Even a centralized auction house has a more vibrant and healthy economy than this failed garbage.

You have not demonstrated it is not healthy. Considering it has done so well and the economy is vibrant and robust there healthy is a good word to describe it.

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

Pure and simple, they are afraid of gold sellers. Trading guilds was a pathetic idea. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer and there is no in between. Sounds like American politics (and I'm American).

^ Centralized Market is a much healthier market system than this crap tbh.

Not necessarily and not something we will see in this game.

Granted, it is ok that you favor such a system, but I suggest getting used to the guild trader system in ESO since that is what we have and it will not be changing.

idk · May 2018

generalmyrick wrote: »

Pixel_Zealot wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP has not provided the real answer for us to choose from.

The answer is Zos chose to work with a guild trader system. After launch they did a major tweak to it. Since then it has been clear the current system has successfully provided ESO a vibrant and healthy economy which of course is the goal.

It's not even the same light as a "Healthy" economy. Even a centralized auction house has a more vibrant and healthy economy than this failed garbage.

ESO clearly has a very healthy economy. It has served ESO and the community very well which is why it has lasted as long.

One thing for certain, no one has provided a worthy reason for changing it.

The guild trader system works okay. It's good for immersion and having an in-game, community run, coin sink. It's bad user experience, a terrible barrier to entry, and very bad for the buyer. It takes forever to find the right item you're searching for. Your argument could be, then download an addon. See, why are add-ons necessary for an in-game system to work properly? What about the console peasants who can't shove every addon into their game? So the current trade system is not buyer friendly. You have to be a part of a guild to be able to participate in the trade, which comes with requirements because there are already too many guilds that want to bid for your trader spot. Don't make the requirements? You get cut out. Which is not very user-friendly when you're an active trader in 5 different trade guilds. So the current system is not user-friendly.

"Lasted as long"? Every other MMO that has been living with a healthy economy before ESO was even an idea has a central AH. That argument couldn't be more invalid.

Everyone has provided a worthy reason for changing it. Just look at any other MMO with a Healthy economy that has lasted much longer than ESO has existed.

these are excellent points!

i just want to a question for thought!

when the player base declines, someday...

what will happen to this system? ;-)

That is rather irrelevant at this point. Long time away.

AlnilamE · May 2018

they want a trading system that makes ESO distinct from other mmorpg

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Other: Centralized Auction houses are a big time saver and are most demanding by the majority of players that play mmo's.

Black Desert Online would like a word with you. Camping the marketplace is it's own mini-game there.

True but atleast you don't need to run around like a chicken with its head cut off to every freaking zone in the game, also you can put in buy orders for the majority of the items in BDO anyway so you can still do that as well

You don't have to do that here either.

And for sought after items, like Memory Fragments and Hard/Sharp shards, you can only pre-order small quantities at a time, while you need a lot of them.

And other items have pre-order prices that are 10x the list value, which also makes it inaccessible to casual players. And I'm talking about crafting mats here, not boss gear or anything like that.

Of course, they are happy to sell you as many maids as you would like so you don't have to run back to town every time something you want gets listed...

AnonomissX · May 2018

Motherball wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

Thats a bit dramatic, imo. PC has mods that basically do the same thing as an AH and the sky isnt falling. They could just add the same functionality as those mods into the base game and call it a day.

They're not doing basically the same thing. These add-ons are imperfect by nature - sure, you can see what the standard selling price of an item is, but only in the guilds you're in, or what people demand who have not sold, yet. You can find specific listed items - but only with a random delay, only if someone actually uploaded the guild, and so on. There's lots of items selling all the time without ever hitting the TTC database, or being sold already when they appear there.

That's not basically an auction house, that would be like ZOS programming an auction house that deliberately teases you with some information but eventually, keeps you in the dark.

You can search for items, prices, and even buy and sell items to players by mail without using a guild trader by using mods. Thats basically the same thing as an AH in my opinion. Sure it isnt perfect, but how many serious traders on PC do you think do not use mods? If Zos just implemented those mods into the game, maybe both sides could be happy. People who like guild traders can still use them and those that prefer to cut out the middle man can do that.

No, I cannot use an add-on or mod. I am on an Xbox One, NA server. How about you think before you speak.