IMO Eso should make a choice between sub or b2p...

lihentian · May 2018

Zos like to sale overpriced furniture and house.. but you are limited to half decoration for none eso+ member..
Zos like to sale all kind of outfit and costume. but custome dye is lock behind sub wall
Zos like to sale horse training but unlock a new character slot cost $15

imo ESO should either force everyone to sub, and remove cash shop. put all future update in game...
Or remove eso+, and make this a true b2p game. basically they force sale crown to every eso+ so they have to put overpriced item in their cash shop. so eso+ member have place to spend their crown.. this is a bad bussiness model imo. personally i believe they would earn much more and attract much more population if they change the game to true b2p or sub model.

lordspyder · May 2018

i don't care

Well the game used to be sub only and had no crown store. But everyone said they wouldn't play a game with a sub. We all argued with them saying tat this is what you would get with a B2P format. So this *** is what you get now.

But to be fair, this game really isn't all that bad, Go play BDO and come back here and tell me what you think. granted you don't have to buy any content upgrades, but a sub is $15 a month and you get no free pearls. Costumes cost upwards of $30 a pop and are only usable on one character and all base armor looks exactly the same. $50 for a skin for your tent. In reality this game is not that bad.

Raraaku · May 2018

i don't care

If it were a bad business model, it wouldn't be a prevalent trend within the MMO business industry. Nearly all MMOs employ a micro-transaction store. Even WoW, which is subscription only has one; as well as Guild Wars who were the first to prove B2P could be a sustainable business model has one. The optional membership model is also an emerging business model because it works. The membership is not P2W, but it is a serious upgrade in convenience; particularly with the crafting bag. Why should ZOS remove something that is making them money and that is a completely optional concept that does not interfere with others' experience that choose not to opt in?

The majority of the items within the store are convenience or cosmetic with no lasting advantage against non-purchasing players. The most significant advantage is that of when a new crafting skill line is released and someone is willing to spend money for research scrolls to race to the top and max out the skill line ASAP. Sure one could argue they have an unfair advantage, in terms of economic advantage, but that advantage will quickly dissipate as the market catches up in a short amount of time.

I really don't understand the argument about how their model concept is unfair.

Kuwhar · May 2018

Disagreer

I've never been a fan of cash shops etc. but I really think ESO has a good model here.

Base game, B2P, you get a ton of content and you aren't locked out of skills or progressions.

Drop a sub and you get more space, free crowns, and all the DLC perks.

It's the only game i can think of that is pretty forgiving of people for not subbing, yet offers good and worthwhile perks for subbing.

Edit: their model also allows them to make a truckload of cash so, hard to argue with it.

srfrogg23 · May 2018

Disagreer

I think they did make a choice, they went B2P with an optional sub.

As someone who played back when it was sub-only, I’m gonna let ya know, “sub-only” is not going to get you what you think it will get you. All those little bonuses that you get with ESO+ are literally that, bonuses.

Playing the game without subscribing is basically what the game was like before they switched to B2P, like that is the original ESO experience.

Things like the crafting bag and increased experience/gold gains were not a part of the P2P model back in the day.

Cpt_Teemo · May 2018

Agree

Agreed, or atleast have preferred status that obtains the 2x and a portion of the craft bag where materials cap at 1k tops imo.

AlnilamE · May 2018

Disagreer

I vote for sub.

But others disagree and like to buy shiny things.

Also, if you sub, you get crowns that allow you to buy shiny things.

Kiralyn2000 · May 2018

lihentian wrote: »

imo ESO should either force everyone to sub, and remove cash shop. put all future update in game...

You do realize that the required-sub games out there (like WoW and FF14), still have a cash shop, and still charge for expansions, right?

So ESO going sub wouldn't remove the crown shop, and wouldn't necessarily include "all future updates" for free?

(also, many b2p/f2p games with cash shops still have a sub-for-bonuses system going on. So going full b2p wouldn't mean ESO+ going away, either.)

White wabbit · May 2018

Disagreer

If they made this sub only how much of the player base would they lose

moses1763 · May 2018

Disagreer

I find the cash shop just a very small temptation from time to time hence I sub knowing full well there is nothing in the crown store I MUST buy and with my sub I get a limitless craft bag, crowns, and unlocked DLC its a triple winner as far as I can say for myself.

Turelus · May 2018

i don't care

The game can't be sub only because of consoles, not many console players are willing to pay for an MMO sub on top of their online service costs.

Also ZOS are not going to change a thing when they're winning with the current system, why deliberately make less money when you can make more with this method.

I will give that it at least allows players options on how they access their content, casual people are generally better with B2P and more hardcore players are better with ESO+

lihentian · May 2018

Agree

White wabbit wrote: »

If they made this sub only how much of the player base would they lose

sub wall + heavy cash shop already kill many of the player...

AlnilamE wrote: »

I vote for sub.

But others disagree and like to buy shiny things.

Also, if you sub, you get crowns that allow you to buy shiny things.

the thing is.. just sub is no where near enough to get all content from cash shop.. crown house are sold for 10k+ crown.. just one house cost more then a years sub..... just saying~~

Kiralyn2000 · May 2018

lihentian wrote: »

sub wall + heavy cash shop already kill many of the player...

...sub is no where near enough to get all content from cash shop...

I don't understand this "heavy cash shop" thing.... yeah, there's a bunch of stuff in there. But very little of it is stuff people "need". If a particular person has some sort of obsession with "having it all", well that's not ZOS's fault, is it? The world is full of stores that are full of stuff. If you can control yourself to not buy everything in those shops, why can't you in a game's shop? Do you get upset that you can't buy everything at Gamestop, or FYE, or American Eagle?

Katahdin · May 2018

Disagreer

The game launched as mandatory sub. It was changed later because it wasn't profitable enough and they launched console versions.

The sub is now completely optional. You don't absolutely need it.

FinneganFroth · May 2018

i don't care

The only reason I'm here is because they got rid of the sub. I refuse to play a game that MAKES me pay monthly to play the game I already purchased.

On a side note, I'm an ESO+ member. I know this may seem like a paradox but being forced to pay monthly versus electing to pay monthly in a game is a lot different in principle to me.

Kuwhar · May 2018

Disagreer

lihentian wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

If they made this sub only how much of the player base would they lose

sub wall + heavy cash shop already kill many of the player...

AlnilamE wrote: »

I vote for sub.

But others disagree and like to buy shiny things.

Also, if you sub, you get crowns that allow you to buy shiny things.

the thing is.. just sub is no where near enough to get all content from cash shop.. crown house are sold for 10k+ crown.. just one house cost more then a years sub..... just saying~~

Sub wall? What?

You can get to cp750, max crafting, etc. etc. Withought ever paying a dime past purchase of the game...

Yzalirk · May 2018

Disagreer

Everything is optional in ESO. You can play the game without a subscription granted you are missing out on some exclusive perks of being a subscriber.

If you want to buy overpriced furniture for your house, so be it. Your money would probably be best allocated elsewhere, such as character slots. Of course, you can always buy the DLC instead. If you are that keen on outfit dyeing, trust me, you really are not missing out that much. I think the outfit system is a bit better and it is available to everyone.

Kiralyn2000 · May 2018

Yzalirk wrote: »

Everything is optional in ESO. You can play the game without a subscription granted you are missing out on some exclusive perks of being a subscriber.

If you want to buy overpriced furniture for your house, so be it. Your money would probably be best allocated elsewhere, such as character slots. Of course, you can always buy the DLC instead. If you are that keen on outfit dyeing, trust me, you really are not missing out that much. I think the outfit system is a bit better and it is available to everyone.

And you can access some of those perks (like dying your costumes, or adding more house decor) during the periodic "5 days free ESO+ trial!" events. That's how I've been doing it since I was last subscribed.

lihentian · May 2018

Agree

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Yzalirk wrote: »

Everything is optional in ESO. You can play the game without a subscription granted you are missing out on some exclusive perks of being a subscriber.

If you want to buy overpriced furniture for your house, so be it. Your money would probably be best allocated elsewhere, such as character slots. Of course, you can always buy the DLC instead. If you are that keen on outfit dyeing, trust me, you really are not missing out that much. I think the outfit system is a bit better and it is available to everyone.

And you can access some of those perks (like dying your costumes, or adding more house decor) during the periodic "5 days free ESO+ trial!" events. That's how I've been doing it since I was last subscribed.

yes i know that. would you consider paying $100 for a house that you can only decorate when there is a event going on? at least i wouldn't..

Kiralyn2000 · May 2018

lihentian wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Yzalirk wrote: »

Everything is optional in ESO. You can play the game without a subscription granted you are missing out on some exclusive perks of being a subscriber.

If you want to buy overpriced furniture for your house, so be it. Your money would probably be best allocated elsewhere, such as character slots. Of course, you can always buy the DLC instead. If you are that keen on outfit dyeing, trust me, you really are not missing out that much. I think the outfit system is a bit better and it is available to everyone.

And you can access some of those perks (like dying your costumes, or adding more house decor) during the periodic "5 days free ESO+ trial!" events. That's how I've been doing it since I was last subscribed.

yes i know that. would you consider paying $100 for a house that you can only decorate when there is a event going on? at least i wouldn't..

Well, I wouldn't consider buying a $100 house. Period. Full stop. I'm constantly amazed that anyone buys those things.

But I'm not offended by them, nor annoyed that they exist in the crown store. Any more than I'm annoyed or offended at stupidly over-priced "designer" pre-ripped pants in the clothing store for $500. I just roll my eyes at the people silly enough to buy them. /shrug

LeagueTroll · May 2018

Agree

Give no sub costume dye already

DieAlteHexe · May 2018

Disagreer

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Yzalirk wrote: »

Everything is optional in ESO. You can play the game without a subscription granted you are missing out on some exclusive perks of being a subscriber.

If you want to buy overpriced furniture for your house, so be it. Your money would probably be best allocated elsewhere, such as character slots. Of course, you can always buy the DLC instead. If you are that keen on outfit dyeing, trust me, you really are not missing out that much. I think the outfit system is a bit better and it is available to everyone.

And you can access some of those perks (like dying your costumes, or adding more house decor) during the periodic "5 days free ESO+ trial!" events. That's how I've been doing it since I was last subscribed.

yes i know that. would you consider paying $100 for a house that you can only decorate when there is a event going on? at least i wouldn't..

Well, I wouldn't consider buying a $100 house. Period. Full stop. I'm constantly amazed that anyone buys those things.

But I'm not offended by them, nor annoyed that they exist in the crown store. Any more than I'm annoyed or offended at stupidly over-priced "designer" pre-ripped pants in the clothing store for $500. I just roll my eyes at the people silly enough to buy them. /shrug

Eh, what I think is silly (and those pre-ripped jeans are a good example), makes others happy. I don't get it but then I don't suppose qiviut yarn would make them all giddy either.

I like housing as it gives me something to do when my hands are giving me fits and I can't manage combat. It's funny because I am NOT one to decorate in RL...not even a bit.

Avalon · May 2018

No matter what we want, the reason subscription models lose, is that players rebel against having to pay to play (not sure why)... and, because game companies figured out, that they can get far more money from MT store sales. Just on a simple and easy level, if you have 10 players, each paying 15 a month (150 total), game costs 100 to maintain (including wages and everything), so they keep 50 (remember, stay simple here).

However, if they have MT sales, instead, 4 of those players will buy nothing, 3 will buy 20 each, 3 will buy 40, and 1 will spend 100. Total is now 280. They pay 100 to maintain, make 180 (over 3x what they made with subs). Now, scale that up to millions of players, and the prices we see in the store, and you get a really disgusting image of greed at play, especially when you consider how much is broken in the game, how many QoL things we still are missing, and so much more.

It isn't because they don't have the extra money to hire more people, or pay for better things, or anything else... it's because the goal is to provide the minimum necessary to keep people playing and paying. But, hey, that's how capitalism works lol, not like we get better at any competitor. So, pick the evil you want to be in bed with, and try to have as much fun as you can.

Kiralyn2000 · May 2018

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Yzalirk wrote: »

Everything is optional in ESO. You can play the game without a subscription granted you are missing out on some exclusive perks of being a subscriber.

If you want to buy overpriced furniture for your house, so be it. Your money would probably be best allocated elsewhere, such as character slots. Of course, you can always buy the DLC instead. If you are that keen on outfit dyeing, trust me, you really are not missing out that much. I think the outfit system is a bit better and it is available to everyone.

And you can access some of those perks (like dying your costumes, or adding more house decor) during the periodic "5 days free ESO+ trial!" events. That's how I've been doing it since I was last subscribed.

yes i know that. would you consider paying $100 for a house that you can only decorate when there is a event going on? at least i wouldn't..

Well, I wouldn't consider buying a $100 house. Period. Full stop. I'm constantly amazed that anyone buys those things.

But I'm not offended by them, nor annoyed that they exist in the crown store. Any more than I'm annoyed or offended at stupidly over-priced "designer" pre-ripped pants in the clothing store for $500. I just roll my eyes at the people silly enough to buy them. /shrug

Eh, what I think is silly (and those pre-ripped jeans are a good example), makes others happy. I don't get it but then I don't suppose qiviut yarn would make them all giddy either.

I like housing as it gives me something to do when my hands are giving me fits and I can't manage combat. It's funny because I am NOT one to decorate in RL...not even a bit.

Oh, I don't think housing in general is silly - I've certainly enjoyed what I've done in decorating Hunding's and the Exorcised Cottage. I just think that $100+ houses are silly.

Davor · May 2018

FinneganFroth wrote: »

The only reason I'm here is because they got rid of the sub. I refuse to play a game that MAKES me pay monthly to play the game I already purchased.

On a side note, I'm an ESO+ member. I know this may seem like a paradox but being forced to pay monthly versus electing to pay monthly in a game is a lot different in principle to me.

I am like you. I HATED ESO when I had to sub so I quit after my first month. Funny now I sub when it's optional. It's a HUGE difference in principle, you are so correct. I sub because I CHOOSE to, not because I am forced too. Now I don't feel like I am buying a game and can only play for one month like I originally have done.

Funny how a difference of being forced and the option to do so makes all the difference of me subbing.

PlagueSD · May 2018

Disagreer

I actually enjoy games that require a subscription to play. One thing everyone forgets about when a game goes F2P. Bots become rampant because you no longer are behind a "paywall". Botters and gold sellers don't like paying a monthly fee to do business.

DieAlteHexe · May 2018

Disagreer

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Yzalirk wrote: »

Everything is optional in ESO. You can play the game without a subscription granted you are missing out on some exclusive perks of being a subscriber.

If you want to buy overpriced furniture for your house, so be it. Your money would probably be best allocated elsewhere, such as character slots. Of course, you can always buy the DLC instead. If you are that keen on outfit dyeing, trust me, you really are not missing out that much. I think the outfit system is a bit better and it is available to everyone.

And you can access some of those perks (like dying your costumes, or adding more house decor) during the periodic "5 days free ESO+ trial!" events. That's how I've been doing it since I was last subscribed.

yes i know that. would you consider paying $100 for a house that you can only decorate when there is a event going on? at least i wouldn't..

Well, I wouldn't consider buying a $100 house. Period. Full stop. I'm constantly amazed that anyone buys those things.

But I'm not offended by them, nor annoyed that they exist in the crown store. Any more than I'm annoyed or offended at stupidly over-priced "designer" pre-ripped pants in the clothing store for $500. I just roll my eyes at the people silly enough to buy them. /shrug

Eh, what I think is silly (and those pre-ripped jeans are a good example), makes others happy. I don't get it but then I don't suppose qiviut yarn would make them all giddy either.

I like housing as it gives me something to do when my hands are giving me fits and I can't manage combat. It's funny because I am NOT one to decorate in RL...not even a bit.

Oh, I don't think housing in general is silly - I've certainly enjoyed what I've done in decorating Hunding's and the Exorcised Cottage. I just think that $100+ houses are silly.

Ooops. Y'know, re-reading that...how'd I misunderstand?

:

Bedtime, methinks. Sorry 'bout that.

FloppyTouch · May 2018

Turelus wrote: »

The game can't be sub only because of consoles, not many console players are willing to pay for an MMO sub on top of their online service costs.

Also ZOS are not going to change a thing when they're winning with the current system, why deliberately make less money when you can make more with this method.

I will give that it at least allows players options on how they access their content, casual people are generally better with B2P and more hardcore players are better with ESO+

Everyone I know on xb has eso+ in fact i find it very rare for someone not to have it. Dont know where you get this consoles players wont pay for a sub.

In fact i know a lot of people that wish they could pay for a whole year at a time instead of month to month. That weird day of overlap on eso plus can lock you out of stuff for 24hrs.

PlagueSD · May 2018

Disagreer

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

The game can't be sub only because of consoles, not many console players are willing to pay for an MMO sub on top of their online service costs.

Also ZOS are not going to change a thing when they're winning with the current system, why deliberately make less money when you can make more with this method.

I will give that it at least allows players options on how they access their content, casual people are generally better with B2P and more hardcore players are better with ESO+

Everyone I know on xb has eso+ in fact i find it very rare for someone not to have it. Dont know where you get this consoles players wont pay for a sub.

In fact i know a lot of people that wish they could pay for a whole year at a time instead of month to month. That weird day of overlap on eso plus can lock you out of stuff for 24hrs.

I used to pay on the 6-month plan (9.99/month) but they got rid of it. I now pay on a 3-month plan (12.99/month). The longer plans are cheaper in the long run...

wenchmore420b14_ESO · May 2018

Disagreer

Katahdin wrote: »

The game launched as mandatory sub. It was changed later because it wasn't profitable enough and they launched console versions.

The sub is now completely optional. You don't absolutely need it.

It wasn't because it wasn't profitable, it was so Console players wouldn't have to pay two monthly subs as Sony and Microsoft wouldn't work with ZoS on this, so for console players, ZoS dropped sub and implemented ESO+, ( a LOT of us at the time wanted a subscription).
IMO ZoS did a great job balancing the business model, and trying to make everyone happy. Subscribers, consoles, casual and hardcore players alike.
Personally, I love ESO+! It is SO worth it! Besides housing perks, there is 10% increase to gold and XP. Crafting "Bag of Holding" which as a crafter is indispensable! 10% reduction on research timers. Extra Housing Slots. DLC access. Etc.

TL;DR... The model is just fine, great even, as it is now..

Rain_Greyraven · May 2018

Disagreer

I like the model the way it is.

I do however think that other than Technical forums, only plus members should have access to the forums, or at the very least take a page from Square Enix and make forum access available only to players with characters over level 25 and have played at least five hours per week....that would effectively deal with the handful of perpetual haters that purchased the game for five bucks on steam just to troll the forums.

It will probably never happen, but Arenanet adopted it from SE and they have one of the best forum communities going.

The Elder Scrolls Online

IMO Eso should make a choice between sub or b2p...

IMO Eso should make a choice between sub or b2p... 223 votes