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Execute ! For MagDK
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GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would be nice, but Talons, Fossilize, whip, whip, whip.. and press repeat work just fine. It's why MagDK is so deadly. Don't mess with MagDK anymore. Buff it, cool. If anymore nerf to anything, I'm going to Super Mario Cart.1 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You get Bloodthirsty jewellery this patch, that gives you a pseudo execute, which works pretty nicely with the high constant damage DK deals.
...as does everyone else. And mDKs would then lose out on ~1000 magicka from their pool for each trait slotted. I wonder how OP it will be on classes that already have executes?Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren1 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭themaddaedra wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »But ZoS is homogenizing the game already ... Nightblade tank abilities . Spammable Templar dps . Might as well give DK an execute now . It's probably in the works with Wrobel's team . It's already begun with all the other classes .
Well but DK is an exception to this imo. As DK has always been the one and only acceptable tank, while being able to be either mag or stam dd. Actually for quite some time it was the best option for a tank and best option for a stamdd.
I know ZoS is already homogenizing the game, and i would kinda agree if DKs now couldn't be DDs due to lacking of execution. But they can already pull what others do, without having an execute. And asking for an execute ability for DKs would end up bringing them some other nerfs imo.
I mostly play PvE these days and i don't truly care if there's a DK or another class in the melee spot, but there's also this point that DKs are quite strong in PvP (not saying op here) without execute anyways.
So giving DK an execute ability would not make any difference apart from making the game even more homogenized and causing some nerf to DK's other damage sources.
For the 1st bolded part:
...of course you'd consider mDKs as the exception. From your signature line, I can see that you play a Templar, Sorc, and Nightblade. If you do play an mDK- it's apparently not enough to list it on your signature.
And for the second bolded part:
The other classes have executes and have been receiving buffs as well... so I don't know where this logic is coming from.
Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren3 -
Dottzgaming✭✭✭✭✭Honestly we dont need an execute skill. MagDK bars are already packed to the brim as it is. The class does not need an execute to further clutter things up.
What would be better is if we had a second passive bundled into, say, "Warmth" that increases dot damage by X% on enemies below 25%/20%/15% health (whatever ZoS determines is best). It plays thematically into the class and doesn't further clutter our bar space.
I saw someone say make Power Lash undodgeable and while i would love that as much as the next guy, i understand and can see the rational behind making it dodgeable. Id much prefer if the initial hit from Burning Embers wasnt dodgeable anymore. But thats a whole other conversationEdited by Dottzgaming on April 26, 2018 2:52PM5 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »You get Bloodthirsty jewellery this patch, that gives you a pseudo execute, which works pretty nicely with the high constant damage DK deals.
...as does everyone else. And mDKs would then lose out on ~1000 magicka from their pool for each trait slotted. I wonder how OP it will be on classes that already have executes?
...as does everyone else (loosing out on ~ 1000 magicka when using bloodthirsty) - and it doesn't do as much as you think to executes. When they are used right on the current patch they already finish the job. It does more to pressure builds that don't use an execute as each DoT does more damage then.0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭grannas211 wrote: »Only class, also Mag Warden
pick one
Mag warden has the bear execute.
It may be a pet execute, but it is an execute and the bear is a constant ally0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭actually every opinion here to include a passive execute for dks would just b inbalanced, since dk's in pve heavely rely on dots more than any other class. so adding damage to dots against enemies in execute range would be an immense dps increase fr a class pretty much only doing damage with dots. look at stamdk, they didnt even use a spammable in their rotation, only heavy attacks and applying dots. the same goes for magdks, they have more dots than other classes to apply, so any passive favoring dots damage would make the dks dps skyrocketing. also a passive like the ones from sorcerer would make dk dd's top notch. if the passive would provide additional damage to enemies in execute range from flame damage, that would proc on cooldown on magdks. implosion on stamsorc already is a huge increase in dps and magsorcs profit less from it, since fre damage is the desired pve damage type and not lightning damage. you cant give such a thing to the fire damage class. the only possibility to get an execute, which would be fair is an execute ability. but i dont think that dks really need that.0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Well MagDK is still one of the weaker classes on PTS currently. While able to pull off 50k without Raidbuffs, only Bubbles and Drain, every other magicka class hits harder. So yeah it could still use a buff.
Bloodthirsty needs a nerf though lol.
lol. Magicka DK pretty strong with spamamable flame lash , Good CC and strong healing. Magick DK is pretty strong. Any buffs to magicaka DK will make it a overpowered class. No one wants a overpowered class after NB mess. Move along. No one is going to agree.
Socrerer doesnt even have a spammable DPS . Warden doesnt have a CC or execute. Everyone cannot have everything unless there is overpowered issue.Edited by Priyasekarssk on April 26, 2018 7:42PM0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Its OK to buff DK execution ability , they will be the top tank and dps in the game .
It will become overpowered or even godly PVP class. Magicka DKs is already pretty strong class in PVP with shields, Good CC, healing and spammable whips. Atleast stun from whips has to be removed. Magica Dks has least skill requirement. Have shields up. CC , whip... continue until target dies with an ultimate. If strife got nerfed, why not whips ? At least whip should remove CC effect to create a balance even costs the same.
Problem is , if magicka DKs learn how to abuse whips, other magicka classes cannot survive. NBs abuse strifes in the same way, but it has no CC. If I lock a magicka builds with low stamina pool , he is good as dead. He cannot CC break with low stamina pool. Just whip whip ...Edited by Priyasekarssk on April 26, 2018 5:31PM0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »I don't care what the plebs say it's unfair that dk is the only class with no execute hack they gave sorcs two of them at least give us one!
Dude warden also deos not have execute. Scorer does not have a spammable skill . DKs has best spammable in the game. Can you trade execute for spammable flame lash ?
Dont post something which not even a issue.
Warden does have an execute (bear ultimate) But I agree that it’s not effective in a PVP enviornment. Mag wardens could use a better execute.
Spammable attacks do not equal an execute. All stam builds have weapon spammables AND executes. That’s comparing apples to oranges.
Yes it actually does, the reason why dk doesn't have an execute, is because of awesome spammable, most powerful ultimate in the game for dps, some of the most powerful dots, therefore no execute.
You do not seem to understand that dps is calculated throughout the fight, which means that a good spammable could surpass a good execute dps wise if the spammable deals more damage through the fight then what the execute does at the end.
If the made an execute for dk, they woule have to either give up something else, or make all the other classes stronger, i think we all know what zos would decide to do.Edited by JinMori on April 26, 2018 6:06PM1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I love how this line of logic is only applied to mag classes.
Where's the strength vs allocation analysis with Stam classes?
Apparently as long as you're stamina, every class is allowed access to an execute - no matter how good the class is independent of weapon lines (looking at you Stam NB and Stam Warden)
But if you're mag, hold on now - we gotta make sure you're not too powerful to have an execute0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Dottzgaming wrote: »Honestly we dont need an execute skill. MagDK bars are already packed to the brim as it is. The class does not need an execute to further clutter things up.
What would be better is if we had a second passive bundled into, say, "Warmth" that increases dot damage by X% on enemies below 25%/20%/15% health (whatever ZoS determines is best). It plays thematically into the class and doesn't further clutter our bar space.
I saw someone say make Power Lash undodgeable and while i would love that as much as the next guy, i understand and can see the rational behind making it dodgeable. Id much prefer if the initial hit from Burning Embers wasnt dodgeable anymore. But thats a whole other conversation
Alcast already in whipping spreee with magicka DK all around summerset. Magicka DK already become good meta now in summerset with light attacks combined with CC & heals comes from Lashes , until next combat balance comes out. It will become big annoyance in PVP for sure than its already now. Everyone come in forums and cry to nerf flame lash. Until then happy whipping!!!Edited by Priyasekarssk on April 26, 2018 8:22PM0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A direct damage skill execute won't ever work on a MagDK. Whip hits for a similar amount of damage as an execute (assuming its not super low, at which point they will be finished either way) and the class relies a little more on pressure. As such, bars are cramped as all hell.
A passive one would also be a bit cheesy, something like implosion would be RNG, something like DW slaughter would ramp DPS up higher. So back to the recently gutted power lash.
Its unique, its not spammable, it requires 3 gcds to hit, and if you couldn't use the numerous methods of evasion then you were probs *** tbh. It should be undodgable again.
OR.
Deal execute damage, but instead of 300 under 25, it'd ramp slowly up to 100% extra at 25%, starting from full health. i.e. at 62.5 it'd deal 50% extra damage. This is of course instead of the current power lash damage increase.
Remember, not only do DKs have the shittest class based defense in the game, [Passive tankiness comes to worse than minor protection, wings is awful, maim is good, but hardly unique] the shittest mobility, one of the (this patch) worst mag sustains, but the worst finishing too. Its not like everything else shines above all either, CC is good, but sorcs and NBs have quite comparable levels. Healing is nice, but templar/warden take the cake. Potential burst is very high, but to spec for the ZOS approved DK defense, block, you lose a lot of it.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭A direct damage skill execute won't ever work on a MagDK. Whip hits for a similar amount of damage as an execute (assuming its not super low, at which point they will be finished either way) and the class relies a little more on pressure. As such, bars are cramped as all hell.
A passive one would also be a bit cheesy, something like implosion would be RNG, something like DW slaughter would ramp DPS up higher. So back to the recently gutted power lash.
Its unique, its not spammable, it requires 3 gcds to hit, and if you couldn't use the numerous methods of evasion then you were probs *** tbh. It should be undodgable again.
OR.
Deal execute damage, but instead of 300 under 25, it'd ramp slowly up to 100% extra at 25%, starting from full health. i.e. at 62.5 it'd deal 50% extra damage. This is of course instead of the current power lash damage increase.
Remember, not only do DKs have the shittest class based defense in the game, [Passive tankiness comes to worse than minor protection, wings is awful, maim is good, but hardly unique] the shittest mobility, one of the (this patch) worst mag sustains, but the worst finishing too. Its not like everything else shines above all either, CC is good, but sorcs and NBs have quite comparable levels. Healing is nice, but templar/warden take the cake. Potential burst is very high, but to spec for the ZOS approved DK defense, block, you lose a lot of it.
Pretty much any kind of execute would push dks to top far above all other classes...
Dks have the shittiest defense in the game. Did you forget that they make the best tanks in the game? Maybe they dont have a mechanic like shieldstacking or cloaking, but they surely have better defense than templars...which also has less damage than dks.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A direct damage skill execute won't ever work on a MagDK. Whip hits for a similar amount of damage as an execute (assuming its not super low, at which point they will be finished either way) and the class relies a little more on pressure. As such, bars are cramped as all hell.
A passive one would also be a bit cheesy, something like implosion would be RNG, something like DW slaughter would ramp DPS up higher. So back to the recently gutted power lash.
Its unique, its not spammable, it requires 3 gcds to hit, and if you couldn't use the numerous methods of evasion then you were probs *** tbh. It should be undodgable again.
OR.
Deal execute damage, but instead of 300 under 25, it'd ramp slowly up to 100% extra at 25%, starting from full health. i.e. at 62.5 it'd deal 50% extra damage. This is of course instead of the current power lash damage increase.
Remember, not only do DKs have the shittest class based defense in the game, [Passive tankiness comes to worse than minor protection, wings is awful, maim is good, but hardly unique] the shittest mobility, one of the (this patch) worst mag sustains, but the worst finishing too. Its not like everything else shines above all either, CC is good, but sorcs and NBs have quite comparable levels. Healing is nice, but templar/warden take the cake. Potential burst is very high, but to spec for the ZOS approved DK defense, block, you lose a lot of it.
Pretty much any kind of execute would push dks to top far above all other classes...
Dks have the shittiest defense in the game. Did you forget that they make the best tanks in the game? Maybe they dont have a mechanic like shieldstacking or cloaking, but they surely have better defense than templars...which also has less damage than dks.
They have the worst class defense for PvP. The reason they are the best tanks is the support. Igneous is a group shield, chains exists, engulfing flames exist and they have. The offstat sustain they have is really high even of not specced into.
Templar has better defense. Similar levels of mitigation, but a better (but still weak) class defense in purge.
Why do you think so many run healing ward as their only defense, no block, no wings? Because the others suck. Now how drop purge?
Templars problems are all around.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭A direct damage skill execute won't ever work on a MagDK. Whip hits for a similar amount of damage as an execute (assuming its not super low, at which point they will be finished either way) and the class relies a little more on pressure. As such, bars are cramped as all hell.
A passive one would also be a bit cheesy, something like implosion would be RNG, something like DW slaughter would ramp DPS up higher. So back to the recently gutted power lash.
Its unique, its not spammable, it requires 3 gcds to hit, and if you couldn't use the numerous methods of evasion then you were probs *** tbh. It should be undodgable again.
OR.
Deal execute damage, but instead of 300 under 25, it'd ramp slowly up to 100% extra at 25%, starting from full health. i.e. at 62.5 it'd deal 50% extra damage. This is of course instead of the current power lash damage increase.
Remember, not only do DKs have the shittest class based defense in the game, [Passive tankiness comes to worse than minor protection, wings is awful, maim is good, but hardly unique] the shittest mobility, one of the (this patch) worst mag sustains, but the worst finishing too. Its not like everything else shines above all either, CC is good, but sorcs and NBs have quite comparable levels. Healing is nice, but templar/warden take the cake. Potential burst is very high, but to spec for the ZOS approved DK defense, block, you lose a lot of it.
Pretty much any kind of execute would push dks to top far above all other classes...
Dks have the shittiest defense in the game. Did you forget that they make the best tanks in the game? Maybe they dont have a mechanic like shieldstacking or cloaking, but they surely have better defense than templars...which also has less damage than dks.
They have the worst class defense for PvP. The reason they are the best tanks is the support. Igneous is a group shield, chains exists, engulfing flames exist and they have. The offstat sustain they have is really high even of not specced into.
Templar has better defense. Similar levels of mitigation, but a better (but still weak) class defense in purge.
Why do you think so many run healing ward as their only defense, no block, no wings? Because the others suck. Now how drop purge?
Templars problems are all around.
the dks running with destro/restro and healing ward on backbar also run the light armor shield, so they try to play some shieldstacking defense mechanic similar to nbs or magdens. purge and healing of the templars dont count as "defenseive mechanic", it is healing and thats a difference. regarding that, templars have less defense than any other class and dks at least can somehow have sustain blocking, while blocking isnt even possible on templars thanks to a channeled spammable.0 -
coplannb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »I don't care what the plebs say it's unfair that dk is the only class with no execute hack they gave sorcs two of them at least give us one!
Dude warden also deos not have execute. Scorer does not have a spammable skill . DKs has best spammable in the game. Can you trade execute for spammable flame lash ?
Dont post something which not even a issue.
Warden does have an execute (bear ultimate) But I agree that it’s not effective in a PVP enviornment. Mag wardens could use a better execute.
Spammable attacks do not equal an execute. All stam builds have weapon spammables AND executes. That’s comparing apples to oranges.
amazing how many people dont realize the bears special attack is an execute
yup, my mag Wardens bear crit for 50K yesterday. my DK looks like -_-max level: mDK, stamBlade, stamSorc, magPlar, mDen, stamDen, magBlade, stamCro
ESO+
# of mules: 4 (FULL)
maxed bank: FULL -_-
Stop the grind! Get rid of stupid events and daily-quest gallore. Get rid of "have a chance of 1 in a million to get a piece of 1 in 30 to get a stupid motif or pet... wtf..."
And at this point just remove all classes and have everyone choose their set of skills. then balance accordingly to skills always used vs. skills never used.0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A direct damage skill execute won't ever work on a MagDK. Whip hits for a similar amount of damage as an execute (assuming its not super low, at which point they will be finished either way) and the class relies a little more on pressure. As such, bars are cramped as all hell.
A passive one would also be a bit cheesy, something like implosion would be RNG, something like DW slaughter would ramp DPS up higher. So back to the recently gutted power lash.
Its unique, its not spammable, it requires 3 gcds to hit, and if you couldn't use the numerous methods of evasion then you were probs *** tbh. It should be undodgable again.
OR.
Deal execute damage, but instead of 300 under 25, it'd ramp slowly up to 100% extra at 25%, starting from full health. i.e. at 62.5 it'd deal 50% extra damage. This is of course instead of the current power lash damage increase.
Remember, not only do DKs have the shittest class based defense in the game, [Passive tankiness comes to worse than minor protection, wings is awful, maim is good, but hardly unique] the shittest mobility, one of the (this patch) worst mag sustains, but the worst finishing too. Its not like everything else shines above all either, CC is good, but sorcs and NBs have quite comparable levels. Healing is nice, but templar/warden take the cake. Potential burst is very high, but to spec for the ZOS approved DK defense, block, you lose a lot of it.
Pretty much any kind of execute would push dks to top far above all other classes...
Dks have the shittiest defense in the game. Did you forget that they make the best tanks in the game? Maybe they dont have a mechanic like shieldstacking or cloaking, but they surely have better defense than templars...which also has less damage than dks.
They have the worst class defense for PvP. The reason they are the best tanks is the support. Igneous is a group shield, chains exists, engulfing flames exist and they have. The offstat sustain they have is really high even of not specced into.
Templar has better defense. Similar levels of mitigation, but a better (but still weak) class defense in purge.
Why do you think so many run healing ward as their only defense, no block, no wings? Because the others suck. Now how drop purge?
Templars problems are all around.
the dks running with destro/restro and healing ward on backbar also run the light armor shield, so they try to play some shieldstacking defense mechanic similar to nbs or magdens. purge and healing of the templars dont count as "defenseive mechanic", it is healing and thats a difference. regarding that, templars have less defense than any other class and dks at least can somehow have sustain blocking, while blocking isnt even possible on templars thanks to a channeled spammable.
@Checkmath
If you're running destro/resto on your mDK- you're not doing a lot blocking. Blocking is a mechanic of SnB mDK builds. The same can be said with a high damage Templar vs a BlazePlar. BlazePlars will do a lot of blocking while tanking more enemies (trying to get them to surround the blazeplar for that burst).
It all depends on their playstyle. As for arguing that an mDK shouldn't get an execute because they're "tanky"- you should hand that memo to the Devs... because the other classes definitely have the ability to be tanky and/or mitigate damage. Even a BlazePlar can slot their execute to finish off enemies...Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren1 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We just need an execute in the destro staff line (replace that useless impulse, IMO). The stam classes that dont have an execute get it from weapon abilities (reverse slice, poison injection, and whirlwind), magicka characters dont have that option.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Savos_Saren wrote: »A direct damage skill execute won't ever work on a MagDK. Whip hits for a similar amount of damage as an execute (assuming its not super low, at which point they will be finished either way) and the class relies a little more on pressure. As such, bars are cramped as all hell.
A passive one would also be a bit cheesy, something like implosion would be RNG, something like DW slaughter would ramp DPS up higher. So back to the recently gutted power lash.
Its unique, its not spammable, it requires 3 gcds to hit, and if you couldn't use the numerous methods of evasion then you were probs *** tbh. It should be undodgable again.
OR.
Deal execute damage, but instead of 300 under 25, it'd ramp slowly up to 100% extra at 25%, starting from full health. i.e. at 62.5 it'd deal 50% extra damage. This is of course instead of the current power lash damage increase.
Remember, not only do DKs have the shittest class based defense in the game, [Passive tankiness comes to worse than minor protection, wings is awful, maim is good, but hardly unique] the shittest mobility, one of the (this patch) worst mag sustains, but the worst finishing too. Its not like everything else shines above all either, CC is good, but sorcs and NBs have quite comparable levels. Healing is nice, but templar/warden take the cake. Potential burst is very high, but to spec for the ZOS approved DK defense, block, you lose a lot of it.
Pretty much any kind of execute would push dks to top far above all other classes...
Dks have the shittiest defense in the game. Did you forget that they make the best tanks in the game? Maybe they dont have a mechanic like shieldstacking or cloaking, but they surely have better defense than templars...which also has less damage than dks.
They have the worst class defense for PvP. The reason they are the best tanks is the support. Igneous is a group shield, chains exists, engulfing flames exist and they have. The offstat sustain they have is really high even of not specced into.
Templar has better defense. Similar levels of mitigation, but a better (but still weak) class defense in purge.
Why do you think so many run healing ward as their only defense, no block, no wings? Because the others suck. Now how drop purge?
Templars problems are all around.
the dks running with destro/restro and healing ward on backbar also run the light armor shield, so they try to play some shieldstacking defense mechanic similar to nbs or magdens. purge and healing of the templars dont count as "defenseive mechanic", it is healing and thats a difference. regarding that, templars have less defense than any other class and dks at least can somehow have sustain blocking, while blocking isnt even possible on templars thanks to a channeled spammable.
@Checkmath
If you're running destro/resto on your mDK- you're not doing a lot blocking. Blocking is a mechanic of SnB mDK builds. The same can be said with a high damage Templar vs a BlazePlar. BlazePlars will do a lot of blocking while tanking more enemies (trying to get them to surround the blazeplar for that burst).
It all depends on their playstyle. As for arguing that an mDK shouldn't get an execute because they're "tanky"- you should hand that memo to the Devs... because the other classes definitely have the ability to be tanky and/or mitigate damage. Even a BlazePlar can slot their execute to finish off enemies...
@Savos_Saren
I never said, that dks shouldnt have an execute because they are tanky. i never said that and will never say that. what i said, is that a dk has better defense mechanism with blocking than a templar has, since templars have no stamina restoring passives.
you are right, i said dks shouldnt have an execute. but that has nothing to do with his ability to tank, otherwise templars shouldnt have an execute, because they can heal. in my opinion dks do not need one, because they have superior damage to other classes, especially damage over time abilities. an execute would make dks dps parses only more superior to othes. in my previous posts in this thread i explained, why a passive execute based on fire damage or one that increases dot damage is a bad idea and would be overperforming. so in my opinion only an active skill with execute function would make sense. but the dks skillbar probably is already crowded, so even that would make an execute ability pretty much senseless.
dont get me wrong pls, but i am surely not supporting the idea, that dks only should tank and templars only should heal. you should know that already
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