Please stop saying things are hard to get (achievements, weapons, farming, crafting, etc.).

ookami007 · May 2018

Funny how everyone believes THEIR play style is the right one.

Pink_Violinz · May 2018

I agree mostly. I'll agree that too many feel entitled to be able to complete the content they buy, when refusing to do anything to better themselves.

But there is the case where something is just pointlessly hard. These new little mini trials, which I have expressed my displeasure about more than once, are terrible. A team can steamroll through any other content and then bash their heads against a wall with something like vas hm. A few other things, like Mazzatun hm, are just a disaster of aoes pretending to be mechanics.

ok this got a little ranty but my point still stands.

CelticStones · May 2018

In the last week, two of the communities streamers/pts testers/trials gurus have both made comments about lag affecting their scores, bar swaps, skills going off and rotations. One because he was having to PTS on NA, the other when his ping seemed to be 120 instead of 80 (turned out it was a graphic bug) Now if these two can spot problems with a perceived ping increase of 40 and an increase to 300 from 80 (EU to NA) you have to take them at their word. Many people are on pings greater than 350 at best with spikes into 3k. With mechanics in some of the trials/dlc vets needing instant movement to avoid red death, a little understanding is needed from other players and even the devs. Charging players money for ESO+ or buying DLCs outright, that simply cannot be completed with high and inconsistent ping is a royal pain in the arris. Not many people are suggesting there shouldnt be very high end content for uber leets, but vet dungeons should be possible without having to pay some of these uber leets for a carry or having to listen to teenage ninjas condescending jibes leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Just a little more awareness please.

SHADOW2KK · May 2018

Whiners will whine OP, part of human nature.

If things are too hard to achieve, get better, conquer, or give up.

Azuramoonstar · May 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

Hello everyone,

In reading the forums through the last few months, I just wanted to express that some things just need to be hard to get, even if it's based on player skills or on time invested.

Personally, I'm... (don't want to use word "tired"), let's say I'm saturated hearing nerf this, nerf that, make veteran trials easier, make DLC vet dungeons easier, make vet Maelstrom easier, make vet Dragonstar easier, make some delves/bosses in Craglorn easier, make this achievement easier, make jewelry farming easier, make this item so we can buy it directly, make this so if I get it with one toon it counts for my other 14 toons, and so a long list of etceteras with a lot of different things in the game.

I mean, why EVERYONE has to have EVERYTHING just like that? Without any considerable effort?

Why some people work their a*ses off to get a Legendary Moondancer Ring and so someone that doesn't want to learn, improve or make a real effort, just collects a few mats, improve a blue ring and gets the Legendary one without doing anything other than waiting some days for research traits and picking up a few mats? That was an example with jewelry since it's the "request of the moment", to lower amount of mats.

Why you want vet Maelstrom arena to become easier than what it is once you finish it? Believe me; after you finish it for the first time, you will complete it 1000 more times if you want. I've seen pro players finishing it as well as friends and guildies that are not that good at all (with all due respect to them).

If a skin is hard to get, why asking to nerf the dungeon/trial/boss/mechanics so it can be obtained easily? If a weapon is hard to get, why asking to nerf the content so it can be wielded easily too?

Again, personally, I prefer challenges, solo or in group, but real challenges.

If you need 10x more mats to improve rings, then so be it. If you need to practice, get better, learn and adapt to get a skin or weapon, then so be it.

Is anyone here in a hurry? I don't think so. So play, enjoy the game guys. There are a lot of things in real life that we can't get, that we won't get, ever... and believe me, here, in TESO, if you work for it, you can get it; everything. Well... maybe the Radiant Apex mounts, but it's OK, I don't like to see everyone with the same stuff. Some things just need to be exclusive.

I remember when people were dressing all the same, but nowadays you don't see not even one player dressed exactly the same as another player. Original and unique things. I love that!

Please, don't ask to nerf stuff so things can be obtained easily.

Thank you.

difficulty is subjective, your "too easy" is another persons "too hard", and vice versa.
also item exclusivity don't work in MMO.
thank you.

(from someone who don't ask for nerfs, and can play all day everyday and beats most game in 2 days-2 weeks)

CelticStones · May 2018

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Whiners will whine OP, part of human nature.

If things are too hard to achieve, get better, conquer, or give up.

Bless...... it was the OP that started this thread whining about others

SHADOW2KK · May 2018

CelticStones wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Whiners will whine OP, part of human nature.

If things are too hard to achieve, get better, conquer, or give up.

Bless...... it was the OP that started this thread whining about others

Lol I know, I was wanting the OP to read it and realise the irony

WuffyCerulei · May 2018

A few things, like DLC dungeon and trial rewards are hard to get, but that's the point. People shouldn't complain about a nice thing if they aren't willing to work to get it. Want a skin a from a trial or dungeon? WORK FOR IT. It doesn't take a genius to realize that.

Eyro · May 2018

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A few things, like DLC dungeon and trial rewards are hard to get, but that's the point. People shouldn't complain about a nice thing if they aren't willing to work to get it. Want a skin a from a trial or dungeon? WORK FOR IT. It doesn't take a genius to realize that.

Or at the very least find enough decent players to carry you through it!! RIGHT???!!!

Elephant42 · May 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

Hello everyone,

In reading the forums through the last few months, I just wanted to express that some things just need to be hard to get, even if it's based on player skills or on time invested.-snip-

You might like grinding and farming till your eyes bleed, you might like spending hours and hours and hours mindlessly attacking a target dummy to get a milli second precise rotation, you might enjoy playing with a mouse in one hand and a calculator in the other, you might get a lot of satisfaction from being willing and/or able to obtain desirable things that most others are unwilling and/or unable to obtain - some of us (actually I suspect a LOT of us) don't...

Some of us think that it's not unreasonable to want to access ALL of the _content_ in a game we have paid hard earned cash for by just playing the game with a _reasonable_ level of dedication and skill and without having to run the same content over and over and over again...

Azuramoonstar · May 2018

Elephant42 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Hello everyone,

In reading the forums through the last few months, I just wanted to express that some things just need to be hard to get, even if it's based on player skills or on time invested.-snip-

You might like grinding and farming till your eyes bleed, you might like spending hours and hours and hours mindlessly attacking a target dummy to get a milli second precise rotation, you might enjoy playing with a mouse in one hand and a calculator in the other, you might get a lot of satisfaction from being willing and/or able to obtain desirable things that most others are unwilling and/or unable to obtain - some of us (actually I suspect a LOT of us) don't...

Some of us think that it's not unreasonable to want to access ALL of the _content_ in a game we have paid hard earned cash for by just playing the game with a _reasonable_ level of dedication and skill and without having to run the same content over and over and over again...

this

MMO can't survive by the 1%. Everyone pays for the content. ff14 used to cater to the 1% and it failed, a lot of stuff had to get changed up after relaunch.

Asking for more access isn't a bad thing, and it brings in more players. Should stuff get too simple? no. But remember ESO is unlike most mmo with a higher learning curve, not a bad thing but it can scare people off.

But a lot of people ESO is considered third best MMO after WoW and ff14. I'm seeing long time ff14 content creators try ESO and enjoying it.

Meesha1170 · May 2018

I agree for the most part on keeping things difficult but only in terms of requiring skill, that I get, it feels great to beat a challenging part of a game. Having to do the same thing ad nauseum to get an item you're looking for is irritating as hell and it's the reason I won't do certain content. If, for example, I could choose the weapon I want after beating VMA then I would be incentivized to do it.

Azuramoonstar · May 2018

Meesha1170 wrote: »

I agree for the most part on keeping things difficult but only in terms of requiring skill, that I get, it feels great to beat a challenging part of a game. Having to do the same thing ad nauseum to get an item you're looking for is irritating as hell and it's the reason I won't do certain content. If, for example, I could choose the weapon I want after beating VMA then I would be incentivized to do it.

And i see a good few mmo do just this. nothing wrong with it, people should be playing content because it is fun, not just the reward.

in ff11 when i beat the lvl 70 cap maat fight after 80 times, i was extremely happy. I literally cried. The fight was fun and challenging but you only had to do it once.

there was a good gear piece if you did this fight as every job, but it wasn't forced on the player. I knew a few ppl that had the hat gear piece and enjoyed having it it was there goal. You was never called out for doing it once either. It was never a discussion.

Nor should it be, a players worth should not be how often they farm content. But how good of a player they are in skill and attitude.

Dapper Dinosaur · May 2018

Having mount training not only applicable to one character, but also keeping the timegate on the training, is the single most pointlessly asinine way Zenimax could have implemented the system.

HappyLittleTree · May 2018

1000% agree!

In my opinion some content should even be scaled up some more^^

Vahrokh · May 2018

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Problem is you need BiS gear to beat Vet trials or even be allowed in team, but in order to get them you need to beat the trial.

Unless you start your own guild or something and find another 11 people who are willing to follow a system and be organized, which is not something accessable to most players.

problem with 12 man vet trials is that people can find teams more than they cant do them.

About VMA I beat it a lot, but still think its cheap more than it is hard

Not really. Yesterday I have joined vMOL on my sorc alt, she does not even have monster set.

lakaisl · May 2018

I disagree, as a casual player I have the same right to all the content. I pay just as much as everyone else, or maybe even more because I buy a lot of stuff in the crown store (saves time).

So I think making it easier isn't the best solutions, but make all the content available to all kind of players not just the people with more spare time.

Carbonised · May 2018

What a completely unconstructive and pointless post, which appears to be little more than a strawman attack.

First of all, considering that jewelcrafting is "fine" as the OP does, shows a complete lack of knowledge of the actual implementation. Code made a post a little while back with the actual numbers backing it up, and we who have actually tested it on the PTS can clearly see the enormous grind associated with especially upgrade mats.
When upgrading to a green ring takes as much grind as upgrading to a gold armor/weapon, then clearly something is very wrong, which is why Code's post garnered as much support as it did.
That OP fails to realise this, and lumps jewelrycrafting grinds together with something as completely and utterly different as vet content just shows the lack of point of the post.

Secondly, OP mentions furnishing plans as something people should "stop complaining about", once again I'm tempted to say that OP has little to no knowledge about how furnishing plans actually work in this game, much like the devs themselves. There was a reason no one bothered with Vvardenfell plans and asked for them to be more readily available for almost a year until we finally got the documents. For the large majority of players, the DLC plans (and some dwemer and ayleid) are rarer than unicorns, and the whole system feels like an endless grind that pretty much shoves you into the crown store to spend money instead. Asking people to "chill down and stop complaining about that" is ignorant at best.

Finally then there's all the strawman arguments. For apparently we are so narrow-sighted that either things have to be butt-hard to get and find, droprates have to be rarer than unicorns and we have to grind for hours and hours on end for even the simplest things - or everything has to be handed to us for free, for participation, and within a few minutes. This kind of black and white thinking is not fruitful in the least, and is what usually constitutes strawmen attacks. No one is asking to get anything handed to them, people are asking for a somewhat /reasonable/ middle ground where the rewards feel like they correlate with the time and effort put in. Currently, that is /not/ the case with some furnishing plans and jewelrycrafting.
Stop attacking strawmen and split everything into either-or arguments, and listen to what people /actually/ say.

Some of us actually have jobs and lives to attend to, and would like to progress in this game and collect furniture plans and jewelry mats without having to devote our entire spare time in order to do so. Especially when it is plain to see that the artificial grinds introduced into this game time and time again is little more than an attempt to shove you into the crown store to pay for the convenience to circumvent said grinds. This type of game system is indeed what is associated with mobile games and cheap freetoplay MMOs, not triple-A titles such as an Elder Scrolls game.

Dragonnord · May 2018

lakaisl wrote: »

I disagree, as a casual player I have the same right to all the content. I pay just as much as everyone else, or maybe even more because I buy a lot of stuff in the crown store (saves time).

So I think making it easier isn't the best solutions, but make all the content available to all kind of players not just the people with more spare time.

You have the same right to get it, it just depends on you.

And what you mean with making the content available for everyone but without making it easier?

lakaisl · May 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

lakaisl wrote: »

I disagree, as a casual player I have the same right to all the content. I pay just as much as everyone else, or maybe even more because I buy a lot of stuff in the crown store (saves time).

So I think making it easier isn't the best solutions, but make all the content available to all kind of players not just the people with more spare time.

You have the same right to get it, it just depends on you.

And what you mean with making the content available for everyone but without making it easier?

Let me buy the stuff. Get rid of Bind on Pick-up. That way other people can spend loads of time getting on 'leaderboards' and help me get certain sets. WIN WIN!

It shouldn't depend on me, then I choose to pay lesa for the game.

Dragonnord · May 2018

lakaisl wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

lakaisl wrote: »

I disagree, as a casual player I have the same right to all the content. I pay just as much as everyone else, or maybe even more because I buy a lot of stuff in the crown store (saves time).

So I think making it easier isn't the best solutions, but make all the content available to all kind of players not just the people with more spare time.

You have the same right to get it, it just depends on you.

And what you mean with making the content available for everyone but without making it easier?

Let me buy the stuff. Get rid of Bind on Pick-up. That way other people can spend loads of time getting on 'leaderboards' and help me get certain sets. WIN WIN!

It shouldn't depend on me, then I choose to pay lesa for the game.

No please, no P2W please. Players should work and improve to get what they want. That would make group content experience a lot better.

lakaisl · May 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

lakaisl wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

lakaisl wrote: »

I disagree, as a casual player I have the same right to all the content. I pay just as much as everyone else, or maybe even more because I buy a lot of stuff in the crown store (saves time).

So I think making it easier isn't the best solutions, but make all the content available to all kind of players not just the people with more spare time.

You have the same right to get it, it just depends on you.

And what you mean with making the content available for everyone but without making it easier?

Let me buy the stuff. Get rid of Bind on Pick-up. That way other people can spend loads of time getting on 'leaderboards' and help me get certain sets. WIN WIN!

It shouldn't depend on me, then I choose to pay lesa for the game.

No please, no P2W please. Players should work and improve to get what they want. That would make group content experience a lot better.

How is buying sets with in-game gold pay to win?

JesQu · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Ikr? Like if they want vma weapons they should earn it.

vma ain't even hard, did it yesterday without looking at difficulty, thought it was on normal.

TheCyberDruid · May 2018

Telling people what they should and should not do is clearly the best way to express one's opinion on a forum.

/s

greylox · May 2018

Vet shouldn't mean nightmarish, that's for hard mode. We need 3 clear levels of content, not 2.5

Also with little to no rewards for doing normal (skins etc), I only do the new dlc dungeons once or twice.

Ajaxduo · May 2018

I wonder if people would still be crying for nerfs if they added an insanity difficulty tier to dungeons and trials?

DieAlteHexe · May 2018

[Snip]

Well, I'll chime in then so there's someone different...

There are people playing this game from the very young to retirees. They come in all levels of ability, focus, likes and dislikes. What I could do 10 years ago, I can no longer do or not as well anyway. But that doesn't mean that I don't still really, really enjoy my gaming.

What needs to be understood here is that we all differ. Gaming is not longer milieu of young men. It has expanded to encompass all ages and gender. So when someone comes along and tries to issue, as fact, an assertion, they're not likely to be seeing the entire picture anymore nevermind not understanding that MMOs these days are meant to encompass multiple playstyles, age-groups and focal points.

Couple that with a studio's desire to make money and, hopefully a profit, and they WILL go with what their metrics show them. When ZoS came out with 1 Tamriel, they showed that they understand the concept that there are multiple playstyles and adjusted based on their data. It was a smart move.

Trying to define "easy" and apply it to everyone is a waste of energy. Too diverse of a population. And the way I see it? A game is on offer. If we like it, great, we stay and play. Sure we can make suggestions but trying to get other gamers to stop making suggestions or commentary about their experience simply won't work nor should it.

I am not even sure that studios can crank out content fast enough for the upper echelons. Some players are just so good and so quick to parse things out it would be difficult to do so.

[Edited for quotes]

DieAlteHexe · May 2018

Ajaxduo wrote: »

I wonder if people would still be crying for nerfs if they added an insanity difficulty tier to dungeons and trials?

Historically? Yes, they would, eventually. Usually it's a matter of figuring out how to approach the content and then conquer it. For some who are truly dedicated, it doesn't take long. Then they YouTube it and pretty soon more and more folks conquer it and the cycle repeats.

Asardes · May 2018

I have no issue with achievements that require actual skill, but I do have an issue with those requiring basically mindless grind, such as killing X mobs, or completing Y quests of the same kind, each with his own mini-grind, such as gather Z items, run around in the whole zone "saving" NPCs etc. or worse, things that require you to grind until you get lucky, such as Angler and Trophy hunter achievements. Those drive me nuts and I would gladly want them nerfed; ZoS already understood how unpleasant they are and nerfed some of them a bit. But hey, we get jewelry grind next patch so hooray, go get a frontal lobotomy so you can do the node grind with a straight face.

pod88kk · May 2018

Keep things at the difficulty they are at not, it gives people something to work towards.