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Will crown store gifting allow gold to crown item trading?
Aliyavana
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If no the article needs to state this before people get banned for trading ingame gold with the service. If it is then an extra trade window needs to be implemented that will allow you to confirm trading ingame gold for crown sales. Just saying but I can for see a series of threads popping up saying people got scammed if there is no rule against it.
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AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's nothing stopping it from happening.
ZOS is well aware of this, and as far as I know, it's not explicitly stated in the TOS about arranging a Crown Store gift in exchange for gold. Which makes this situation very murky.
ZOS really needs to come down on one side of this fence or the other. By being indifferent and silent on the issue, they really will encourage scamming. If ZOS doesn't want "CS gifts for gold" in their game, then they need to amend the TOS to make it illicit.
If they aren't going to make "CS gifts for gold" illicit, then they should just go the full measure and make it possible to trade gifts within the trading UI and/or COD them in the mail system. People are probably already going to do it whether ZOS says so or not, in which case the least ZOS could do is make it more secure and take control of the situation.
Either way, it would be better than the silence.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa16 -
Lyserus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭well, gold to crown trading is of course still a bannable offense. And from your words you want it to happen, shame shame shame.
however, my guess is unless someone do it publicly, there is no way for ZOS to determine whether an action is crown-gold trading or not.
BUT then again, the gifting system will require the element of trust, if one is to do the crown/gold trading. One have to gift another a manor/ send gold first and there is no garantee the other will keep his promise0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭well, gold to crown trading is of course still a bannable offense.
I've combed the TOS, EULA, and Code of Conduct and haven't found any mention of gold to crown trading.
Which isn't shocking: It's never been possible before. The Crown Store items you bought were account bound.
This is uncharted waters here.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa5 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Which isn't shocking: It's never been possible before.
Officially possible anyway. I'm well aware of the concierge service that Support had going for a while. I don't consider that a real means of trading, since you had to go through Support to carry out the transaction and it would raise significant red flags.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭well, gold to crown trading is of course still a bannable offense. And from your words you want it to happen, shame shame shame.
however, my guess is unless someone do it publicly, there is no way for ZOS to determine whether an action is crown-gold trading or not.
BUT then again, the gifting system will require the element of trust, if one is to do the crown/gold trading. One have to gift another a manor/ send gold first and there is no garantee the other will keep his promise
I didn't say I want it to happen, I know that trades will happen and zos needs to take measures against scamming if trades are allowed with built in ui or come out and say if it's bannableEdited by Aliyavana on April 27, 2018 4:25AM0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's nothing stopping it from happening.
ZOS is well aware of this, and as far as I know, it's not explicitly stated in the TOS about arranging a Crown Store gift in exchange for gold. Which makes this situation very murky.
ZOS really needs to come down on one side of this fence or the other. By being indifferent and silent on the issue, they really will encourage scamming. If ZOS doesn't want "CS gifts for gold" in their game, then they need to amend the TOS to make it illicit.
If they aren't going to make "CS gifts for gold" illicit, then they should just go the full measure and make it possible to trade gifts within the trading UI and/or COD them in the mail system. People are probably already going to do it whether ZOS says so or not, in which case the least ZOS could do is make it more secure and take control of the situation.
Either way, it would be better than the silence.
the good side about allowing it to be tradable is that it will possibly increase sales as well as take be a decent gold sink, the bad side about it is that people are greedy0 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GW2 has a crown to gold system. An official one, actually.
Yes and so do a lot of other games. But it's a brand new possibility here and ZOS is willfully neglecting to be clear about whether that will be an OK or a not OK thing to do once gifting is implemented.
And if they are OK with it, they are implementing it in the least secure way possible by not providing an interface for making those trades secure.
If nothing changes between now and when Update 18 goes live, there WILL be scams since those trades will be happening on the (dis?)honor system with one of the two players involved in the trade needing to perform their part of the bargain first. It'll be like all the vampire bite scams that were so common a few years back and still happen to this day except this will happen in a much larger scale.1 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
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If they aren't going to make "CS gifts for gold" illicit, then they should just go the full measure and make it possible to trade gifts within the trading UI and/or COD them in the mail system. People are probably already going to do it whether ZOS says so or not, in which case the least ZOS could do is make it more secure and take control of the situation.
wouldnt it be obvious that gifting a crown store item would send it direct to the other player, not via the trade window? just like crown store items work for you. in which case, there is no direct trade which means players who wanted to trade gold for crown items would have to be extremely suspicious, and anyone scamming would simply be reported for gold->crown 'gold farming' and get banned right?0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
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If they aren't going to make "CS gifts for gold" illicit, then they should just go the full measure and make it possible to trade gifts within the trading UI and/or COD them in the mail system. People are probably already going to do it whether ZOS says so or not, in which case the least ZOS could do is make it more secure and take control of the situation.
wouldnt it be obvious that gifting a crown store item would send it direct to the other player, not via the trade window? just like crown store items work for you. in which case, there is no direct trade which means players who wanted to trade gold for crown items would have to be extremely suspicious, and anyone scamming would simply be reported for gold->crown 'gold farming' and get banned right?
Well as I stated above, it's not bannable. It's not even punishable at all at the moment.
I just think that if ZOS isn't going to make it against TOS, they should just embrace it and make it open and secure. Half-steps will only create more problems.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa1 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If no the article needs to state this before people get banned for trading ingame gold with the service. If it is then an extra trade window needs to be implemented that will allow you to confirm trading ingame gold for crown sales. Just saying but I can for see a series of threads popping up saying people got scammed if there is no rule against it.
Of COURSE it will and No One can stop that because no one can stop you putting gold in my guild bank/mailing me gold/trading me 1 mil gold for a potato.
You pay the crowns, the concierge sends the item to the recipient. The recipient may or may not give you the gold they promised you.2 -
rynth✭✭✭✭✭It is not ZOS job to monitor this or enforce any rule it’s common sense. If you are going to use crown store gift it to someone for gold you are taking that risk of getting screwed over. It is YOUR responsibility to make choice of taking risk or not. I’m sure there will be adult kids cry in general discussion about getting screwed over and bottom line is it’s their own fault.
I would suggest if you do this then you make your transactions with people you know and trust only.When asked what he would do for a Klondike bar. Grand Moff Tarkin said "why I would blow up Alderaan."2 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If no the article needs to state this before people get banned for trading ingame gold with the service. If it is then an extra trade window needs to be implemented that will allow you to confirm trading ingame gold for crown sales. Just saying but I can for see a series of threads popping up saying people got scammed if there is no rule against it.
Of COURSE it will and No One can stop that because no one can stop you putting gold in my guild bank/mailing me gold/trading me 1 mil gold for a potato.
You pay the crowns, the concierge sends the item to the recipient. The recipient may or may not give you the gold they promised you.
Which is why I suggested a cod or trade window to support not being scammed. If let how it is then zos is going to have a high volume of support ticketsEdited by Aliyavana on April 27, 2018 7:14AM2 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is not ZOS job to monitor this or enforce any rule it’s common sense. If you are going to use crown store gift it to someone for gold you are taking that risk of getting screwed over. It is YOUR responsibility to make choice of taking risk or not. I’m sure there will be adult kids cry in general discussion about getting screwed over and bottom line is it’s their own fault.
I would suggest if you do this then you make your transactions with people you know and trust only.If no the article needs to state this before people get banned for trading ingame gold with the service. If it is then an extra trade window needs to be implemented that will allow you to confirm trading ingame gold for crown sales. Just saying but I can for see a series of threads popping up saying people got scammed if there is no rule against it.
Of COURSE it will and No One can stop that because no one can stop you putting gold in my guild bank/mailing me gold/trading me 1 mil gold for a potato.
You pay the crowns, the concierge sends the item to the recipient. The recipient may or may not give you the gold they promised you.
Which is why I suggested a cod or trade window to support not being scammed
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AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is not ZOS job to monitor this or enforce any rule it’s common sense. If you are going to use crown store gift it to someone for gold you are taking that risk of getting screwed over. It is YOUR responsibility to make choice of taking risk or not. I’m sure there will be adult kids cry in general discussion about getting screwed over and bottom line is it’s their own fault.
I would suggest if you do this then you make your transactions with people you know and trust only.
No, what's common sense is that ZOS should take control of the situation. If they want to allow people to trade crown gifts for gold, it should be done in a proper setting. That way there will be less problems.
Which would you prefer? Something to help prevent fires from starting? Or spending all your time putting out fires?PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa3 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is not ZOS job to monitor this or enforce any rule it’s common sense. If you are going to use crown store gift it to someone for gold you are taking that risk of getting screwed over. It is YOUR responsibility to make choice of taking risk or not. I’m sure there will be adult kids cry in general discussion about getting screwed over and bottom line is it’s their own fault.
I would suggest if you do this then you make your transactions with people you know and trust only.
No, what's common sense is that ZOS should take control of the situation. If they want to allow people to trade crown gifts for gold, it should be done in a proper setting. That way there will be less problems.
Which would you prefer? Something to help prevent fires from starting? Or spending all your time putting out fires?
Haha that analogy at the end0 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, i see a potential middle man scenario. Where well known people act as middle man. Person A gives gold to the middle man, Person B sends the Crown gift, and once both Person A an Person B both prove that the Gift arrived, the middle man will forward the gold to B2 -
Eyro✭✭✭✭I imagine they will come out against it. That way they don’t have to support it or try to figure out the I was scammed tickets.
But who knows, maybe they are way ahead of the curve on this.0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can't see any way this wont happen, even if ZOS says it's not allowed people are going to do it because there is no way for them to really track who is and isn't friends.
I will say that if it does happen a lot at least it's a legitimate way for players to buy gold with the money going to ZOS and not encouraging botting and crime via gold sellers.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."3 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is not ZOS job to monitor this or enforce any rule it’s common sense. If you are going to use crown store gift it to someone for gold you are taking that risk of getting screwed over. It is YOUR responsibility to make choice of taking risk or not. I’m sure there will be adult kids cry in general discussion about getting screwed over and bottom line is it’s their own fault.
I would suggest if you do this then you make your transactions with people you know and trust only.
No, what's common sense is that ZOS should take control of the situation. If they want to allow people to trade crown gifts for gold, it should be done in a proper setting. That way there will be less problems.
Which would you prefer? Something to help prevent fires from starting? Or spending all your time putting out fires?
It would be nice- but they're not going to. I'll betcha.0 -
Eyro✭✭✭✭It is not ZOS job to monitor this or enforce any rule it’s common sense. If you are going to use crown store gift it to someone for gold you are taking that risk of getting screwed over. It is YOUR responsibility to make choice of taking risk or not. I’m sure there will be adult kids cry in general discussion about getting screwed over and bottom line is it’s their own fault.
I would suggest if you do this then you make your transactions with people you know and trust only.
No, what's common sense is that ZOS should take control of the situation. If they want to allow people to trade crown gifts for gold, it should be done in a proper setting. That way there will be less problems.
Which would you prefer? Something to help prevent fires from starting? Or spending all your time putting out fires?
It would be nice- but they're not going to. I'll betcha.
Yup. Which is more cost effective. To spend hours trying to figure out scam complaints, or just say sorry this is against the rules bye now.
Although i do think it would be cool if they came up with a crown store auction house of sorts. People could pick out something from the crown store, set what they are willing to pay for it (which would be locked up in the bid) and leave. Then players interested could browse through it and purchase said item for that player and receive their gold. Something like that I think would certainly boost sales. And limit scams since the players never directly interact, and the gold is already on reserve.Edited by Eyro on April 27, 2018 11:27AM2 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GW2 has a crown to gold system. An official one, actually.
That doesn't mean it's permitted in ESO though, they're entirely separate games with different rules.
For example World of Warcraft has a rule that you cannot use titles in character names, either ones which exist in the game or from real life. So you couldn't call your WoW character Lord McGuffin for example. But both GW2 and ESO allow that and players often recommend it as a way to get around a desired name being taken.
GW2 was created with a legal gold to gems (aka crowns) exchange built into the game. So when they were drawing up the rules for the game they took that into consideration and wrote rules to make it clear that is permitted but exchanging gold for real money in any other format is not allowed and can get you banned.
ESO has rules that you can't sell gold for real money (or buy it with real money), but because crown store gifting has never existed before there's never been any need for rules on players selling crown store items. Unless ZOS gets on and adds one before this update people are going to assume that since there's no rule against it that means it's allowed.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"3 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is not ZOS job to monitor this or enforce any rule it’s common sense. If you are going to use crown store gift it to someone for gold you are taking that risk of getting screwed over. It is YOUR responsibility to make choice of taking risk or not. I’m sure there will be adult kids cry in general discussion about getting screwed over and bottom line is it’s their own fault.
I would suggest if you do this then you make your transactions with people you know and trust only.
No, what's common sense is that ZOS should take control of the situation. If they want to allow people to trade crown gifts for gold, it should be done in a proper setting. That way there will be less problems.
Which would you prefer? Something to help prevent fires from starting? Or spending all your time putting out fires?
How would they do that though? And how would they do this without messing up actual gifting?
If they are not able to protect all parties in a transaction, then they shouldn't take sides. And if you are going to protect only people trading crowns for gold, then you might as well just set up an exchange like the one GW2 has and leave gifting alone.
Because a "trade window" only works if you are trading actual things. What if you are trading a Skyreach carry? Or a vMoL skin? How do you protect both parties involved in this case? What if the person "buying" these services lies about having crowns? Is ZOS supposed to bill their credit card for the amount that the complainant says they are owed? Who should they believe?The Moot Councillor0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is not ZOS job to monitor this or enforce any rule it’s common sense. If you are going to use crown store gift it to someone for gold you are taking that risk of getting screwed over. It is YOUR responsibility to make choice of taking risk or not. I’m sure there will be adult kids cry in general discussion about getting screwed over and bottom line is it’s their own fault.
I would suggest if you do this then you make your transactions with people you know and trust only.
No, what's common sense is that ZOS should take control of the situation. If they want to allow people to trade crown gifts for gold, it should be done in a proper setting. That way there will be less problems.
Which would you prefer? Something to help prevent fires from starting? Or spending all your time putting out fires?
How would they do that though? And how would they do this without messing up actual gifting?
If they are not able to protect all parties in a transaction, then they shouldn't take sides. And if you are going to protect only people trading crowns for gold, then you might as well just set up an exchange like the one GW2 has and leave gifting alone.
Because a "trade window" only works if you are trading actual things. What if you are trading a Skyreach carry? Or a vMoL skin? How do you protect both parties involved in this case? What if the person "buying" these services lies about having crowns? Is ZOS supposed to bill their credit card for the amount that the complainant says they are owed? Who should they believe?
This is about trading crown to gold services, not other things that can't easily be monitored0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@zos_ginabruno what is zos gonna do bout This? Allow gold and crown trading or ban it?0 -
ookami007✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is NO way to prevent a clever person from doing this. Put an item in your store for 2000000, have the person buy it... Then send the crown item. Done. All above board and untraceable without lots of manual review. Plus... If they make the deal in TS or Other voice chat service... There would be no email or text chat log.
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think if they allow it they just need to come out with a serious stance and warning that anyone scamming with it will get slapped with a perma-ban.
That's how other games have regulated areas where they don't want scamming to happen. As long as they actually back it up any way. Although whether they have the systems to check every single one considering how much can happen out of game to set up the deal.
I think safest method would be Crown Gift player always sends first.
It's easier for ZOS to take a gift back and refund crowns than start messing with peoples gold.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
xilfxlegion✭✭✭✭✭I can't see any way this wont happen, even if ZOS says it's not allowed people are going to do it because there is no way for them to really track who is and isn't friends.
I will say that if it does happen a lot at least it's a legitimate way for players to buy gold with the money going to ZOS and not encouraging botting and crime via gold sellers.
still dont understand why zos doesnt sell in-game gold ---- that would instantly get rid of the gold sellers0
