The Psijic Order Questline

zyk · May 2018

The story was ok, the Auger was interesting, but everything else? Wow. I am struggling to find words to adequately express how mundane it was.

It alternates between very easy and repetitious scavenger hunts and quests that involve traveling to a waypoint and following a series of very easy to see markers. Both are completely mindless timesinks. It's capped off by a trip through base zone delve and an effortless fight.

The scavenger hunts are the equivalent of treasure maps Crafting Surveys, except easier. That is, the map mechanic is the same, there are no harvesting nodes.

The first scavenger hunt is ok because it's in Summerset, so it synergizes with the exploration of new content. But the rest takes place in the base game zones which almost everyone -- except brand new players -- should be sick of already. Especially those of us who have done the shard/lorebook thing with alts.

Has ZOS watched us collect shards and lorebooks and reached the conclusion that this is strong game design? Do they think we enjoy it? Everyone I know considers those steps in leveling an alt to be painful.

Basically, this quest line is the equivalent of collecting 60 treasure maps Crafting Surveys, 51 of which are in base game zones, with 8 follow-the-marker timesinks in base game zones.

Now if this was merely a sidequest for a housing collectable or a costume, it could be easily bypassed for those not into this sort of thing and would be no big deal. However, in this case, the reward is for an important Skill line that players will want on frequently played characters.

-1000/10

VaranisArano · May 2018

I thought it was pretty fun to do with friends, and much nicer than grinding dolmens for the Fighters Guild and much less running around that hunting lore books.

Then again, I'm spoiled on lore books since I'm on PC and can use add-ons.

idk · May 2018

And this is very much a duplicate thread. There have been a variety of threads on the subject with none giving quite the unique viewpoint that would make having it's own thread important.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · May 2018

Between this questline and the main questline I can easily see why the Septim dynasty stopped having anything to do with the Psijics.

SpiderCultist · May 2018

tell us how interesting is the Augur once you've fully unlocked the skill line for 3 characters at least... meat-brains

zyk · May 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

I thought it was pretty fun to do with friends, and much nicer than grinding dolmens for the Fighters Guild and much less running around that hunting lore books.

Then again, I'm spoiled on lore books since I'm on PC and can use add-ons.

I'm not against content like this for people who enjoy it, but I don't think a major Skill Line should be tied to it.

I thought the Lost Library of Andule in Morrowind was a much better implementation because it was something that only had to be done once and the reward was compelling without being something every competitive player felt they must have. Plus it was entirely within Vvardenfell which was still new and interesting to me at the time.

In contrast, this is something I'll feel compelled to do on multiple characters which I'm dreading. If it was something that could be completed in Summerset, it wouldn't be so bad as that content is still new and interesting. I'm completely sick of the base content from leveling alts and the holiday events.

It's funny that you say you enjoyed completing it with a friend because the Craglorn segment reminded me of the original implementation of Craglorn which featured combat that was fun to do with friends. It made me a little sad that all overland content is so easy, that I'd never consider questing with another player anymore.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2018

It really is just awful gameplay. 2 things you said:

"The scavenger hunts are the equivalent of treasure maps, except easier."

Easier and NO LOOT. If they made these give loot like psijic portals, nobody would be complaining (even if their drop rate was reduced). If I am gonna follow a carrot, I need a bite at the end.

"Now if this was merely a sidequest for a housing collectable or a costume, it could be easily bypassed for those not into this sort of thing and would be no big deal."

Exactly. If this was for a collectible, and you only had to do it once per account, there would be no rage on the forums. Instead, we have a very powerful skill line locked behind what can only be described as an intentional grindy time-suck.

This is perhaps the worst piece of PVE content in this game. It is just bad gameplay, any way you slice it. People should honestly lose their jobs over this. If you think this is good gameplay, I dont want you designing my games.

idk · May 2018

SpiderCultist wrote: »

tell us how interesting is the Augur once you've fully unlocked the skill line for 3 characters at least... meat-brains

How interesting is any quest line in any MMO after the third time doing it? Exactly.

lihentian · May 2018

if we travel to hidden place open time rift enter it, defeat epic enemy and seal the rift. it would be an awesome quest line... but just running back and forth occasionally clicking on black mist doesn't really felt much epic...

over all the entire quest line is very repetitive and lazy.. basically the entire quest is just running around doing some boring leg work... and suddenly you master the arcane art and become a member of psijic order.. it is like saying practice baskball for one year and you will become a pro foot ball player... doesn't make much sense. the only real quest in the entire line is the last one, which is also simple, boring and lazy.. you travel into a delve click on a black mist and teleport into a tiny room, where the boss spawn three wave of minion and you suddenly save the world..........

First time when i do dark beotherhood/ thieves guild quest i thought they were terrible, since we have to grind alot in middle of the quest. now, they all seem so much better. for that psijic have no grind in between, it is entirely boring grind from beginning to end... this got to be the worst expansion/guild ever.. i doubt ill ever consider getting any eso expansion in the future.

Oberick · May 2018

Unless the skills all become op must have skills there is no way I'm doing the full questline on more than 2 toons. Running around half the world trying to find a portal to click and needing to do it 10+ times per quest is terrible.

Lysette · May 2018

Hm, I have not done it yet, because I haven't bought Summerset yet (but I will of course). But my idea to this is, it is not game mechanics, which is making this a dreadful chore, but the fact, that you are grinding it, is what makes it painful. I see it like with lore books. I am not using any add-on, so this is never a grind for me, I come across those lore books once in a while and it is nothing, what would bother me, because it is not a chore at all then, I more or less stumble over it by accident. Same goes for skyshards and other such stuff - if I am not grinding those, but come across them by accident, it is not painful in any way. You don't have to grind that - it is not the game, it is you, what makes it dreadful.

Daimmyo · May 2018

The share shiny sexiness of Summerset and High Elves, eh...

You have to enjoy it, come on now!

AlnilamE · May 2018

I actually liked the chase around Summerset less than the regular zones. Those were fun. Summerset, I wasn't ready to discover most of it like that.

All in all it was fun, though. And I love the Augur.

OmniDo · May 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you think this is good gameplay, I dont want you designing my games.

Ah, but theyre not designing *your* games.
Theyre designing games for the lowest common denominator, in addition to the greatest possible cash-grab audience.
Z0$ is a business. Profit is all that matters to the shareholders. They don't give a damn about your "entertainment".
And Z0$ team? Theyre wage-slave bound to their shareholders, and so they don't get to decide what is "fun".
Welcome to capitalism bruh.
As Milton said in The Devil's Advocate: "Take a big whiff!"

jedtb16_ESO · May 2018

Oberick wrote: »

Unless the skills all become op must have skills there is no way I'm doing the full questline on more than 2 toons. Running around half the world trying to find a portal to click and needing to do it 10+ times per quest is terrible.

it's 9 per quest.

Sheezabeast · May 2018

What baffles me is why they mandate spending time outside of Summerset...we paid for a 'chapter', why not keep us in the new zone we paid for?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2018

Lysette wrote: »

Hm, I have not done it yet, because I haven't bought Summerset yet (but I will of course). But my idea to this is, it is not game mechanics, which is making this a dreadful chore, but the fact, that you are grinding it, is what makes it painful. I see it like with lore books. I am not using any add-on, so this is never a grind for me, I come across those lore books once in a while and it is nothing, what would bother me, because it is not a chore at all then, I more or less stumble over it by accident. Same goes for skyshards and other such stuff - if I am not grinding those, but come across them by accident, it is not painful in any way. You don't have to grind that - it is not the game, it is you, what makes it dreadful.

Your missing the point. I am all for taking things slow, and I rarely "grind" in this game. And let's be honest, any RPG is going to have some aspect of a grind element to it. The problem is that for people playing multiple characters, this quest is a nightmare because most competitive players are going to want access to the skills in that line on any character they play. I fully admit that other than the auger dialogue, I didnt like the quest much, but you wouldnt hear me saying a word if i only needed to do it one time for whatever shiny they decided to attach to it. Some content is going to have more replay value than others. This content is that horrible combo of zero replay coupled with a need to replay many times for some people.

OmniDo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you think this is good gameplay, I dont want you designing my games.

Ah, but theyre not designing *your* games.
Theyre designing games for the lowest common denominator, in addition to the greatest possible cash-grab audience.
Z0$ is a business. Profit is all that matters to the shareholders. They don't give a damn about your "entertainment".
And Z0$ team? Theyre wage-slave bound to their shareholders, and so they don't get to decide what is "fun".
Welcome to capitalism bruh.
As Milton said in The Devil's Advocate: "Take a big whiff!"

Quibble about possessive pronouns all you want. Would you have ranted if I had said, "if you think this is good gameplay, you should find another career because you suck at your job?" Doesnt change the fact that its bad game design.

OmniDo · May 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Quibble about possessive pronouns all you want. Would you have ranted if I had said, "if you think this is good gameplay, you should find another career because you suck at your job?" Doesnt change the fact that its bad game design.

Perhaps it is, from your point of view, or even perhaps mine, or others.
What's your point?
It's not going to change just because you don't like it.
It will only change if enough folks decide with their wallets.
"Your words mean nothing. Take action, if you dare." - Anubis

zyk · May 2018

OmniDo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Quibble about possessive pronouns all you want. Would you have ranted if I had said, "if you think this is good gameplay, you should find another career because you suck at your job?" Doesnt change the fact that its bad game design.

Perhaps it is, from your point of view, or even perhaps mine, or others.
What's your point?
It's not going to change just because you don't like it.
It will only change if enough folks decide with their wallets.
"Your words mean nothing. Take action, if you dare." - Anubis

Well, it might also be that ZOS will consider this feedback in future content if enough people express dissatisfaction. But if everyone who dislikes it, but not enough to quit, remains silent, it is less likely to change in the future.

IMO, this further alienates PVP players. Especially those I know from around launch who frequently consider coming back, but then see content like this and think, "forget it."

greylox · May 2018

I liked listening to the comments from the Auger at each site, was a bit grindy and am not looking foward to it on alts but it was bearable. The quest itself was ok ish, nothing as good as the main but I did it after that so was n't expecting much tbh.

redspecter23 · May 2018

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of a large grind for every toon I have. This as well as skyshards and horse training and lore books are a bit of a turn off for players with multiple characters. However, there are plenty of perks for players with multiple characters. Extra crafting writs and other dailies for more rewards per day. Options and choice for different builds to play at any given time. If you play only one character or very few alts, then this is a much smaller grind overall. I suppose you could look at it as a perk for playing fewer characters. If this sort of grind is intended as a counterbalance to the advantages of multiple toons, then there is some design balance there. I have a feeling that wasn't the thought process they used though.

Thalmor-Nordmaster · May 2018

I had a blast with the Auger. And the mirth continues with the interactive collectible. I stuck him in Earthtear cavern and he liked it there. I stuck him in the Alikr apartments and he said the place was not adequate. He still cracks me up, On the last set, I was totally expecting to get sucked into an Oblivion realm. Like with those "Strange Chests".

Everyone learns after the first time that you don't stick nothing into"Strange" bad things happen. Especially with Zenimax/Oblivion and Daedric Princes.

With Raz, I am still trying to wrap my head around why he married the Queen. Was it to seal the deal with Elsweyer? A loyalty marriage? No matter how drunk I get I cannot make sense of this. I give up it must be some Khajiit spell.

The quest will go faster on my alts as I now know what when and where. It took me longer to get Jewelry to 50 than to complete the psijic storyline. To celebrate that I made a bunch of Torugs pact rings and handed them out. I am happy now. so happy. and being happy with a fridge full of beer is a good thing. If I run out I will go to the store and get more.

DarcyMardin · May 2018

I agree that it’ll get pretty mind-numbing on multiple alts, but I’m finding it kinda fun on my main. Kudos to both the writers and the voice actor for the Augur — he is one of the best characters in the entire game!

greylox · May 2018

...and oh yeah .................*spoiler*

I gave the Auger to the woman that was kicked out, just couldn't face having that dude locked up. I would've kept him/it/inter-quadra-dimensional with me if I could have.

Dhukath · May 2018

The issue is that if your a long time, max level, cadwells silver or gold player, its as described an unimaginative dot to dot.

However, if your starting a new character or are new to the game, it follows well with progression through each zone and is another task to complete during your exciting initial explorations.

AchlysNox · May 2018

ZOS developer meeting on the Psijic questline:

Dev 1: I have this great new idea for a type of quests we can make!
Dev 2: Oh?
Dev 1: How about we make the player read a map, then ride to that point on the map and press E?
Dev 2: That's awesome! Let's make them do that 60 times in a row! That'll be super fun!
Dev 1: Can we put the locations in hard to reach places far away from way shrines and scatter them all over the map requiring multiple loading screens to complete each quest along the way?
Dev 2: Sure! And then we can harass them along the way with this annoying disembodied voice that babbles nonsensically!
Dev 1: This is pure gold!

>_<

Thorstienn · May 2018

This is definitely the most pointless/time wasting grind.
Lorebooks: take time but are available in dungeons, pvp and general exploring the world getting SP etc.
Fighters Guild: Just happens with open world, dungeons, dolmens etc.
Undaunted: dungeons and pledges (lame for ppl that don't like dungeons) but SP and lorebooks inside
Alliance: PVP, BGs (annoying if you don't like pvp) but SP and lorebooks? inside
Psijic just doesn't fit with anything. For vet players it's just travel time. For new players it's just male-cow-manure.

MehrunesFlagon · May 2018

OmniDo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you think this is good gameplay, I dont want you designing my games.

Ah, but theyre not designing *your* games.
Theyre designing games for the lowest common denominator, in addition to the greatest possible cash-grab audience.
Z0$ is a business. Profit is all that matters to the shareholders. They don't give a damn about your "entertainment".
And Z0$ team? Theyre wage-slave bound to their shareholders, and so they don't get to decide what is "fun".
Welcome to capitalism bruh.
As Milton said in The Devil's Advocate: "Take a big whiff!"

hey could tell the shareholders to go *** themselves.

SirCritical · May 2018

zyk wrote: »

However, in this case, the reward is for an important Skill line that players will want on frequently played characters.

-1000/10

Heh? What's your problem, since you just concluded: it's a powerful skill-line. Why should they give it to you for free? Even legerdemain skill-line needed more time to max out (because of it's daily limits). I'm really not rushing, but I maxed psijics skill-line yesterday, with clearing up the stacks of surveys and treasure chests (collected by 9 characters in the latest anniversary event) in every zone.

AchlysNox · May 2018

OmniDo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you think this is good gameplay, I dont want you designing my games.

Ah, but theyre not designing *your* games.
Theyre designing games for the lowest common denominator, in addition to the greatest possible cash-grab audience.
Z0$ is a business. Profit is all that matters to the shareholders. They don't give a damn about your "entertainment".
And Z0$ team? Theyre wage-slave bound to their shareholders, and so they don't get to decide what is "fun".
Welcome to capitalism bruh.
As Milton said in The Devil's Advocate: "Take a big whiff!"

There are many ways to run a successful business, ZOS seems fixed on the one that maximizes profits at the expense of the quality of their product, but it doesn't have to be that way. It's a decision they're making to focus on squeezing their customers for more money rather than developing quality content that we would gladly pay for.

They may make more money this way in the short run, but it's not a sustainable model and will eventually end up costing them more.

zyk · May 2018

SirCritical wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

However, in this case, the reward is for an important Skill line that players will want on frequently played characters.

-1000/10

Heh? What's your problem, since you just concluded: it's a powerful skill-line. Why should they give it to you for free? Even legerdemain skill-line needed more time to max out (because of it's daily limits). I'm really not rushing, but I maxed psijics skill-line yesterday, with clearing up the stacks of surveys and treasure chests (collected by 9 characters in the latest anniversary event) in every zone.

You missed my point entirely.

I'm not displeased because it's not free. I dislike that it's extremely boring. Content this mindless is *painful* for me. I would be okay with it if it was behind and interesting questline or challenging in some way instead of the equivalent of 60 crafting surveys located across base game zones.

Legerdemain is much more interesting with the potential for interesting rewards along the way.