Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 8, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 8, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available.
auction house = too efficient an economy = no auction house!
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wenchmore420b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ok, my 2 drakes for what it's worth....
Manipulate the market~
AH~ you go to a trader. The whole world of products is there. I take 20 mill and buy all temper alloys, and I then can control price and market of alloys.
ESO~ I have to travel to 183 traders, plus load screen time, buy all tempers I can find, and then I have only 5 guilds to sell them in.
Which system is easier to manipulate?
Shards and Mega-Server~
Games like WoW have hundreds of "Shards" that split up the player base. When you go to a AH there, it is just the items and players of that shard listed.
ESO is not limited to that. We are ALL in the same space, just different instances. So, case in point, all the people who complain about searching a dozen of pages for a item will be searching thousands of pages to find it. Plus the system could not handle a AH with millions and millions of items, (again, the megaserver tech). Yes, AH works in other games. ESO is not other games.
I remember when there were no guild traders! You sold to guildies and stood on a corner in Riften or your alliance capitol and bought and sold in chat. I like the current system.
But it is a moot argument. ZoS designed the trade system for a reason. And Zos has stated for years that NO, no AH.
Just my 2 Drakes....HuzzahDrakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
"Not All Who Wander are Lost"
#MOREHOUSINGSLOTS“When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”
_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)9 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have no problem with current system as a seller and I probably get better deals when I scour Tamriel for a high priced item. But after I scour Tamriel, I realize I wasted most of my available time for playing the game that day.5 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.
A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.
You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?
Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.
At least, that's how I understand it.
If you are willing to travel around Tamriel, you can find deals. To fix a market to the degree you mention, you would have to go to a lot of zones to snatch up inventories. Before the event, I visited every kiosk in Tamriel and bough all Jute <= 30g per. I was able to sell a decent amount at 75g per or even 100g per during the event while making sure I didn't run out. It too a lot of time to do that, which is why I never do that otherwise.0 -
ZiRM✭✭✭✭✭
✭
what?
Want to become Vampire? 5k @ZiRM in game.ESO Server Status. ( ^_^)o自自o(^_^ ) SkåL!!!!!0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Ok, my 2 drakes for what it's worth....
Manipulate the market~
AH~ you go to a trader. The whole world of products is there. I take 20 mill and buy all temper alloys, and I then can control price and market of alloys.
Which system is easier to manipulate?
So what's going to happen if you buy all aviable temper alloys from an auction house and relist them at a much higher price? Players will see the increased price and more and more players will start buying and farming raw materials on their own instead of buying your overpriced tempers. They will sell their own tempers while undercutting you. You won't sell the majority of those tempers and just wasted tons of money. The price will drop until the efford to farm the materials and the money balance each other out. Basic principle of supply and demand.
In the guild store system players are much more likely to pay for overpriced items, because they don't want to spend hours trying to find the best price. And the obscurity of the system results in players - especially new ones - selling some items for much less than their actual value. Both those points together create huge price spans. And traders can capitalize on those. Buying low and selling high works with an auction house too, but it is more limited, due to better transparency and higher competition.
Most players who defend Guild Stores do so because it allows them to make more money. But from a buyers poing of view the system is absolutely garbage.wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Shards and Mega-Server~
Games like WoW have hundreds of "Shards" that split up the player base. When you go to a AH there, it is just the items and players of that shard listed.
ESO is not limited to that. We are ALL in the same space, just different instances. So, case in point, all the people who complain about searching a dozen of pages for a item will be searching thousands of pages to find it. Plus the system could not handle a AH with millions and millions of items, (again, the megaserver tech). Yes, AH works in other games. ESO is not other games.
I don't know about WoW, but i played GW2, which has a global AH for not only one but two megaservers together. And searching for an item takes a few seconds there. So technically it is perfectly possible. Just because the ESO system sucks doesn't mean it can't be done better.Edited by Rianai on April 28, 2018 4:52PM5 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭DuskMarine wrote: »generalmyrick wrote: »because the market would be too fluid.
as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.
that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!
that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?
dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)
a auction house is not even close to a profitable and useful way to sell stuff in any game yall need to stop trying to force this failure of a system. it makes everything in a game worth nothing at all because everyone undercuts everyone to the point everybody stops selling all together and then the economy dies. that is why a auction should never ever be brought to a game period.
What hurts our system more is that there is no item degradation to a final failure. Once you own a piece you never have to replace it.
The pool of purchasers is limited mainly to new players. Existing players can loan the items to their other characters, this is not bad just makes it bad for a economic point of creating a market need.
0 -
datgladiatah✭✭✭The most embarrassing thing about this discussion is the fact that they have to constantly mention that every modern mmo uses an auction house. Have you ever considered they're just knocking off what they know "works"? Not every game designer is creative enough to make up entirely original systems.
The system works fine. It's super easy to join a guild and most trade guilds require very little to no taxes and no required interaction. The Auction House/Rawlmart/Silk Road/Insert Guild Name Here/Meat Market usually have open slots and only ask you to donate for raffles if you want. Many other guilds with traders on the side do not require taxes. I've rarely joined guilds with taxes, even Ethereal Trade Union (2) only asks you to sell a minimum amount a week and it's a pitiful number if you're a mat farmer. It's just not an issue and you could always zone trade, I use those when I see a good opportunity while I'm farming sets or mats.
It's a system that allows for a strong competitive market. Price verification is hard to confirm exactly. The ONLY thing that REALLY needs to change is the search system. Not being able to search key phrases is something that needs to be done. But I can understand if that system could cause server lag considering how many items would appear.2 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Ok, my 2 drakes for what it's worth....
Manipulate the market~
AH~ you go to a trader. The whole world of products is there. I take 20 mill and buy all temper alloys, and I then can control price and market of alloys.
Which system is easier to manipulate?
So what's going to happen if you buy all aviable temper alloys from an auction house and relist them at a much higher price? Players will see the increased price and more and more players will start buying and farming raw materials on their own instead of buying your overpriced tempers. They will sell their own tempers while undercutting you. You won't sell the majority of those tempers and just wasted tons of money. The price will drop until the efford to farm the materials and the money balance each other out. Basic principle of supply and demand.
In the guild store system players are much more likely to pay for overpriced items, because they don't want to spend hours trying to find the best price. And the obscurity of the system results in players - especially new ones - selling some items for much less than their actual value. Both those points together create huge price spans. And traders can capitalize on those. Buying low and selling high works with an auction house too, but it is more limited, due to better transparency and higher competition.
Most players who defend Guild Stores do so because it allows them to make more money. But from a buyers poing of view the system is absolutely garbage.wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Shards and Mega-Server~
Games like WoW have hundreds of "Shards" that split up the player base. When you go to a AH there, it is just the items and players of that shard listed.
ESO is not limited to that. We are ALL in the same space, just different instances. So, case in point, all the people who complain about searching a dozen of pages for a item will be searching thousands of pages to find it. Plus the system could not handle a AH with millions and millions of items, (again, the megaserver tech). Yes, AH works in other games. ESO is not other games.
I don't know about WoW, but i played GW2, which has a global AH for not only one but two megaservers together. And searching for an item takes a few seconds there. So technically it is perfectly possible. Just because the ESO system sucks doesn't mean it can't be done better.
finally...intelligent commentary.
YES, the current system favors sellers, and an ah would favor buyers!"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.4 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭generalmyrick wrote: »generalmyrick wrote: »because the market would be too fluid.
as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.
As the supply of a particular item reached infinity, the price of that item would reach zero.
As I'm reading it, that would NEVER happen because someone would go buying it all up. Or...did I get that wrong?
As supply reaches infinity, it would be too much for someone to buy it all up. And people wouldn't want to anyway because the item's value approaches zero.
could you give us a list of desirable items in eso whose supply is approaching infinity please?3 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.0 -
Grendel_at_ESO✭✭✭Don't need an auction house, they just need add a universal search NPC that covers all the merchants. They could implement a service charge for ordering whatever you want to buy directly from there or you could save some money and go to where the merchant is. The way they have it now is ***.
2 -
Motherball✭✭✭✭You guys can keep your lousy trade system. Plenty of games to satisfy that itch. With ESO, trading is the same as a single player game, I just dont loot it unless I can use it or sell it to a vendor. Great economy guys!1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Lack of search is the main issue, server side text search / object search (click on an item to search for set or motif)Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.
A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.
You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?
Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.
At least, that's how I understand it.
I would like to see an intuitive search function inside the trader menu so you can easier see if what you want is listed. This would speed up looking for items you want/need but would still require visiting many traders if you are bargain shopping. How I shop kind of depends on what I need. If it is a common item I usually just hit a main hub because prices will be similar. Higher priced items I tend to shop around more because the prices can be all over the place. Really rare items I grab as soon as I see them unless the price is silly.
Keep the current filters and add new ones.
Awesome guild stores works well here but only filter client side, server side and with an log over previous queries so you can fast check multiple traders
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.
A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.
You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?
Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.
At least, that's how I understand it.
This conspiracy theory again.
The bidding isn't fixed. The bids are hilariously high. If you really want a Rawl'kha trader, you just need to get your 499 buddies together and sell an absolute metric **** ton of stuff in another kiosk before you trade up. There's no conspiracy here, just don't expect that they're only spending the 10k minimum on a spot and then pocketing the rest of the cash, that doesn't happen.1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Ok, my 2 drakes for what it's worth....
Manipulate the market~
AH~ you go to a trader. The whole world of products is there. I take 20 mill and buy all temper alloys, and I then can control price and market of alloys.
ESO~ I have to travel to 183 traders, plus load screen time, buy all tempers I can find, and then I have only 5 guilds to sell them in.
Which system is easier to manipulate?
The latter, because there's only ever a small proportion of the players that can sell items. Trading systems are much harder to manipulate when there's a genuinely open and free market.2 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.
A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.
You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?
Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.
At least, that's how I understand it.
This conspiracy theory again.
The bidding isn't fixed. The bids are hilariously high. If you really want a Rawl'kha trader, you just need to get your 499 buddies together and sell an absolute metric **** ton of stuff in another kiosk before you trade up. There's no conspiracy here, just don't expect that they're only spending the 10k minimum on a spot and then pocketing the rest of the cash, that doesn't happen.
i have personally overheard a convo between guild leaders.
guild leader A was trying to sell the spot to guild leader B after his attempt to flip the grahtwood spot failed and it was wednesday and he needed to move it before his losses were too high."The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »generalmyrick wrote: »because the market would be too fluid.
as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.
that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!
that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?
dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)
a auction house is not even close to a profitable and useful way to sell stuff in any game yall need to stop trying to force this failure of a system. it makes everything in a game worth nothing at all because everyone undercuts everyone to the point everybody stops selling all together and then the economy dies. that is why a auction should never ever be brought to a game period.
And yet every other MMORPG has an auction house that continues to thrive as do those games' economies. No MMORPG has found it necessary to replace an existing auction house system with a guild trader system. I can just imagine the furor on the forums if those developers announced their intention to scrap their open access trading system for one in which trading was to be restricted to a handful of guilds. Moreover, the guilds would be up in arms when the developers told them how much they were going to have to pay each week to access it.
I'm not necessarily in favour of an auction house in ESO, but the present system is too restricted in the number of players it caters for and is too dependent on addons that can only be used by a third of the playerbase. It doesn't necessarily need replacing, but it does need opening up as part of a radical overhaul.Edited by Tandor on April 28, 2018 11:01PM1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Ok, my 2 drakes for what it's worth....
Manipulate the market~
AH~ you go to a trader. The whole world of products is there. I take 20 mill and buy all temper alloys, and I then can control price and market of alloys.
Which system is easier to manipulate?
So what's going to happen if you buy all aviable temper alloys from an auction house and relist them at a much higher price? Players will see the increased price and more and more players will start buying and farming raw materials on their own instead of buying your overpriced tempers. They will sell their own tempers while undercutting you. You won't sell the majority of those tempers and just wasted tons of money. The price will drop until the efford to farm the materials and the money balance each other out. Basic principle of supply and demand.
In practice? Most people roll with the new prices, without realizing that anything's changed at all. This is especially true when an individual or small group creates an artificial floor for an item, and snatch up any that get posted below it. At that point they will make significantly more than they spent.
For example, if you used ESO's prices, someone bumping Dreugh Wax to 20k might get people's attention and provoke the response you're looking at. However, if someone bumped it to 6k, most players wouldn't even notice. Over time they could even move it up to 20k, without spiking the price and creating a farming shock the way you're describing. Sure, it would take six or seven months, but then they'd be selling for 20k.In the guild store system players are much more likely to pay for overpriced items, because they don't want to spend hours trying to find the best price. And the obscurity of the system results in players - especially new ones - selling some items for much less than their actual value. Both those points together create huge price spans. And traders can capitalize on those. Buying low and selling high works with an auction house too, but it is more limited, due to better transparency and higher competition.
Most players who defend Guild Stores do so because it allows them to make more money. But from a buyers poing of view the system is absolutely garbage.
Yeah, it'd be much better when you might accidentally spend 4k on a piece of Dreugh Wax, than if someone consolidated their funds, and pushed the market to 20k per. Better that everyone pays inflated prices. Right.wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Shards and Mega-Server~
Games like WoW have hundreds of "Shards" that split up the player base. When you go to a AH there, it is just the items and players of that shard listed.
ESO is not limited to that. We are ALL in the same space, just different instances. So, case in point, all the people who complain about searching a dozen of pages for a item will be searching thousands of pages to find it. Plus the system could not handle a AH with millions and millions of items, (again, the megaserver tech). Yes, AH works in other games. ESO is not other games.
I don't know about WoW, but i played GW2, which has a global AH for not only one but two megaservers together. And searching for an item takes a few seconds there. So technically it is perfectly possible. Just because the ESO system sucks doesn't mean it can't be done better.
Or, you know, just because GW2 does it, doesn't mean that everyone else needs to be a carbon copy. I mean, would you really prefer a system like The Division's? Where there is no item trading whatsoever unless you're in a group with them when the item is looted?2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭generalmyrick wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.
A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.
You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?
Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.
At least, that's how I understand it.
This conspiracy theory again.
The bidding isn't fixed. The bids are hilariously high. If you really want a Rawl'kha trader, you just need to get your 499 buddies together and sell an absolute metric **** ton of stuff in another kiosk before you trade up. There's no conspiracy here, just don't expect that they're only spending the 10k minimum on a spot and then pocketing the rest of the cash, that doesn't happen.
i have personally overheard a convo between guild leaders.
guild leader A was trying to sell the spot to guild leader B after his attempt to flip the grahtwood spot failed and it was wednesday and he needed to move it before his losses were too high.
And they just had this conversation, openly, in zone, for all to hear, because they're a supersecret cabal that communicates only in /z... right.1 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.
A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.
You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?
Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.
At least, that's how I understand it.
This conspiracy theory again.
The bidding isn't fixed. The bids are hilariously high. If you really want a Rawl'kha trader, you just need to get your 499 buddies together and sell an absolute metric **** ton of stuff in another kiosk before you trade up. There's no conspiracy here, just don't expect that they're only spending the 10k minimum on a spot and then pocketing the rest of the cash, that doesn't happen.
Yeah, I ain't playing this game to get a degree in economics, but it still seems like this system makes it hard for new people to break through the ceiling.
I also don't play to enjoy Shopping Simulator: Tamriel Edition; call it being lazy if you want, but that's not my idea of fun. I'm in favor of a centralized trading house because it just seems easier. Give us a way to search all traders from the bank or something. Give non-guild players a place to post their items, and just hike the taxes to offset the convenience. Whatever. Buying valuables at reasonable prices is a chore, and joining guilds just to sell and leave makes me feel like a donkey-hole. I don't shop in the most inconvenient possible way in real life, so why would I do it in a game?"I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.5 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
It is cheap and easy for the studios to do it, and they don't really care if people manipulate the market. Shrug. Played those games. ESO is better.Edited by Elsonso on April 29, 2018 12:50AMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭generalmyrick wrote: »because the market would be too fluid.
as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.
that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!
that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?
dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)
Too fluid? Like diarrhea?0 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As someone who uses traders to sell 95% of the time - I do not care which system they use. The only change I would like to see is a global item search function which tells you which traders have a particular item and where they are (not the price).
The only people who want an AH are those who want to buy stuff instead of getting it for themselves. To those people I say you deserve what you get. Instead of complaining that prices are too high, spend that time getting the item yourself.
For me to sell something in a guild store, I have to go and get it first - so you can too.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.0 -
I'd kill for a central auction house function in this game ..
but it seems guild traders are here to stay ...
ah well1 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
It is cheap and easy for the studios to do it, and they don't really care if people manipulate the market. Shrug. Played those games. ESO is better.
ESO is in no way better than a centralized market, those that can barely play 2 hours a day will only play this game to a degree then quit because the time it take to even zone from one place to another to check 6 vendors is nearly 30 minutes sometimes.
But with a legit centralized server wide market it would be compiled into one filter and thus 1 second search compared to 30 minutes of your time.0 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would gladly take any tradeoffs for selling to gain the ability to quickly find all the gear, crafting mats, motifs, ect that I want for the best prices available without having to spend an hour going from one guild trader to the next scrolling through endless lists of items for each thing just trying to find it listed first and then trying to find it for a good price. For certain set pieces or a motif that doesn't get farmed much this can take up a lot of your time.
Not to mention even if you didn't make the money you do now selling at the best guild trader locations, imagine the time saved to farm more or just actually play the game when you're not having to look through multiple guilds to see what price to list each item at in order for it to sell. This usually ends up in me having multiple characters and a bank completely filled with no slots available because it's too much like work going through and listing everything at the rate you get it.
Another great aspect of an Auction House would be no more having to pay 15k/week to be in guilds with prime trader locations like Mournhold. It costs a ton for the guilds to win the bid on a trader at the top location so for the average casual seller you lose a lot of your profit each week in guild fees.Edited by Twohothardware on April 29, 2018 5:01AM1 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »generalmyrick wrote: »generalmyrick wrote: »because the market would be too fluid.
as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.
As the supply of a particular item reached infinity, the price of that item would reach zero.
As I'm reading it, that would NEVER happen because someone would go buying it all up. Or...did I get that wrong?
As supply reaches infinity, it would be too much for someone to buy it all up. And people wouldn't want to anyway because the item's value approaches zero.
could you give us a list of desirable items in eso whose supply is approaching infinity please?
Read the conversation trail. It started with this:
"as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money."
No one is saying there is infinite supply.0
