leveling as tank, what to spec?

Joxer61 · May 2018

Ok, so levelling a Warden tank as they sound fun and am intrigued with the ice staff usage and all. But, besides you obvious tanking choices in one hand and shield tree how do you spend points? With dps it easy, mag or stam depending on what you are building and morphs follow suit. But with tanking and points going into to health, what do I morph? I use both mag and stam skills at any given time so where does one draw the line? Example, cliff racers...do I go with cutting or screeching? Or do I not bother with the animal tree at all as a tank? I ask because if I don't have some dps skills it will take fooorrreeeevvveerr to level and kill junk!
All the builds out there are end game in nature but I prefer to level as I will play, i.e. as a tank, so that way I learn the skills I am going to use. So yea, magicka or stam for skills morphs, as tank...thoughts/suggestions?
Cheers!

(footy time)

Sparr0w · May 2018

Well ideally on a tank don't you want to use skills that drain your blocking pool (e.g. S&B you'd want most skills to be magicka morphs so you can block more), exception being Puncture & Low slash.

However when levelling I'd probably spec mainly into a DD role to speed it up, slotting a S&B skill one each bar so that levells with you. Then respec when you get the scrolls from the level up rewards.

Note: I don't main a tank so advice is a little shakey, other tanks feel free to correct me

EDIT: You could also have a tank bar, then a DD bar & just swap over to the tank bar before killing something or before turning in a quest so all xp goes towards the skills on that bar. Then you can learn to tank while levelling and still outputting decent DPS.

White wabbit · May 2018

These are the warden skills I run
Ice fortess, gripping shards , polar wind , shimmering shield, lotus blossom, blue betty and healing thicket the rest of warden skills aren't any good for a tank

Joxer61 · May 2018

White wabbit wrote: »

These are the warden skills I run
Ice fortess, gripping shards , polar wind , shimmering shield, lotus blossom, blue betty and healing thicket the rest of warden skills aren't any good for a tank

Thanks wabbit....lol, sorry, couldn't help it. But question is what did you USE when levelling, way back then? That's my struggle. I can make a build just fine once I am all levelled out and all but the process, to make it less painful, that's what I am wondering? @Sparr0w made good suggestions I should have thought of.....see what my tank skills need and try to not use the same so I don't deplete it.

Oh, and @White wabbit ...how do you like tanking as Warden?

Asardes · May 2018

Don't level as tank, it's too tedious because of very low DPS. What you should do instead is spec as either stamina or magicka DD, equip 1-2 pieces of heavy, put an AoE skill on your bar and the rest fill with 1H+S or other tanking skills. Even when not using them, the skill itself and the skill line are raised while getting experience. For example you can equip a lightning staff, spam Deep Fissure or Subterranean Assault ever 3 s while keeping your buffs from back bar, then melt everything, while your front bar is filled with the skills you want to train. The XP you get is proportional to the number of mobs hit and how much damage you do to them. My strategy is to pick a zone with easy to reach dolmens and AoE all the mobs there for maximum experience, learn in which order they spawn and keep running between them. I've done that on 10+ characters and I can guarantee it's really fast.

As for gear choice, don't bother farming it until you reach CP160 (if you have reached that on another character you just need to hit 50). An easy to get and effective combo for starters would consist of dropped and crafted sets. For example a good starter setup is 5 Ebon Armory 5 Torug's Pact and a monster set, or 2 pieces form separate sets (ex. 1 Choklethorn 1 Shadowrend to stack magicka recovery). You can run ice or lightning staff on back bar, it makes no real difference, but front bar, the one you get the majority of your hits, should always be 1H+S, since it had better resistance & passives than ice staff. Also on tip for Ebon, don't use weapons/shields, always use armor & jewels, since swapping bars removes the group buff. So you can go Torug: Heavy chest, light wais, medium hands, 1H+S/Ice staff, Ebon jewels, feet, legs, and the monster sets.

White wabbit · May 2018

To the answer of how I like tanking on a warden , I have now done it on all 3 of my wardens , so many good passive that help you and the group , heals so that you can look after your self .
As for the process for my actually warden tank I knew which skills I really only needed so concentrated on them , ie heavy armour, piece armour, heroic slash , but as sparrow said you could spec your front bar for Dd and back bar your tanking skills and just before you hand in swap to get the exp on that bar , running the normal pledges is a good way to learn tanking on the class

Joxer61 · May 2018

Asardes wrote: »

Don't level as tank, it's too tedious because of very low DPS. What you should do instead is spec as either stamina or magicka DD, equip 1-2 pieces of heavy, put an AoE skill on your bar and the rest fill with 1H+S or other tanking skills. Even when not using them, the skill itself and the skill line are raised while getting experience. For example you can equip a lightning staff, spam Deep Fissure or Subterranean Assault ever 3 s while keeping your buffs from back bar, then melt everything, while your front bar is filled with the skills you want to train. The XP you get is proportional to the number of mobs hit and how much damage you do to them. My strategy is to pick a zone with easy to reach dolmens and AoE all the mobs there for maximum experience, learn in which order they spawn and keep running between them. I've done that on 10+ characters and I can guarantee it's really fast.

As for gear choice, don't bother farming it until you reach CP160 (if you have reached that on another character you just need to hit 50). An easy to get and effective combo for starters would consist of dropped and crafted sets. For example a good starter setup is 5 Ebon Armory 5 Torug's Pact and a monster set, or 2 pieces form separate sets (ex. 1 Choklethorn 1 Shadowrend to stack magicka recovery). You can run ice or lightning staff on back bar, it makes no real difference, but front bar, the one you get the majority of your hits, should always be 1H+S, since it had better resistance & passives than ice staff. Also on tip for Ebon, don't use weapons/shields, always use armor & jewels, since swapping bars removes the group buff. So you can go Torug: Heavy chest, light wais, medium hands, 1H+S/Ice staff, Ebon jewels, feet, legs, and the monster sets.

That is great info @Asardes !! Thanks heaps, just what I needed. I was wondering if I should just level as dps and level up those tank skills like you said. I only hesitated because like I said, I try to actually learn the class while levelling so when it comes time I have half a clue as to what to do. GW2 has insta 80 tokens and so many use them and no idea how to actually play their class, its sad. But I can rotate a few skills now and then just to get used them. I just didn't want it to become a grind and then get bored and stop...so Cheers again for your info and also to the others. Most appreciated!!

Asardes · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Don't level as tank, it's too tedious because of very low DPS. What you should do instead is spec as either stamina or magicka DD, equip 1-2 pieces of heavy, put an AoE skill on your bar and the rest fill with 1H+S or other tanking skills. Even when not using them, the skill itself and the skill line are raised while getting experience. For example you can equip a lightning staff, spam Deep Fissure or Subterranean Assault ever 3 s while keeping your buffs from back bar, then melt everything, while your front bar is filled with the skills you want to train. The XP you get is proportional to the number of mobs hit and how much damage you do to them. My strategy is to pick a zone with easy to reach dolmens and AoE all the mobs there for maximum experience, learn in which order they spawn and keep running between them. I've done that on 10+ characters and I can guarantee it's really fast.

As for gear choice, don't bother farming it until you reach CP160 (if you have reached that on another character you just need to hit 50). An easy to get and effective combo for starters would consist of dropped and crafted sets. For example a good starter setup is 5 Ebon Armory 5 Torug's Pact and a monster set, or 2 pieces form separate sets (ex. 1 Choklethorn 1 Shadowrend to stack magicka recovery). You can run ice or lightning staff on back bar, it makes no real difference, but front bar, the one you get the majority of your hits, should always be 1H+S, since it had better resistance & passives than ice staff. Also on tip for Ebon, don't use weapons/shields, always use armor & jewels, since swapping bars removes the group buff. So you can go Torug: Heavy chest, light wais, medium hands, 1H+S/Ice staff, Ebon jewels, feet, legs, and the monster sets.

That is great info @Asardes !! Thanks heaps, just what I needed. I was wondering if I should just level as dps and level up those tank skills like you said. I only hesitated because like I said, I try to actually learn the class while levelling so when it comes time I have half a clue as to what to do. GW2 has insta 80 tokens and so many use them and no idea how to actually play their class, its sad. But I can rotate a few skills now and then just to get used them. I just didn't want it to become a grind and then get bored and stop...so Cheers again for your info and also to the others. Most appreciated!!

It's more important actually learning the actual tanking role, than figuring "this skill works there".

For example you would be using some generic tanking skills:
- Pierce Armor: taunt and resistance debuff
- Heroic Slash: ultimate generation and enemy damage debuff
- Inner Rage: undaunted ranged taunt (doesn't provide debuffs and it's expensive, so use sparingly)
- Resolving Barrier (ultimate): nice group shield, good on the front bar for the buff to magicka recovery
- Aggressive Horn (ultimate): nice group buff - 10% to all stats for 30s, 15% bonus to all critical damage for 9.5s
- Efficient Purge: really useful in dungeons & trials where you get a lot of debuffs

And some class skills:
- Frozen Device: pulls enemies to you and helps stacking them
- Ice Fortress: self and group resistance buff
- Leeching Vines: self and group heal
- Budding Seeds: same
- Bull Netch: provides stamina and gives damage buff
- Green Lotus: provides healing from heavy attacks and damage buff
- Shimmering Shield: provides protection from projectiles and generates ultimate
- Gripping Shards: AoE CC skill, holds enemies in place
- Enchanted Forest (ultimate): AoE heal and ultimate generation
- Permafrost (ultimate): resistance buff, stuns enemies in the area (more useful for PvP actually)

You can't really learn tanking solo, since you are a group support role. You may try to pin one of the world bosses down and try to survive for starters, but that doesn't teach you much. If you want to learn how to tank, just search video guides and start tanking dungeons yourself. Normal ones and non DLC veterans are pretty easy. Of course you can only slot 10 ordinary skills and 2 ultimates on your bars, but you have to pick the useful ones for the situation.

Here's an example of Warden tank with a typical trial setup.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52284

Joxer61 · May 2018

Thank you @Asardes ! got that link saved for when I get there!

Looks like Warden tank skills are mostly magicka, no? And yea, plan to start running guildies through some stuff so I get better handle on it all. Don't dare throw myself to the wolves that are the pugs....not that confident yet!

Asardes · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

Thank you @Asardes ! got that link saved for when I get there!
Looks like Warden tank skills are mostly magicka, no? And yea, plan to start running guildies through some stuff so I get better handle on it all. Don't dare throw myself to the wolves that are the pugs....not that confident yet!

DK is the same, all class skills you use are magicka. See the equivalent DK build with the exact same gear and similar functionality: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52256 There's a longer discussion here how you should sustain that resource. The real difference between classes is the passives. Since DK doesn't have a passive that boosts magicka recovery like Warden: Animal Companions: Flourish (hence the netch on front bar) but rather one that provides all 3 resources in lump installments DK: Earthen Heart: Battle Roar, it is more efficient to sustain magicka by something that also gives it in lump installments. That skill is called Mages Guild: Balance, but I would advise against using it unless you are 100% sure of how the fight goes and you have an experienced healer since it costs health; some people even use it on Magicka DK DD.

Tasear · May 2018

Habringer set
Twin sisters
Sets in tempest
Heavy set from SCP dungeon

Or just click random normal and level up.

Asardes · May 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Habringer set
Twin sisters
Sets in tempest
Heavy set from SCP dungeon

Or just click random normal and level up.

All are garbage.

VaranisArano · May 2018

I've partially leveled a stam sorc and StamDK as a tank through random normal dungeons. I just equip one hand and shield and a DPS skill (bow or dual world), collect the gear sets from the dungeons I'm running so my gear isn't outdated, and taunt and DPS. All my attribute points go into stam.

Its been working fine, though I do main a tank so I'm familiar with the mechanics. If you are learning to tank as well, I recommend Whitestrakes Retirbution crafted set since it gives a damage shield at 30% health which is amazing for saving you from tanking mistakes.

Joxer61 · May 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

I've partially leveled a stam sorc and StamDK as a tank through random normal dungeons. I just equip one hand and shield and a DPS skill (bow or dual world), collect the gear sets from the dungeons I'm running so my gear isn't outdated, and taunt and DPS. All my attribute points go into stam.

Its been working fine, though I do main a tank so I'm familiar with the mechanics. If you are learning to tank as well, I recommend Whitestrakes Retirbution crafted set since it gives a damage shield at 30% health which is amazing for saving you from tanking mistakes.

Yea, not new to "tanking" as I did it in WOW since vanilla....but new to ESO tanking, and I understand its quite different. But it feels better thus far than GW2 did, where light armor class was tank and no aggro or taunt,just highest toughness held "aggro", very weird, to me.

Asardes · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I've partially leveled a stam sorc and StamDK as a tank through random normal dungeons. I just equip one hand and shield and a DPS skill (bow or dual world), collect the gear sets from the dungeons I'm running so my gear isn't outdated, and taunt and DPS. All my attribute points go into stam.

Its been working fine, though I do main a tank so I'm familiar with the mechanics. If you are learning to tank as well, I recommend Whitestrakes Retirbution crafted set since it gives a damage shield at 30% health which is amazing for saving you from tanking mistakes.

Yea, not new to "tanking" as I did it in WOW since vanilla....but new to ESO tanking, and I understand its quite different. But it feels better thus far than GW2 did, where light armor class was tank and no aggro or taunt,just highest toughness held "aggro", very weird, to me.

In ESO it's pretty much the same if you don't taunt. The boss goes for the squishies in light and medium armor and reks them. I think this pre-aggro is based on casting damage & healing skills at the boss. Highest pre-aggro seems to be generated by ground based DoTs. I use this as DK tank, because I open each trash pull with Cinder Storm on the ground (for Warden it would be Gripping Shards), Elemental Blockade and Razor Caltrops do exactly the same thing. The melee mobs will come straight to you, you'll only need to taunt the biggest, hard hitting one and pull in the archers & spell casters.

SquareSausage · May 2018

As said, level as dps and slot s&b skills on bar to level up. I usally do 2h, with s&b back bar or bow. Id grind in alikir zombies and use volley and cleave to kill big groups.

I also did random dungeon each day for bonus exp queued as tank and when last boss is about to die make sure you are on s&b bar to gain big boost to s&b skill line. id tank all these dungeons even dlc usually in 5 medium green hundings training armour lol.

Joxer61 · May 2018

Asardes wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I've partially leveled a stam sorc and StamDK as a tank through random normal dungeons. I just equip one hand and shield and a DPS skill (bow or dual world), collect the gear sets from the dungeons I'm running so my gear isn't outdated, and taunt and DPS. All my attribute points go into stam.

Its been working fine, though I do main a tank so I'm familiar with the mechanics. If you are learning to tank as well, I recommend Whitestrakes Retirbution crafted set since it gives a damage shield at 30% health which is amazing for saving you from tanking mistakes.

Yea, not new to "tanking" as I did it in WOW since vanilla....but new to ESO tanking, and I understand its quite different. But it feels better thus far than GW2 did, where light armor class was tank and no aggro or taunt,just highest toughness held "aggro", very weird, to me.

In ESO it's pretty much the same if you don't taunt. The boss goes for the squishies in light and medium armor and reks them. I think this pre-aggro is based on casting damage & healing skills at the boss. Highest pre-aggro seems to be generated by ground based DoTs. I use this as DK tank, because I open each trash pull with Cinder Storm on the ground (for Warden it would be Gripping Shards), Elemental Blockade and Razor Caltrops do exactly the same thing. The melee mobs will come straight to you, you'll only need to taunt the biggest, hard hitting one and pull in the archers & spell casters.

Yea in WOW if the dps didn't wait for the tank the would pull aggro and die, then blame tank! Blizzard changed it so tanks could do big dps as well so the actually DD players couldn't really "pull" aggro anymore. From what I have seen ESO is just what you said, lay down the aoes to pull then get big dude.
Thanks!!

BejaProphet · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

Thank you @Asardes ! got that link saved for when I get there!
Looks like Warden tank skills are mostly magicka, no? And yea, plan to start running guildies through some stuff so I get better handle on it all. Don't dare throw myself to the wolves that are the pugs....not that confident yet!

You absolutely should throw yourself to the wolves and PUG normal(non DLC) dungeons. You sound like the type of guy who will get what I am about to say: Don't worry about being good, worry about becoming good. When you start, you are going to stink. Then you are going to think you are good when you aren't. Then finally you are going to look back and laugh that you thought you were good, because you finally know what it really is.

Start the process now. Let yourself suck, so you can earn the experience. It is in the crunch of actual dungeons where you will discover what skills work for YOU, and what skills don't. As one poster said, learning to tank is probably more significant than learning a build. (both matter). You won't learn to tank all that much from reading. Jump in. Be bad. Git gud.

Nestor · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

But question is what did you USE when levelling, way back then? That's my struggle. I can make a build just fine once I am all levelled out and all but the process, to make it less painful,

You really can't level a Tank as a Tank in this game. Instead, level them as a DPS. Along the way to L50 or CP160, whatever your goal is here, use one or two slots as flex to slot skills that you will use as a Tank once you are leveled. Use the other 3 or 4 for combat as needed. And, yes this means going all in on Stamina or Magic as you choose as you level.

Then, respec everything to be a Tank once leveled.

Joxer61 · May 2018

Ok, heres a kicker of a question...which is "easier"...i.e. to learn, use etc...Dk or Warden? My last time playing ESO was 3+yrs ago so yea, considered new here but I went with Warden as it seemed like something diiferent as a tank but is the learning curve going to be such that I throw it in? I'm not one to get discouraged though and don't mind a challenge at all. Hate "press 1 to win" sort of classes.

Lynx7386 · May 2018

I leveled my warden as a tank as well. I used shackle breaker (crafted by my other character every 10 levels or so) with s&b and frost staff, stats split evenly between magicka and stamina. Was a great setup for doing world bosses when you come across them.

Joxer61 · May 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I leveled my warden as a tank as well. I used shackle breaker (crafted by my other character every 10 levels or so) with s&b and frost staff, stats split evenly between magicka and stamina. Was a great setup for doing world bosses when you come across them.

Yea, I'm giving it a go cuz with some damage skills on bar its not to bad, and then when others around I can pull aggro and stuff. want to actually learn the class as I go. but might take suggestions and jump into some runs as well!

Nestor · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

Ok, heres a kicker of a question...which is "easier"...i.e. to learn, use etc...Dk or Warden? My last time playing ESO was 3+yrs ago so yea, considered new here but I went with Warden as it seemed like something diiferent as a tank but is the learning curve going to be such that I throw it in? I'm not one to get discouraged though and don't mind a challenge at all. Hate "press 1 to win" sort of classes.

A DK is the current preferred Tank, but you can tank with any class. Wardens make great tanks, so it is all in what you want to do.

Really, Tanking is more gear and mindset than Meta or BiS

And the future is going to be any Class can do any Role. Headed there, but not arrived

VaranisArano · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

Ok, heres a kicker of a question...which is "easier"...i.e. to learn, use etc...Dk or Warden? My last time playing ESO was 3+yrs ago so yea, considered new here but I went with Warden as it seemed like something diiferent as a tank but is the learning curve going to be such that I throw it in? I'm not one to get discouraged though and don't mind a challenge at all. Hate "press 1 to win" sort of classes.

DK has better crowd control. Warden has better self-heals.

End-game tanks do a lot of crowd control, so DKs tend to be the main tanks, for that and other reasons.

Joxer61 · May 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

Ok, heres a kicker of a question...which is "easier"...i.e. to learn, use etc...Dk or Warden? My last time playing ESO was 3+yrs ago so yea, considered new here but I went with Warden as it seemed like something diiferent as a tank but is the learning curve going to be such that I throw it in? I'm not one to get discouraged though and don't mind a challenge at all. Hate "press 1 to win" sort of classes.

DK has better crowd control. Warden has better self-heals.

End-game tanks do a lot of crowd control, so DKs tend to be the main tanks, for that and other reasons.

So in terms of "easy", both are about the same curve?

Nestor · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

So in terms of "easy", both are about the same curve?

Tanking is different in DPS in that you apply skills in a measured rotation as the buffs or debuffs drop. So, you hit a cerain skill every 10 seconds, not every second. That is the hardest part of learning to tank, is slowing your application of skills.

For example, I use for the first 3 slots Igneous Weapons (30 seconds or more uptime), then Pierce Armor (12 second debuff/15 second taunt) then Herioc Slash (12 second debuff) then the other two slots for whatever, crowd control, self heals, another shield, shield charge, what ever the boss fight needs or I like to use (Chains and another shield in my case)

So, my rotation is for the most part
1, 2, 3, Two Heavy Attacks to restore Attributes, one or two of the Flex skills as needed, 12 seconds should be up by now, then 2, and 3 and two HA's again. I block as needed, but don't' hold perma block. But most importantly, I am not spamming skills over and over like a DPS would. I only apply them as the debuff or buff is going to run out.

BejaProphet · May 2018

I leveled the entire time as a tank. I literally quest in Ebon/Alkosh. Yes its slower. But it's silly to think you can't. I just don't like gear swapping. But more importantly, you can literally level your character start to finish doing endless que's of random dungeons. What's wrong with that? My wife is leveling her healer doing nothing but dungeons because she's all about grouping not soloing. So in multiple ways you can level a tank AS a a tank.

I doubt warden has better self heals. I don't know warden as well but green dragon blood is hard to beat. I was just soloing a world boss literally five minutes ago and it critical healed for 31k. Wardens are better at healing the group while tanking probably, but I doubt they beat GDB for self heal.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2018

Honestly, leveling as a tank is painful, but certainly doable. Level as either magic or stam DPS, and keep a sword and shield skill on your bar at all times to level the line. Also, wear at least one piece of heavy so that gets leveled.

As to attributes, it really does tend to depend on your build to some degree, but the general school of thought is as follows:
Your goal as a tank is to get the most stats possible. This is why most tanks run purple tri stat food, and use as many tri stat glyphs as they can afford. Next, arguably you most important attribute for a tank is arguably health. This is where the bulk of your attribute points will go. Finally, most builds will want to ensure that synergies that return resources will return stamina (not magic) when activated. To ensure this, you need to make sure your stamina pool is ever so slightly higher than your magic pool. In other words, you put a handful in stamina (5-10) and dump the rest into health. Not saying there arent other ways to handle this, but I think that is the most common way I see it done.

Iziquiel · May 2018

Sorry for ressing this thread. I want with the release of Summerset to level a new DK character which I want ultimately to be a tank.

From what ive read so far the main weapon lines to level are S+B and Destro Staff (to give option of using Frost Staff) - are there any others that may be useful?

Joxer61 · May 2018

Iziquiel wrote: »

Sorry for ressing this thread. I want with the release of Summerset to level a new DK character which I want ultimately to be a tank.

From what ive read so far the main weapon lines to level are S+B and Destro Staff (to give option of using Frost Staff) - are there any others that may be useful?

Some say 2H can come in handy in some builds and also bow. But it wouldn't hurt to unlock all if and when you have the points. Until then stick with S&B and destroy staff. (maybe restro staff as well?, I have seen some use that).
Also, from what I have found Woeler has great tank info on his site and also @Liofa has awesome info as well!
Feel free to start up a new thread more specific to your needs and I am sure alot of folks will offer up their expertise....has been huge help for me!
Good luck!

Liofa · May 2018

Here is how I level up a tank. Equip 5 Heavy 1 Light and 1 Medium Armour. All Training. Equip Dual Wield and Bow back bar.

My skill bar look like this at the beginning:

1- Skill from first class tree
2- Skill from second class tree
3- Skill from third class tree
4- Skill from 1h/s tree
5- Dual Wield skill for killing things

When I get access to class ultimates, it becomes this:

1- Skill from class tree
2- Skill from another class tree
3- Skill from 1h/s tree
4- Dual Wield skill for killing things
5- Skill from Destro tree
Ulti- Skill from the third class tree

This way, you level up everything you need. If the class skills you are leveling deals good damage, you can get rid of the Dual Wield skill and slot a Bow/2H/Resto skill, up to you.

Most important thing is, we don't know what is good. That's why I recommend leveling every single skill. Make every skill morphable and move to the next one. While one skill is trash, ZOS can make it necessary for tanks by making a simple change.

Another thing is, don't level up by grinding. I level my characters this way. Gather every single skyshard in the game and enough lorebooks to max out Mages Guild. Visit Wayshrines too. This way, you will be able to hit around level 35 when you are finished. Then, you start the Main Quest line, which gives even more skill points and bring you to around 40-45. Rest are covered in Random Normals easily. So I don't grind at all. When I hit level 50, everything is ready to go. All my skills are leveled, my Undaunted is almost ready, Guilds are leveled etc. All my characters are also crafters so this is something I have to do to have enough skill points. If you don't care about crafting, you can simply ask a friend to grind you up to 50 in Skyreach. Hope this helps, good luck ^^