Make radiant apex mounts buyable (not for PAWS)

ArvenAldmeri · April 2018

Please, for the love of Mara, make these mount buyable in some other way than gambling. Give us who are willing to give more than 15-20k crowns for it actually chance to buy it 100%. There is many people who would like to have it and are willing to pay more money for it than any other mount, but wont gamble for it just for the simple reason of it not being 100% chance even if they spend 1000s of euros for it. The shadow rider senche is exactly the kind of stuff I would like to give my money for in order to support the game for cool stuff in return. Just let people actually buy it if they want to give the money for it. Radiant apex mount is the worst you could ever put into crown crates.

How much would you guys be willing to pay for your choice of radiant apex mount if it was actually sold in crown store with 100% chance?

EDIT: Forgot to mention. This is post for people who actually BUY crown crates regulary not those who hate them and want the whole idea gone.

Turelus · April 2018

I wouldn't pay much more than 5,500 Crowns.

That's already $39.99 so even then the mount would have to be very good to pick up at a cost higher than a DLC/Expansion.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

0 crowns. Its just pixels and provides no useful benefit over other mounts. Also radiant mounts should stay exclusive to crown crates and its highly unlikely that will ever change. It is a big draw of crown crates. Even if you make it buyable with gems you will likely have to spend a few hundred dollars or more to get enough gems to own one.

VaranisArano · April 2018

If they did that, people who want those radiant apex mounts bad enough to gamble would spend less money on crown crates, which is the entire point of the radiant apex mount only being available for RNG.

If they made them buyable, everyone would whine about them being completely overpriced.

Its a feature, not a bug.

GaunterODim · April 2018

Agreed. You shouldnt have to rely on a 0.1% chance if you really want to have one of these. Even if theyre 800 crown gems or so (which definetely is too much for just a mount) they shouldnt be obtainable without a % chance at some point like the regular mounts at 400 gems as a backup if youre unlucky or didnt get the one you wanted.

Cold Flame Atronach Wolf 15 / 13171 crates (0.11%)
Night Frost Atronach Steed 12 / 13171 crates (0.09%)
Shadow Atronach Senche Mount 5 / 13171 crates (0.04%)

Dragonfire Wolf 1 / 8293 crates (0.01%)
Galvanic Storm Steed 7 / 8293 crates (0.08%)
Shadow-Rider Senche 0 / 8293 crates (0.00%)

Edit: some data from the crown crate logger from the last two seasons

SorataArisugawa · April 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

If they did that, people who want those radiant apex mounts bad enough to gamble would spend less money on crown crates, which is the entire point of the radiant apex mount only being available for RNG.

If they made them buyable, everyone would whine about them being completely overpriced.

Its a feature, not a bug.

It is scam, neither a feature or a bug!

VaranisArano · April 2018

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If they did that, people who want those radiant apex mounts bad enough to gamble would spend less money on crown crates, which is the entire point of the radiant apex mount only being available for RNG.

If they made them buyable, everyone would whine about them being completely overpriced.

Its a feature, not a bug.

It is scam, neither a feature or a bug!

Crown crates are a gamble. Locking rewards solely behind gambling are a feature of that profit-generating system.

What makes it potentially a scam is that ZOS refuses to release the odds, making the gambling odds opaque and potentially able to be altered at ZOS' discretion.

Shinshadow · April 2018

I love getting different mounts, since I also like to RP in addition to being a collector, but I won't buy crown crates for them. I love actually buying the cool looking mounts with crowns though.

redspecter23 · April 2018

They added these ultra rare mounts on purpose to lure in the hyper whales. Allowing players to buy them for gems undermines that purpose. I don't agree with it at all and feel it's taking advantage of players but it is doing what it was implemented for. If these were purchasable with gems, they would just add another tier on top of it that is more rare and again, not purchasable.

SorataArisugawa · April 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If they did that, people who want those radiant apex mounts bad enough to gamble would spend less money on crown crates, which is the entire point of the radiant apex mount only being available for RNG.

If they made them buyable, everyone would whine about them being completely overpriced.

Its a feature, not a bug.

It is scam, neither a feature or a bug!

Crown crates are a gamble. Locking rewards solely behind gambling are a feature of that profit-generating system.

What makes it potentially a scam is that ZOS refuses to release the odds, making the gambling odds opaque and potentially able to be altered at ZOS' discretion.

As long as you can't get it a other way, it will always be a scam. They using psychological tricks to make people buy this "gamble". As long as they don't acknowledge you as a reasonable counterpart in this "deal", you are scammed not matter what.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

GaunterODim wrote: »

Agreed. You shouldnt have to rely on a 0.1% chance if you really want to have one of these. Even if theyre 800 crown gems or so (which definetely is too much for just a mount) they shouldnt be obtainable without a % chance at some point like the regular mounts at 400 gems as a backup if youre unlucky or didnt get the one you wanted.

Cold Flame Atronach Wolf 15 / 13171 crates (0.11%)
Night Frost Atronach Steed 12 / 13171 crates (0.09%)
Shadow Atronach Senche Mount 5 / 13171 crates (0.04%)

Dragonfire Wolf 1 / 8293 crates (0.01%)
Galvanic Storm Steed 7 / 8293 crates (0.08%)
Shadow-Rider Senche 0 / 8293 crates (0.00%)

Edit: some data from the crown crate logger from the last two seasons

Think of radiant apex mounts like the jackpot on a lottery. The chance to win the jackpot is why people buy tickets(crates) not to win $20. Same thing. You want to hit the big one, be prepared to take out a second mortgage on your house.

JWKe · April 2018

No. I hope it forever gets locked behind RnG.

VaranisArano · April 2018

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If they did that, people who want those radiant apex mounts bad enough to gamble would spend less money on crown crates, which is the entire point of the radiant apex mount only being available for RNG.

If they made them buyable, everyone would whine about them being completely overpriced.

Its a feature, not a bug.

It is scam, neither a feature or a bug!

Crown crates are a gamble. Locking rewards solely behind gambling are a feature of that profit-generating system.

What makes it potentially a scam is that ZOS refuses to release the odds, making the gambling odds opaque and potentially able to be altered at ZOS' discretion.

As long as you can't get it a other way, it will always be a scam. They using psychological tricks to make people buy this "gamble". As long as they don't acknowledge you as a reasonable counterpart in this "deal", you are scammed not matter what.

Its a lottery jackpot. Unless the house is messing with the published odds, those aren't actually scams. But, I think I'm using "scam" in the technical sense of "ZOS could be messing with the odds of the lottery" and you are using it in the sense of "all gambling is a scam compared to just buying the item". So we are talking right past each other.

SorataArisugawa · April 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If they did that, people who want those radiant apex mounts bad enough to gamble would spend less money on crown crates, which is the entire point of the radiant apex mount only being available for RNG.

If they made them buyable, everyone would whine about them being completely overpriced.

Its a feature, not a bug.

It is scam, neither a feature or a bug!

Crown crates are a gamble. Locking rewards solely behind gambling are a feature of that profit-generating system.

What makes it potentially a scam is that ZOS refuses to release the odds, making the gambling odds opaque and potentially able to be altered at ZOS' discretion.

As long as you can't get it a other way, it will always be a scam. They using psychological tricks to make people buy this "gamble". As long as they don't acknowledge you as a reasonable counterpart in this "deal", you are scammed not matter what.

Its a lottery jackpot. Unless the house is messing with the published odds, those aren't actually scams. But, I think I'm using "scam" in the technical sense of "ZOS could be messing with the odds of the lottery" and you are using it in the sense of "all gambling is a scam compared to just buying the item". So we are talking right past each other.

You are right. We are talking right past each other here. For me it is scam because your and my point. For you it is just scam because it is possible to change the odds. That's okay, no offense:) Have a nice day!

Anotherone773 · April 2018

I got the storm steed on my 21st crate. It could of easily been my 80th, 800th, or 8000th crate though i only opened 33 crates in total. I would trade it for 10 full books worth of chapters ( 140 chapters) of my choosing all of which are available on guild traders. One could easily acquire my storm steed for the price of a notable home, if it was allowed in game.

Mounts arent that important to me. I dont care what i ride as long as it doesnt make it annoying to ride by bouncing me all over the place(such as that nix-ox spider thing). I was just wanting enough gems to buy motifs, which i didnt do because i knew this event was coming and now i own a bunch of partials of motifs i had none of. So id rather have missing chapters than the mount as they are far more useful than a blue horse with animations to me.

Dragonnord · April 2018

Please don't! They are one of the few exclusive stuff this game has left. So, no, please!

Turelus · April 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

Please don't! They are one of the few exclusive stuff this game has left. So, no, please!

They can be exclusive to everyone who buys them for extreme money. It's the same as it works now just there is an upper limit.

VerboseQuips · April 2018

I've said it already in other threads, but I'd be in favor of temporary gem sales for the apex mounts. Once a month, one of the three apex mounts would be accessible for gems. This would at least allow to *buy* them.

My enjoyment of the game has never fully recovered from them implementing a Hard-RNG-Paywall after two seasons.

lazerlaz · April 2018

One guy I know spent over $500 and and another over $800 and one of them got the rare wolf which doesn't even look that special lol. Bless their hearts. Especially the one that spent 800.

So as long as ZoS sees people willing to throw money at crowns like that I don't think they'll ever make it affordable.

Dragath · April 2018

mentioned it in other threads.
i want them to be buyable with gems or crowns.
how about making them drop if you have every other item that is in the crown crates?

Mystrius_Archaion · May 2018

GaunterODim wrote: »

Agreed. You shouldnt have to rely on a 0.1% chance if you really want to have one of these. Even if theyre 800 crown gems or so (which definetely is too much for just a mount) they shouldnt be obtainable without a % chance at some point like the regular mounts at 400 gems as a backup if youre unlucky or didnt get the one you wanted.

Cold Flame Atronach Wolf 15 / 13171 crates (0.11%)
Night Frost Atronach Steed 12 / 13171 crates (0.09%)
Shadow Atronach Senche Mount 5 / 13171 crates (0.04%)

Dragonfire Wolf 1 / 8293 crates (0.01%)
Galvanic Storm Steed 7 / 8293 crates (0.08%)
Shadow-Rider Senche 0 / 8293 crates (0.00%)

Edit: some data from the crown crate logger from the last two seasons

Rather telling that the same people likely used the logger and purchased less and less as the seasons go on.
The love-affair with crates must be ending.

Stewart1874 · May 2018

You're trying to make a poor system which is not designed for the player friendliness player friendly. The crown crates and concept of radiant apex mounts is designed with one intention in mind - to take money out of your pocket, and as much as possible too!

I would say that on balance, being able to directly buy crown gems (perhaps a conversion rate via crowns) to allow folk who do not want to participate in gambling but do want the content a direct line to the content might be a better idea but that could push the price of crown gem items up even more which would be frustrating.

Maybe offering radiant Apex mounts for 750 gems or 1000 would be a fairer way of managing it? 400 is the price for the seasonal apex mounts so obviously you would need to factor in the rarity but certainly having them purchasable would be much more palatable.

KivakWolf · May 2018

There's a sort of "set" cost for Apex Mounts the way it is... if you get about 45 crates you should (on average) get enough shards to buy a single Apex mount even if you don't pull it randomly (which is always a chance). As you open more crates, you'll get the "duplicate" value of the ones you already have. So it's actually more economical if there are several items you want rather than a single item.

I don't like the system either, but I've just resigned myself to having to buy 45 crates for an Apex and hope for good luck along the way.

I'd prefer a set price, but I'd rather have the exclusivity removed before the crates. I'd even be OK if they brought back all the crates to be bought any time.

Several posters are right though -- it's really designed to get you to make that initial 15 crate investment thinking there is a chance. Contrary to other posters, I don't think they're really targeting people to buy more than 30-45 crates (I am sure they like that though!). Reason being, the ROI on buying crates after 45 seems to be pretty high because of the probability of high value duplicates. But getting more people to invest in that first 15 crates is where the real money is for ESO.

It's a money scheme... but they're not really hiding it. We just need to walk right into it with eyes open.

ghastley · May 2018

I'd just like to see some logic in what they decide to make "limited time exclusives". To my mind these should be the elaborate effects or bizarre colours of mounts, not the simple colour variants such as black or white. Houses have to exist in the game to be seen as exteriors, or to visit, so why are any of those limited-time? I don't recall if there are any discrepancies between mounts and younger pet versions of the same creature, but it wouldn't be surprising.

I'd also be prepared to have these items locked behind an in-game achievement, in the way that, for example, a master crafter can buy a crafting sign. I.e. earn the right to buy them, and limit them that way.

The main objection is that the exclusivity is arbitrary and artificial. It's especially dubious when it's through a gambling mechanism.

Tholian1 · May 2018

No more exclusive stuff. Price things reasonably for direct sale. The more options people can buy, the more diverse choices they have.

DaveMoeDee · May 2018

Turelus wrote: »

I wouldn't pay much more than 5,500 Crowns.

That's already $39.99 so even then the mount would have to be very good to pick up at a cost higher than a DLC/Expansion.

This is why crates make sense for them. A decent number of people willing to spend 15k crowns on a mount will be willing to buy a bunch of crates. There are also a large number of people who would never consider spending 15k crowns on a mount, but would be willing to buy 5 crates for a chance. Some even love the thrill of it.