Wykkyd, that's part of the reason that I stopped hosting on Curse a ways back when I modded games. I was never as prolific, or as good, as you and some other modders and I thank you for the work you've done. Most people don't realize how much work goes into making even a small mod so I, and I'm sure others, appreciate your efforts.

As for hosting, attribution is paramount in the importance scale, and the best thing that can be done is make people aware that sites are hosting without permission and attribution. A DMCA should really be a last resort, and is within your rights, but execution is tough, and demonstrates that fighting copyright violations are hard to manage for most people, especially for authors without many resources.

Thanks for the headsup on esocore, saw it in game last night as well, but it's good to see it hit a somewhat wider audience here.

Any thing created under the (l)gpl license is open source, they don't need permission to use any thing, you put it on the internet your *** out of luck. You don't need to give em your source code, you can make them ask, you can also specify that no one can re-distribute the addons with out a credit to the original author in both the source code, and or the description of the Addon its self.

Yes I agree that it's wrong that they host these items and push them off as their own, with out giving any credit to the people that made them, I wont use their site because of this. But unless you created this and copyrighted it etc... You're out of luck and they can use it if they want.

Hey Wykkyd is there no way for you to implement your name into the folder structure of the mod, while adding tamper-proofing to the coding to prevent the folders from being renamed, meanwhile putting in a second tamper proofing built into the functionality that calls on this first tamper proof - thus disabling the addon and giving a specific error if any of the aforementioned is tampered with?

This would work in a similar way to most PHP scripts - whereby if you modify something even slightly, you get hit with an error and it basically isn't preventable unless they know your code better than you. Even so, doing this would make it too much of an hassle for them to care about.

I would say your name being stripped is the only counteractable problem, since esocore is only acting as a sort of archival tool/search engine. You wouldn't moan at Google linking your content, so the best you could do here is what I said above, and make attribution to yourself embedded into the files with tamper proofing.

gurahamu wrote: »

Hey Wykkyd is there no way for you to implement your name into the folder structure of the mod, while adding tamper-proofing to the coding to prevent the folders from being renamed, meanwhile putting in a second tamper proofing built into the functionality that calls on this first tamper proof - thus disabling the addon and giving a specific error if any of the aforementioned is tampered with?

This would work in a similar way to most PHP scripts - whereby if you modify something even slightly, you get hit with an error and it basically isn't preventable unless they know your code better than you. Even so, doing this would make it too much of an hassle for them to care about.

I would say your name being stripped is the only counteractable problem, since esocore is only acting as a sort of archival tool/search engine. You wouldn't moan at Google linking your content, so the best you could do here is what I said above, and make attribution to yourself embedded into the files with tamper proofing.

You're wrong. ESOCORE is hosting its own copies of the addon. If all they were doing was linking back to ESOUI or CURSE or NEXUSMODS (like google would do) I wouldn't care. That would be perfectly fine. Do you not see the difference?

jesse.sawyer09ub17_ESO wrote: »

It does suck...but you could always try not getting your *** because someone took your free, freely distributed bit of code and did what they wanted with it. That's what free means...that anybody who wants it can have it. Say you grew an orange and I wanted a tasty orange. Out of the goodness of your heart, you give the orange, no charge. It is now my orange, and I can do with it as I please. Sure, it would be shady of me if people admired my new orange and asked where I got it and I claimed I grew it myself...but that's a choice. If the orange grower didn't want that to happen, they should not give away their oranges. Or, they should take pride in the growing rather than the "fame" they gain from it.

an orange is something anyone can grow, and they are all basically the same. they are oranges. now if someone invented a synthetic orange that had 2x the nutrients and maybe tasted more like a banana, that's intellectual property and can be given away for free or sold by the inventor. if the inventor gave you this synthetic orange, it is yours, but you didn't make it. you can do what you want with it, until you decide to sell it claiming it as your own. that's where there's a problem. you are right, if an orange grower doesn't want others to claim his oranges are theirs, he shouldn't give them away. but the orange is not intellectual property. the synthetic orange is. nobody wants their intellectual property stolen, even if its generously given away for free

Sigh...you guys miss the point by over complicating it. Also, I didn't say he was being unreasonable. Just pointing out that he can't expect better.

Also, he probably shouldn't be using the forum paid for and provided by another company to further his agenda. Perhaps he should make a website for the fans of his addons/mods to follow his work on, and post his boycott request there, to the people who would care the most.

There's an entire faction of people in the world who don't think inventors, manufacturers and produces have a -right- to what they create. I disagree with them and was merely pointing out what should be obvious to anybody who has interacted with the world in even the slightest amount. People steal things. Either learn to not let it bother you, or stop putting things where they can be stolen.

jesse.sawyer09ub17_ESO wrote: »

There's an entire faction of people in the world who don't think inventors, manufacturers and produces have a -right- to what they create. I disagree with them and was merely pointing out what should be obvious to anybody who has interacted with the world in even the slightest amount. People steal things. Either learn to not let it bother you, or stop putting things where they can be stolen.

that's a terrible attitude to have. if creators adopted that attitude, there would be no accountability for theft. just because it's going to happen anyway doesn't mean you should just roll over and let it.

odinwise wrote: »

jesse.sawyer09ub17_ESO wrote: »

There's an entire faction of people in the world who don't think inventors, manufacturers and produces have a -right- to what they create. I disagree with them and was merely pointing out what should be obvious to anybody who has interacted with the world in even the slightest amount. People steal things. Either learn to not let it bother you, or stop putting things where they can be stolen.

that's a terrible attitude to have. if creators adopted that attitude, there would be no accountability for theft. just because it's going to happen anyway doesn't mean you should just roll over and let it.

Either you're one of those people who just looks for any opportunity to argue, or your reading comprehension isn't high enough that you should be posting in public.

"Either learn to not let it bother you, or stop putting things where they can be stolen."

The above sentence does not promote "rolling over". It specifically says either change your attitude so that you take pride in what you do and it doesn't bother you that people less skilled and unethical are claiming your work, OR don't put it where they can. Those are both paths of action, not inaction. There are many ways these things can be done. He could have a website where he hosts his work and charge a nominal 1$/month membership. He could write his addons so they only work if installed by a launcher he's programmed. There are choices to be made, which choices are of course up to him. If you want to be technical and all nit-picky, complaining about it rather than doing something to fix it is the real "rolling over".

You obviously were on the "music should be free for all" side of the argument on MP3 theft too. And while they, and addons, are certainly not the same thing it is still a matter of intellectual property, rights and development support. I get that you don't agree. Fine. Do you need to pollute the thread by arguing with everyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you? You're obviously not of the popular opinion. Call it what it is and move on. You have voiced your opinion extensively.

Childish insults aren't doing your point any justice.

Etchesketch wrote: »

Site blocked..

Just poppin in to say thanks to Wykkyd for all the hard work on the best addons by far.

ditto thanks for all your work on mods

Wykkyd wrote: »

Just so everyone knows: This copyright notice on their site was changed after I stepped in and challenged them. Prior to my involvement their copyright notice stated, "Copyright ESOCore, all rights reserved.".

However, I did the following:

• Called GoDaddy
• Emailed the owner (who them changed his listing with GoDaddy to private)
• Contacted ESOUI (Cairenn)
• Contacted Hostinger
• Contacted ESOCore's download host & issued DMCA's for each addon

AFTER all of that he removed most of my addons. Renamed one of my addons to simply "Outfitter Addon" and left it up. Then changed his Copyright notice to be more "safe".

Ahh very good to know. Today was the first time I have even heard of that site, so it was my first time looking at it.

Hopefully GoDaddy or someone will 'take care' of this site.

Thanks for the notice. I use some of your Work and have to say, you're a very good Modder. Much appreciated.
Good to know that Curse and ESOUI do treat Modders with respect, as they are my main Source for ESO Mods.
I will avoid ESOCore.
Keep on the great work and i wish you good luck and success with your Fight.

jesse.sawyer09ub17_ESO wrote: »

I don't know how to write it so it's easier to understand... Ugh..I'um thinkums dat it be sucky for'ums ta take you's work without crediting you's.

From what you're saying in this thread, the fact Wykkyd's mods were hosted without his permission is sucky, but even them making a thread saying so is over-reacting, and they should 'always try not getting your *** because someone took your free, freely distributed bit of code and did what they wanted with it', to use the (mod edited) phrase you employed, so your suggested course of action amounts to Wykkyd shrugging their shoulders and basically going '***-hum, what a shame, never mind', and that's basically about it. Without even considering any legal aspect, it's simply common courtesy to ask permission of the creator of something before hosting it and distributing copies of it, even if it's a free mod. All Wykkyd did was post a thread on here letting people know that this website, in particular, cannot even be bothered to extend that basic level of common courtesy. That, plus the fact they can't even be bothered to use their own bandwidth to host mods (the download links lead to a third-party web-share site, filesnack.com) makes this website really rather scuzzy, so it's one I will definitely be avoiding, so, if nothing else, I owe thanks to Wykkyd for that alone, and this thread serves a purpose.

I'm sorry you think I'm "polluting" the thread because I'm not jumping on the bandwagon with a burning torch and pitchfork. First of all, if I was actually disagreeing with you and you thought that because I'm not of the "popular opinion" that I shouldn't voice my opinion at all, you'd just be a fascist.

No, you voiced your opinion, and others voiced their opinion of your opinion, which can be summarised as being that your opinion was that of a complete arsehole, and thus more or less constituted pollution of the discussion.

Secondly, I get the feeling that you think I'm disagreeing with you because I'm recommending that instead of complaining, you actually do something about it.

No, actually, you're really recommending doing, effectively, nothing about it, whilst claiming that you're not.

Just wanted to post and say thanks to Wykkyd for your great addons and I will definitely tell all my friends and guildies to avoid ESOCORE.

As far as the actual problem goes, if they stripped your name out of the add-on, (note; I am still trying to learn to use LUA) something you might be able to do is add some variables using your name as a portion then a routine that converts the portion of the variable your name into hex or ascii or some other form of notation. The routine would then compare the converted notation against a static somewhere in the code and if it is not the same it would not work. Something along those lines anyway. I assume what they did was use a text editor to search for all instances of your name and strip it out.

Is there not a Hash generator that takes into account the date? Is so require people requesting assistance to generate a hash of the addon folder specific to your addon and then compare it to one you generate if it is valid the give em assistance if not tell em to download from the "authorized" sites first. Any changes made to your LUA should cause the hash to change.

See this for a utility to do just this

http://windowsitpro.com/security/how-can-i-generate-hash-value-file-or-folder


Something along these line should not be too hard to do and would maek the lives of anyone trying to claim your work as thier own much more difficult.

Just some ideas. Keep up the good work, I will make sure I get my addons only from ESOUI

Mera Luna