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Race balance suggestion and solution for all racial problems (Birthsigns)
marcel91x
✭✭
Hello ZOS + ESO Community,
for a while now there has been some discussion going on about race balance and to be competitive you must play this and that race to get high in the leaderboards in PVE, in PVP to be competitive and be able to run certain builds, without putting endless glyphs in for sustain or other things to lose dmg etc.
I saw with my own eyes mobbing in pve and pvp environment. There was a Bosmer magSorc queued in the dungeon finder for a DLC dungeon and my group mates wanted to kick him by saying he won't pull off enough dps for beeing the wrong race. Yesterday in Cyrodiil I met an Khajiit Magplar that people were trolling and laughing for beeing a Khajiit magplar with comments like: does your wpn crit and health regen help you in any way to do dps or heal people more? And constantly I see Bosmer complain how they can't pull as much DPS as Redguards through racials in VMA, how Nords make terrible magSorc DDs because they won't sustain or do enough dmg. How a friend of mine wants to be a magSorc Khajiit but gets no benefit at all and is behind an Altmer and Breton in multiple ways.
From my and other peoples gaming experience in previous Elder Scrolls it was possible to literally pick any race for any magicka or stamina based playstyle without differences and roleplay freely and be whatever you wanted to be, like becoming a Nord or Imperial Archmage without having any noticeable disadvantages. Elder Scrolls games had always very few racial passives to begin with usually 1-2 and only skills higher in certain areas that can be outleveled and still maxxed at the end game content and you saw no real difference between the races since all could be maxxed. Talking from an competitive MMORPG perspective where people want to have the best stats, get into trials(PVE) and elite pvp guilds and have all sorts of benefits from a race to be at the top and in the best guilds it is kind of an thorn in they eye to be stuck on certain races to be max stats and best performing. Races should be more a matter of roleplaying and cosmetic because you love the asthetics of a race.
There has also been an known racial balance issues for a while, however I found a solution that fixxes the problems that are out there. The removal of all middle racial passives and adding of birthsigns that can be picked just once but changed by a birthsign change token from the crown store that could be offered for 3000 crowns just like the race change token (basically does nearly the same stat wise) the birthsigns have 3 passives that require skillpoints just like the previous racial passives to be unlocked.
Now to the point of Birthsigns how could those look like and be implemented? To do that we must look at all major playstyles that are out there. We have the stamina DDs, we have the stamina tanks, we have the magicka DDs, we have the magicka tanks, we have the magicka healers, we have the thiefs/assassins (mostly NB but other classes have been used too for a sneak playstyle). According to those playstyles we could look at the currently most performing races (BIS race) and let birthsigns look like this for example:
Warrior(stam DD): 1. exhilaration: increases stamina recovery by 9%
2. conditioning: increases max stamina by 10%
3. unique birthsign passive berserker: 10% chance to gain 4% wpn dmg from melee attacks for 6 seconds, has a 5 seconds cooldown after its duration.
Tower(tank) : 1. enduring: increases health regeneration by 30% while in combat
2. stalwart: increases max health by 12%
3. unique birthsign passive Bullwark: 6% chance to restore 4% max health and 4% max stam whenever you take dmg
Mage(mag DD): 1. spellcharge: increases magicka recovery by 9%
2. magicka mastery: increases max magicka by 10%
3. unique birthsign passive mages wrath: 10% chance to gain 4% spell dmg from staff or melee attacks(for dual wield and 2h magicka DD builds) for 6 seconds, has a 5 seconds cooldown after its duration.
Atronach(mag tank): 1. alchemist: whenever you drink a potion you gain 12% of your max health/stam/mag
2. sturdy: increases max health by 10%
3. unique birthsign passive spell absorption: 6% chance to absorb 100% of a spells(magic based) dmg and to restore 4% max magicka and 4% max health
The Ritual(mag healer) : 1. reduces the magicka cost of spells by 3%
2. increases max magicka by 10%
3. unique birthsign passive healer: increases healing done and received by 5%
The shadow(thief/assassin): 1. presistent, increases stamina recovery by 10% and health recovery by 20%
2. precise weapons: increases wpn critical by 8%
2. unique birthsign passive sneaky: increases stealth radius by 3m and increases dmg done while stealthed by 10% (I know many people wished for that passive to be available to other races as well apart from bosmer/khajiit to become a master thief/assassin on any race)
Racial passives would look like this now:
Altmer: 1. Destruction Staff mastery: Increases your experience gain with the Destruction Staff Skill line by 15%. Increases your experience gain by 1%.
2. Blessing of longevity: whenever you cast a magicka or stamina ability you have a 6% chance to negate the abilities cost (Altmers live longer and therefor can master skills over many years).
Bosmer: 1. Acrobat: Increases experience gain with Bow Skill Line by 15%. Decreases your fall damage taken by 10%.
2. Y'ffres blessing: whenever you kill a target you gain 6% max health, max magicka and max stamina this effect has a 8 seconds cooldown (nothing game breaking since this has a 8 seconds cooldown. In Khajiit vs Bosmer in PVE Trials you will have a insignifcan't difference in sustain that nobody that plays well notices).
Khajiit: 1. Cutpurse: Increases experience gain with Medium Armor by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
2. Feline swiftness: reduces the cost of sprint by 12% and increases the speed while sprinting by 12% (that makes absolutely sense since cats by biology are very agile and fast and should be faster than any humanoid by anatomy).
Imperial: 1. Diplomat: Increases experience gain with One-Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%. Increases your gold gained by 1%.
2. red Diamond: melee and range (staves included + bows) attacks have a 10%. chance to restore 6% max health.
Breton: 1. Opportunist: Increases experience gain with the Light Armor skill line by 15% Increases your Alliance Points gained by 1%.
2. Spell resistance: Increases your Spell Resistance by 3960. (it is not high, nothing balance breaking and useful for stam and mag)
Redguard: 1. Wayfarer : Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.
2. Fearless: When you deal damage with a melee or staff attack, you restore 792 Stamina and 792 magicka. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. (Adrenaline rush was way too stamina focused it maybe won't matter since even mag needs some stamina to CC break + dodgeroll and it is a minor sustain passive but still)
Orsimer: 1. Craftsman : Increases experience gain with the Heavy Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your crafting inspiration gained by 10%.
2. Berserking Warrior: Increases your dmg done with melee and staff attacks by 4%.
Argonian: 1. Amphibian: Increases your experience gain with the Restoration Staff skill line by 15%. Increases your swimming speed by 50%.
2. Hist Skin: Increases your Poison and Disease Resistance by 1485. and increases your healing received by 4%. (excluded "done this to others" to make other races a top choice for healers too with no race beeing superior in that aspect otherwise it could stack with the Ritual birthsign)
Dunmer: 1. Ashlander: Increases your experience gain with the Dual Wield skill line by 15%. Reduces your damage taken from environmental lava by 50%.
2. Destruction mastery: Increases your Flame Resistance by 2079 and increases your flame and poison dmg by 3%
Nord: 1. Reveler: Increases your experience gain with the Two Handed skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes.
2. Rugged: Increases your Cold Resistance by 2079 and reduces the dmg you take by 4% (rank1: 2%)
This new changes if they were going to be considered would make races more of a makeup and tiny preferance.
I give 4 examples with 2 pve and 2 pvp each:
PVE:
1. Nord vs Dunmer stamDK DD for PVE with the Warrior birthsign: The dunmer would do 3% more dmg on poison dots and take a bit less dmg from fire attacks from NPCs while the other stamDK (nord) would take 4% less dmg and be more resistant to frost dmg of NPCs since both values are so low it is rather a preference and barely noticeable. The game breaking things are more the birthsigns now than racials.
2. Altmer vs Orsimer(Orc) magSorc in PVE with mage birthsign: the Altmer would sometimes get magicka refunded from abilities and have tiny bit better mag sustain, the Orsimer would do a tiny bit more dmg on light attacks. At the end it would be preference as well.
PVP:
Khajiit vs Bosmer stamNB for PVP in medium armor 2h and bow with Shadow birthsign: the Bosmer gets a bit of more ressources back from killing enemy players (Tri-stat) however the Khajiit will be the more mobile option that can sprint faster. Otherwise their stats and dmg is the same and we won't have people ever complain again that Bosmer are better in PVP than Khajiit and that Khajiit are better in PVE than Bosmer since now you can literally have almost the same passives as Khajiit as an Bosmer. This puts them as equals.
MagDK Argonian vs Dunmer for PVP with Mage birthsign: Now this gets interesting Argonian seems now to be the minor better counter to stamina players (disease + poison dmg, NBs, stamDKs, other classes with poison+ disease glyphs) and dunmer against magicka players (fire resistance, many magicka players run fire dmg abilities, staves, flame reach, magdks, etc.). The Tradeoff is just those resistances and 3% more fire dmg or 4% more healing received. If both were to duel each other with same gear the better one would win not the one with the best stats in this case. Would really make other races apart from Dunmer viable for magDK without any huge disadvantages, Altmer could also get now interesting.
Overall this idea would make races more cosmetic and I am sure many players would welcome such a change. It would not effect the crown store in a negative way since now you could purchase birth sign change tokens in addition to race change tokens for the same price (currently 3000 crowns). Maybe there could be a offer for 4000 Crowns with a pack including a race + birthsign change for those that want to play now their favorite race without having a huge disadvantage stat wise.
As a last question to you guys, did anyone experience race discrimination as well in ESO? Like beeing joked about or getting kicked from a group for beeing not the ideal race for DD or tanking or maybe saw it beeing done to someone? Please share your stories. I really hope 1 day race won't matter and be asthetics mostly.
If you not liking any of my suggestions and find some passives too weak or strong, feel free to give me some feedback as well. Afterall we as an community should also try to improve the game and give the developers some postive constructive feedback.
Greetings,
Marcel
for a while now there has been some discussion going on about race balance and to be competitive you must play this and that race to get high in the leaderboards in PVE, in PVP to be competitive and be able to run certain builds, without putting endless glyphs in for sustain or other things to lose dmg etc.
I saw with my own eyes mobbing in pve and pvp environment. There was a Bosmer magSorc queued in the dungeon finder for a DLC dungeon and my group mates wanted to kick him by saying he won't pull off enough dps for beeing the wrong race. Yesterday in Cyrodiil I met an Khajiit Magplar that people were trolling and laughing for beeing a Khajiit magplar with comments like: does your wpn crit and health regen help you in any way to do dps or heal people more? And constantly I see Bosmer complain how they can't pull as much DPS as Redguards through racials in VMA, how Nords make terrible magSorc DDs because they won't sustain or do enough dmg. How a friend of mine wants to be a magSorc Khajiit but gets no benefit at all and is behind an Altmer and Breton in multiple ways.
From my and other peoples gaming experience in previous Elder Scrolls it was possible to literally pick any race for any magicka or stamina based playstyle without differences and roleplay freely and be whatever you wanted to be, like becoming a Nord or Imperial Archmage without having any noticeable disadvantages. Elder Scrolls games had always very few racial passives to begin with usually 1-2 and only skills higher in certain areas that can be outleveled and still maxxed at the end game content and you saw no real difference between the races since all could be maxxed. Talking from an competitive MMORPG perspective where people want to have the best stats, get into trials(PVE) and elite pvp guilds and have all sorts of benefits from a race to be at the top and in the best guilds it is kind of an thorn in they eye to be stuck on certain races to be max stats and best performing. Races should be more a matter of roleplaying and cosmetic because you love the asthetics of a race.
There has also been an known racial balance issues for a while, however I found a solution that fixxes the problems that are out there. The removal of all middle racial passives and adding of birthsigns that can be picked just once but changed by a birthsign change token from the crown store that could be offered for 3000 crowns just like the race change token (basically does nearly the same stat wise) the birthsigns have 3 passives that require skillpoints just like the previous racial passives to be unlocked.
Now to the point of Birthsigns how could those look like and be implemented? To do that we must look at all major playstyles that are out there. We have the stamina DDs, we have the stamina tanks, we have the magicka DDs, we have the magicka tanks, we have the magicka healers, we have the thiefs/assassins (mostly NB but other classes have been used too for a sneak playstyle). According to those playstyles we could look at the currently most performing races (BIS race) and let birthsigns look like this for example:
Warrior(stam DD): 1. exhilaration: increases stamina recovery by 9%
2. conditioning: increases max stamina by 10%
3. unique birthsign passive berserker: 10% chance to gain 4% wpn dmg from melee attacks for 6 seconds, has a 5 seconds cooldown after its duration.
Tower(tank) : 1. enduring: increases health regeneration by 30% while in combat
2. stalwart: increases max health by 12%
3. unique birthsign passive Bullwark: 6% chance to restore 4% max health and 4% max stam whenever you take dmg
Mage(mag DD): 1. spellcharge: increases magicka recovery by 9%
2. magicka mastery: increases max magicka by 10%
3. unique birthsign passive mages wrath: 10% chance to gain 4% spell dmg from staff or melee attacks(for dual wield and 2h magicka DD builds) for 6 seconds, has a 5 seconds cooldown after its duration.
Atronach(mag tank): 1. alchemist: whenever you drink a potion you gain 12% of your max health/stam/mag
2. sturdy: increases max health by 10%
3. unique birthsign passive spell absorption: 6% chance to absorb 100% of a spells(magic based) dmg and to restore 4% max magicka and 4% max health
The Ritual(mag healer) : 1. reduces the magicka cost of spells by 3%
2. increases max magicka by 10%
3. unique birthsign passive healer: increases healing done and received by 5%
The shadow(thief/assassin): 1. presistent, increases stamina recovery by 10% and health recovery by 20%
2. precise weapons: increases wpn critical by 8%
2. unique birthsign passive sneaky: increases stealth radius by 3m and increases dmg done while stealthed by 10% (I know many people wished for that passive to be available to other races as well apart from bosmer/khajiit to become a master thief/assassin on any race)
Racial passives would look like this now:
Altmer: 1. Destruction Staff mastery: Increases your experience gain with the Destruction Staff Skill line by 15%. Increases your experience gain by 1%.
2. Blessing of longevity: whenever you cast a magicka or stamina ability you have a 6% chance to negate the abilities cost (Altmers live longer and therefor can master skills over many years).
Bosmer: 1. Acrobat: Increases experience gain with Bow Skill Line by 15%. Decreases your fall damage taken by 10%.
2. Y'ffres blessing: whenever you kill a target you gain 6% max health, max magicka and max stamina this effect has a 8 seconds cooldown (nothing game breaking since this has a 8 seconds cooldown. In Khajiit vs Bosmer in PVE Trials you will have a insignifcan't difference in sustain that nobody that plays well notices).
Khajiit: 1. Cutpurse: Increases experience gain with Medium Armor by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
2. Feline swiftness: reduces the cost of sprint by 12% and increases the speed while sprinting by 12% (that makes absolutely sense since cats by biology are very agile and fast and should be faster than any humanoid by anatomy).
Imperial: 1. Diplomat: Increases experience gain with One-Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%. Increases your gold gained by 1%.
2. red Diamond: melee and range (staves included + bows) attacks have a 10%. chance to restore 6% max health.
Breton: 1. Opportunist: Increases experience gain with the Light Armor skill line by 15% Increases your Alliance Points gained by 1%.
2. Spell resistance: Increases your Spell Resistance by 3960. (it is not high, nothing balance breaking and useful for stam and mag)
Redguard: 1. Wayfarer : Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.
2. Fearless: When you deal damage with a melee or staff attack, you restore 792 Stamina and 792 magicka. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. (Adrenaline rush was way too stamina focused it maybe won't matter since even mag needs some stamina to CC break + dodgeroll and it is a minor sustain passive but still)
Orsimer: 1. Craftsman : Increases experience gain with the Heavy Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your crafting inspiration gained by 10%.
2. Berserking Warrior: Increases your dmg done with melee and staff attacks by 4%.
Argonian: 1. Amphibian: Increases your experience gain with the Restoration Staff skill line by 15%. Increases your swimming speed by 50%.
2. Hist Skin: Increases your Poison and Disease Resistance by 1485. and increases your healing received by 4%. (excluded "done this to others" to make other races a top choice for healers too with no race beeing superior in that aspect otherwise it could stack with the Ritual birthsign)
Dunmer: 1. Ashlander: Increases your experience gain with the Dual Wield skill line by 15%. Reduces your damage taken from environmental lava by 50%.
2. Destruction mastery: Increases your Flame Resistance by 2079 and increases your flame and poison dmg by 3%
Nord: 1. Reveler: Increases your experience gain with the Two Handed skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes.
2. Rugged: Increases your Cold Resistance by 2079 and reduces the dmg you take by 4% (rank1: 2%)
This new changes if they were going to be considered would make races more of a makeup and tiny preferance.
I give 4 examples with 2 pve and 2 pvp each:
PVE:
1. Nord vs Dunmer stamDK DD for PVE with the Warrior birthsign: The dunmer would do 3% more dmg on poison dots and take a bit less dmg from fire attacks from NPCs while the other stamDK (nord) would take 4% less dmg and be more resistant to frost dmg of NPCs since both values are so low it is rather a preference and barely noticeable. The game breaking things are more the birthsigns now than racials.
2. Altmer vs Orsimer(Orc) magSorc in PVE with mage birthsign: the Altmer would sometimes get magicka refunded from abilities and have tiny bit better mag sustain, the Orsimer would do a tiny bit more dmg on light attacks. At the end it would be preference as well.
PVP:
Khajiit vs Bosmer stamNB for PVP in medium armor 2h and bow with Shadow birthsign: the Bosmer gets a bit of more ressources back from killing enemy players (Tri-stat) however the Khajiit will be the more mobile option that can sprint faster. Otherwise their stats and dmg is the same and we won't have people ever complain again that Bosmer are better in PVP than Khajiit and that Khajiit are better in PVE than Bosmer since now you can literally have almost the same passives as Khajiit as an Bosmer. This puts them as equals.
MagDK Argonian vs Dunmer for PVP with Mage birthsign: Now this gets interesting Argonian seems now to be the minor better counter to stamina players (disease + poison dmg, NBs, stamDKs, other classes with poison+ disease glyphs) and dunmer against magicka players (fire resistance, many magicka players run fire dmg abilities, staves, flame reach, magdks, etc.). The Tradeoff is just those resistances and 3% more fire dmg or 4% more healing received. If both were to duel each other with same gear the better one would win not the one with the best stats in this case. Would really make other races apart from Dunmer viable for magDK without any huge disadvantages, Altmer could also get now interesting.
Overall this idea would make races more cosmetic and I am sure many players would welcome such a change. It would not effect the crown store in a negative way since now you could purchase birth sign change tokens in addition to race change tokens for the same price (currently 3000 crowns). Maybe there could be a offer for 4000 Crowns with a pack including a race + birthsign change for those that want to play now their favorite race without having a huge disadvantage stat wise.
As a last question to you guys, did anyone experience race discrimination as well in ESO? Like beeing joked about or getting kicked from a group for beeing not the ideal race for DD or tanking or maybe saw it beeing done to someone? Please share your stories. I really hope 1 day race won't matter and be asthetics mostly.
If you not liking any of my suggestions and find some passives too weak or strong, feel free to give me some feedback as well. Afterall we as an community should also try to improve the game and give the developers some postive constructive feedback.
Greetings,
Marcel
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭no one said there was a problem.
please let the devs decide on these things, and allow us to keep eso the way it was built.0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Racials are fine. Let it go. High Elfs should be better magic sorcs than Reguards and vice versa. This is a MMO not Skyrim5 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Racial passives have a rich tradition in Elder Scrolls lore ... I don’t think we want to change those to be simply “cosmetic”.
Racial choices are on the player.
If they want to go against the grain and have a Khajiit magicka DPS, they will do fine in most content anyway.
For end game content, they know what they are getting into ... but race change tokens are readily at their disposal.3 -
marcel91x✭✭@Taleof2Cities Yes but what if you want to stay a Khajiit or Orc and play as a magicka DD in competitive endgame environment. This is Elder Scrolls afterall. In Skyrim, Oblivion you could for example be any race with same mag sustain and dmg.0
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Honestly, it's a non issue.
PvP it makes somewhat of a difference, but as long as your race is in the right ball park for if you're stam or mag (being a redguard, orc, imperial, bosmer or khajit on a stam build) but it isn't huge. And if you are the opposite, you can easily just do a magica build with it. Even if you don't, having more Stam or magica sustain on a build that is based around the opposite resource isn't terrible. PvP is way more complex than stacking as much into one or two stats as high as you can.
Endgame dps it makes a difference, but you're talking about like 1% of the playerbase who care. If you do care that much, you could easily just create a new character with the right race. Levelling is stupidly easily now. You can get to 50 very quick. Undaunted is pretty easy to get (stupidly easily if you are in a guild - which if you're doing trial runs for score you already are) and getting pvp skills is really easy and quick. Is it ideal? No. But if you care enough it's not much work.
Aside from those two things, it doesn't matter at all. Sure, tanking on a khajit is harder than an argonian for example, but for 90% of the stuff in the game it makes no difference.
Some weaker races could be inmproved for sure. Nord, Breton and khajit lack any real place in any content (is you care about min maxing) so could do with a little (not a huge amount) adjusting. It's not the massive issue you're making it out to be.
The birthsign thing is no different. I choose a healer one (which I'm locked into, just like race) so I'm forever stuck with passives that boost that. What if I want to turn into Stam dps? What do I do then? A birthsign would be as permanent as race. There's no difference other than purely look or RP.Edited by Brrrofski on April 28, 2018 6:03PM0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭@Taleof2Cities Yes but what if you want to stay a Khajiit or Orc and play as a magicka DD in competitive endgame environment. This is Elder Scrolls afterall. In Skyrim, Oblivion you could for example be any race with same mag sustain and dmg.
You can still be competitive as any race. You don't lose much but like 5% dps1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Agreed, and yes, the whole "must be THIS race to play THAT" is vexing.for a while now there has been some discussion going on about race balance and to be competitive you must play this and that race to get high in the leaderboards in PVE, in PVP to be competitive and be able to run certain builds, without putting endless glyphs in for sustain or other things to lose dmg etc.
Then you have not been paying attention.From my and other peoples gaming experience in previous Elder Scrolls it was possible to literally pick any race for any magicka or stamina based playstyle without differences...
There -always- have been racial differences in the elder scrolls...
...there have -always- been races that got a leg up in magica handling or weapon swinging, one way or another...
...just...
...not -quite- as bad as in ESO.
Even in the games where most of the racial differences were just starting with a skill and attribute bonus, meaning any other race merely had to put more effort into reaching the max, even there some races had an extra advantage thanks to some special trait like "Enhanced Magica"...
...but agreed, it was nowhere near as bad as it has become in ESO with the current "percentage on top" system.
And yes, there should be some changes made...
...however, not -that- sort of change.There has also been an known racial balance issues for a while, however I found a solution that fixxes the problems that are out there. The removal of all middle racial passives and adding of birthsigns...
For one, the fact that some races have some advantage in some fields is an established part of the elder scrolls lore. Like where the racial descriptions always mention stuff like "The Altmer are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races" or "Redguards are also physically blessed with hardy constitutions"... that has -always- been part of TES games (though admittedly, the mechanics depicting those differences have varied widely over the various games)
For another, we already have birthsigns in the game, sadly not a fixed "born under that star" system like in other TES games, but a "pick what you like from the right stone" system. (Which I think makes about as much sense for "birthsigns" as strange women lying in ponds distributing swords as a basis for a system of government...
)
So, it might be a bit much to ask to have them make a change that would require them to change their regions as well as their mechanics, in regard to all those birthsign stones... (though I totally would go for that too, make the birthsigns selectable passives and replace all those stones with shrines to some deadric or divine power instead where you can declare your character as follower and pray for a blessing... but that is a different discussion)
So, I am thinking...
...perhaps a better solution would be one that -does- keep to the lore about what this or that race is good at, but instead changes the way those racial differences are depicted in the game to sidestep the mentioned "pigeonholing" problem...
...
For starters, fiddling with the attribute-related passives so they don't have an percentage bonus on top of everything in the endgame, but instead more of an leg up at the start... perhaps in the form of pre-assigned attribute points, and a softcap ceiling that means the racial perks will just let people get there a bit faster instead of adding 10% or so to the final score? That would greatly lessen the "must have for endgame" impact (and also make hybrid builds more viable again as softcaps means the "put everything into your damage stat for the win" character building method suddenly is way less effective... and the "a bit of this and a bit of that" builds actually get within spitting distance of those overspecialized characters once more...)
And then -add- another set of passives, not racial ones, not changing the birthsigns already in the game, but ones for character background; what environment they grew up in, how thry spent their childhood, and what life they had before they started adventuring... passives that -would- be freely selectable, and thus -could- inherit the "percentage bonus on top" mechanic...
Like...- Birthplace might give a resistance bonus, or possibly some added damage where applicable... so someone who hailed from skyrim might have some cold resistance (though not as much as a born and bred nord - possibly reduce -all- the racial resistances to two-thirds of the current value and give one third to the upbringing passive... thus a nord of skyrim would have the current value from both, and a nord raised in black marsh still have 2/3 from their ancestors genes, while an argonian that grew up in skyrim would have 1/3 from adapting during their childhood...), those who made it to adulthood in black marsh might have some disease resistance, those growing up in the morrowind ashlands might have some fire resistance perhaps, and those from valenwood possibly some poison resistance... and so on... in regions where resistance might make no sense, there could be a damage bonus instead, like anyone growing up in magical sumerset might gain a tiny little bit of elemental damage bonus, or someone raised elsweyr might have some advantage in stealth or whatnot...
- Upbringing might give attribute boni, those who were raised in a scholar household amidst libraries and tutors get an advantage in magica from all that honing of their minds; those who were in a commoner household helping the family business might have an advantage in stamina from all the muscle-building hard work they did, and those who grew up with outcasts in the wilds gain some heatlh advantage from "roughing it" all the time... and there could also be hybrid options, like a noble household that gave equal training in fields of knowledge (aka magica bonus) and arms practice (aka stamina bonus), or some other options with a one-third/two-thirds split... (and here we could have the mentioned "percentage boni on top of everything", since people could freely select their background, yes?)
- And whatever job they might have had before the events of ESO started the adventuring career might give some extra bonus for related skill usage here or there - former blacksmiths might gain increased temper improvement chances, former curpurses improved pickpocket chances, former librarians could gain a chance to learn something from a motic/recipe/pattern scroll without consuming it, etc. This might also come with drawbacks - like the former blacksmith might have strong but forgework-callused hands that fumble small stuff like lockpicking more then nimble thieves, while the former thief might still be vaguely remembered by the city guard and thus gain more bounty if caught, or the former librarian might be bookish and socially inept, and thus get worse deals with every vendor... that sort of thing...
Anyhow, that's my thoughts on the matter.Edited by TheShadowScout on April 28, 2018 6:42PM2 - Birthplace might give a resistance bonus, or possibly some added damage where applicable... so someone who hailed from skyrim might have some cold resistance (though not as much as a born and bred nord - possibly reduce -all- the racial resistances to two-thirds of the current value and give one third to the upbringing passive... thus a nord of skyrim would have the current value from both, and a nord raised in black marsh still have 2/3 from their ancestors genes, while an argonian that grew up in skyrim would have 1/3 from adapting during their childhood...), those who made it to adulthood in black marsh might have some disease resistance, those growing up in the morrowind ashlands might have some fire resistance perhaps, and those from valenwood possibly some poison resistance... and so on... in regions where resistance might make no sense, there could be a damage bonus instead, like anyone growing up in magical sumerset might gain a tiny little bit of elemental damage bonus, or someone raised elsweyr might have some advantage in stealth or whatnot...
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Chufu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the ideas of the first thread.
As I played and play an orc for every class in the game and every role (no matter tank/heal/StamDD/MagDD), I would love a change that would make the orcs a bit better for the uncommon roles like Healer or MagDD.
Tested today again before PTS shut down the difference on MagDK of Orc and Dunmer and a quick-test gave me a difference of 1k DPS. Some of you would say that's not much, but at least it definetely IS a difference. And you have more Magicka as well.
I mean I love to play Stamina and my orcs fits these roles very well, but I don't see the point why other races should just be "better" than other ones. I still would love the fact to have racial passives just in a cosmetic way, but I don't believe that will ever change.
So more than 90% of Tamriels Population will still be Redguards, Argonians, Altmer and Dunmer.- @OrcTalk on Twitter
- ESO-Skillfactory.com[EN/DE/FR] Skillplanner/Skillplaner/Planificateur de compétences
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ssewallb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I always liked the idea of this kind of system.
It doesn't make sense from a lore or gameplay perspective to tie race into class performance.
It would be a good Crown Store incentive as well. There would be more demand for a sign change than a race change, as it won't affect the look of your character when that's undesirable.2 -
jssriot✭✭✭✭✭
✭They really need to move away from racial perks/passives. Aside from the gross, offensive cultural subtext of this BS--like the idea that "race" actually means anything, especially regarding talents and abilities--It's based on a decades-old way of approaching RPGs that is increasingly unpopular with the way gamers want to be able to play their RPGs in the twenty effing first century and seriously we just need to let it go and move on. i'm a relatively old fart as gamers go--I'm old enough to have played tabletop D&D in the 80s--and if I can tell that younger gamers are significantly less accepting of status quo of basing character abilities on race, it's a problem, whether or not the clueless "How is this a problem?" parrots want to admit it.
Birthsigns is a nice alternative, since in TES, it'd be lore-friendly and RPG-friendly and a lot of old TES players would immediately be open to it. it would also open up character creation to something that is actually very lore-friendly but not doable in systems that require you to choose a specific race based on abilities and skills: mixed race characters. They exist in lore, heck, Breton and Orcs themselves are mixed race. And a lot of players want to be able to play more diverse, mixed race or racially ambiguous characters without being penalized skill- or bonus-wise.
Player nowadays want to be far more creative with their toons than the old, rigid, D&D-style race system allows them to do. TES needs to move in a direction that allows players more creativity here, or risk losing their playerbase to another franchise that does. Evolve or die, baby.PC-NA since 2015. Tired and unimpressed.1 -
Aethereal'Golden✭✭✭I don't like Argonian Resourceful buff. 'If you want to perform well as a tank or think about pvp sustain advantages - take Argonian' and so on...
I feel like I'm forced to choose something I don't like.
But well, not only racial passives I dislike but also class restrictions.0 -
Vanthras79✭✭✭✭✭I agree with some of the ideas of the OP. Some races are forced into with stam or magicka. This kind of idea could allow for some variations. I would love to see Khajiit Mag Sorcs, and Breton Stam Blades. I think Racials are too much of an influence on race decision making for a class as it is.Norion Germain - Telvanni Wizard, Covenant Battle Mage, Mage's Guild Magister, Resident of Daggerfall Overlook, Lord of Tel Galen, Psijic Monk, Antiquarian, Breton Scholar, and Traveler.0 -
DoobZ69✭✭✭✭Hello ZOS + ESO Community,
for a while now ...
...
As a last question to you guys, did anyone experience race discrimination as well in ESO? Like beeing joked about or getting kicked from a group for beeing not the ideal race for DD or tanking or maybe saw it beeing done to someone? Please share your stories. I really hope 1 day race won't matter and be asthetics mostly.
If you not liking any of my suggestions and find some passives too weak or strong, feel free to give me some feedback as well. Afterall we as an community should also try to improve the game and give the developers some postive constructive feedback.
Greetings,
Marcel
I have a number of issues with your suggestions. There's too much skill salad if you have racials+birthsigns. How will they fit in the UI? What reason do you have for introducing them lore-wise? How do the Mundus stones fit into this "warrior"/"mage"/"tower" scenario if they're already in the game?? The requirement for a birthsign token for changing... not cool, not cool at all??
In other words: your suggestions make the design more complicated. They add an extra monetary cost on players who already tire of all the crown store costs hanging over their head. They ignore the current existence of Mundus Stones in the game, I really need that explained further. I didn't look at the actual figures you proposed because a whole redesign really requires thorough testing in-game, not taken at face value, but you're expanding from 3 racial passives to 2 racial passives + 3 birthsign passives, to a total of 5, a 40% increase, causing a balancing issue crisis.
Maybe the other posters are right. Play Altmer, Redguard or uninstall the game because the game was designed the way it was designed. There's no problem and you can pay $30 when the problem gets too unbearable1 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I would suggest we have more choices within racial passives compared to what we have now.
How come every single Nord have 6% damage mitigation? Why is every breton with same regeneration of magicka? It would be more interesting if we had branching passives within racial passives. This would make all races slightly better in all they can do atm, and still would not be groundbreaking. We would have more diversity and overall, more interesting choices. Lets take Nord as an example
Stalwart can have 2 ranks as they are now.
Add another 2 ranks of new passive that can be taken instead stalwart
It could give 3/6% more damage with ice based spells and 3% more magicka and stamina on rank 2
Nords that take this passive would have 3% less stamina and no bonus to health regeneration unlike nords who decided to use stalwart passive.
If you choose this passive your resist frost will be altered - no more 9% max health and 2079 cold resist.
Instead it would be 6% max health, 3% max magicka and 3600 cold resist
Rugged passive would be reworked to also give 5% stamina regeneration
If you choose to take alternative passive instead of this one, it would provide you with 5% magicka regeneration and your frost spells would last 1/2 seconds more. But no damage mitigation for you in that case.
These changes would be somewhat lore friendly, would make Nords interesting option for magicka Wardens and cryomancers of some sort.
Similar changes can be done to all other races. Wanna be stamina based Altmer? Why not! You would not be as good as Redguard but here are few interesting bonuses in your racial passives that can make you better than you would be now in that role. ETC.1 -
Allumis✭✭✭I really like the idea of ditching Racial passives and moving over to a Birth Sign system.
It gives you full creativity over how your character looks without putting yourself into the "not good enough for my group" bin. Of course some people will play with a specific birth sign due to lore but that's cool.
What it does is open up allowing you to pick a race and look you want without sacrificing end game viability.
As for creating a mix of racial and birth sign passives, this is a can of worms balance wise. It may be best to ditch racial passives entirely and only have birth signs which "borrow" from the tried, tested and somewhat "balanced" racial system. (less work required too!)0 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why do people want to make everything streamlined? Having slightly impactful racials are a good thing for a RPG. I don't want racials to be "cosmetic". The race is an essential part of the class I play and ofcourse roleplay. Leave them as they are, if you want to play cosmetic and irrelevant races, there are other MMOs which do that.1 -
Allumis✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »Why do people want to make everything streamlined? Having slightly impactful racials are a good thing for a RPG. I don't want racials to be "cosmetic". The race is an essential part of the class I play and ofcourse roleplay. Leave them as they are, if you want to play cosmetic and irrelevant races, there are other MMOs which do that.
The issue is when you have to play race A and look a very specific way which you might not be happy with just because if you don't you'll be passed over for any groups because you wont be min/maxing your potential DPS/Healing.
Its majorly off putting to think that you're going to have to play race A because otherwise it may hamper your chances of being invited to end game content.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lorewisw my bosmer is still missing it's taking or pet bonsus.
Otherwise there is some strength in disadvantage. It allows you take a different approach. I don't think this should change, but maybe adding something on top of existing system is not bad.0 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
"End game content" is a nice excuse. If the entire kill hinges on your missing 2k dps, then I would assume that there are bigger problems in your raid than your DPS.Facefister wrote: »Why do people want to make everything streamlined? Having slightly impactful racials are a good thing for a RPG. I don't want racials to be "cosmetic". The race is an essential part of the class I play and ofcourse roleplay. Leave them as they are, if you want to play cosmetic and irrelevant races, there are other MMOs which do that.
The issue is when you have to play race A and look a very specific way which you might not be happy with just because if you don't you'll be passed over for any groups because you wont be min/maxing your potential DPS/Healing.
Its majorly off putting to think that you're going to have to play race A because otherwise it may hamper your chances of being invited to end game content.2 -
Allumis✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »
"End game content" is a nice excuse. If the entire kill hinges on your missing 2k dps, then I would assume that there are bigger problems in your raid than your DPS.Facefister wrote: »Why do people want to make everything streamlined? Having slightly impactful racials are a good thing for a RPG. I don't want racials to be "cosmetic". The race is an essential part of the class I play and ofcourse roleplay. Leave them as they are, if you want to play cosmetic and irrelevant races, there are other MMOs which do that.
The issue is when you have to play race A and look a very specific way which you might not be happy with just because if you don't you'll be passed over for any groups because you wont be min/maxing your potential DPS/Healing.
Its majorly off putting to think that you're going to have to play race A because otherwise it may hamper your chances of being invited to end game content.
The issue lies with perceptions though, those running the end game content over and over to farm or obtain a specific item take things like this heavily into account. They wont want to take the player who potentially over several runs is going to have slowed them down.
Not everyone plays for fun, which is a shame. But what race you want to play shouldn't negativity effect your experience, at least with Birth Signs as an independent choice from race, you can always pick the race you want to play without sacrificing the min/max meta.
What I fail to understand is "what the issue" doing away with racials and only having a birth signs system which gives you full creative control. The only loss is in terms of lore as long as the birth signs offer everything the current racials do.0
