Guilds, IC, Race and TOS

Khorax · May 2018

I have a genuine question regarding something I've seen amongst all three factions in ESO. I've noticed a number of racially divisive guilds, not just focused, but actually dedicated to the racially divisive storylines and villain groups within each faction. While offering themselves as RP groups, I have seen a number of members advertising these guilds and then making racially divisive comments that are:

- not actually in the confines of lore for the 2nd era (and often not even close)
- using real life examples or allegories in which to support their ideologies.
- using detrimental phrases that are commonly used to degrade individuals from various racial backgrounds IRL, but substituting the fictional races of men and mer.

The advertisements for these groups often claim that they're an RP group (without presenting the guild's premise openly unless pressed) or a 'Social group dedicated to [insert race here]', which would put them in realm of plausible deniability -except- where the above points are given. I'm concerned, since the TOS bans racially divisive behavior that these guilds are actually in breach of them.

But I do not want to deny people the opportunity to genuinely and sincerely play villainous RP (which these groups -are-). They're not being presented OOCly as such. Where does Zenimax and ESO stand in regards to these issues? Should this kind of behavior (especially in the case of point 1 and 2) be reported? What if someone continues to insult (fictional race) in chat, as would be done for RL races? I'd like some genuine answers so I know where the line is drawn.

Judas Helviaryn · May 2018

Unless they're genuinely acting on real-world race and bigotry, there's nothing to be concerned about.

You need to ask yourself why these people should or shouldn't be censored, before blithely following society's rules. Judge for yourself, and be honest about it. We all have our reasons to stamp out bigotry, but "everyone else says to" shouldn't be one of them.

I can shout Dunmer Master Race all I want, and I do, but that doesn't belie personal belief in any true racial superiority inside or outside of the game.

Leave people alone, N'wah.

Aliyavana · May 2018

I can talk about argonian inferiority all I want and how they are better off as slaves or handbags for the dunmer as they are simply pixels and I have the right to rp the dunmer master race. I also know that argonians are pixels and role-playing dunmer superiority does not make me racist irl just killing innocents in-game doesn't make me a murderer irl.

Getern · May 2018

Its just a game. If being racist "in game" is what they want, let them for it. Its not like they mean it for real.
Why everyone is so fragille these days. How do u survive winter?

Judas Helviaryn · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

I can talk about argonian inferiority all I want and how they are better off as slaves or handbags for the dunmer as they are simply pixels and I have the right to rp the dunmer master race. I also know that argonians are pixels and role-playing dunmer superiority does not make me racist irl just killing innocents in-game doesn't make me a murderer

Argonians are the surrogate master race. In the absence of Dunmer, Argonians would rule the world.

When nine becomes eight, Ali, Argonians are king.

Hint hint. :l

Aliyavana · May 2018

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I can talk about argonian inferiority all I want and how they are better off as slaves or handbags for the dunmer as they are simply pixels and I have the right to rp the dunmer master race. I also know that argonians are pixels and role-playing dunmer superiority does not make me racist irl just killing innocents in-game doesn't make me a murderer

Argonians are the surrogate master race. In the absence of Dunmer, Argonians would rule the world.

When nine becomes eight, Ali, Argonians are king.

Hint hint. :l

To call argonians a race is an insult to the races that are actually races

Judas Helviaryn · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I can talk about argonian inferiority all I want and how they are better off as slaves or handbags for the dunmer as they are simply pixels and I have the right to rp the dunmer master race. I also know that argonians are pixels and role-playing dunmer superiority does not make me racist irl just killing innocents in-game doesn't make me a murderer

Argonians are the surrogate master race. In the absence of Dunmer, Argonians would rule the world.

When nine becomes eight, Ali, Argonians are king.

Hint hint. :l

To call argonians a race is an insult to the races that are actually races

And over your head it goes. O_o

eklhaftb16_ESO · May 2018

Oh look, we've got ourselves a concerned citizen, just like in the good old times. Man, you're making me feel young. It's like 1980s in the Soviet bloc all over again, except this time, it's not "I think they've been insulting the working class", it's "I think they've been insulting a race / gender / religion". Different year, different label, same nonsense.

Sorry for being snarky, but I literally grew up among this - and it is extremely concerning to see it come back. My grandma lost her job because of people like you, Khorax, and subsequently, my mom never got to graduate high school. In a similar yet unrelated case, my dad ended up in prison processing uranium for two years, and he came back with lung cancer, because of someone like you. Because some concerned citizen was tattling about something that was none of their damn business.

Luckily, the worst thing you can do is get someone banned. But frankly, that doesn't make your behavior any less despicable.
"Comrade comissar, I heard them saying weird stuff and I wondered what's the official Party stance on that matter." Yea, sure.

NickStern · May 2018

Would have given this troll 10/10 but only 5 people took the bait so drops to 3/10.

Nice try though.

ComboBreaker88 · May 2018

Khorax wrote: »

I have a genuine question regarding something I've seen amongst all three factions in ESO. I've noticed a number of racially divisive guilds, not just focused, but actually dedicated to the racially divisive storylines and villain groups within each faction. While offering themselves as RP groups, I have seen a number of members advertising these guilds and then making racially divisive comments that are:

- not actually in the confines of lore for the 2nd era (and often not even close)
- using real life examples or allegories in which to support their ideologies.
- using detrimental phrases that are commonly used to degrade individuals from various racial backgrounds IRL, but substituting the fictional races of men and mer.

The advertisements for these groups often claim that they're an RP group (without presenting the guild's premise openly unless pressed) or a 'Social group dedicated to [insert race here]', which would put them in realm of plausible deniability -except- where the above points are given. I'm concerned, since the TOS bans racially divisive behavior that these guilds are actually in breach of them.

But I do not want to deny people the opportunity to genuinely and sincerely play villainous RP (which these groups -are-). They're not being presented OOCly as such. Where does Zenimax and ESO stand in regards to these issues? Should this kind of behavior (especially in the case of point 1 and 2) be reported? What if someone continues to insult (fictional race) in chat, as would be done for RL races? I'd like some genuine answers so I know where the line is drawn.

Filthy leatherbacks.

CompM4s · May 2018

The_Smilemeister · May 2018

CompM4s wrote: »

Someone should remind the publisher of the map that Solstheim is part of Morrowind as of the 4th Era.

starkerealm · May 2018

The_Smilemeister wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Someone should remind the publisher of the map that Solstheim is part of Morrowind as of the 4th Era.

Any Dunmer dumb enough to go there is probably an N'wah.

The_Smilemeister · May 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

The_Smilemeister wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Someone should remind the publisher of the map that Solstheim is part of Morrowind as of the 4th Era.

Any Dunmer dumb enough to go there is probably an N'wah.

I guess that means that all Dunmer are dumb N'wahs for annexing it into Morrowind in the first place.

Still_Mind · May 2018

Virtual racism is perfectly fine if it is in line with the setting (it more than is, in case of TES), and is not used to veil irl hate speech.

Also, stop looking for things to be offended about. It is (or rather should be) beneath a grown-up individual.

Even worse if this "concerned citizen" routine is used by white knights on purpose to harass people, while hiding behind political correctness, or some other socially-approved, hyped-up nonsense which inevitably results in witch-hunts towards anyone who dares to disagree, or even to refuse to show support.

Geekgirl · May 2018

In my experience as both a human being and a role player who has RPed across many different games and platforms, some people RP racially selective or strict guilds because they are going the way of lore and are following certain belief structures as set up by the creators and developers of the game. In this case the Dunmer perception that they are better than other races and particularly better than those stinking lizards or silly cats.

However, there is also the very real contingent of people who seem to fall into these guilds because they genuinely enjoy being cruel or superior to others. RP crosses lines here, and it can be *very* tricky to call out the behavior as it's often hidden behind the RP flag, "Oh, I didn't mean anything by it really; it's just my character."

Because the game itself creates this tension, it's really difficult to ask ZoS to police what appears to be IC racism, even when it legitimately spills over because people don't know boundaries or forget that that pixellated Argonian is being run by a very real human.