Let's buff medium armor (a brainstorming thread)

BlackLabel · May 2018

I know there has been multiple threads regarding the state of medium armor, but I thought it might be helpful to create a brainstorming thread for suggestions to buff medium armor. I'm hoping this thread can be an area where we take in all suggestions, and respectfully analyze and screen suggestions to find a neutral and balanced ground.

I find it is hard to move from heavy to medium because there are heavy stes such as seventh and fury that give you more weapon damage than you would have in medium, while allowing for bearable sustain and better tankiness.

Some basic suggestions ( doesnt need to be all)

replace the sneak passive with penetration
lower cost for shuffle
increase the sustain passives

what would you guys like to see?

Ragnarock41 · May 2018

Want to buff medium armor? Sure, after a stamblade nerf though. If you want other classes to actually use it that is.(or buff other stam classes in general. Stamblade is way too dominant against medium armor targets.)

I would prefer making shuffle give 1 second snare immunity per piece of medium armor

So with 6 med-1 heavy you would be sitting at 6 seconds of snare immunity. Pretty decent and would compete against forward momentum nicely.

sustain passives are good enough. It also has cost reduction aswell, and on top of that dodge cost reduction. Its pretty dank stronk.

As with changing sneak with penetration, it is a bit risky there. While sneak is useless for anything except stamblades, even more free stats to medium would completely break the reasoning to use heavy armor.(medium brass/impreg is already very competitive with heavy,lets not make it even more stronger. Don't forget the mobility benefits too.)

I would say what should be done is , giving other classes the ability to play as assassins.Yes, I'm talking about giving a weaker version of cloak to all classes. And before salty stamblades come up with their ''hurr durr class identity'', you can play your stamblade like a heavy armor DK, so I should be able to play my Dk like a medium armor nightblade. Just like how we have alliance purge for non-templar healers in PvP, everyone could benefit from a non-nightblade cloak.(to balance the ability it should be locked into 5+ medium, like shuffle obviously.We wouldn't really want heavy armor Dk/templars abusing this like they did with shuffle.) There, now everyone can play sneaky.

And NO, heavy does not give you more damage anymore. it was the case for some sets like fury-seventh-ravager etc. All of those can be used in a medium setup now. Without sacrificing anything at all, thanks to jewelrycrafting.

testd4n1 · May 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Want to buff medium armor? Sure, after a stamblade nerf though. If you want other classes to actually use it that is.

And NO, heavy does not give you more damage. it was the case for some sets like fury-seventh-ravager etc. All of those can be used in a medium setup now. Without sacrificing anything at all, thanks to jewelrycrafting.

StamNB's have horrid sustain. I main a stamNB but have been using a sorc since I'm expecting stam to have less of a role in end game PvE come summerset. I got back on him yesterday and 80% of the time I had NO resources. You get used to having plenty of resources to spare on mag characters.

Ragnarock41 · May 2018

testd4n1 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Want to buff medium armor? Sure, after a stamblade nerf though. If you want other classes to actually use it that is.

And NO, heavy does not give you more damage. it was the case for some sets like fury-seventh-ravager etc. All of those can be used in a medium setup now. Without sacrificing anything at all, thanks to jewelrycrafting.

StamNB's have horrid sustain. I main a stamNB but have been using a sorc since I'm expecting stam to have less of a role in end game PvE come summerset. I got back on him yesterday and 80% of the time I had NO resources. You get used to having plenty of resources to spare on mag characters.

Thats more about how braindead easy sorc sustain is. A stamblade in PvP usually runs around with 2-3k stamina regen and 1k+ mag regen. That is pretty damn high for a class that is designed for ''assassinating'', Not outsustaining. Thats Dk's job.

And stamina is getting nerfed in general for PvE. Not really a nb specific case here.

BlackLabel · May 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Want to buff medium armor? Sure, after a stamblade nerf though. If you want other classes to actually use it that is.(or buff other stam classes in general. Stamblade is way too dominant against medium armor targets.)

I would prefer making shuffle give 1 second snare immunity per piece of medium armor

So with 6 med-1 heavy you would be sitting at 6 seconds of snare immunity. Pretty decent and would compete against forward momentum nicely.

sustain passives are good enough. It also has cost reduction aswell, and on top of that dodge cost reduction. Its pretty dank stronk.

As with changing sneak with penetration, it is a bit risky there. While sneak is useless for anything except stamblades, even more free stats to medium would completely break the reasoning to use heavy armor.(medium brass/impreg is already very competitive with heavy,lets not make it even more stronger. Don't forget the mobility benefits too.)

I would say what should be done is , giving other classes the ability to play as assassins.Yes, I'm talking about giving a weaker version of cloak to all classes. And before salty stamblades come up with their ''hurr durr class identity'', you can play your stamblade like a heavy armor DK, so I should be able to play my Dk like a medium armor nightblade. Just like how we have alliance purge for non-templar healers in PvP, everyone could benefit from a non-nightblade cloak.(to balance the ability it should be locked into 5+ medium, like shuffle obviously.We wouldn't really want heavy armor Dk/templars abusing this like they did with shuffle.) There, now everyone can play sneaky.

And NO, heavy does not give you more damage anymore. it was the case for some sets like fury-seventh-ravager etc. All of those can be used in a medium setup now. Without sacrificing anything at all, thanks to jewelrycrafting.

I feel (as well as many others) that there is very little incentive to choose medium over heavy. We need to find and present solutions to fix this imbalance and allow other classes besides nightblade a to run medium. I for one feel I need to run heavy because I constantly need to me mindful of nightblades incaping my brains out.

Also coming with this next patch I am sure we will see more imbalance/ spread with the choice between heavy and medium with the possibility to run both seventh, fury, and a monster set.

Ragnarock41 · May 2018

BlackLabel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Want to buff medium armor? Sure, after a stamblade nerf though. If you want other classes to actually use it that is.(or buff other stam classes in general. Stamblade is way too dominant against medium armor targets.)

I would prefer making shuffle give 1 second snare immunity per piece of medium armor

So with 6 med-1 heavy you would be sitting at 6 seconds of snare immunity. Pretty decent and would compete against forward momentum nicely.

sustain passives are good enough. It also has cost reduction aswell, and on top of that dodge cost reduction. Its pretty dank stronk.

As with changing sneak with penetration, it is a bit risky there. While sneak is useless for anything except stamblades, even more free stats to medium would completely break the reasoning to use heavy armor.(medium brass/impreg is already very competitive with heavy,lets not make it even more stronger. Don't forget the mobility benefits too.)

I would say what should be done is , giving other classes the ability to play as assassins.Yes, I'm talking about giving a weaker version of cloak to all classes. And before salty stamblades come up with their ''hurr durr class identity'', you can play your stamblade like a heavy armor DK, so I should be able to play my Dk like a medium armor nightblade. Just like how we have alliance purge for non-templar healers in PvP, everyone could benefit from a non-nightblade cloak.(to balance the ability it should be locked into 5+ medium, like shuffle obviously.We wouldn't really want heavy armor Dk/templars abusing this like they did with shuffle.) There, now everyone can play sneaky.

And NO, heavy does not give you more damage anymore. it was the case for some sets like fury-seventh-ravager etc. All of those can be used in a medium setup now. Without sacrificing anything at all, thanks to jewelrycrafting.

I feel (as well as many others) that there is very little incentive to choose medium over heavy. We need to find and present solutions to fix this imbalance and allow other classes besides nightblade a to run medium. I for one feel I need to run heavy because I constantly need to me mindful of nightblades incaping my brains out.

Also coming with this next patch I am sure we will see more imbalance/ spread with the choice between heavy and medium with the possibility to run both seventh, fury, and a monster set.

As I said, people choose heavy over medium, because playing medium like its supposed to play, on anything other than stamblade, results in a disaster. Simply buffing medium armor will change absolutely nothing, and will only make stamblade even more dominant.

The solution is to make other classes have the options for that fast playstyle of medium. Yes, I'm mainly talking about stamDk/stamsorc here. They could benefit greatly from improved weapon skills that can at least compete with what stamblades have.

other than that, impossible to fail burst combos like magsorcs have, is also cancerous against medium armor.(Thanks wrobel for buffing rune cage lmao,enjoy getting one shot consistantly or go heavy basically.)

Waffennacht · May 2018

Me? I've always liked crit resistance for medium.

ShadowMonarch · May 2018

Giving more dodge chance or snare immunity is not a smart idea.

Medium armor has its place.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

Medium armor is OP which is why competitive trials groups will intentionally bring magicka players that deal less damage. Because the survivability of medium armor is OP. Yeah.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

testd4n1 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Want to buff medium armor? Sure, after a stamblade nerf though. If you want other classes to actually use it that is.

And NO, heavy does not give you more damage. it was the case for some sets like fury-seventh-ravager etc. All of those can be used in a medium setup now. Without sacrificing anything at all, thanks to jewelrycrafting.

StamNB's have horrid sustain. I main a stamNB but have been using a sorc since I'm expecting stam to have less of a role in end game PvE come summerset. I got back on him yesterday and 80% of the time I had NO resources. You get used to having plenty of resources to spare on mag characters.

Thats more about how braindead easy sorc sustain is. A stamblade in PvP usually runs around with 2-3k stamina regen and 1k+ mag regen. That is pretty damn high for a class that is designed for ''assassinating'', Not outsustaining. Thats Dk's job.

And stamina is getting nerfed in general for PvE. Not really a nb specific case here.

Stamblades make great litmus tests in PvP. If you struggle against them then it's a L2P issue. May I suggest making a stamblade in order to get a better understanding on they play, and what works best against them. Maybe I could offer you a few tips; what class do you play?

Minno · May 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Me? I've always liked crit resistance for medium.

I thought the same, till you realize impreg with sustain from melee heavy attacks is superior enough to nulify that suggestion.

The only fix they can do, is make the duration of shuffle snare immunity to be superior against forward momentum if ZOS is going to force players to spend almost 4k stamina for 15% dodge chance.

Or match the cost/duration as FM.

Otherwise its balanced around impreg/dual maces in pvp.

Minno · May 2018

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Giving more dodge chance or snare immunity is not a smart idea.

Medium armor has its place.

As the mobility armor that has to use a giant weapon to get 8s snare immunity for under 2k stam cost?

Nah, they can at least have the duration match FM with the almost 4k stam cost be for the 15% dodge chance balance.

Zeromaz · May 2018

I think the passives in medium are fine. Maybe buff shuffle as an insentive to play medium. Possibly keep the dodge chance, extend the snare immunity duration, increase sprint speed, as well as drastically reduce sprint cost

olsborg · May 2018

ZOS gotta be real careful if buffing medium armor because it works very well on certain classes/builds and not well at all on others. Id like to just see a slight buff to medium armor defence, say give you X amount of critical resistance if you wear 5 or more pieces so you dont get bursted so easily. I mean, youre in medium armor youre basically an acrobat and its logical that its not easy to critically hit you over the head...so to speak.

BlackLabel · May 2018

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Giving more dodge chance or snare immunity is not a smart idea.

Medium armor has its place.

I can see your point there. I wouldn’t suggest giving more dodge chance, but a longer snare immunity could incentivize people from moving to medium from heavy& forward momentum combo.

Medium only really has its place in pve, I’m more focusing on pvp since it already only synergyzes best with nightblades

revonine · May 2018

Shuffle needs to be competitive with Forward Momentum for a start. It does need something for PvE aswell. The obvious choice would be adding penetration in light of the sunderflame/Night Mothers nerf. But that would buff stam in PvP where it really isn't needed.

Ragnarock41 · May 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Me? I've always liked crit resistance for medium.

I've kind of tested this idea, with my medium impreg build. Result is that medium would end up way too strong, if we gave it crit resistance per piece.

Savos_Saren · May 2018

Medium armor definitely doesn't need penetration, though. That's for light armor. If you think about it: Medium armor gets a 12% buff to weapon damage... AND you can run bleeds (which is 100% physical penetration).

I can't think of anything that Medium Armor needs a buff on. Giving it any more buffs would definitely push stam characters way over the bell curve. The game is pretty much already Elder Nightblades Online and most StamDens and StamBlades already hit like a truck. StamPlars and StamSorcs can already bleed people to death as well.

BlackLabel · May 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Medium armor definitely doesn't need penetration, though. That's for light armor. If you think about it: Medium armor gets a 12% buff to weapon damage... AND you can run bleeds (which is 100% physical penetration).

I can't think of anything that Medium Armor needs a buff on. Giving it any more buffs would definitely push stam characters way over the bell curve. The game is pretty much already Elder Nightblades Online and most StamDens and StamBlades already hit like a truck. StamPlars and StamSorcs can already bleed people to death as well.

You make good points. Yes medium armor is good in some situations, but heavy outperforms it 9/10 in pvp. Medium armor is for mobility, sustain, and damage
Heavy armor allows for just as high mobility because of forward momentum; sustain with the consitiution and rapid mending; and you can achieve just as high damage if not more with sets such as fury and seventh.

There needs to be incentive to wear medium over heavy, but of course with your points stated it is a touchy subject and needs to be done carefully.

Ragnaroek93 · May 2018

Give med armor some crit defense per piece and nerf Impreg armor in return a bit. And maybe give it a passive which reduces the strength of defile if you are running 5p med armor.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Medium armor definitely doesn't need penetration, though. That's for light armor. If you think about it: Medium armor gets a 12% buff to weapon damage... AND you can run bleeds (which is 100% physical penetration).

I can't think of anything that Medium Armor needs a buff on. Giving it any more buffs would definitely push stam characters way over the bell curve. The game is pretty much already Elder Nightblades Online and most StamDens and StamBlades already hit like a truck. StamPlars and StamSorcs can already bleed people to death as well.

Finally someone who is complaing about stamplars being too strong, wow. Hurr durr, magicka defile builds are balanced while 1v1 bleed builds (which don't even work that good in 1v1) are OP. Since so many stam players quitted during the first year of ESO we have this extreme magicka bias in the community which is disgusting at best.

Narvuntien · May 2018

Replace sneak passive with AoE damage reduction same as deadly cloak.

Put the sneak passive into leadgemen.

Mr_Nobody · May 2018

Yea Medium armor should also increase all direct damage by 25%; make every second cloak cost no Magicka; and give a passive 10% dodge chance just for wearing 5pc

Please OP, QFT

dazee · May 2018

BlackLabel wrote: »

I know there has been multiple threads regarding the state of medium armor, but I thought it might be helpful to create a brainstorming thread for suggestions to buff medium armor. I'm hoping this thread can be an area where we take in all suggestions, and respectfully analyze and screen suggestions to find a neutral and balanced ground.

I find it is hard to move from heavy to medium because there are heavy stes such as seventh and fury that give you more weapon damage than you would have in medium, while allowing for bearable sustain and better tankiness.

Some basic suggestions ( doesnt need to be all)

replace the sneak passive with penetration
lower cost for shuffle
increase the sustain passives

what would you guys like to see?

Hell no I love my sneak bonuses, I play a thief specced all into sneaking and theres no way in hell I'll ever play a Khajiit despite how cool they are.

Vapirko · May 2018

Replace sneak passive (move to legerdemain) with crit resist (idk how much maybe 500-1000) + max stam bonus (probably something small like 3-5% extra stam). HOWEVER, this passive would be switched with the fifth spot passive which heavy and light can already benefit from anyway. And this new passive would require five or more pieces of medium.

dazee · May 2018

Crit resist sounds like a heavy armor thing.

Vapirko · May 2018

dazee wrote: »

Crit resist sounds like a heavy armor thing.

Nah that would be OP. Crit resist would be perfect for medium. Less overal protection but some increased protection to being immediately bursted down which is what medium suffers from because there is so much burst damage in PvP.

Ragnaroek93 · May 2018

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Yea Medium armor should also increase all direct damage by 25%; make every second cloak cost no Magicka; and give a passive 10% dodge chance just for wearing 5pc

Please OP, QFT

Yeah, would be a shame if you would actually need to start playing instead of slotting Duroks and rolling your head over the keyboard.

sneakymitchell · May 2018

Only problem i see in stam builds is when you block. Zero regen.
I wonder for magicka with frost staffs? I haven’t seen it where you block with frost staff you still get magic regen even though that when blocking with an ice staff lowers your magicka.

Anti_Virus · May 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

BlackLabel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Want to buff medium armor? Sure, after a stamblade nerf though. If you want other classes to actually use it that is.(or buff other stam classes in general. Stamblade is way too dominant against medium armor targets.)

I would prefer making shuffle give 1 second snare immunity per piece of medium armor

So with 6 med-1 heavy you would be sitting at 6 seconds of snare immunity. Pretty decent and would compete against forward momentum nicely.

sustain passives are good enough. It also has cost reduction aswell, and on top of that dodge cost reduction. Its pretty dank stronk.

As with changing sneak with penetration, it is a bit risky there. While sneak is useless for anything except stamblades, even more free stats to medium would completely break the reasoning to use heavy armor.(medium brass/impreg is already very competitive with heavy,lets not make it even more stronger. Don't forget the mobility benefits too.)

I would say what should be done is , giving other classes the ability to play as assassins.Yes, I'm talking about giving a weaker version of cloak to all classes. And before salty stamblades come up with their ''hurr durr class identity'', you can play your stamblade like a heavy armor DK, so I should be able to play my Dk like a medium armor nightblade. Just like how we have alliance purge for non-templar healers in PvP, everyone could benefit from a non-nightblade cloak.(to balance the ability it should be locked into 5+ medium, like shuffle obviously.We wouldn't really want heavy armor Dk/templars abusing this like they did with shuffle.) There, now everyone can play sneaky.

And NO, heavy does not give you more damage anymore. it was the case for some sets like fury-seventh-ravager etc. All of those can be used in a medium setup now. Without sacrificing anything at all, thanks to jewelrycrafting.

I feel (as well as many others) that there is very little incentive to choose medium over heavy. We need to find and present solutions to fix this imbalance and allow other classes besides nightblade a to run medium. I for one feel I need to run heavy because I constantly need to me mindful of nightblades incaping my brains out.

Also coming with this next patch I am sure we will see more imbalance/ spread with the choice between heavy and medium with the possibility to run both seventh, fury, and a monster set.

As I said, people choose heavy over medium, because playing medium like its supposed to play, on anything other than stamblade, results in a disaster. Simply buffing medium armor will change absolutely nothing, and will only make stamblade even more dominant.

The solution is to make other classes have the options for that fast playstyle of medium. Yes, I'm mainly talking about stamDk/stamsorc here. They could benefit greatly from improved weapon skills that can at least compete with what stamblades have.

other than that, impossible to fail burst combos like magsorcs have, is also cancerous against medium armor.(Thanks wrobel for buffing rune cage lmao,enjoy getting one shot consistantly or go heavy basically.)

This is what I keep telling people, if you want to play in medium shut up and play a stamblade.

Thats what the class was designed to play in, but instead they campaigned to nerf heavy armor 4x in a row and are STILL QQing about medium.

It's time to accepts this and wanting to nerf heavy armor isn't going to make medium better.

Anti_Virus · May 2018

Also shuffle and morphs need a rework.

Evasion:
This ability now cost 4900 stam at base
When activated grants 100% dodge immunity for the next 4 attacks.

Shuffle(Evasion Morph):
This morph also grants snare immunity duration is based on amount of medium equiped.

Elude(Evasion morph):
This morph now increases the amount of dodges based on amount of medium armor equpied each piece increases duration by .33 secs (capped at 6 dodges)

Anti_Virus · May 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Crit resist sounds like a heavy armor thing.

Nah that would be OP. Crit resist would be perfect for medium. Less overal protection but some increased protection to being immediately bursted down which is what medium suffers from because there is so much burst damage in PvP.

How does this passive benefit pve medium armor users?