Why is Sload's still not nerfed?

Biro123 · May 2018

This is funny..

People thinking its mostly sorcs complaining.... THis set does less than half the damage of shieldbreaker - which sorcs had to 'deal with', and 'adjust to'.

The complaints now are because sloads affects everybody. In some ways it could be a nice little payback to everyone who ever said shieldbreaker was fine..

BohnT · May 2018

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

The set is absolutely fine, just make it so that the same dot from 2 different sources doesn't stack and you solved the Xv1 issue, done. It's not even as cancerous as Viper, Velidreth and all the other crap used to be, so I don't get the outcry.

It is because there is simply no counterplay. Viper and everything was pure *** and shouldn't have made it into the game.
But sloads gives you so many free kills it's ridiculous.
Defile build + sloads or infused torugs + oblivion damage and sloads and you can wreck any NB any sorc and any stamspec that's running around without any issues.
That set is completely unbalanced and has to go.

I like it on my mag DK, i can finally kill stuff without having to fight for 5min+ since it adds a lot of pressure, it's fine imo. But you can't nerf it for some classes because it's too broken or whatever without making it absolutely useless on other classes.

Edit: Haha seems like the problem is once again on stamina characters + sloads.

No offence but i guess you are still using that block build and get all your offensive pressure from skoria and sloads atm?
Sets shouldn't open up the ability to kill players on a full tank build that isn't able to kill one without the sets.

Try out DDukes Staff build there's nothing more fun than slaughtering those khajiit snipers with HA+Chains into whip in 2 seconds.

Eduard_Rodric · May 2018

So Sload can be used for stam and magicka builds.

Aznox · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

This set has to go.
A set that ignores any counterplay can't be balanced also the set doesn't "just" deal 853 damage.

Would you complain if it was 100 damage / tick ?

Of course no.

This shows there is a reasonable number, somewhere below 853 (or at, or above but i don't think so).

Personally i think the discussion is interesting, but that it's a bit too soon to draw a conclusion.

BohnT · May 2018

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

This set has to go.
A set that ignores any counterplay can't be balanced also the set doesn't "just" deal 853 damage.

Would you complain if it was 100 damage / tick ?

Of course no.

This shows there is a reasonable number, somewhere below 853 (or at, or above but i don't think so).

Personally i think the discussion is interesting, but that it's a bit too soon to draw a conclusion.

Even at 100 damage it breaks cloak on each tick making it a hardcounter for nightblades.
That alone is enough for me to hate it, i want to see every single hardcounter, Xv1 tool and imbalance removed from this game and it's possible to do this in less than 2 weeks if someone actually cared for balance.

Feanor · May 2018

@Biro123

I actually found the “@Blobsky just wants everything nerfed he can’t abuse on his mDK” from the beginning of the thread much funnier. Because mDK is one of the classes that’s best suited for it because it really adds pressure to their whole CC toolkit.

Vaoh · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

This set has to go.
A set that ignores any counterplay can't be balanced also the set doesn't "just" deal 853 damage.

Would you complain if it was 100 damage / tick ?

Of course no.

This shows there is a reasonable number, somewhere below 853 (or at, or above but i don't think so).

Personally i think the discussion is interesting, but that it's a bit too soon to draw a conclusion.

Even at 100 damage it breaks cloak on each tick making it a hardcounter for nightblades.
That alone is enough for me to hate it, i want to see every single hardcounter, Xv1 tool and imbalance removed from this game and it's possible to do this in less than 2 weeks if someone actually cared for balance.

.....aaaaaaaaaanndddd stop right there. that’s just never gonna happen lol.

BohnT · May 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

This set has to go.
A set that ignores any counterplay can't be balanced also the set doesn't "just" deal 853 damage.

Would you complain if it was 100 damage / tick ?

Of course no.

This shows there is a reasonable number, somewhere below 853 (or at, or above but i don't think so).

Personally i think the discussion is interesting, but that it's a bit too soon to draw a conclusion.

Even at 100 damage it breaks cloak on each tick making it a hardcounter for nightblades.
That alone is enough for me to hate it, i want to see every single hardcounter, Xv1 tool and imbalance removed from this game and it's possible to do this in less than 2 weeks if someone actually cared for balance.

.....aaaaaaaaaanndddd stop right there. that’s just never gonna happen lol.

I know but we can't accept that more and more op stuff gets introduced with every patch while old problems aren't fixed

Mayrael · May 2018

Oh look. NB complains about set that disables their skill, oooooh, but shieldbreaker is ok?

TBH sload is way way more balanced than SB. 850 dmg can be easily outhealed by rapid regen or vigor ticking (with vigor up you won't even notice that you're getting hit) skills available to everyone. On top of that NB can use Rally or Strife + shadow image when it goes really bad. If you as a NB have problems with surviving without cloak, you need to l2p, really. Cloak can be broken by so many things that learning when to kite and when to cloak is basic knowledge for every NB.

What sorc can do against SB? 100% GUARANTEED 2K DAMAGE EVERY HALF A SECOND? Sorcs don't have any other option than run away and try to LOS.

As someone who plays both mentioned classes (and I enjoy my NBs more than sorcs)9, I can easily compare sload and SB, and guess what? Sload is not even close to how broken SB is.

I hate hypocrisy. When SB was introduced everyone except of sorcs were like "yay awesome", but now when we're getting much less broken set that can be used against anybody suddenly forum fills with threads like this.

Aznox · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

This set has to go.
A set that ignores any counterplay can't be balanced also the set doesn't "just" deal 853 damage.

Would you complain if it was 100 damage / tick ?

Of course no.

This shows there is a reasonable number, somewhere below 853 (or at, or above but i don't think so).

Personally i think the discussion is interesting, but that it's a bit too soon to draw a conclusion.

Even at 100 damage it breaks cloak on each tick making it a hardcounter for nightblades.
That alone is enough for me to hate it, i want to see every single hardcounter, Xv1 tool and imbalance removed from this game and it's possible to do this in less than 2 weeks if someone actually cared for balance.

You care for balance and i do too.

I agree that, in a perfect world, hardcounters shouldn't exist.

But we aren't in a perfect world, and i think hardcounters allow us players to maintain some balance from within the game when the devs are asleep :
- 60% of the playerbase is shield stacking ? Slot shieldbreaker.
- 40% of your opponents in BG use cloak ? Slot sloads

I agree though that these sets should only be seen commonly when the meta needs to rebalance itself, and their usage should naturally disappear after some time. Hardcounters should exist as some limits/safeguards to the effectiveness of specific mechanics.

I do agree that if Sload ends up being a hardcounter to both cloack and shield stack WHILE ALSO being viable against everything else, then the number needs to be lowered.

purple-magicb16_ESO · May 2018

Gorilla wrote: »

Isn't it 10% chance? That's not even close to a guaranteed hit...Do you play with a 10% crit (as an example)?

Right. I have a set with a 50% proc that sometimes never goes off at all during a battle. This is 10% for 6 secs. Just to put this in perspective. Also, tanks don't have a ton of options when it comes to dps. We need to try and make other roles viable in pvp not just dd. And no, I do not have proc envy...

BohnT · May 2018

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

This set has to go.
A set that ignores any counterplay can't be balanced also the set doesn't "just" deal 853 damage.

Would you complain if it was 100 damage / tick ?

Of course no.

This shows there is a reasonable number, somewhere below 853 (or at, or above but i don't think so).

Personally i think the discussion is interesting, but that it's a bit too soon to draw a conclusion.

Even at 100 damage it breaks cloak on each tick making it a hardcounter for nightblades.
That alone is enough for me to hate it, i want to see every single hardcounter, Xv1 tool and imbalance removed from this game and it's possible to do this in less than 2 weeks if someone actually cared for balance.

You care for balance and i do too.

I agree that, in a perfect world, hardcounters shouldn't exist.

But we aren't in a perfect world, and i think hardcounters allow us players to maintain some balance from within the game when the devs are asleep :
- 60% of the playerbase is shield stacking ? Slot shieldbreaker.
- 40% of your opponents in BG use cloak ? Slot sloads

I agree though that these sets should only be seen commonly when the meta needs to rebalance itself, and their usage should naturally disappear after some time. Hardcounters should exist as some limits/safeguards to the effectiveness of specific mechanics.

I do agree that if Sload ends up being a hardcounter to both cloack and shield stack WHILE ALSO being viable against everything else, then the number needs to be lowered.

But that doesn't fix anything.
An issue with specs or certain things being overperfoming can't be fixed by implementing sets that hardcounter them.
It's still unbalanced against anyone not running the hardcounter while the once running hardcounters laugh at them and can wreck players of much higher skill with ease.

Sloads is exactly what you describe to be an issue it's completely op vs shields and cloak while still being one of the best pressure sets in the entire game that's just way too much.

Feanor · May 2018

Also, tanks don't have a ton of options when it comes to dps.

That may be because they’re tanks though probably. And no, you shouldn’t be able to kill someone just by equipping some sets when you run capped resistances on top of 50k HP and a permablock build.

BohnT · May 2018

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

Gorilla wrote: »

Isn't it 10% chance? That's not even close to a guaranteed hit...Do you play with a 10% crit (as an example)?

Right. I have a set with a 50% proc that sometimes never goes off at all during a battle. This is 10% for 6 secs. Just to put this in perspective. Also, tanks don't have a ton of options when it comes to dps. We need to try and make other roles viable in pvp not just dd. And no, I do not have proc envy...

Tanks need to deal viable DPS ? Why bother with DDs then who will die to that tank because he still dishes out good damage while being tanky.
I don't have an issue with DDs not being glasscanons that's just boring but you want a full tank to be able to kill things just by slotting one set.

Horker · May 2018

One of the best topics of the day, more dank memes inc.

Micah_Bayer · May 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Blobsky
If you're gonna make an argument about why it should be nerfed at-least show an example that doesn't put one extreme i.e shieldbreaker & sloads to justify your reasoning(s).

Not everyone nor a large amount of players will be utilizing shield breaker & sloads in BG, Cyrodill, & Dueling. It seems as though you got a mate or a random person to put that on & went to duel them to skew the narrative in your favor.

We all tested it in pts. It's broken dude.

Aznox · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

This set has to go.
A set that ignores any counterplay can't be balanced also the set doesn't "just" deal 853 damage.

Would you complain if it was 100 damage / tick ?

Of course no.

This shows there is a reasonable number, somewhere below 853 (or at, or above but i don't think so).

Personally i think the discussion is interesting, but that it's a bit too soon to draw a conclusion.

Even at 100 damage it breaks cloak on each tick making it a hardcounter for nightblades.
That alone is enough for me to hate it, i want to see every single hardcounter, Xv1 tool and imbalance removed from this game and it's possible to do this in less than 2 weeks if someone actually cared for balance.

You care for balance and i do too.

I agree that, in a perfect world, hardcounters shouldn't exist.

But we aren't in a perfect world, and i think hardcounters allow us players to maintain some balance from within the game when the devs are asleep :
- 60% of the playerbase is shield stacking ? Slot shieldbreaker.
- 40% of your opponents in BG use cloak ? Slot sloads

I agree though that these sets should only be seen commonly when the meta needs to rebalance itself, and their usage should naturally disappear after some time. Hardcounters should exist as some limits/safeguards to the effectiveness of specific mechanics.

I do agree that if Sload ends up being a hardcounter to both cloack and shield stack WHILE ALSO being viable against everything else, then the number needs to be lowered.

But that doesn't fix anything.
An issue with specs or certain things being overperfoming can't be fixed by implementing sets that hardcounter them.
It's still unbalanced against anyone not running the hardcounter while the once running hardcounters laugh at them and can wreck players of much higher skill with ease.

When i write "hardcounter" i mean "sensibly more effective against" not "oneshot these guys with one click"

I agree these counters should be a "last resort" and should be balanced as such.

Sloads is exactly what you describe to be an issue it's completely op vs shields and cloak while still being one of the best pressure sets in the entire game that's just way too much.

I haven't been able to see it first hand, but it's true the number 853 seems a bit high. Give us some days worth of game-time please. (typing this from work ...)

Lets say we make it 600 (or 400 ... random number) : now it's a counter to cloak, ok vs shield, and subpar against everything else.
Looks fine for me.

Emma_Overload · May 2018

Nomen wrote: »

Why dont u complain about sorcs surviving 10+ people opposing and kill em 1 by1.This set is a step to end these weird unhealthy situations. hope lot of people will use it and it will not be nerfed.Shield stack ve been too op till now.

The only way a shield stacking Sorc is going to win against "10+ people" is if they are all TERRIBLE.

The last thing this game needs is more crutch sets for terrible players!

WhipSmartMcoy · May 2018

Name any other set that guarantees 1k damage every second of the fight until the end no matter resistances etc

Sheer Venom

Gnozo · May 2018

WhipSmartMcoy wrote: »

Name any other set that guarantees 1k damage every second of the fight until the end no matter resistances etc

Sheer Venom

No the poison dmg can be shielded and getting mitigatet by resistences. And also doesnt pull u out of cloak.

Feanor · May 2018

WhipSmartMcoy wrote: »

Name any other set that guarantees 1k damage every second of the fight until the end no matter resistances etc

Sheer Venom

Not really.

Bonuses
2 items: Adds 12-1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Adds 1-129 Weapon Damage
4 items: Adds 1-129 Weapon Damage
5 items: When you deal damage with an Execute ability you infect the enemy, dealing 98-8428 Poison Damage over 6 seconds. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

It’s poison damage and thus can be mitigated.

SpiderCultist · May 2018

As soon as the server came live I crafted 4 differents sets of Sload...

BohnT · May 2018

WhipSmartMcoy wrote: »

Name any other set that guarantees 1k damage every second of the fight until the end no matter resistances etc

Sheer Venom

Sheer venom ticks for 300-500 in pvp depending on which build you use it on + as @Gnozo pointed out it has counterplay, lots of it actually.
Additionally the set has a special proc condition and 2,3,4 piece bonuses that it's only useable on stamina classes that use poison injection.

Emma_Overload · May 2018

SpiderCultist wrote: »

As soon as the server came live I crafted 4 differents sets of Sload...

Hell yeah. Just because I'm complaining about it and want it removed, doesn't mean I ain't gonna wear it!

BohnT · May 2018

Hypocrites, Hypocrites everywhere.

xxthir13enxx · May 2018

Azurya wrote: »

and best about it, it is craftable, no long grind to have it!
think I give it a try on my stamsorc

Heh and only 6 traits at that... this set would of made more sense as a 9 trait set...ah well...will be interesting to see if changed before PS4 launch

BohnT · May 2018

Sloads Users fighting NBs and Sorcs

Takes-No-Prisoner · May 2018

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

and best about it, it is craftable, no long grind to have it!
think I give it a try on my stamsorc

Heh and only 6 traits at that... this set would of made more sense as a 9 trait set...ah well...will be interesting to see if changed before PS4 launch

Until then, lets pass the popcorn around.

Though if it doesn't get changed for console, I'll have to put purge in my flex skill slot!

technohic · May 2018

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

and best about it, it is craftable, no long grind to have it!
think I give it a try on my stamsorc

Heh and only 6 traits at that... this set would of made more sense as a 9 trait set...ah well...will be interesting to see if changed before PS4 launch

Until then, lets pass the popcorn around.

Though if it doesn't get changed for console, I'll have to put purge in my flex skill slot!

Can’t purge it I thought?

Koolio · May 2018

Between this thread and the other 7.5k views for Sload threads with 300+ comments and no dev comment. Seems strange to me.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/412553/can-anyone-check-if-they-fixed-sloads-breaking-cloak-please#latest