Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

So it was an exaggeration... thank you for proving my point

I'll be posting you a screenshot as soon as I install ESO on my new rig, because you and so many other people are so ignorant about that I feel sad about it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSIEJdtOzW8

check 2:26 . This is @Alcast 's very old build that I used for quite a while. Its a build that is designed for ease of use, Its not really a build for maximizing tooltips.

my build only has around 40k stamina, but ramps up to 5000+ weapon damage, with more cp into healing than alcast does. because screw defiles.

And it is known truth that abilities scale higher with WD, than max stamina.

Now tell me, do you still think I'm exaggerating? StamDk is the king of self healing, and you are not going to teach me my class.

I think he's talking about how a bleed outdamages a 20k Vigor. It doesn't. Unless you have Major Defile on you because everyone and their mothers have easy access to, which is the problem, not bleed in itself.

20k vigor tooltip = 4k Health/sec = 2k HPS in pvp without crit

A bloodcraze bleed that will outdps this will have around 36k tooltip. (2x9x2)

20k vigor tooltip under 45% Major Defile (71 Befoul) = 1,1K HPS in pvp without crit

A bloodcraze bleed that will outdps this will have around 19,8k tooltip (1.1x9x2)

unaccounted modifiers :
- Vigor will crit for higher than Bleed (affected by crit resistance)
- I think Major Defile is additive with Bonus healing received modifiers so the reduction should be lower than 45%
- Bleed will use 1,9x less GCD

Conclusion (opinion based on incomplete math, not a fact) :
- Bleed+Defile+Befoul will not outdps Vigor
- Bleed+ Defile+Befoul will outsustain Vigor

My position regarding Defile is that we can't nerf Defile/Befoul without nerfing healing.

We could remove Defile from the game and make Battle Spirit cut healing by 75% instead of 50%
Or any middle-ground (50% nerf, battle spirit slightly increased, etc..) to make Defile "less mandatory"

We could add more sources of Defile for magicka setups. (put it on some unused mage guild spell)

Anything else would be a detriment to game balance in my opinion.

I think the problem with defile is that it is overloaded by having to counter builds who stack both amps to healing done and received to get strong self healing. I think there should be a separate debuff and CP star to counter healing done (since defile counters healing received), and split the power between the two.

EDIT: To add to the point, we have buffs like Vitality and Mending that are stackable, but we dont have a debuff to stack on Defile, so it ends up with the burden of countering both and annihilating non-heal focused builds.

About bleeds I only think they are problematic while paired with defile. So IMO defile should be looked at first and then bleeds if they are still overperforming after that.

Defense should never be more resource efficient than offense, otherwise fights would never end.

Royaji wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I think neither are overperforming, I just think all our classes have been undertuned and stripped of our defense mechanics.

Would bleeds be an issue if you, a templar, had the ability to cause those bleeds to "miss" while being able to heal globally with mending passive?

Would they be an issue if sorcs could use streak without cost increase to outrun players in order to use dark deal more effectively?

I think all classes should have access to a great defense mechanic outside of armor resist/mitigation. And the ability to restore resources to sustain that defense. There should be defense, utility, DMG and sustain in the classes for all roles as well as both stamina/mag.

Yeah, full Cyro of builds with great defensive mechanics and sustain that run around unable to kill each other. For PvP defense has to be weaker than offense. Otherwise noone will die.

Well dying in a few seconds to builds that have DMG/defense/sustain only to realize your class can only build for 2 at a time isnt fun either lol.

Bleeds are fine in CP. They are not fine in noCP where they rip through tankier playstyles mercilessly since no mitigation CP.

Defiles are OP full stop, if they were subtractive from your multiplier and then base heals, sure, but they are applied at max heal.

i.e. Subtractive. 100% base heal, 25% mending, - 30% defile. Overall, 95% of base healing. Current, 100% base heal, 25% mending, then of that 125%, take a 30% defile for 87.5% base healing.

Kind of feel bad for necro'ing this thread, but now that I Reinstalled the game and finally installed summerset, this here is for you @Zeromaz , and this is in non-cp campaign, and without even my berserker enchant proc, which would put it well above 20k.

Now please tell me I'm exaggerating again, and after that, you can ''get lost'', if you wish so

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Kind of feel bad for necro'ing this thread, but now that I Reinstalled the game and finally installed summerset, this here is for you @Zeromaz , and this is in non-cp campaign, and without even my berserker enchant proc, which would put it well above 20k.

Now please tell me I'm exaggerating again, and after that, you can ''get lost'', if you wish so

That's cool and all, but you are forgetting Battle spiriti HALVES all healing recieved by 50% in all PvP scenarios. That doesn't show up on ANY tooltip my friend

On top of that Puttin a measly 40 points or so will reduce that by another 40%. Only 40 points that will reduce that Halved 10k heal by abother half to 5k


See what I'm getting at? You will never out heal a proper Bleed+Defile setup without being a templar. And even the it's easier to Re-cast the bleed and defile (thats if you aren't using the automatic defile set) and re-apply the skill while not having to skip a single beat in your pressure and CC movesets

Its still a 10k hot without taking crits into account. You have to realize this is a very high tooltip, and no class other than the stamDK can get such high tooltips.

Either way, you're missing the original topic here. I do realize a bleed build with defile will easily eat thru my heals. Which is exactly what I said in this topic, untill a very typical forum user called ''exaggeration'' and trash talked me

Eso is so much politics now we got a rally post to nerf bleeds ... Lol