More Skills = Better.....but we need more slots - or a new philosophy of game balance.

Invincible · May 2018

eso marketing campaign: "play how you wanna play!" so long as you don't deviate not a single enchant, glyph, race, potion, rotation, gear set, weapon set, or animation cancel.

Total freedom!

Revokus · May 2018

Invincible wrote: »

eso marketing campaign: "play how you wanna play!" so long as you don't deviate not a single enchant, glyph, race, potion, rotation, gear set, weapon set, or animation cancel.

Total freedom!

I know right...you can’t play how you want in this game. You will have a bad build for either pvp or endgame pve. Maybe for roleplay but that’s not my thing.

Zardayne · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We need less mandatory skills.

With a magicka character, I currently need a destruction staff ability (for Ancient Knowledge passive) and Inner Light (for the extra magicka and crit chance) on BOTH bars.

That leaves me with just 6/10 ability slots for everything else. Some classes can use destro ultimate to proc Ancient Knowledge, but not everyone (wardens are forced to double slot bear ult, for example).

I don't mind the limited ability slots. I just wish we'd be able to take full advantage of what we have.

That's an issue I've always had too. Too many buffs taking the spot of active skills. We've got buffs for crit, buffs for damage, buffs for more mag, etc. I mean I spend just as much time prior to the fight buffing as I do actually killing. It's kind of draining.

Yep,and then you have double barred bear..damn!

MaleAmazon · May 2018

Funny, I feel I have too many skills and do not have the coordination to constantly rotate between them so I find myself relying on a few specific skills so I don't become frustrated with too many options.

Well there are slots that can be used for passive skills, at least some.

I agree that it would be nice to have 1 more skill slot, it would open things up. It´s good that you can´t have everything, but too often I find myself going;

"Oh, this is something I´d like to try, let´s see, major brutality source, savagery.. some heal.. oh I must take out a skill that really helps my character to try this. Hmm, maybe not".

Kiralyn2000 · May 2018

Revokus wrote: »

Invincible wrote: »

eso marketing campaign: "play how you wanna play!" so long as you don't deviate not a single enchant, glyph, race, potion, rotation, gear set, weapon set, or animation cancel.

Total freedom!

I know right...you can’t play how you want in this game. You will have a bad build for either pvp or endgame pve. Maybe for roleplay but that’s not my thing.

Pretty much any similar game (MMO, ARPG, etc), no matter how many skills or pieces of gear, have theorycrafted "best" builds. That if you don't use them, the 'pros' call you a 'bad' and don't let you in their groups.

Even in a game with 80 skills and 40 skillbar slots, there are still be a handful of approved endgame builds that min-maxers feel pressured to use. With the right enchants, the right potions, and the right rotation.

Juhasow · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We need less mandatory skills.

With a magicka character, I currently need a destruction staff ability (for Ancient Knowledge passive) and Inner Light (for the extra magicka and crit chance) on BOTH bars.

That leaves me with just 6/10 ability slots for everything else. Some classes can use destro ultimate to proc Ancient Knowledge, but not everyone (wardens are forced to double slot bear ult, for example).

I don't mind the limited ability slots. I just wish we'd be able to take full advantage of what we have.

Double slotting inner light ? What is this 2015 ? You dont need it on 2 bars sometiems You dont even need it at all.

Revokus · May 2018

Revokus wrote: »

Invincible wrote: »

eso marketing campaign: "play how you wanna play!" so long as you don't deviate not a single enchant, glyph, race, potion, rotation, gear set, weapon set, or animation cancel.

Total freedom!

I know right

Revokus wrote: »

Invincible wrote: »

eso marketing campaign: "play how you wanna play!" so long as you don't deviate not a single enchant, glyph, race, potion, rotation, gear set, weapon set, or animation cancel.

Total freedom!

I know right...

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

Invincible wrote: »

eso marketing campaign: "play how you wanna play!" so long as you don't deviate not a single enchant, glyph, race, potion, rotation, gear set, weapon set, or animation cancel.

Total freedom!

I know right...you can’t play how you want in this game. You will have a bad build for either pvp or endgame pve. Maybe for roleplay but that’s not my thing.

Pretty much any similar game (MMO, ARPG, etc), no matter how many skills or pieces of gear, have theorycrafted "best" builds. That if you don't use them, the 'pros' call you a 'bad' and don't let you in their groups.

Even in a game with 80 skills and 40 skillbar slots, there are still be a handful of approved endgame builds that min-maxers feel pressured to use. With the right enchants, the right potions, and the right rotation.

Yeah but not as as bad as in this game warden can’t play effectively with a bow in pvp or pve and is marketed as a ranger class I could go on like any magicka character forced to use a flame staff in pvp while if you’re a warden you would want frost staff to be viable to fit the theme right ? Or at least zos should give us the option to transmog spells.

billp_ESO · May 2018

The game was designed from the ground up as a console game, to be played with a controller. That's why so many features have gone backwards, like inventory and skill slots.

They aren't going to change it now.

Wolfenbelle · May 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

Maybe I'm alone on that but I like things like it is. For PvE you don't need tons of skills to be effective, even now some have problems with rotations and avoiding red circles. In PvP on the other hand it would create chaos. Balancing more skills would be a nightmare. Imagine you can have DD, tank, healer and utility skills at the same time. Currently it's a game of choices and it's good as it is, you can't have all.

Sure, we can't have it all, but there are around 100 skills in the game, and we can only use 5 + 1 ultimate at a time. Yes, we can think of it as 10 + 2, but we must use only 5 + 1 at a time. That is ridiculous, especially when ZOS keeps adding more skills frequently. If consoles are the limiting factor, then ZOS needs to reimagine how to let us access more skills at one time. Perhaps the idea of some way to slot buffs like Inner Light separately is the best idea.

Editing to add there are 83 active combat skills and 17 ultimates in the game with the addition of the new Psijic line. (More if you sum all class skills, which I did not. Since we have access to one class skillset per character, I calculated as 3 skill lines x 5 skills per, or 15.)

5 skills is only 6‰ of active combat skills that can be used at a time. Again, yes we can swap bars but still can use only 5 skills at a time. We can use only 1 ultimate at a time and even swapping bars we cannot use the 2nd ultimate until we build enough ulti points back up. To be honest, this situation is stupid. Again, if the constraint is console limitations, then ZOS needs to think of another solution.

MaleAmazon · May 2018

Perhaps the idea of some way to slot buffs like Inner Light separately is the best idea.

Yeah. Do it like in Diablo 3 and separate active and passive skills. Revamp some skills and put things like expert hunter in the latter category.

If console buttons really is a problem, that is.

ThinkerOfThings · May 2018

billp_ESO wrote: »

The game was designed from the ground up as a console game, to be played with a controller. That's why so many features have gone backwards, like inventory and skill slots.

They aren't going to change it now.

I agree that they are likely not going to change it. How would any of the proposed changes look for console players?

Karivaa · May 2018

On our Xbox controllers we only have so many places to use skills.

josiahva · May 2018

Invincible wrote: »

eso marketing campaign: "play how you wanna play!" so long as you don't deviate not a single enchant, glyph, race, potion, rotation, gear set, weapon set, or animation cancel.

Total freedom!

Umm, you do realize that not everyone who plays the game cares to be the best of the best at DPS right? 60k DPS? What exactly does that matter if all content can be completed with 25k DPS? This whole way of thinking only applies to those who must see their names on the leader-boards, you actually CAN play however you want if you actually want to play a certain way, but the game has sadly become copy and paste X build, and that isn't the fault of the developers, that's the fault of players who don't experiment with their own builds and just copy someone else's because that person managed to accomplish X DPS with it. Its the toxic environment of high-end PVE trials guilds that promotes this type of thinking. All tanks must use such and such a set with such and such enchants, all magicka nightblades must use this, blah blah blah. Its not the developers causing this issue, its the players and their toxicity

Chadak · May 2018

lygerseye wrote: »

Ever play a TCG, like Magic: The Gathering? (Or maybe The Elder Scrolls: Legends?)

I look at this game and think of it like a TCG, where you’re limited to the number of cards (skills) you can have on the field, or in your hand, or in your deck. They continually add new cards to the game, but there’s still a limit to the number of cards you can use. Based on your preferred play style, you have to build your deck within those limitations and hope you picked the right combination to out-play your opponent.

Except here in ESO, of the figurative 100 cards you might have in your 'hand', a solid 70+ of them will never and shall never be anything more than novelties or very niche in their actual use, and will absolutely be found to be objectively inferior to something else in most to all ways when it comes time to slot powers. Of the 20-30 that remain, you will be running these particular 10 for pvp. You will do this or you will lose more often, and maybe a lot more often.

If you're doing PvE, you will run these other 10. You will do this or you will get told 'your DPS parses are trash skrublet. Come back when you're at 35k+' or 'your HPS isn't good enough. Why aren't you running <skills A-Z>'.

You have freedom to run more or less whatever you like only if you're not doing anything except running around the world soloing, or maybe PUG'ing normal mode dungeons. I.E: not really doing much of anything.

XxCaLxX · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Yes but make it pc only, console players would be offended probably

I don’t know why we would be offended. Idc if they add another ability slot for each bar. Unless you put passive skills on it, it would just lower dps though. Shooting off 4 to 5 abilities on each bar is going to kill sustain and make it even harder to keep up all dots and aoe’s. Again they should add it for ppl that want it, it sure wouldn’t hurt. Be nice to slot camo hunter, innner light or other passive skills to help save on potions or whatever.

Juju_beans · May 2018

I'm pretty happy with what we have now. Sure there's choices to be made.

Go play a game where every skill is available for you to use and see how cumbersome it quickly gets.
All these key bind combinations because you have more skills than keyboard keys.
Then you need to learn macros so you can sequence your skills.

There is something to be said about simplicity.

hakan · May 2018

i would love a couple of more slots, but i dont understand how you guys think there is limited builds. this game has so many sets and skills. it doesnt have to be bis.

i have another idea that i didnt see it here.
what about skills combos? i mean shift left click does something, shift right click does something else.

thoughts?

Drachenfier · May 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

I'm pretty happy with what we have now. Sure there's choices to be made.

Go play a game where every skill is available for you to use and see how cumbersome it quickly gets.
All these key bind combinations because you have more skills than keyboard keys.
Then you need to learn macros so you can sequence your skills.

There is something to be said about simplicity.

My 15 button mouse is going to waste on ESO

Kiralyn2000 · May 2018

Drachenfier wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

I'm pretty happy with what we have now. Sure there's choices to be made.

Go play a game where every skill is available for you to use and see how cumbersome it quickly gets.
All these key bind combinations because you have more skills than keyboard keys.
Then you need to learn macros so you can sequence your skills.

There is something to be said about simplicity.

My 15 button mouse is going to waste on ESO

Oof, the idea of a 15-button mouse makes me cringe.

I have enough trouble managing the middle button of my 3-button mouse (of course, those "push in the scroll wheel, careful not to spin it!" third buttons are a pain to start with. Just like the "push in the thumbstick" L3/R3 buttons on the Playstation controller.

)

Drachenfier · May 2018

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

I'm pretty happy with what we have now. Sure there's choices to be made.

Go play a game where every skill is available for you to use and see how cumbersome it quickly gets.
All these key bind combinations because you have more skills than keyboard keys.
Then you need to learn macros so you can sequence your skills.

There is something to be said about simplicity.

My 15 button mouse is going to waste on ESO

Oof, the idea of a 15-button mouse makes me cringe. I have enough trouble managing the middle button of my 3-button mouse (of course, those "push in the scroll wheel, careful not to spin it!" third buttons are a pain to start with. Just like the "push in the thumbstick" L3/R3 buttons on the Playstation controller. )

Oh man, I couldn't play without this thing. I originally bought my first one, a Razer Naga or something, back during Warhammer Online's heyday and I've been hooked ever since.

And I can't do controllers, I'm too derpy.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2018

More slots, for most people, would only mean slotting more abilities that grant bonuses without having to use them that much.

For example, I’m not double slotting entropy for the damage it does. Of my 12 total skills 4 are only there now to make my important abilities hit harder.

technohic · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We need less mandatory skills.

With a magicka character, I currently need a destruction staff ability (for Ancient Knowledge passive) and Inner Light (for the extra magicka and crit chance) on BOTH bars.

That leaves me with just 6/10 ability slots for everything else. Some classes can use destro ultimate to proc Ancient Knowledge, but not everyone (wardens are forced to double slot bear ult, for example).

I don't mind the limited ability slots. I just wish we'd be able to take full advantage of what we have.

Yes. Too many buffs and double bar requirements. Would rather they cut this down and free up bar space than add more buttons.

Maybe add some more things that act like overload to give extra bars for those who want it.

CyberSkooma · May 2018

I would like 1 more skill on each bar.
that's it.

I actually really like how restricted we are to skill choice in this game. Plenty of MMO's let you bind as many skills as you can stomach having on your ten action bars, it gets old after a while.

LittlePinkDot · May 2018

I play on ps4. How about "buff synergies" that allow you to slot 2 buffs to 1 button. So both buffs will be cast at the same time. No extra buttons on controllers required.

MerlinPendragon · May 2018

They should offer a 6th ability slot as a purchasable option in the Crown Store.

DamenAJ · May 2018

We don't need more slots, we need more balance in the current abilities.

Honestly, the way the slots are set up work pretty well for me, I can only really co-ordinate about 3 skills at a time, and the last two on each bar are buffs. I have co-ordination issues, so even trying to work with 4 skills was giving me a really hard time...

The issue I think we have, if we want to have "end game" damage (Enough dps to be allowed in trials without people being absolute knobs to us) there are very few choices we can make with our abilities. There is a meta for pretty much every class, magicka and stamina.

What they SHOULD do, is make it so more spells are viable for the same slot. Like, have one great AOE, Dot, execute, and spammable per weapon, all viable for use depending on what the person prefers. Same with class skills.

I'm not suggesting making everything the same, let's use bows and 2h for example... You can keep Hail and Cleave, But maybe give cleave a bigger range, and a stronger dot to make it actually match up to around the same DPS/usuability as hail. Or even switch cleave to a different AOE where you throw your weapon and it spins around. (which makes about as much game logic as being able to cast tons of other bow abilities while you're shooting off an endless hail...)

Edit: Although I wouldn't mind an extra little bar, for like 1-2 skills for like... Rapid maneuver. Something anyone can have, but is not a DPS increase.

Raraaku · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We need less mandatory skills.

With a magicka character, I currently need a destruction staff ability (for Ancient Knowledge passive) and Inner Light (for the extra magicka and crit chance) on BOTH bars.

That leaves me with just 6/10 ability slots for everything else. Some classes can use destro ultimate to proc Ancient Knowledge, but not everyone (wardens are forced to double slot bear ult, for example).

I don't mind the limited ability slots. I just wish we'd be able to take full advantage of what we have.

^^ This. When I first started I wish that I had extra slots, but now I enjoy the current set-up. What I don't like about the current system is exactly what MLG said. The current meta seems to revolve around the same 3-5 core skills for every role, the rest is just flavor. While effective, there is a reason why it's considered BiS, it quickly renders most of your builds (in my experience) essentially repeating the same rotation, just a couple of different damage dealing abilities which even the same classes seem to use the same ones.

What I'd like is not so much more slots for skills, but more effective skills to fill those slots. Instead of something like 7 slots per bar, give me 7 skills per skill line. Expand the horizons of meta with new skills that can compete with those core "BiS" skills that occupy virtually every meta build out there. If that were achieved, I would have a lot more fun doing end-game content.

Aknunsus · May 2018

I was trying to think of how they could add additional active abilities for ps4 controller. We hit the left button to swap weapons back and forth. Perhaps they could add an additional set to swap with. i.e set 1 is main wep + abilities ; set 2 is main wep + abilities; set 3 backup wep + abilities; set 4 backup wep + abilities. So you still have two weps, but you get a few more abilities.

But, I don't like having to sort through too many things to get to the ability I want -- too many buttons/options gets unwieldy. So I would prefer just having 3 sets (2 tied to main wep, 1 tied to backup wep).

After writing all this, I think I like it how it is...

mikey_reach · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Yes but make it pc only, console players would be offended probably

To be honest id be a little salty but then i remember i have an elite controller. Where i can actually fit a third bar lol. It does sucks for ps4 an non elite user though if it were to ever happen.

Facefister · May 2018

"Why this game isn't like WoW?" - The Thread