Negate (Silence) should not affect Repentance and similar skills

RealPhoenix · April 2018

So, the tooltip of Negate states that it silences enemy players, which in turn prevents them from casting spells (and ultimates).
From my understanding, spells in eso are all skills that costs magicka.
So why are skills like repentance or the warden netch affected by a negate? Those skills do not have a cost and - in my opinion - should not be classified as spells.

This, of course, only affects the Morph Repentance and not the base version and the other morph of the skill.
For the warden skill, only the mag version is affected and the stam version is not. I do not think that is correct behaviour as both skills do not have a cost, even though I do understand where it comes from more here as the mag morph will be chosen by the magicka wardens 99% of the time. Repentance however is used by both magicka and stamina templars.

Karm1cOne · April 2018

Consistency has never been ZOSs strong suit.

Tasear · April 2018

Oh noes.. negate barely negates so let it go.

Nerf sorc healer thread who knew the day would come .

So being reasonable now negate literally negates enemy placed effects. It's like earthgore can remove some mysterious things. It also stuns or silences and either heals or does damage.

P.S
Negate maybe I misjuged you. I might slot again someday.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

They're still spells regardless of what they cost (or dont cost). Netch is still summoning a creature, that's a spell (even though it's free). Repentance is still using the 'power of the light' to draw energy from corpses, that's also a spell.

Technically abilities like vigor should be effected as well, regardless of the stamina cost. Really the only thing you should be able to do while silenced is swing your weapons =P

RealPhoenix · April 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Oh noes.. negate barely negates so let it go. Nerf sorc healer thread who knew the day would come .

So being reasonable now negate literally negates enemy placed effects. It's like earthgore can remove some mysterious things. It also stuns or silences and either heals or does damage.

P.S
Negate maybe I misjuged you. I might slot again someday.

Have you ever played pvp? It is THE ultimate that kills stacking enemy groups.

Also, this has nothing to do with nerfing sorc healers at all, it is a PvP Comment cause as stated, it affects enemy player´s abilities and not PvE.

RealPhoenix · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

They're still spells regardless of what they cost (or dont cost). Netch is still summoning a creature, that's a spell (even though it's free). Repentance is still using the 'power of the light' to draw energy from corpses, that's also a spell.

Technically abilities like vigor should be effected as well, regardless of the stamina cost. Really the only thing you should be able to do while silenced is swing your weapons =P

You should read a bit closer. Only the magicka netch is affected.
Also, you are going by the visual effects, which doesnt make sense at all. By that, probably every skill but some of the stamina weapon skill line skills would be a spell.

Tasear · April 2018

Fr3ak1n0ut wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Oh noes.. negate barely negates so let it go. Nerf sorc healer thread who knew the day would come .

So being reasonable now negate literally negates enemy placed effects. It's like earthgore can remove some mysterious things. It also stuns or silences and either heals or does damage.

P.S
Negate maybe I misjuged you. I might slot again someday.

Have you ever played pvp? It is THE ultimate that kills stacking enemy groups.

Also, this has nothing to do with nerfing sorc healers at all, it is a PvP Comment cause as stated, it affects enemy player´s abilities and not PvE.

I was joking but it's honestly working as intended and skill usually questionable at best. It negates some npc or mob skills so yes it does count for both. Honestly I think skill needs attention but not in that direction you want. It's effect hardly has usage as it is.

RealPhoenix · April 2018

Tasear wrote: »

I was joking but it's honestly working as intended and skill usually questionable at best. It negates some npc or mob skills so yes it does count for both. Honestly I think skill needs attention but not in that direction you want. It's effect hardly has usage as it is.

I can only state it again - this affects pvp. Negate has a huge impact in that area and can definetly be considered one of the best ultimates.
For PvE its uses are limited, even though it is used in some trials by some groups. However, that discussion is out of the scope of this thread, so if youre unhappy with how negate works in PvE, make a separate one for it

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Fr3ak1n0ut wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Oh noes.. negate barely negates so let it go. Nerf sorc healer thread who knew the day would come .

So being reasonable now negate literally negates enemy placed effects. It's like earthgore can remove some mysterious things. It also stuns or silences and either heals or does damage.

P.S
Negate maybe I misjuged you. I might slot again someday.

Have you ever played pvp? It is THE ultimate that kills stacking enemy groups.

Also, this has nothing to do with nerfing sorc healers at all, it is a PvP Comment cause as stated, it affects enemy player´s abilities and not PvE.

Maybe enemy groups shouldnt stack so much? There's gotta be something to negate (lol) the zergs.

RealPhoenix · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Maybe enemy groups shouldnt stack so much? There's gotta be something to negate (lol) the zergs.

This is also a separate issue, can we please stay on topic?

Just to clarify: I am not trying to nerf negate in any way here, not for PvP nor PvE. I just think no-cost skills like repentance and netch should not be affected.
It really only comes down to some situations where the repentance in the negate might save you and imo, this would be a nice way of encouraging good tactical gameplay.

Sawzallz · April 2018

Well repentance starts off as a spell

GreenSoup2HoT · April 2018

negates shouldnt negate other ground based ultimates

RealPhoenix · April 2018

Sawzallz wrote: »

Well repentance starts off as a spell

It does

But repentance itself is not a spell.
Same goes for the warden buff, and the stam morph isnt affected.
So there really is no consitency.

RealPhoenix · April 2018

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

negates shouldnt negate other ground based ultimates

I agree, but thats a battle for another day

Reverb · April 2018

Too much inconsistency. Maybe it should negate everything except light/heavy attacks.

Savos_Saren · April 2018

100% agree that Negate shouldn’t negate ultimates. They don’t actually cost magicka.

Also, how does one ultimate trump another? Why should Negate cancel a Standard that has already been cast? I an understand why enemies shouldn’t be able to cast... but pre-cast effects shouldn’t be rendered negligible.

Also, there should be a stamina version that “blinds” stamina abilities so they can’t be cast. (Only fair- ya know?)

Waffennacht · April 2018

Standardized Language Used would prevent this

Yusuf · April 2018

Fr3ak1n0ut wrote: »

Sawzallz wrote: »

Well repentance starts off as a spell

It does
But repentance itself is not a spell.
Same goes for the warden buff, and the stam morph isnt affected.
So there really is no consitency.

Repentance looks like a spell to me my friend. It might not have any cost but it's pretty it's not something your character does by using his muscles.

datgladiatah · April 2018

What's the point of a silence spell if it only silences basic abilities lmfao. I still have a hard time understanding why spell-like 'stamina' morphs wouldn't be considered spells. You can't physically make a floating sword of radiant power over a dude's head. It's a spell.

Silence everything but weapon abilities. Or just basic attacks.

RealPhoenix · April 2018

Yusuf wrote: »

Repentance looks like a spell to me my friend. It might not have any cost but it's pretty it's not something your character does by using his muscles.

As stated before, the way the ability works is not about how the abilities look, but what resource they are based off (magicka).

There are a million stamina based abilities in this game that LOOK like a spell (Dont even get me started, just look through the whole warden skill line), but this is not how the ability currently choses the skills it negates.

Savos_Saren · April 2018

What determines "priority" over Ultimates, anyway?

If someone has a Nova, Standard, Secluded Grove, or Consuming Darkness already placed down- why is it Negated? The spell has already been cast BEFORE Negate was.

datgladiatah · April 2018

Negate is a dispel. It works like that on vEH2 boss and is consistent with any persistent spell effects in an aoe. It negates magic. Doesn't matter if it's before or after, if it's a persistent effect it probably gets negated.