Hypocrysy of ESO's community
Getern
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Also one of the reasons why ESO is losing quality. Back in a day we used to have Veteran Ranks, roughly 2 years ago. While they were fullfiling their role for gear progession, were also not very liked by lazy community, which is like 80%? Just assumption. What we also had back in day was diversity. What I mean by that, is most classes used to be good at certain things. Point is over last years we were losing those values due to the fact that everyone on forums bitching for having same abilities for different classes. I have seen a lot of that. But all those people crawing removing class system same time has 10+ alts. What do you need them for tho, while u want unification? To do exacly same thing on every single one of them?
The worst part of all it, is the fact that Zose is actually slowly nerfing all class'es flag abilities when they can. With approval of community...
The worst part of all it, is the fact that Zose is actually slowly nerfing all class'es flag abilities when they can. With approval of community...
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Rawkan✭✭✭✭✭This is an issue for almost every single popular MMO these days. Classes being reworked into "everyone can do everything". It's not accepted anymore that classes have different strengths and weaknesses, which removes the identity of the class.
I have no idea why anyone would spend that much time on alts to be honest. I can understand having one for each class, but people with like 15+ alts are complaining about "the grind" as if the game was made exclusively for people who want to do the exact same thing 15 times.
[edited to remove comment and quote]Edited by ZOS_JesC on May 27, 2018 1:47PM18 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is an issue for almost every single popular MMO these days. Classes being reworked into "everyone can do everything". It's not accepted anymore that classes have different strengths and weaknesses, which removes the identity of the class.
I have no idea why anyone would spend that much time on alts to be honest. I can understand having one for each class, but people with like 15+ alts are complaining about "the grind" as if the game was made exclusively for people who want to do the exact same thing 15 times.
[edited to remove comment and quote]
It's near incoherent and it's basicly just blaming the community for all the games ills.
Do we have a hand in it? Yes, but not nearly as much as the OP is suggesting.
Edited by ZOS_JesC on May 27, 2018 1:48PM7 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Some people want the classes to be unique. Certain classes are best at certain roles, end of story.
Some people don't want their class to be pidgeonholed into a single role and thus be perpetually behind every other class in other roles.
Add that to the fact that ZOS doesn't want any class to be hands-down the BIS for anything and you see ZOS moving away from class uniqueness/pidgeon-holed roles towards a balance where a certain may be best, but the other classes can perform that role adequately.7 -
Darrett✭✭✭✭Unique doesn’t mean shoehorned into a role. You can perform various tasks in a unique fashion. For example, a sorcerer could tank by making use of damage shields, while DKs can tank while making use of mitigation abilities. They both get to do the job, but in a different fashion.
The issue we have now is that there is too much crossover in certain areas. People seem to want all classes to be the same, whereas each class should be given a core function that can be modified I various ways through your build to accomplish the end goal. This may lead to certain classes being better than others at doing one job in a pure fashion, such as a MagSorc ranged DD, as that would be matching the class function to the role, but they wouldn’t provide additional utility. A Templar set up for the same role might only provide 80% of the DPS directly, but would buff the group to bring group damage up to the same overall output.10 -
Getern✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.3 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
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Adapt and learn your way through the changes. Also how would you call this addition to flag magsorc ability?The worst part of all it, is the fact that Zose is actually slowly nerfing all class'es flag abilities when they can.
•Storm Calling •Lightning Flood (Lightning Splash morph): This morph now also increases the damage done by approximately 15%.
PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
Templars are in the same boat as dragonknights.
Just like dragonknights are the best tanks, Templars are the best healers. If Templars are every going to be anything more than healers, other classes have to be made better healers, which means taking away unique Templar healer abilities.
Plus there was the whole "Nerf Templar so Warden healers look good" thing ZOS did for Morrowind, but that's a whole 'nother thing.0 -
Nolic1✭✭✭I get it but good luck getting others to hear your one voice out of the many screaming other things.Sherman from Sherman's Gaming
Youtube content creator that is dedicated to the Casual and Roleplay community for News, Lets Talks, Guides, Help and character builds.
Youtube channel link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw1 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
Monopolizing a role is not "unique". It's crap design if you don't have enough classes to diversify the role because people get tired of repetition real quick when there's no alternative to break the cycle and in a game that preached "Play as you want" there really is no excuse for it. It's especially damning when mechanics and such are designed around these classes specifically to fill in those roles only. Trials were impossible to do without a Templar Healer for so long because Stamina sustain was so important and they were the only class that could give stamina back. That's not unique, that's shoehorning a class to be the only option.
There is infinitely better ways to make a class unique that doesn't shoehorn it as BiS for a certain role.Edited by Silver_Strider on May 26, 2018 6:34PMArgonian forever5 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.7 -
kaiage✭✭✭custimazation! woohoo!an anonymous EP nightblade and Templar...
also; a warden and nightblade of the aldmeri flavour.
"there's a dragon with matches, that's loose on the town..."
"it's no easy road, this struggle and strife... we find ourselves, in the show of life" - tab @ the tab
If you've been fallen by my steel or blade - sorry there's no tomorrow for yeh!
Kidding;) don't take it so bad, I've been doing this a long time0 -
Kuwhar✭✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Yeah I enjoy my Templar tank, haven't had any complaints or kicks.1 -
Pendrillion✭✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
The thing is that we should seriously get rid of classes... I understand that ZOS still decided to build content around the holy trinity of DPS Tank Healer... But in my opinion that is something the MMO competitive community insists on. Because it makes it easier to have a designated person to blame if you wipe... And maybe some people like to compartmentalize the way they are used to.
Personally I would have loved something more open like Single player TES games provided. And don't bother... I have had heard every argument for and against that in the past 5 years. Also what really irks me to the max is the reason that we tried everything from hard and soft caps diminishing returns and damage mitigation buffs. But it is still possible to choose ONE damn Attribute pool and OUTCLASSING EVERYONE. Except for those who do copy your style... AND THEY DESIGN THE GAME AROUND THAT NOW... And you can outrun everything else by potentials just in focusing on one of your ressource pools... Well except Health... I mean you can invest in health... but you can only tank with a high health pool... Apparently...
3 attributes 5 classes and hundreds of abilities a majority of which are never used or deemed viable than the damn FOTM or META that comes along built by a streamer... What the hell... THATs the hypocrisy... And thats housemade. You don't need to resort to finger pointing and screaming at casuals... What kills a game is rampant elitism and leaving people behind the curve because they decide not playing by the imposed rules of your damn min max build. That affects EVERYTHING... Make itemzation ten times harder than it should be it leaves a wake of useless sets, cut off the Crafters from useable builds for endgame and inflated the economy...
I am so glad that we got the Housing... Its a grind fest and a "power"-creep in itself... But still way more rewarding than worrying either if my build gets nerfed or buffed next month or if I am allowed to queue with my hybrid DK or Templar or what have you...
Thats my "two cents"
Get a grip all and stew in your own created mess... I go furnish my next house...
Edited by Pendrillion on May 26, 2018 7:00PM3 -
Getern✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Point is that the game used to be like that. And that, was beautiful. If u ask me, game was doing fine. In fact much better than it does now.Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Yeah I enjoy my Templar tank, haven't had any complaints or kicks.
Okay, but do u chain? Do u keep entire aggro in optimum area? Depends who u are dealing with, thats the roles u are suppose to fulfill. Considering that One Tamriel's mentality with effectivness died long ago, I am not suprised no one is complaining.1 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Point is that the game used to be like that. And that, was beautiful. If u ask me, game was doing fine. In fact much better than it does now.Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Yeah I enjoy my Templar tank, haven't had any complaints or kicks.
Okay, but do u chain? Do u keep entire aggro in optimum area? Depends who u are dealing with, thats the roles u are suppose to fulfill. Considering that One Tamriel's mentality with effectivness died long ago, I am not suprised no one is complaining.
I'm quite sure there are more players now than it was in your ideally setup version of the game. There are less HC raider, I agree, but they are always a minority, and if the casuals leave the game, it's dead.2 -
Getern✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Point is that the game used to be like that. And that, was beautiful. If u ask me, game was doing fine. In fact much better than it does now.Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Yeah I enjoy my Templar tank, haven't had any complaints or kicks.
Okay, but do u chain? Do u keep entire aggro in optimum area? Depends who u are dealing with, thats the roles u are suppose to fulfill. Considering that One Tamriel's mentality with effectivness died long ago, I am not suprised no one is complaining.
I'm quite sure there are more players now than it was in your ideally setup version of the game. There are less HC raider, I agree, but they are always a minority, and if the casuals leave the game, it's dead.
For me the game is dead already by being left just for casuals.5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The assumption is incorrect. One of the problems with assumptions.
By the end of the first month of this games release I had two characters into the vet ranks. By the end of the second month both were capped.
I expect that would not be considered lazy.
Even at it's original v10 I thought it was an absurd and meaningless design. It seems absurd that leveling from 1 to 50 were rewarded with having to level from v1 to v10 which was about twice as much.
That followed by a meaningless increase in the level cap after a mere one month to v12 then again before the end of the year to v14. When they made v16 the cap it was a complete joke. To worst leveling design in any MMORPG I have ever seen.
By this time Zos had clued it that it was an extremely short sighted idea to have a two tiered lvling system where the second tier was several times the effort of the first. It was just ridiculous.
However, the aspect of the vet ranks has nothing to do with what OP is attempting to say here. He is not complaining that he no longer has to grind XP for every character to get to v16.
I think he should rewrite his OP so it is clearer.Edited by idk on May 26, 2018 9:29PM0 -
Charliff1966✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Point is that the game used to be like that. And that, was beautiful. If u ask me, game was doing fine. In fact much better than it does now.Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Yeah I enjoy my Templar tank, haven't had any complaints or kicks.
Okay, but do u chain? Do u keep entire aggro in optimum area? Depends who u are dealing with, thats the roles u are suppose to fulfill. Considering that One Tamriel's mentality with effectivness died long ago, I am not suprised no one is complaining.
I'm quite sure there are more players now than it was in your ideally setup version of the game. There are less HC raider, I agree, but they are always a minority, and if the casuals leave the game, it's dead.
For me the game is dead already by being left just for casuals.
Choice between hardcore or casual isnt that difficult for any developer. Try pantheon when its going live, might be more of your taste.2 -
Chaos2088✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think the mission is to play any class to any role....with the final result that each class/role mix up would be a slightly different playstyle than the other.
If you want a fixed class doing only one role.....I don't think the future of this game is for you, not throwing shade just stating there has been alot of chat i have comer across lately of this subject....and well I am glad that ESO is heading in that direction. Why be like every other MMO??@Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Murp, don't wanna derail thread I supposeEdited by Waffennacht on May 27, 2018 11:05PM2 -
FireCowCommando✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the OP, class abilities that were too strong at one specific thing have been nerfed since Worbel took over combat lead. I don't remember every change, but the repeated nerfs to templars healing is one example. Rather than taking a look at how healing works in this game ZoS removes the strength of BoL to bring it in line.
This is not a bad way to approach any problem with regards to balance, but when used too frequently on too many abilities that are often considered class defining it becomes a serious issue.
A second example: [Templar] Cleansing ritual used to purge projectiles mid flight. This was taken away not because it was OP, but because the Developers believed it made combat feel weird. The enemy was shooting at me but there was no damage?! The limitations of the UI at that time left some players confused why there attack didn't connect, since this was unique to templar defensive PvP. (We know the 'why' in this situation since it was once explained to us by the developers themselves)
There are a great deal of examples between all the classes over the years in this direction, it would take too long for every ability on all classes. But, OP does have a point.0 -
I want to be able to do everything on every class... in different ways from every other class.
Easiest example I can think of is gap closing.
You can have:
A leap
A blink
A charge
A sprint
All offer slightly different flavor and slightly different utility, while accomplishing the same goal.
Conversely, I can think of multiple ways for classes to be effectively the same, performance wise, at healing, etc.
You can have:
Shields
Direct heals
HoTs
AoE heals
Same for damage, and what I listed isn't exhaustive in the least. There are tons, if not infinite, variations of all of these to be had that can simultaneously be different and result in the same performance.
If your idea of class uniqueness is an IWIN button in a situation you're predestined to shine in, you need to reexamine your philosophy on game design. You just want to supplement a lack of skill with a niche so you still feel powerful, regardless of if you're actually good or bad at the game.
There's more than enough diversity in skill design for them to be able to make classes perform the same while also keeping diversity, but you constantly have scrubs touting the "but that's too hard and they'll never get it right so they need homogenization if that's what you want" line that bad/lazy MMO devs have been feeding us since... forever.
No, it's only hard and necessary if the devs focus is like 5% balancing and 95% other stuff instead of 50% balancing and 50% other stuff like I think is appropriate.Edited by b.bredfeldtub17_ESO on May 27, 2018 2:19AM2 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I played this at release.. I left after a month.. It was terrible everyone hated the Vet ranks and tbh it was garbage.
Shoot ahead to today and yes ESO still has issues but its astronomically better than this game was at release, tbh my only real disgust with ESO these days is the crown store and the fact that they seem to only listen to those insane min maxers..6 -
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Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe the plan is to buff a different class every soo often to strong arm people into having more ALTs. More ALTs means more opportunity to make $$. The base game died about 2 years ago. Now its all about dlc to keep people spending money.2 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Dragonknights need to be unique (aka Dragonknights need to be tanks) VS I want to end-game DPS on my MagDK" in a nutshell.
Dragonknights were made for tanking and still thats the only acceptable class as tank for me. Fact that they do decent DPS is different thing. While DOTs classes should in fact do more damage, tho only slightly more than burst builds. Altough, are there any real burst build around? Not anymore. Nightblade and Sorceror is default DPS class, thats how it should be.
What I mostly mean by entire thread can be explained on example of Templar.
Repentance, iconic ability, one of few making Templars default healers. But hey, we want other class to not stay back too much, so we are nerfing the skill, so healing on other classes can be viable too. What kind of logic is this?
Not even mention changes to Shards, uniqness died with giving same effect to Orbs.
So I think we can summarize your opinion: every tank should be a dragon knight, every melee dps should be a nightblade, every ranged dps should be a sorcerer, every healer should be a templar and every warden should go to Oblivion.
Nice. It would be a game which would be much less popular than the current ESO, and on the road to the death. I really hope you don't work as a game designer.
Point is that the game used to be like that. And that, was beautiful. If u ask me, game was doing fine. In fact much better than it does now.
At what point in ESO's lifespan are you referring to because I remember everything pre Thieves Guild as pretty awful. Gear drops so rare that getting a full set of anything was a miracle (and the majority of them were really bad anyways), zones that were more dead than a funeral home, even world travel being gated behind Main Story progression, which in itself was locked behind level progression, were not high point of the game at all IMO.Argonian forever4 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
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Enlighten me about flag abilities. For me it's an ability that costs 2,9k magicka and can be easily spammed and deals a massive aoe damage: 3,5k-4k base (non-crit, unbuffed) damage per sec for 6 secs (or 3,5k dmg per sec for 10 secs).Do u get what flag abilities are? In case of that skill it would be the other morph, the fact Liquid Lighning hasnt been nerfed yet is suprising. Nevertheless, morph still will be weaker than it counterpart.
PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."0
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