NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

molecule wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Craft Bag is the primary reason people continue to subscribe.

This ^

Remove the craft bag, you lose my sub

There aren’t as many subscribers as you all would like to believe. Consider the focus is on the crown store not eso plus for the last two+ years.

Which would lead me personally to believe there are plenty of subs. Hence why they aren't giving ESO+ any attention. They don't need to.

Lysette wrote: »

ZOS will never do that, because it is their only real selling point for ESO+.

Far from their only.

Access to all DLC
Costume Dying
Bonus to XP, CXP and Inspiration
Double Bank Space
Double Housing hooks
etc

But it is maybe the best perk of ESO+ and as such I see no chance that they will ever remove it from being an ESO+ perk.

Sting864 wrote: »

Raraaku wrote: »

Will not happen, as pointed out, it's essentially they're biggest selling point; and a primary reason why a lot of people subscribe. The 10% boosts and double bank space are also nice, but the crafting bag is the glue that holds everything together for membership.

They do already have, somewhat, of a compromise in storage furniture for sell in the crown store and/or for tel var stones.

Sorry, that's not even a "somewhat of a compromise..." Try again....

You think that they simply added the storage containers simply because there were too many sets and useful equipment/consumables in the game? Crafting materials take up an extraordinary amount of space, particularly the consumable crafting skills. It's not illogical to assume that ZoS knows that there is a storage problem for non ESO-plus members and created the storage containers to make money off the absence of a feature that many on the forums have acknowledged that it is the primary reason why the subscribe. Paying a one time fee for additional space (30-60 spaces) in addition to having the ability to buy your bank/inventory space with crowns seems like a win-win to me for ZoS. Players get more space, and they get more money.

Mannix1958 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

molecule wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Craft Bag is the primary reason people continue to subscribe.

This ^

Remove the craft bag, you lose my sub

There aren’t as many subscribers as you all would like to believe. Consider the focus is on the crown store not eso plus for the last two+ years.

And you have access to these numbers and can share them?

@Mannix1958

Are you on Xbox one? You and everyone else had access to some data to establish an understanding.

Look at things that identify use and experience like this - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/eso-plus/cfq7ttc0k5dg

There’s also a similar view in the Xbox one store on the console with diff results.

Compare that to this - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/bpwxcl17zzjg

Similar appears in the Xbox one console store.

You can draw an understanding based upon those who did purchase who chose to leave a review, rate or who thought a review was helpful.

You can’t rate or review unless you have a current sub. Next time you sub you can choose to update you review but not make a new one.

So 10k plus folks rated the game and less than 200 rated ESO Plus. My point is the Forum community assumes most sub because of our interactions here but if you ask while doing randoms, especially normal only not veteran dungeons.

Also just talking to people in towns, over the last three years more don’t use eso plus than those who do if considering how many have access to play the game. More than that don’t craft so for those of us who do craft, perhaps eso plus is of interest but as a 9 trait crafter i personally may sub 3-4 times a year at max so out of 12 months it’s not much and I don’t sub for the crafting bag....I do it for access to dlc before i buy it with crowns.

Also consider on console only those who own the game can review it, but the base game can be shared. So it’s easily another 5k that could rate the base game....but the eso plus part cant be shared so the info suggests it’s far less eso subs than players in a 150 to 10k ratio if we use the rating/review info

Many have the opinion that it hurts their business model but does it really?

If the review/rating ratio of owners to subscribers is 75% accurate it suggests there are more opportunities selling the feature outside of a subscription. I get that from the review/ratings of crowns where there are exponentially more crown purchases than eso plus for Xbox one at least.


So I feel it’s more than an obvious to offer this as a crown purchase but I’d much rather see it bundled with dlc purchases. Not an unlimited crafting bag but perhaps 10-20 slots per owner dlc bundle or chapter bundle.

Other platforms may differ

Dire wrote: »

Good morning, Zenimax and forums,
I'm so glad I got back into ESO with my friend. I love this game, and the lore of the Elder Scrolls. I have a suggestion; rather, more of a plea. The game has been out for such a long time now; ESO has had a strong run, and still has a faithful player base. I'm certain granting all players access to the Endless Craft Bag would bring back an even greater percentage of them. I firmly believe this alone will also increase the shear enjoyment of the game itself. That bag is more than an asset, it is a necessity. I still find myself in situations where I need to manage my inventory space and size, so it doesn't completely remove the need to do so. Granting players access to the Craft Bag for free should also be a great incentive for players to spend crowns as well (wink). Maybe you could add it as a reward for reaching level 50 and completing the main story Quest (beating Molag Bal). Please make this a reality with the release of the Summerset Isle, and thank you for such a wonderful game!
Dire

Hmm, if you pay you get it, seems fair enough. I don't think you free-baggers realize, a business needs to be able to sustain itself, and people who don't contribute any money don't help with that.

As a business, would I rather be concerned with more players or higher subscription numbers? The latter of course. Making the bag available without ESO Plus will likely bring back more players, which will require more resources to support, and it will also likely cause some people to drop their ESO Plus membership, which means even less money to support those players. So, how would that contribute to keeping the game sustainable? It doesn't. Yeah, they could add it to the crown store, but if you can't afford the subscription, you probably wouldn't be able to afford the bag given the price point it would demand because of the value it brings. Also, that would really fire up the people who already claim the game is p2w.

The question that you need to answer isn't how many players play, but how does this financially benefit the people who need to keep the game running. Don't say there is more players means more people will buy from the crown store, because you already get $15 worth of crowns with a membership. I don't have the numbers, but I think it is fair to say it's likely most people who buy crowns already have a membership, because if you are spending that much on crowns, it would just provide you with other benefits, such as the craft bag.

AlnilamE wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Your suggestion needs to be something equally as good as the crafting bag. People have been asking for handouts in this game since shortly after it became a B2P model, but they never have a suggestion for what ZOS could do to keep up optional subs. The alternative would be even more things becoming crown only items, coupled with less creative DLCs (after the inevitable employee purge to make up for the lost revenue), mixed with higher crown store prices, because why wrack your brain (as ZOS marketing department), when the answer is right in front of you.

Honestly, right out of the box, they should have made the Craft Bag part of the base game and let subscribers use the Merchant and Banker without buying them while subbed.

No, I think this thread, and the previous one, do kinda indicate that they got the craft bag exactly right.

It is possible to do your crafting without the craft bag. I mean, we all managed for two and a half years with out the bag. It's a little annoying, and it does push you to sell stuff you're not using, but the game is completely playable without it.

It's an amazing convenience item, however. Stuff goes in there and we just forget it exists until the next time. It is really useful as a time saver, and does make the game more enjoyable by cutting down on the inventory management. The sheer number of people, myself included, who subscribe primarily for the bag, should illustrate this.

So... do I want free stuff? Well, yes. At the same time, I do understand that the game does need a healthy subscriber base to keep going. MMOs need cash to remain operational. That's not greed. MMOs aren't like most games, where once it's out the door, then 99% of development is done, and all that's left is patch fixes. New stuff is always in the works, and old stuff is getting fixed. (Yes, even when our personal bugbears are left untouched, patch after patch, the vast majority of issues do get addressed.)

This means that the development team needs to keep operating throughout the life cycle of the game. (There have been publishers that viewed MMOs as a normal publish and you're done setup, in the past. Atari comes to mind here. This results in games where you're expected to sub for years without any new content coming out.)

So, back to ESO. The Craft Bag helps keep people subscribed. It is an excellently calibrated pain point. Just enticing enough that it's worth paying for, without being so valuable you actually need it to play. So far as it goes, I'd actually say the other Subscriber benefits (the extra bank storage and the housing limits) are nice, but mostly meaningless. That Craft Bag, though...

So, would I like it permanently? Well, yes. But, I also understand why it really should be gated as a subscriber perk and nowhere else.

Oh look, it's another, "ZOS, please give me more stuff for free disregarding that this is an MMO with ongoing expenses that is also a 'for profit' business that has shareholders to answer to. Regardless you should just pay for everything yourselves out of the goodness of your heart and not expect anything in return, including a paycheck for the devs."

dannymcgr81b14_ESO wrote: »

Dire wrote: »

Granting players access to the Craft Bag for free should also be a great incentive for players to spend crowns as well (wink).
Dire

How do you figure this? If they are not willing to spend 15 bucks for eso plus which comes with the craft bag, double bank space, all kinds of bonuses and 1500 crowns, why do you think they would spend 15 bucks for just 1500 crowns?

Because if we do not have to pay 15 dollars a month, we will be able to spend that money elsewhere on things like crowns. Thanks for the response! I do love the fact we also get 1500 crowns for the Sub though, very friendly incentive.

A not-endless craftbag in the crown store with some upgrades would be welcome too. I would certainly buy one, or one per profession. I take a subscription when free crown crates are given away. I also loot as much as I can in those periodes.

You can do without the crafting bag. I have played with and without a sub. There is an overall advantage. With limited bagspace, I have to manage my inventory space a bit more. It can happen that I do not loot everything, which means nodes and chests stay with only junk. I try to let it happen as least as possible, because when it happens to me, getting only junk, I am always a bit annoyed.

Juju_beans wrote: »

Why is it called "greed" when a company tries to generate revenue ?
And why do people call it "greed" when they have no idea what the company financials are ?

And they have no idea what each individual player financials are lol. Its greed bc of the quality to cost ratio. If I say sell berries on the side of the street for 2 bucks a box then decide to charge sep for the boxes and make them smaller then I don't know maybe instead of givkng cash back as change just use my own bs currency or coupon system. Yes, its basically greed, their financials and ours have nothing to do with it. Quality to Cost, cheap product asking for more then it should be valued is greed.

Malacthulhu wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Why is it called "greed" when a company tries to generate revenue ?
And why do people call it "greed" when they have no idea what the company financials are ?

And they have no idea what each individual player financials are lol. Its greed bc of the quality to cost ratio. If I say sell berries on the side of the street for 2 bucks a box then decide to charge sep for the boxes and make them smaller then I don't know maybe instead of givkng cash back as change just use my own bs currency or coupon system. Yes, its basically greed, their financials and ours have nothing to do with it. Quality to Cost, cheap product asking for more then it should be valued is greed.

I feel I need to ask a question: You understand the purpose of an analogy is to draw a relevant comparison, not just wander off on a random unrelated tangent, with minimal relation to the topic at hand, right?

starkerealm wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Your suggestion needs to be something equally as good as the crafting bag. People have been asking for handouts in this game since shortly after it became a B2P model, but they never have a suggestion for what ZOS could do to keep up optional subs. The alternative would be even more things becoming crown only items, coupled with less creative DLCs (after the inevitable employee purge to make up for the lost revenue), mixed with higher crown store prices, because why wrack your brain (as ZOS marketing department), when the answer is right in front of you.

Honestly, right out of the box, they should have made the Craft Bag part of the base game and let subscribers use the Merchant and Banker without buying them while subbed.

No, I think this thread, and the previous one, do kinda indicate that they got the craft bag exactly right.

It is possible to do your crafting without the craft bag. I mean, we all managed for two and a half years with out the bag. It's a little annoying, and it does push you to sell stuff you're not using, but the game is completely playable without it.

It's an amazing convenience item, however. Stuff goes in there and we just forget it exists until the next time. It is really useful as a time saver, and does make the game more enjoyable by cutting down on the inventory management. The sheer number of people, myself included, who subscribe primarily for the bag, should illustrate this.

So... do I want free stuff? Well, yes. At the same time, I do understand that the game does need a healthy subscriber base to keep going. MMOs need cash to remain operational. That's not greed. MMOs aren't like most games, where once it's out the door, then 99% of development is done, and all that's left is patch fixes. New stuff is always in the works, and old stuff is getting fixed. (Yes, even when our personal bugbears are left untouched, patch after patch, the vast majority of issues do get addressed.)

This means that the development team needs to keep operating throughout the life cycle of the game. (There have been publishers that viewed MMOs as a normal publish and you're done setup, in the past. Atari comes to mind here. This results in games where you're expected to sub for years without any new content coming out.)

So, back to ESO. The Craft Bag helps keep people subscribed. It is an excellently calibrated pain point. Just enticing enough that it's worth paying for, without being so valuable you actually need it to play. So far as it goes, I'd actually say the other Subscriber benefits (the extra bank storage and the housing limits) are nice, but mostly meaningless. That Craft Bag, though...

So, would I like it permanently? Well, yes. But, I also understand why it really should be gated as a subscriber perk and nowhere else.

I do see your point, but then, they could have just left the game subscription-only and be done with it, no?

Considering how many people run around with new mounts and pets whenever they come out, I feel that the crown store makes them a fair chunk of money. And I again maintain that a happy playerbase is more likely to spend money on your game than an unhappy one. I personally don't like feeling that I *have* to spend money on something that's labelled as "optional" and if I didn't have ESO+ simply because it's my way of supporting the game, regardless of what the perks are, I would feel that, and it would make me less likely to sub and play.

Also, keep in mind that even players who only buy the game and never spend a single crown are part of the ecosystem and by increasing the population they make the game more enjoyable for everyone, so giving them less inconveniences to deal with will make them more likely to stay.

And I know we lived without the craft bag (even when we were subbing to ESO+ without it). I had a very elaborate inventory management scheme going. But since the craft bag was introduced, we have seen an increase in crafting mats that makes managing inventory without it more difficult with each update. So if ZOS is not going to make it available, they should at least streamline crafting mats again to make playing without it easier to manage.

(And consider that for the gatherers out there, if everyone has the craft bag, no one will ever leave just worms behind at a node.)