So, Death and... Well, just Death really...

Sekero · May 2018

OK! Thanks

I will sleep peacefully tonight.

Jayman1000 · May 2018

Well, I'd really like a sort of semi-hardcore mode where death had real risks instead of just costing 10% gear dmg + a soul gem, or a walk from the nearest wayshrine.... The way it is now they might as well go all in and just allow instant respawn on the spot.

Anyways a semi-hardcode mode could enable much increased rewards but result in losing it all (or at least alot™) if you died. That would be so great man; pair that with heavily increased difficulty of overland content. Wouldn't that be glorious? Overland would suddenly matter instead of being the joke it is today.

But why are we even discussing this? This is never EVER going to be implemented in a game as casual and streamlined as ESO.

EDIT: dear lord, you made a second post just as long as the first. I only read the first lol

geonsocal · May 2018

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

I died while reading this cause it took to long.

Sekero · May 2018

Dear Lord! Revenants posting on the ESO forum! Whatever next? Will Molag Bal post his comments on our performance at Dark Anchors?

jedtb16_ESO · May 2018

Allanm wrote: »

Dear Lord! Revenants posting on the ESO forum! Whatever next? Will Molag Bal post his comments on our performance at Dark Anchors?

nope, it's ok.... molag can neither read nor write. he just has this big boomy overly theatrical voice.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

If you want perma death, you can do that all by yourself. Every time you die, no matter where you are, immediately log out to the character select screen, delete the character and make a new one. Let us know how many times that remains interesting to you

@Katahdin, changed my mind on this one, actually.

It's too forgiving (a scaled Level 3 is pretty tough). It also gives the new character the courtesy of having to deal with level limited content.

An alternate version would be zero gear repair. You break it, you decon it or vendor it on the spot. And each time you die, you respec and remove a skill point (never to be placed again)

If we were to run with your original idea, I'd say 15 times. You get to do this 15 times, then you have to uninstall the game and delete your account.

I suppose either would drive the point home.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2018

Allanm wrote: »

platonicidealgirlfriend wrote: »

anyone who wants to suggest that gear be lost on death should first have to grind out a full set of trial gear, undaunted helm+shoulder, vma or asylum gear, and all the stones to transmute 'em.

If they have the stones to do it. (! don't)

mannimarco was running a meat grinder to feed souls to bal, it was literally nothing personnel, kid.

Ah ok good to know. BUT why didn't the other sacrifices become Vestiges too?

Same reason some become vampires and others become bloodfiends. It's all about willpower and fortitude.

Sekero · May 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Allanm wrote: »

platonicidealgirlfriend wrote: »

anyone who wants to suggest that gear be lost on death should first have to grind out a full set of trial gear, undaunted helm+shoulder, vma or asylum gear, and all the stones to transmute 'em.

If they have the stones to do it. (! don't)

mannimarco was running a meat grinder to feed souls to bal, it was literally nothing personnel, kid.

Ah ok good to know. BUT why didn't the other sacrifices become Vestiges too?

Same reason some become vampires and others become bloodfiends. It's all about willpower and fortitude.

I have neither

pdebie64b16_ESO · May 2018

Shame Eso doesnt have any death penalty at all, in Dark Age of Camelot each time you died you lost exp up to the exp you gained for your current level (so 99% exp loss when dieing to much was possible) and for each death you lost 1 construction point (Construction in DAOC determines your hitpoints) and you needed to buy it back from a healer.

In EVE online its much worser. When you die from PvE or PvP you loose your ship (doest matter if it is a 1k ISK or 10 bil isk ship) with every module, weapons and cargo aboard, and in PvP you can be podded (loosing your clone (current character) with all his/her implants.

In ESO you lose actualy nothing.

Caligamy_ESO · May 2018

Thannazzar wrote: »

I choose cake.

Duffdin · May 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

If you want perma death, you can do that all by yourself. Every time you die, no matter where you are, immediately log out to the character select screen, delete the character and make a new one. Let us know how many times that remains interesting to you

In fact, that is exactly what I do in ESO and have also done throughout multiple play-throughs of Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, and Fallout: New Vegas -- also Fallout 4 to a limited extent, but only because I just can't get into it like the other games. Still, I understand completely why that doesn't appeal to almost any other gamer and wouldn't even suggest it to the developers, much less the community at large. Besides, perma-death is not something that should be strictly enforced even in a "hardcore" mode -- even just resetting to a long ago auto-save in Fallout 4 was something that game got wrong versus a similar "hardcore" mode in Fallout: New Vegas. Programming bugs should not trigger perma-death. Nor should Internet interruptions for MMOs. Death as a consequence of choices made or faulty or even fumble-fingered game play are one thing. Death resulting from issues outside the game world and its denizens are something else entirely. Still, death with little to no consequences of note means some players will be more prone to emulate Leeroy Jenkins or engage in griefing of other players because there are few "natural" barriers to doing so, barriers like not wanting to die which deters quite a bit, though not all, bad behavior IRL...

EDIT: Corrected the spelling of Leeroy Jenkins and turned it into a link for those unfamiliar with the player character name nor its infamy.

Hippie4927 · May 2018

I find it interesting that nobody responded to the OP's original post but everyone is responding to the necro!

Duffdin · May 2018

Pink_Violinz wrote: »

You went back... from two years ago... to restate your point. I don't even know what game I was playing two years ago, let alone a specific post I made about it.

Not really a restating. Two years ago I was trying to understand what it was about being a vestige that was supposed to make an endless series of reincarnations possible within the context of the game world. The follow on post from this year provides links to "books" within the game which attempt to explain it. So, an answer to the first post, except the Morrowind Chapter has been released in the meantime and introduced issues of its own -- e.g. how do non-vestiges repeatedly resurrect without becoming a vestige and, more incredibly, why does Molag Bal lock you up in his prison with all of your weapons, armor, jewelry, consumables, etc. on your person when you finally start the main quest?

Duffdin · May 2018

Hippie4927 wrote: »

I find it interesting that nobody responded to the OP's original post but everyone is responding to the necro!

I find that interesting as well. I don't know if it means the player base has somehow fundamentally changed in the meantime or simply that a "necro'd" post is more likely to draw responses than new posts. Something which, in the unlikely event it is true, would seem to work very much against the intent people have in calling out "necro'd" threads...

swippy · May 2018

this is the trippiest "nerf sorcs" thread i've ever seen

Conduit0 · May 2018

I'm going to come straight out and say it, death penalties in MMOs are idiotic, at best they're pointless time wasters and at worst they are rage inducing experience ruiners. Punishing players for failure does not enhance the gaming experience, it detracts from it. Particularly severe penalties actively discourage players from trying new and unfamiliar content.

Mannix1958 · May 2018

Danikat wrote: »

I don't mind reading long posts, but I agree that this one would benefit from being shorter and more concise. It seemed to be a lot of vaguely connected nostalgic ramblings about other games, inter spaced with occasional speculation on ESO lore and game mechanics and even having read the whole thing it was hard to understand what the point actually is.

IMO starting a forum topic, especially if you know it's going to be a long post, should be approached like writing an article for a magazine or scientific journal (I realise many people will have no experience with either, but it is basically taught in school).
Start with a clear title to let the reader know what it's about.

Summarise your point in the very first paragraph - if you want something changed state that clearly and immediately. If you want other people's opinions give the question first. If you just want to share an idea then summarise what it is.

Then go over any background needed to explain or justify your point.

When you're done re-read it, or it's really important get someone else to read it, and look for anything you can remove, anything which isn't really relevant or is likely to provoke undesirable reactions in readers (and mistakes of course).

So in this case start with the last paragraph - you'd like the game to make it clearer that the Vestige, having been killed and resurrected once, now cannot die permanently so if you're killed again you will always come back. And maybe explain how that works for characters who start in Morrowind (or Summerset) and don't start the main story.

Then add that you enjoyed the older games where dying meant you lose everything you have with you (if you don't have a friend to keep it safe) and you'd like that brought back. Although in that case I think you'd need to bear in mind that games like that have become much rarer for good reason - it's not popular with a lot of people, and with MMOs today trying to target older audiences with less time to commit to grinding up from nothing it's going to be a hard sell.

Long lists of games you played which featured those mechanics and your memories of them can come later, if you think it helps reinforce the point.

This comment should be more concise...perhaps follow some of your own tips...

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

I knew this was a necro when I read "veteran ranks" lol

A neat concept though. If your character dies you start the coldharbour tutorial. Kind of similar to Bloodborne when you get killed by the guys carrying the body bags for the first time you see a cut scene where they're carrying you away to a new zone.

Hallothiel · May 2018

Well, I have experienced the real proper final death of numerous close family members and the idea of playing a game that makes in-game death have 'meaning' does not appeal. At all.

In fact it strikes me as rather pathetic. I know the consequences of death & its not just losing your gear.

Ffs I play to escspe from reality. I'm a bloody Khajiit, a cat-man who can ride a death sparkle panther & do magic. That's amazing & I love it & quite happy that there are no real inconveniences when I die (which I do far too much in trials so if these ideas were implemented I would leave the game).

Abelon · May 2018

OP, I kind of feel sorry that most of the responses here are necros, people that have trouble reading and people that scream "but it's just a game!!"

Of course, it's hard to expect a decent permadeath system in an mmo aimed at mostly casual gamers, but ESO still has a pretty bad death system in place even for a casual mmo. The soul gems are as easy to get as lockpicks and the only real consequence of dying is your equipment losing some durability. Which is not a problem for new players, since repairing is cheap for them and not a problem for older players because they have the money.

I'm not saying that we should leave corpses with our loot behind, or that we should restart completely. But there are mmos with more immersive (see GW2 with their being defeated not killed, WoW, etc) or at least more punishing systems in place (loss of exp in most korean mmos).

zaria · May 2018

Abelon wrote: »

OP, I kind of feel sorry that most of the responses here are necros, people that have trouble reading and people that scream "but it's just a game!!"

Of course, it's hard to expect a decent permadeath system in an mmo aimed at mostly casual gamers, but ESO still has a pretty bad death system in place even for a casual mmo. The soul gems are as easy to get as lockpicks and the only real consequence of dying is your equipment losing some durability. Which is not a problem for new players, since repairing is cheap for them and not a problem for older players because they have the money.

I'm not saying that we should leave corpses with our loot behind, or that we should restart completely. But there are mmos with more immersive (see GW2 with their being defeated not killed, WoW, etc) or at least more punishing systems in place (loss of exp in most korean mmos).

WOW was pretty much the same as EOS in dungeons, overland you had to take your ghost to the body or pay an heavy equipment damage if you died some place you could not recover it.
As for more punishment imagine the drama in dungeons if you lots xp on dying.

Cryptical · May 2018

Allanm wrote: »

MY only question about the shadowy figure and the cinematic is: OK Now I know how I became the Vestige, but WHY did I become the Vestige? I imagine I somehow annoyed Mannimarco at some point, but it would be nice to know.

Sotha Sil addressed us as non mortals at the end of that storyline.

Our immortal nature predates any of the current character starting locations, unless it was touched on in Summerset. I used a template, didn’t go through that start point, so I do not know.

boombazookajd · May 2018

Where is the Mannimarco meme!? This isn't a true necro until Mannimarco appears

Lysette · May 2018

platonicidealgirlfriend wrote: »

anyone who wants to suggest that gear be lost on death should first have to grind out a full set of trial gear, undaunted helm+shoulder, vma or asylum gear, and all the stones to transmute 'em.

Allanm wrote: »

MY only question about the shadowy figure and the cinematic is: OK Now I know how I became the Vestige, but WHY did I become the Vestige? I imagine I somehow annoyed Mannimarco at some point, but it would be nice to know.

mannimarco was running a meat grinder to feed souls to bal, it was literally nothing personnel, kid.

Well, the point is different - because people won't wear these sets then as a meta - simply because it is hard work to get it and they do not want to loose it - so there would be less bling in the meta and overall less complains about the difficulty of the game and pvp would stop being pointless as well - it would require real bravery and skill with just decent sets, not the bling stuff - because their is risk involved. As it is now where is the risk?- and where is the reward?- It is totally pointless pvp, because it has no lasting consequences whatsoever - neither in gains nor in losses - their is nothing to loose other then a bit of an ego.

LMar · May 2018

Hippie4927 wrote: »

I find it interesting that nobody responded to the OP's original post but everyone is responding to the necro!

Because if you read the second post he addresses his own post

The book explains why we can resurrect. And in fact we become what we become because we have a strong annuic identity. A sort of ideal soul shriven instead of t he countless others that are less than perfect versions and will eventually decay and die. We play in effect the individuals that Nirn has "created" to help defend itself. Like white blood cells in a fever

platonicidealgirlfriend · June 2018

Lysette wrote: »

platonicidealgirlfriend wrote: »

anyone who wants to suggest that gear be lost on death should first have to grind out a full set of trial gear, undaunted helm+shoulder, vma or asylum gear, and all the stones to transmute 'em.

Allanm wrote: »

MY only question about the shadowy figure and the cinematic is: OK Now I know how I became the Vestige, but WHY did I become the Vestige? I imagine I somehow annoyed Mannimarco at some point, but it would be nice to know.

mannimarco was running a meat grinder to feed souls to bal, it was literally nothing personnel, kid.

Well, the point is different - because people won't wear these sets then as a meta - simply because it is hard work to get it and they do not want to loose it - so there would be less bling in the meta and overall less complains about the difficulty of the game and pvp would stop being pointless as well - it would require real bravery and skill with just decent sets, not the bling stuff - because their is risk involved. As it is now where is the risk?- and where is the reward?- It is totally pointless pvp, because it has no lasting consequences whatsoever - neither in gains nor in losses - their is nothing to loose other then a bit of an ego.

Have you ever done end game content? A wipe in Vet is almost always is due to the overall group composition and teamwork, or simply from still learning the mechanics; you cannot carry 11 other people to victory against the Assembly General and, moreover, this idea would bring every single trial run grinding to a halt on the first wipe.

emilyhyoyeon · June 2018

ADarklore wrote: »

I have an explanation for being able to resurrect... it's called VIDEO GAME and is for ENTERTAINMENT, not meant to mimic reality.

yeah, I'm really invested into the TES fantasy world, but ESO is a game, and the trivial death stuff is just because ESO is a game. I'd rather them not add weird stuff into the lore as an explanation for videogame limitations or whatever.

JumpmanLane · June 2018

There’s a very large element of RP in the OP’s post.