Destruction Staff Passive Ancient Knowledge Rework

Jsmalls · April 2018

@ZOS_Wrobel
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_GinaBruno

Loved the implementation of this passive when it was added, but I feel this passive is extremely unfair compared to the other weapon skill line passives.

Dual wield sees a 5% damage increase by just having weapons equipped.
Two-handed sees a 5% damage increase by having the weapon equipped.
One-hand and shield sees reduced cost of blocking by 36%, weapon damage by 5%, block mitigation by 20%, and projectile blocking mitigation by just having it equipped.
Bow sees increased weapon critical by ~8%, and major expedition on Dodge roll with just the bow equipped.
Restoration staff sees increased healing, increased heavy attack resource gain, and magicka return when blocking with just the restoration staff equipped.

Then destruction staff forces you to slot an ability to gain it's passive damage increase, and it's penetrating magic passive only applies to destruction staff spells (don't care as much about this passive).

Why is destruction staff pigeonholed into using an ability when ALL other weapon skill lines do not require the same. I shouldn't feel obligated into slotting a destruction staff ability just to get the bonus from the passive...

Just seeking clarification or justification as to why this is the only skill line setup this way.

Thanks for your consideration.

Tasear · April 2018

It's close but you do gain more restos with resto staff then lighting. Restos staves also have faster heavy attacks.

On point I believe they fixed it sometime ago resto abilities only get effects by the passives.

-_- this one watches all things related to healing.

usmcjdking · April 2018

To be fair I cannot even fathom a build using any of the aforementioned weapons lines (except DW magicka) that wouldn't use at least one skill from the associated weapon.

Minalan · April 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

To be fair I cannot even fathom a build using any of the aforementioned weapons lines (except DW magicka) that wouldn't use at least one skill from the associated weapon.

You’ve got it pretty much. DW Sorcs want to adapt their builds to using staves now that the empower nerf pretty much broke them completely.

With a staff and no pulse/reach, they can get the same kind of burst weaving heavy attacks with curse, wrath, and frags, making up for the 20% empower damage loss on degeneration (ie landing a 9-10K fire heavy is nice). They also get to use the same bar setup as before.

They’d also get the heavy attack regeneration, and ultimate generation that they didn’t have before.

So.. they want one passive changed. I agree, it’d be nice to get that playstyle back. I’m tired of watching every Sorc in the world spam reach or force pulse.

Edit: @Jsmalls I did it by slotting the fire Destro ultimate. It counts, but it sucks to be stuck with one ultimate you don’t really like. It’s no DBoS...

Biro123 · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

To be fair I cannot even fathom a build using any of the aforementioned weapons lines (except DW magicka) that wouldn't use at least one skill from the associated weapon.

You’ve got it pretty much. DW Sorcs want to adapt their builds to using staves now that the empower nerf pretty much broke them completely.

With a staff and no pulse/reach, they can get the same kind of burst weaving heavy attacks with curse, wrath, and frags, making up for the 20% empower damage loss on degeneration (ie landing a 9-10K fire heavy is nice). They also get to use the same bar setup as before.

They’d also get the heavy attack regeneration, and ultimate generation that they didn’t have before.

So.. they want one passive changed. I agree, it’d be nice to get that playstyle back. I’m tired of watching every Sorc in the world spam reach or force pulse.

Edit: @Jsmalls I did it by slotting the fire Destro ultimate. It counts, but it sucks to be stuck with one ultimate you don’t really like. It’s no DBoS...

I must admit, it does bug me, and is probably the main thing putting me off running my current build with staff. It already requires some mean bar-swapping gymnastics, with the front bar already filled with fury, frags, hardened, pet, inner light, meteor... Back bar already has (offensively)curse, runecage. Only option for a runecage/meteor setup would be ele drain, but it would mean dropping inner light to make it fit.... Not really an option on a max magicka build. Only other choice could potentially be to drop the pet and use a monster set like shadowrend..
Either means a drop in stats on top of the spelldamage loss from giving up dw.

Maura_Neysa · April 2018

I dont like it either, my question though, is how exactly does the Element type effect everything. Would it know which passive to give without having a Destro skill? Kind of crap if the encoding works like that, and seems like an easy fix, but still....

Jsmalls · April 2018

@usmcjdking
Stamina night blades have enough in their skills kit to not slot a dw ability despite using dual wield and getting the bonus.
As a magicka Sorc I have S&B on my back bar (a lot of stamina specs do as well) without slotting a weapon skill ability.
While I'll agree Two handed and bow will usually result in slotting of abilities, it can also be said that it's because they have decent abilities to slot (PvP wise)

Destro staff abilities have never really appealed to me PvP wise. Force pulse has mediocre damage, and you need all 3 hits to crit for it to even create pressure (which never happens), flame reach is held up by a master staff (which I refuse to slot if any other staff will give me 2 set bonuses now, hence special weapons need a rework), ele drain is not open world or 1vX friendly, wall of elements has no real place in PvP especially for a mobile class, and I don't even have to address impulse lol. Destro ultimate while I have tested slotting feels like a waste of an Ultimate, competent players know how to counter it. I'd much rather have Overload for utility or dawnbreaker for burst potential.

@Minalan

Slotting Destro ultimate feels so crippling! I lose dark conversion, boundless, and I very much wanted to put imbue weapons or acceleration on the OL bar coming next patch. I'm actually not a dual wield Sorcerer but I suppose I play very similarly to one, just always liked the added pressure of medium weaving. It's Rune Cage changes that brings up this dilemma. Giving it guaranteed timed damage incorporates it into a Sorcerers burst that much more, with the added benefit of increasing the chances of landing that frag (I have Rune Cage hitting for 4k crits on friends without the added stats from this 2 piece staff change, which is doable).

Chelo · April 2018

100% agreed, I’ve been stuck with the Destro ultimate in my build for months now...

Jsmalls · May 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Bumping this because I think this should definitely be considered.
Destruction staff is the only damage oriented weapon line that forces it's user into slotting an ability for the damage oriented passive. Any chance the idea of removing the limitations on this passive could be reconsidered and forwarded to the correct department!

Please and thank you Gina!

Biro123 · May 2018

pretty please!

Locriana · June 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

To be fair I cannot even fathom a build using any of the aforementioned weapons lines (except DW magicka) that wouldn't use at least one skill from the associated weapon.

Magblade with meteor

Runefang · July 2018

Plenty of classes wouldn't run a destro skill on the front bar any more thanks to the Psijic spammable.

LeHarrt91 · July 2018

I agree and i think it will help the Magicka Warden a lot as they do not use the destro spammable. The only skill they use on front bar is Destructive Touch in pvp as they removed the only non ultimate stun the warden has.

Jsmalls · July 2018

@ZOS_Wrobel
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_GinaBruno

So now this passive wording has been changed...

It now states "With a destruction staff equipped" instead of "With a destruction ability slotted".

Assuming this wording was changed intentionally...

The extra damage % still requires an ability slotted for the tooltip of abilities to be effected.
Disclaimer: I have not checked to see if it's a tooltip/UI bug.

If this is the case is this now considered a bug? I'm going to submit a ticket when I get home after I confirm whether it's affects actual damage or if it's just a UI error.

But for anyone with interest in this... They did change the wording to match the other weapon skill line passives, so maybe there is hope

Maura_Neysa · July 2018

Jsmalls wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_GinaBruno

So now this passive wording has been changed...

It now states "With a destruction staff equipped" instead of "With a destruction ability slotted".

Assuming this wording was changed intentionally...

The extra damage % still requires an ability slotted for the tooltip of abilities to be effected.
Disclaimer: I have not checked to see if it's a tooltip/UI bug.

If this is the case is this now considered a bug? I'm going to submit a ticket when I get home after I confirm whether it's affects actual damage or if it's just a UI error.

But for anyone with interest in this... They did change the wording to match the other weapon skill line passives, so maybe there is hope

@Jsmalls Read the last line. It says the exact same thing it has since I started 18 months ago