Did dual wield magblade die with summerset?

teiselaise · May 2018

So, i play 2 characters, my main and a crafter who i only craft on. My main, who is an argonian nightblade is currently specced as a dual wield/resto pvp magblade. I haven't played the game for a long while and if i played it i never updated my build so my build is 2 - 3 patches old. I run grothdar shaclebreaker and warmaiden with only 5 warmaiden on dual wield bar. So i have to update my build no matter what if i want to return to the game, wich i desperately do. I read trough the patchnotes for summerset yesterday and noticed they said that two handed weapons will count as 2 gear items now, wich almost makes dual wield pointless, dual wield have an extra enchant slot and can mix traits thats something i suppose, but two handed got forward momentum. I also believe they made it so that dual wield and two handed gets the same amount of damage from twin blade and blunt/ heavy weapons. So what i wanted to know is am i correct in that dual wield is pointless compared to two handed now? I will probably keep playing since i don't really care about if i am the most op character, just as long as im sorta viable. I'd also love to know what sets are popular in summerset for my class and im interested in hearing if hybrids are still frowned upon or if they have gotten pretty good ^^. AaaaaaAnd, any info on a nightblade pve build that aren't too demanding to achieve so i can get back into dungeons and get some gear, preferably tank but i believe that is as frowned upon as much as hybrids

Thanks!

LegacyDM · May 2018

Yes. There is absolutely no reason to dual wield. 2 piece bonus, la weave from range, and 3% more damage if using a fire staff with s slotted skill. Zos killed it.

Zaan
Grothdaar
Skoria

Sload set
Overwhelming set
Cuulrions legacy
Bsw set
Rattlecage set
Spinners
Necropetence
Shacklebreaker
Warmaiden
Julianos pve
twiceborn pve
Kragernacs pve
Various others are all viable for mageblade.

Some interesting sets to consider now that we can change jewelry traits.

Fasallas guile
Wyrde tree
Shalks

teiselaise · May 2018

LegacyDM wrote: »

Yes. There is absolutely no reason to dual wield. 2 piece bonus, la weave from range, and 3% more damage if using a fire staff with s slotted skill. Zos killed it.

Zaan
Grothdaar
Skoria

Sload set
Overwhelming set
Cuulrions legacy
Bsw set
Rattlecage set
Spinners
Necropetence
Shacklebreaker
Warmaiden
Julianos pve
twiceborn pve
Kragernacs pve
Various others are all viable for mageblade.

Alright thanks for the info ^^

ChefZero · May 2018

Yep, it's pointless. You can use Restro, Destro, 2H or S&B (for a beefy build using shield wall).

teiselaise · May 2018

ChefZero wrote: »

Yep, it's pointless. You can use Restro, Destro, 2H or S&B (for a beefy build using shield wall).

It makes me sad

i hope zos changes it again in the future

thanks for the reply.

ChefZero · May 2018

teiselaise wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Yep, it's pointless. You can use Restro, Destro, 2H or S&B (for a beefy build using shield wall).

It makes me sad i hope zos changes it again in the future thanks for the reply.

Why? Style factor?

teiselaise · May 2018

ChefZero wrote: »

teiselaise wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Yep, it's pointless. You can use Restro, Destro, 2H or S&B (for a beefy build using shield wall).

It makes me sad i hope zos changes it again in the future thanks for the reply.

Why? Style factor?

Of course ^^ I would play stamblade if it synergized better with argonians and was a little more flashy

ShadowMonarch · May 2018

Well you can get the 2 piece bonus from a staff now(soon as summerset drops), and if you still want to play melee magblade you can use a 2hand and get snare removal.

ChefZero · May 2018

teiselaise wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

teiselaise wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Yep, it's pointless. You can use Restro, Destro, 2H or S&B (for a beefy build using shield wall).

It makes me sad i hope zos changes it again in the future thanks for the reply.

Why? Style factor?

Of course ^^ I would play stamblade if it synergized better with argonians and was a little more flashy

Well, I am on the other and happy now with 2H cause of soul shriven and tsaesci sword style

elfantasmo · May 2018

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Well you can get the 2 piece bonus from a staff now(soon as summerset drops), and if you still want to play melee magblade you can use a 2hand and get snare removal.

This.

It is a huge buff to Melee mageblade imo! Plus the passives from 2h;

Follow Up - When you deal damage with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, your next direct damage attack used within 7 seconds deals an additional 10% damage. HA, Incap = kapow!
Battle Rush - Increases your Stamina Recovery by 30% for 10 seconds after killing a target.
Heavy Weapons - Swords increase your damage done by 5%. Yea a 3% loss from flame staff but so what, follow up makes up for that. Melee mageblade is all about kite and cloak. So with FM it makes you very strong.

I might even try melee magplar for some increase in kiteability!

Aedaryl · May 2018

elfantasmo wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Well you can get the 2 piece bonus from a staff now(soon as summerset drops), and if you still want to play melee magblade you can use a 2hand and get snare removal.

This.

It is a huge buff to Melee mageblade imo! Plus the passives from 2h;

Follow Up - When you deal damage with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, your next direct damage attack used within 7 seconds deals an additional 10% damage. HA, Incap = kapow!
Battle Rush - Increases your Stamina Recovery by 30% for 10 seconds after killing a target.
Heavy Weapons - Swords increase your damage done by 5%. Yea a 3% loss from flame staff but so what, follow up makes up for that. Melee mageblade is all about kite and cloak. So with FM it makes you very strong.

I might even try melee magplar for some increase in kiteability!

A nirn 2h have around 300 more spell damage than a nirn fire staff, making 2h dealing more damage than fire staff.

ChefZero · May 2018

teiselaise wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

teiselaise wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Yep, it's pointless. You can use Restro, Destro, 2H or S&B (for a beefy build using shield wall).

It makes me sad i hope zos changes it again in the future thanks for the reply.

Why? Style factor?

Of course ^^ I would play stamblade if it synergized better with argonians and was a little more flashy

Well, I am on the other and happy now with 2H cause of soulshriven and

Aedaryl wrote: »

elfantasmo wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Well you can get the 2 piece bonus from a staff now(soon as summerset drops), and if you still want to play melee magblade you can use a 2hand and get snare removal.

This.

It is a huge buff to Melee mageblade imo! Plus the passives from 2h;

Follow Up - When you deal damage with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, your next direct damage attack used within 7 seconds deals an additional 10% damage. HA, Incap = kapow!
Battle Rush - Increases your Stamina Recovery by 30% for 10 seconds after killing a target.
Heavy Weapons - Swords increase your damage done by 5%. Yea a 3% loss from flame staff but so what, follow up makes up for that. Melee mageblade is all about kite and cloak. So with FM it makes you very strong.

I might even try melee magplar for some increase in kiteability!

A nirn 2h have around 300 more spell damage than a nirn fire staff, making 2h dealing more damage than fire staff.

+ Psijic spamable will be an improvement for some melee magicka build's

Vaoh · May 2018

ALL Magicka DW incentive is gone. There is truly no reason to use DW if you are a Magicka character anymore. Destro is better for damage in all ways.

So yes, DW Magblade died. My DW Mag Sorc also died

2H is a completely superior option due to better passives and Forward Momemtum btw. The only thing DW has over 2H is duel enchants - not worth it in the slightest.

Aedaryl · May 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

ALL Magicka DW incentive is gone. There is truly no reason to use DW if you are a Magicka character anymore. Destro is better for damage in all ways.

So yes, DW Magblade died. My DW Mag Sorc also died

2H is a completely superior option due to better passives and Forward Momemtum btw. The only thing DW has over 2H is duel enchants - not worth it in the slightest.

2h > all for melee magblade.

You can easely have very good stats with it + Zaan and be a true nightmare with big sustain and big damage.

Don't tell it to mum : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=47866

ChefZero · May 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

ALL Magicka DW incentive is gone. There is truly no reason to use DW if you are a Magicka character anymore. Destro is better for damage in all ways.

So yes, DW Magblade died. My DW Mag Sorc also died

2H is a completely superior option due to better passives and Forward Momemtum btw. The only thing DW has over 2H is duel enchants - not worth it in the slightest.

2h > all for melee magblade.

You can easely have very good stats with it + Zaan and be a true nightmare with big sustain and big damage.
Don't tell it to mum : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=47866

Lol 2,6k regen. Nice build!

fred4 · May 2018

teiselaise wrote: »

I read trough the patchnotes for summerset yesterday and noticed they said that two handed weapons will count as 2 gear items now, wich almost makes dual wield pointless, dual wield have an extra enchant slot and can mix traits thats something i suppose, but two handed got forward momentum.

Personally I value Forward Momentum so much, I already consider it the better option for melee magblade.

I also believe they made it so that dual wield and two handed gets the same amount of damage from twin blade and blunt/ heavy weapons.

Been like that for a long time.

So what i wanted to know is am i correct in that dual wield is pointless compared to two handed now?

Well, a mix of, for example, Nirn (main hand) and Sharpened (off hand) would give you more damage, I think, but you would have to test that. Also two different enchants don't share the same cooldown and could yield more damage, if you weave light attacks. Furthermore there is/was a bug/feature that reduced the enchantment cooldown of both hands by having an Infused off-hand weapon. Again, you'd have to test whether this is still the case.

I'd also love to know what sets are popular in summerset for my class

For melee magblade: Caluurion's Legacy, front bar only. Run a Willpower resto to get more mag for shields on the back bar.

and im interested in hearing if hybrids are still frowned upon

Err ... who cares ... if they worked ... which they mostly did not.

or if they have gotten pretty good

Yes. Watch Kristofer ESO on YouTube.

kaithuzar · May 2018

Lol, you guys are late to the party. I rocked 2h melee magblade all last patch, the new thing I'm working on is a hybrid build that will in theory be the next evolution of that playstyle

ChefZero · May 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

Lol, you guys are late to the party. I rocked 2h melee magblade all last patch, the new thing I'm working on is a hybrid build that will in theory be the next evolution of that playstyle

Will you do damage by DoTs or burst?

Beardimus · May 2018

Agreed that its the death of MagDW sadly.

As others have said 2H for Magika is already better than DW. But that aside its a big self Nerf not to run a staff.

Im gutted. I see no reason for ZOS killing off this playstyle and diversity in weopon choice. Wizards with wands is very dull, and on console at least the laggy bar swap crap at least DW you know which at you are on

Berenhir · May 2018

DW still has an advantage over 2h as the nirnhoned mainhand of DW has the same effect as a nirnhoned 2h while you can get another trait on your offhand (e.g. infused, which lowers the cooldown of both glyphs or sharpened for extra pen).

Maybe not appealing for everyone but not completely useless.

raasdal · May 2018

Yep. DW is dead for everybody except those actually using the DW Skills.

For either Stam / Mag, 2H has WAY better passives.
For Mag, Destro / Resto has WAY better passives.

So my melee Magplar and melee MagNB will go 2H frontbar and Destro or Resto backbar. My ranged builds will be Destro / Resto or Destro / 2H (FM ftw).

On Stamina, NB's will change from DW to 2H frontbar, since again - passives are SO much better on 2H for using class abilities.

kaithuzar · May 2018

ChefZero wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Lol, you guys are late to the party. I rocked 2h melee magblade all last patch, the new thing I'm working on is a hybrid build that will in theory be the next evolution of that playstyle

Will you do damage by DoTs or burst?

While dot builds will be more popular, I'm doing a burst build as it's what I like to play.
I hope they never nerf incap, as incap+will or incap+merciless is 90% of our burst dmg.

I've never really considered a magicka toon with enough stam to break free or roll dodge, or a stamina toon with enough magic to cloak/shade, a hybrid.
But the ability to use a mix of mag+stam offensive skills & sustain, this will be interesting

Takes-No-Prisoner · May 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

ALL Magicka DW incentive is gone. There is truly no reason to use DW if you are a Magicka character anymore. Destro is better for damage in all ways.

So yes, DW Magblade died. My DW Mag Sorc also died

2H is a completely superior option due to better passives and Forward Momemtum btw. The only thing DW has over 2H is duel enchants - not worth it in the slightest.

2h > all for melee magblade.

You can easely have very good stats with it + Zaan and be a true nightmare with big sustain and big damage.
Don't tell it to mum : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=47866

Neat.

With Summerset, I might consider running 2h. I love weird builds.

ChefZero · May 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Lol, you guys are late to the party. I rocked 2h melee magblade all last patch, the new thing I'm working on is a hybrid build that will in theory be the next evolution of that playstyle

Will you do damage by DoTs or burst?

While dot builds will be more popular, I'm doing a burst build as it's what I like to play.
I hope they never nerf incap, as incap+will or incap+merciless is 90% of our burst dmg.

I've never really considered a magicka toon with enough stam to break free or roll dodge, or a stamina toon with enough magic to cloak/shade, a hybrid.
But the ability to use a mix of mag+stam offensive skills & sustain, this will be interesting

You can try a burst hybrid build but IMO it will (should) never be viable (maybe by using broken sets or mechanics). The mantra for hybrids defense wise is to achieve a high survivability by dodge roll and hots so you don't waist many GCD for your defense. Offensive wise you have a bigger pool of usable skills but for burst you only need 2 or 3. Means the real advantage is using magic, physical and Oblivion damage based DoTs strengths by bypassing many defensive mechanics like shields, blocking and high migrations.

Baconlad · May 2018

Magplar here. I don't heavy attack on DW bar...why would I waste the time channeling a DW heavy or 2H heavy just for 10 increase. Even for magblade I would see two light attack surprise weave better than heavy surprise weave.

As for magplar, I still think most builds are better off with DW more damage to channels. I don't know I'll have to test the damage. I really still think it's completely unfair we have to slot a destroy ability for the passives.

Destroy staff should give us a flat 8% increase to all abilities no matter the staff type or skills slotted. There aren't any destroy abilities that are better on my bar than what's already there. Having said that I still think DW is better for me and my build. We will see though. Having to choose between AoE and single target damage is a PITA

Knootewoot · May 2018

I am still dual wield magblade. But there is no point staying one, except style reasons. I'll stick to it, but have a destro staff ready.

Vizier · May 2018

Can't think of any reason not to use 2H any more. As it is it was already the go to even without the 5 piece bonus. This breaks the game unless they fundamentally change the way one handed weapons work in PvP. As is no "playstyle" will benefit from using them instead of a 2H. It's kind of sad the forum QQ'rs were listened to regarding this.

kaithuzar · May 2018

ChefZero wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Lol, you guys are late to the party. I rocked 2h melee magblade all last patch, the new thing I'm working on is a hybrid build that will in theory be the next evolution of that playstyle

Will you do damage by DoTs or burst?

While dot builds will be more popular, I'm doing a burst build as it's what I like to play.
I hope they never nerf incap, as incap+will or incap+merciless is 90% of our burst dmg.

I've never really considered a magicka toon with enough stam to break free or roll dodge, or a stamina toon with enough magic to cloak/shade, a hybrid.
But the ability to use a mix of mag+stam offensive skills & sustain, this will be interesting

You can try a burst hybrid build but IMO it will (should) never be viable (maybe by using broken sets or mechanics). The mantra for hybrids defense wise is to achieve a high survivability by dodge roll and hots so you don't waist many GCD for your defense. Offensive wise you have a bigger pool of usable skills but for burst you only need 2 or 3. Means the real advantage is using magic, physical and Oblivion damage based DoTs strengths by bypassing many defensive mechanics like shields, blocking and high migrations.

What you're saying is true in the general sense however, I've came up with something rather interesting that should bypass the issues.
I'll post after I finish building & testing.
I'm actually super excited because it makes sense in my head & may make sense to others when I mention;)