Updated my magsorc build. Whatcha all think

Irylia · May 2018

Why is everyone calling it a Malcolm build when sorcs have been running shackle lich since shackle was released and domi the patch after.
It’s just a universally used build for sorcs. Not someone who made a build video half a year after it had already been used.

To op - Spinners is alright but penetration leaves you lacking when vs any class that can give/use shields to the people you are fighting.

The extra pen was nerfed and you can easily accommodate cp into erosion to reach the pen spinners gives without losing much in cp due to how much we already have.

I’d suggest a raw damage set if you prefer that playstyle or a Sudo sustain/dmg set like shackle.

Nirn destro
Infused resto (beserk enchant)
Spell dmg glyphs
Inner light front bar
Surge/degen back or on overload
Undaunted 9 5/1/1
Atro/mage depending on sustain

Shooting star is better open world and comet for duels.

Next patch you could just be OL sorc seeing as how that will one shot with rune

Brutusmax1mus · May 2018

I use spinner/ lich, i love it. Little tough vs shields but they aren't unbreakable.

Subversus · May 2018

LeifErickson wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

ReverseVenom wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

So for me, I don’t like running damage sets on mag sorc. I aim for sustain and utility while being able to use damage glyphs on my jewelry(this is even stronger in Summerset than on live).

Obviously the Malcolm spec is phenomenal(5 Shackle 5 Lich 1 Domi Masters inferno).

Ive run both Malcolms and OP's. OP"s actually is more damage however I prefer Malcolms for the stamina sustain.

I just put both builds into the build editor and with the shackle/lich combo I actually lose 2k mag, 1k stam, and 1k health because i have to swap the long fin pasty for witchmothers. The magicka recovery and overall spell damage goes up but idk if the pen is actually more damaging than the 2k to the 2.5k

You should run tristat food with lich/shackle/domi, reason you run shackle over amberplasm is for the extra stats and tristat complements that. You don’t need witchmother’s drink, dark deal + lich + shackle is enough magicka sustain for open world.

I play my Malcom build with 2 damage glyphs and 1 stam glyph, tristat food. That allows me to get to 18.4k stam and 1k stam recovery, which is MUCH more valuable on mag sorc than whatever extra mag or stam regen you’d get.

Also drop mage mundus, it’s really bad. Either go for spell dmg or regen. I go regen. Mage mundus is reserved for high magicka setups like necro sorcs, which yours is not.

Mage mundus is really good. The difference between it and atro for me was 50 on tooltips but with mage you get bigger shields and more sustain and I have a similar pool to his.

You must have a high magicka pool to begin with in that case. Op doesn’t imo. Not to mention that you’re giving up much needed sustain. In any case, I’d go with atro over all the others for shackle/lich/domi.

I do use mage mundus on pts sorc though.

bardx86 · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

ReverseVenom wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

So for me, I don’t like running damage sets on mag sorc. I aim for sustain and utility while being able to use damage glyphs on my jewelry(this is even stronger in Summerset than on live).

Obviously the Malcolm spec is phenomenal(5 Shackle 5 Lich 1 Domi Masters inferno).

Ive run both Malcolms and OP's. OP"s actually is more damage however I prefer Malcolms for the stamina sustain.

I just put both builds into the build editor and with the shackle/lich combo I actually lose 2k mag, 1k stam, and 1k health because i have to swap the long fin pasty for witchmothers. The magicka recovery and overall spell damage goes up but idk if the pen is actually more damaging than the 2k to the 2.5k

You should run tristat food with lich/shackle/domi, reason you run shackle over amberplasm is for the extra stats and tristat complements that. You don’t need witchmother’s drink, dark deal + lich + shackle is enough magicka sustain for open world.

I play my Malcom build with 2 damage glyphs and 1 stam glyph, tristat food. That allows me to get to 18.4k stam and 1k stam recovery, which is MUCH more valuable on mag sorc than whatever extra mag or stam regen you’d get.

Also drop mage mundus, it’s really bad. Either go for spell dmg or regen. I go regen. Mage mundus is reserved for high magicka setups like necro sorcs, which yours is not.

This is pretty much what I run however I like the witch mothers over the trip-food and the Spell damage mundus. I kind of go back and forth on sharpens and nrim.

bardx86 · May 2018

Honestly tho all these ideas are pretty good. It really comes down to how you like to play. I try to 1vX so stamina is king imo.

ShadowMonarch · May 2018

ReverseVenom wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Looks like lich for recovery and spinner for damage,

Spinner is kinda a double edged sword cause the pen doesn't help you at all vs shields.

Yeah I took that into account with spinners, I liked the max mag bonus's and figured I could lack a bit in the errosion CP with the 5pc. What other dmg set would you recommend?

I prefer War Maiden over spinner.

The extra spell damage will help you vs shields and healthbars, wereas the pen from spinner will ONLY help you vs the health bars.

Lich isn't terrible, I like it for my magblade but shacklebreaker is a great replacer for it, extra max stats go a lot farther then you might think!

If you're running around in a group you can always throw on shooting star or Dawnbreaker and throw on Vicious Death! It is hilarious when you pop 1 squishy zergling with a ult combo and the 2 decent players next to him blow up for it.

Waffennacht · May 2018

Irylia wrote: »

Why is everyone calling it a Malcolm build when sorcs have been running shackle lich since shackle was released and domi the patch after.
It’s just a universally used build for sorcs. Not someone who made a build video half a year after it had already been used.

To op - Spinners is alright but penetration leaves you lacking when vs any class that can give/use shields to the people you are fighting.

The extra pen was nerfed and you can easily accommodate cp into erosion to reach the pen spinners gives without losing much in cp due to how much we already have.

I’d suggest a raw damage set if you prefer that playstyle or a Sudo sustain/dmg set like shackle.

Nirn destro
Infused resto (beserk enchant)
Spell dmg glyphs
Inner light front bar
Surge/degen back or on overload
Undaunted 9 5/1/1
Atro/mage depending on sustain

Shooting star is better open world and comet for duels.

Next patch you could just be OL sorc seeing as how that will one shot with rune

They don't care about who's first, just whom streams

The_Brosteen · May 2018

This setup works. I literally use the exact same thing. Have had success with it.

Septimus_Magna · May 2018

Next patch you can run 5pc front bar, 5pc back bar, 3pc willpower jewelry and 1pc domihaus.

Lich would be good on the back bar but Im not sure what set would work best on the front bar. Shackle probably works best if its always active and Spinner doesnt help against shields.

ToRelax · May 2018

.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Next patch you can run 5pc front bar, 5pc back bar, 3pc willpower jewelry and 1pc domihaus.

Lich would be good on the back bar but Im not sure what set would work best on the front bar. Shackle probably works best if its always active and Spinner doesnt help against shields.

With 1 domi 3 willpower you can just use willpower front bar and have an always active 5 pc set instead.

Septimus_Magna · May 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Next patch you can run 5pc front bar, 5pc back bar, 3pc willpower jewelry and 1pc domihaus.

Lich would be good on the back bar but Im not sure what set would work best on the front bar. Shackle probably works best if its always active and Spinner doesnt help against shields.

With 1 domi 3 willpower you can just use willpower front bar and have an always active 5 pc set instead.

That could actually be pretty good, it better to lose the willpower 2+3pc bonus than the shackle 4+5pc bonus.

Asardes · May 2018

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

I prefer War Maiden over spinner.

The extra spell damage will help you vs shields and healthbars, wereas the pen from spinner will ONLY help you vs the health bars.

The extra spell damage applies only to your magic damage effects, in case of sorcerer that would be things like Crystal Fragments, Suppression Field, Rune Cage, Daedric Minefied (no one runs the last 3 for damage), and it will not affect your healing in any way. Surge heals are a fixed amount, and your other heals scale off you maximum magicka and raw spell damage. In the latter Spinner and War maiden are equal, with 129 spell damage bonus each, but Spinner has one 1096 maximum magicka instead of 833 spell critical. So even when considering raw stats from 2-4p bonuses, Spinner's is at least equal to War Maiden on sorcerer, if not better, since the 2nd maximum magicka bonus adds to your shields, while the critical from War Maiden is mostly negated by other players wearing impenetrable or shielding themselves.
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/War+Maiden+Set
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Class+Skills

Subversus · May 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Why is everyone calling it a Malcolm build when sorcs have been running shackle lich since shackle was released and domi the patch after.
It’s just a universally used build for sorcs. Not someone who made a build video half a year after it had already been used.

To op - Spinners is alright but penetration leaves you lacking when vs any class that can give/use shields to the people you are fighting.

The extra pen was nerfed and you can easily accommodate cp into erosion to reach the pen spinners gives without losing much in cp due to how much we already have.

I’d suggest a raw damage set if you prefer that playstyle or a Sudo sustain/dmg set like shackle.

Nirn destro
Infused resto (beserk enchant)
Spell dmg glyphs
Inner light front bar
Surge/degen back or on overload
Undaunted 9 5/1/1
Atro/mage depending on sustain

Shooting star is better open world and comet for duels.

Next patch you could just be OL sorc seeing as how that will one shot with rune

They don't care about who's first, just whom streams

What would we call it then? Lich/shackle/domi/master staff? Malcolm is much shorter and easier to type. He’s the one that brought the build to the public eyes. Who’s first that made the build is irrelevant, it could just as well be a guy named bob.

Lord-Otto · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Why is everyone calling it a Malcolm build when sorcs have been running shackle lich since shackle was released and domi the patch after.
It’s just a universally used build for sorcs. Not someone who made a build video half a year after it had already been used.

To op - Spinners is alright but penetration leaves you lacking when vs any class that can give/use shields to the people you are fighting.

The extra pen was nerfed and you can easily accommodate cp into erosion to reach the pen spinners gives without losing much in cp due to how much we already have.

I’d suggest a raw damage set if you prefer that playstyle or a Sudo sustain/dmg set like shackle.

Nirn destro
Infused resto (beserk enchant)
Spell dmg glyphs
Inner light front bar
Surge/degen back or on overload
Undaunted 9 5/1/1
Atro/mage depending on sustain

Shooting star is better open world and comet for duels.

Next patch you could just be OL sorc seeing as how that will one shot with rune

They don't care about who's first, just whom streams

What would we call it then? Lich/shackle/domi/master staff? Malcolm is much shorter and easier to type. He’s the one that brought the build to the public eyes. Who’s first that made the build is irrelevant, it could just as well be a guy named bob.

I wouldn't credit a single person.
Thinking back, I saw a lot of build videos, and I met many builds in Cyro. I tested Wizard's against Lich extensively during that time.
And the further time progressed, the more meta my encounters in Cyro became. Until now, where the above setup is regarded the overall best.
I think people just learned, tested, and came to the same conclusions over time. Which is unsurprising, given how pidgeonholed sorcs are at the moment.

ShadowMonarch · May 2018

Asardes wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

I prefer War Maiden over spinner.

The extra spell damage will help you vs shields and healthbars, wereas the pen from spinner will ONLY help you vs the health bars.

The extra spell damage applies only to your magic damage effects, in case of sorcerer that would be things like Crystal Fragments, Suppression Field, Rune Cage, Daedric Minefied (no one runs the last 3 for damage), and it will not affect your healing in any way. Surge heals are a fixed amount, and your other heals scale off you maximum magicka and raw spell damage. In the latter Spinner and War maiden are equal, with 129 spell damage bonus each, but Spinner has one 1096 maximum magicka instead of 833 spell critical. So even when considering raw stats from 2-4p bonuses, Spinner's is at least equal to War Maiden on sorcerer, if not better, since the 2nd maximum magicka bonus adds to your shields, while the critical from War Maiden is mostly negated by other players wearing impenetrable or shielding themselves.
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/War+Maiden+Set
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Class+Skills

Except spinner is going to be 100% negated by all shields.

Asardes · May 2018

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

I prefer War Maiden over spinner.

The extra spell damage will help you vs shields and healthbars, wereas the pen from spinner will ONLY help you vs the health bars.

The extra spell damage applies only to your magic damage effects, in case of sorcerer that would be things like Crystal Fragments, Suppression Field, Rune Cage, Daedric Minefied (no one runs the last 3 for damage), and it will not affect your healing in any way. Surge heals are a fixed amount, and your other heals scale off you maximum magicka and raw spell damage. In the latter Spinner and War maiden are equal, with 129 spell damage bonus each, but Spinner has one 1096 maximum magicka instead of 833 spell critical. So even when considering raw stats from 2-4p bonuses, Spinner's is at least equal to War Maiden on sorcerer, if not better, since the 2nd maximum magicka bonus adds to your shields, while the critical from War Maiden is mostly negated by other players wearing impenetrable or shielding themselves.
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/War+Maiden+Set
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Class+Skills

Except spinner is going to be 100% negated by all shields.

In my experience shields don't hold up that well against attacks. They are 7-8K in PvP, so most of the damage from hard hitting skills goes through. And there's also the stamina players who don't have them. Concentration+Spinner's+a few CP in spell erosion get you to about 10K penetration, which the minimum that people have. So I reckon is a safe bet.

Biro123 · May 2018

If looking at a setup that involves a set bonus that is only active on the front-bar (and in the next patch, its both the 4 and 5 piece bonus) - I honestly can't think of a set better suited to it than spinners for magsorc.

I mean on back bar, you'd lose spelldmg and penetraton - neither of which you need when casting buffs/shields/streak..
On the front bar - both are definitely wanted. Yeah, sometimes you're facing shields, and the spinners bonus doesn't helm so much - but when that shield does come down, you have a short window to burst - and it DOES help then.

Those 2 and 3 piece max mag bonuses - well, they'll be always up (and very desirable) - which is exactly what you'd want too.. Its almost as if it's designed for this.

ReverseVenom · May 2018

I like how this thread started out with "what the *** are you doing this is terrible" to actual calculations between sets and how its better for bar switching ect.

Subversus · May 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Why is everyone calling it a Malcolm build when sorcs have been running shackle lich since shackle was released and domi the patch after.
It’s just a universally used build for sorcs. Not someone who made a build video half a year after it had already been used.

To op - Spinners is alright but penetration leaves you lacking when vs any class that can give/use shields to the people you are fighting.

The extra pen was nerfed and you can easily accommodate cp into erosion to reach the pen spinners gives without losing much in cp due to how much we already have.

I’d suggest a raw damage set if you prefer that playstyle or a Sudo sustain/dmg set like shackle.

Nirn destro
Infused resto (beserk enchant)
Spell dmg glyphs
Inner light front bar
Surge/degen back or on overload
Undaunted 9 5/1/1
Atro/mage depending on sustain

Shooting star is better open world and comet for duels.

Next patch you could just be OL sorc seeing as how that will one shot with rune

They don't care about who's first, just whom streams

What would we call it then? Lich/shackle/domi/master staff? Malcolm is much shorter and easier to type. He’s the one that brought the build to the public eyes. Who’s first that made the build is irrelevant, it could just as well be a guy named bob.

I wouldn't credit a single person.
Thinking back, I saw a lot of build videos, and I met many builds in Cyro. I tested Wizard's against Lich extensively during that time.
And the further time progressed, the more meta my encounters in Cyro became. Until now, where the above setup is regarded the overall best.
I think people just learned, tested, and came to the same conclusions over time. Which is unsurprising, given how pidgeonholed sorcs are at the moment.

Sure, but did any of those people actually make a YouTube video and release it to the public? I seem to recall @derra mentioning shackle/lich/master staff long before the frags nerf, but nobody actually made a video of it.

Same works with patents irl. You can fiddle all you want with a thing in your home, but until someone actually releases it to the public it will have no name except for what you call it.

I don’t call my juli/riposte/skoria magblade build the Subversus build, even though I created and optimized it myself to suit my playstyle.

Biro123 · May 2018

ReverseVenom wrote: »

I like how this thread started out with "what the *** are you doing this is terrible" to actual calculations between sets and how its better for bar switching ect.

Well, we need someone to argue with now that the nerf-sorc threads have dried up!

ToRelax · May 2018

I mostly find it funny how you say it was "released to the public" as if it was a big secret before someone made a build video. Meanwhile it's simply a combination of the most efficient stat sets with a master staff.

Subversus · May 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

I mostly find it funny how you say it was "released to the public" as if it was a big secret before someone made a build video. Meanwhile it's simply a combination of the most efficient stat sets with a master staff.

It was released to the public as in it was made widely available, as opposed to only the sorcs that were actually theorycrafting their own builds to begin with.

I don’t get why you all are salty about calling it the Malcolm build. Want to call it the ToRelax build? Sure thing buddy lol.

ToRelax · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I mostly find it funny how you say it was "released to the public" as if it was a big secret before someone made a build video. Meanwhile it's simply a combination of the most efficient stat sets with a master staff.

It was released to the public as in it was made widely available, as opposed to only the sorcs that were actually theorycrafting their own builds to begin with.

I don’t get why you all are salty about calling it the Malcolm build. Want to call it the ToRelax build? Sure thing buddy lol.

Noooo, it's cute. Just the fact this is happening with a simple stat stacking setup as opposed to some proc set, damage type set or such.

Derra · May 2018

Uh oh. Ok.

I´m gonna make a list with sorc builds that i´ll copyright the name of for summerset.

Subversus · May 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I mostly find it funny how you say it was "released to the public" as if it was a big secret before someone made a build video. Meanwhile it's simply a combination of the most efficient stat sets with a master staff.

It was released to the public as in it was made widely available, as opposed to only the sorcs that were actually theorycrafting their own builds to begin with.

I don’t get why you all are salty about calling it the Malcolm build. Want to call it the ToRelax build? Sure thing buddy lol.

Noooo, it's cute. Just the fact this is happening with a simple stat stacking setup as opposed to some proc set, damage type set or such.

If I were determined I could find quite a few posts from mag forumsorc mains saying the build is bad before a player with actual legend status released the video confirming that it’s good.

Subversus · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Uh oh. Ok.

I´m gonna make a list with sorc builds that i´ll copyright the name of for summerset.

Nobody stops you hahaha.

Irylia · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I mostly find it funny how you say it was "released to the public" as if it was a big secret before someone made a build video. Meanwhile it's simply a combination of the most efficient stat sets with a master staff.

It was released to the public as in it was made widely available, as opposed to only the sorcs that were actually theorycrafting their own builds to begin with.

I don’t get why you all are salty about calling it the Malcolm build. Want to call it the ToRelax build? Sure thing buddy lol.

Noooo, it's cute. Just the fact this is happening with a simple stat stacking setup as opposed to some proc set, damage type set or such.

If I were determined I could find quite a few posts from mag forumsorc mains saying the build is bad before a player with actual legend status released the video confirming that it’s good.

If any sorcs were saying it was bad they weren’t good.

MalcolM24 · May 2018

To clear things up:
The only thing I'd paste my name on is the amber willpower pirate from soth - one tamriel - homestead.
And the playstyle, with combining well fitted & dark conversion & rolls. Those 2 are the combinations I've never seen or heard from before I started doing it in soth.

Shackle lich is obvious, pretty sure about 50 people thought about using this 'first' in Morrowind.

Not many people care though, they just want a sorc build that's good.

To OP, it's not terrible, but just outdated. Shackle lich will do better for example. Even if you don't run conversion.

ReverseVenom · May 2018

MalcolM24 wrote: »

To clear things up:
The only thing I'd paste my name on is the amber willpower pirate from soth - one tamriel - homestead.
And the playstyle, with combining well fitted & dark conversion & rolls. Those 2 are the combinations I've never seen or heard from before I started doing it in soth.

Shackle lich is obvious, pretty sure about 50 people thought about using this 'first' in Morrowind.

Not many people care though, they just want a sorc build that's good.

To OP, it's not terrible, but just outdated. Shackle lich will do better for example. Even if you don't run conversion.

I'll grind some mats and make the switch probably when summerset drops. I'm happy to hear it's good without dark conversion cause tbh I hate that skill. I understand its usefulness and how pivitol it can be in a fight but the animation/bar lock just completely turn me off

Minalan · May 2018

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

I prefer War Maiden over spinner.

The extra spell damage will help you vs shields and healthbars, wereas the pen from spinner will ONLY help you vs the health bars.

The extra spell damage applies only to your magic damage effects, in case of sorcerer that would be things like Crystal Fragments, Suppression Field, Rune Cage, Daedric Minefied (no one runs the last 3 for damage), and it will not affect your healing in any way. Surge heals are a fixed amount, and your other heals scale off you maximum magicka and raw spell damage. In the latter Spinner and War maiden are equal, with 129 spell damage bonus each, but Spinner has one 1096 maximum magicka instead of 833 spell critical. So even when considering raw stats from 2-4p bonuses, Spinner's is at least equal to War Maiden on sorcerer, if not better, since the 2nd maximum magicka bonus adds to your shields, while the critical from War Maiden is mostly negated by other players wearing impenetrable or shielding themselves.
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/War+Maiden+Set
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Class+Skills

Except spinner is going to be 100% negated by all shields.

Spinner got nerfed, the armor pen is only 3K or so now. In order to adequately judge it, how much extra damage will that honestly give you against someone in heavy armor (30K)? Medium?

Spinner isn’t terrible, I just think some of the resource sets out are a little better. Armor pen or Necro Max Magicka? Armor pen or 2K Magicka and 2K stamina?