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The Good and the Bad Strategy

Iskras
Iskras
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The good and the bad strategy

I will illustrate here two distinct situations, two distinct moments, two different time zones. Idea is debating strategy.

In the first images, AD with a population inferior to EP and DC, conquering, literally, considerable part of the map.

In the second situation, AD with the same population of EP / DC and literally losing almost the entire map except for Bleakers (?!?).

https://imgur.com/a/KaHRHd6

- For me it is more than obvious that we have two different ideas of game, one in a time, another in another time. It would be good if we kept a certain constancy, a certain 'regularity' and ideas about a campaign that, apparently, tends to be one more disaster carried out by AD in a certain time zone.
  • mikegundy
    mikegundy
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    Ya iskra, I agree. AD is a really bad faction.You should swap to EP and play with me.
    Gundysorc - AR50

    GM of Hysteria
  • Iskras
    Iskras
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    I try to understand what it takes to some to catch Bleakers and ASH at the same time as it loses absolutely the entire map. Who has the strength to catch Bleakers and ASH, in theory, has the strength to resist in 1 keep, for example, Fare (opens two gates). But I can not understand this logic of wanting to make a whole faction bad for selfishness.
  • Anazasi
    Anazasi
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    Its really simple. Organized groups + quality of player
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    Did NI and TKG go back to DC ?
  • Iskras
    Iskras
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    No no, still in AD. TKG are runing right now in AD.
  • Vilestride
    Vilestride
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    Wasn't winning last campaign supposed to mean the end of the 'AD is a bad faction' posts? we know guys, stop repeating yourselves.
    Edited by Vilestride on April 21, 2018 10:13PM
  • Iskras
    Iskras
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    I am very sorry to inform, but whoever won the campaign for AD was exclusively the people of Ocean time zone, TKG and RAM were ahead. In the US time zone the AD carried out the worst scores, the biggest losses. Literally, we lost the entire map on absolutely every day and more than once (US time zone). Unfortunately there seem to be different conceptions of the campaign involved.

    It is sad, it is very bad to see my faction be ruined daily by a certain idea which, in my view, in my view, is extremely selfish.

    The situation repeats itself now in this campaign. In the US time zone, even with the favorable queue, we lost everything. In the ocean time zone, with queue against us (we are a minority) we got our best results. This has to do with strategy, with campaign design.

    (just to clarify: i talk about time, not about country's)
    Edited by Iskras on April 22, 2018 12:55AM
  • Goshua
    Goshua
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    There is no AP to be made if a group hangs about with the bulk of its Faction, PUG's and solo's in particular.

    What is desired by especially AP hungry groups is later wiping these rich targets after they have farmed your faction for some time. Of course not wanting to play in a lag thick environment is also a motivation, distracting as many enemies elsewhere is also a feasible strat. Add those three things to guild pride and to an extent ego's and plain old trolol's, org. groups will create a skill/coordination vacuum behind them, it seems mostly on AD and to an extent DC, time dependent.

    (..'then we fill that vacuum, as popular war advances, peace gets closer'..)

    It's no one's fault, its the way eso pvp works, as intended obviously.. that and you take keeps, don't defend, leave that to randoms who embarrass themselves by even bother trying to defend a home keep when the points and the rest of their faction are re-taking one instead. And i get it, no one like their group being steam rolled by either a better group or larger numbers, that is fun for the first time, maybe the second, after that it falls in the definition of stupid..doing the same thing, making the same mistakes..

    So perhaps it is I who is stupid and just not thinking? hard to not be a hypocrite at times

    rant rave blah etc

    Edited by Goshua on April 22, 2018 6:46AM
  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    If it makes you feel any better Isk, AD has the most entertaining zone chat. Electric Pickle and a few others had me laughing out of my seat even when we got double teamed and pushed out of nearly everything today!

    AD had some of the best fights I’ve ever had the pleasure of taking part in. Win or lose I had a good time.
    Edited by Minalan on April 22, 2018 6:47AM
  • Anrose
    Anrose
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    Minalan wrote: »
    If it makes you feel any better Isk, AD has the most entertaining zone chat. Electric Pickle and a few others had me laughing out of my seat even when we got double teamed and pushed out of nearly everything today!

    AD had some of the best fights I’ve ever had the pleasure of taking part in. Win or lose I had a good time.

    AD has the most entertaining zone chat that does not involve Publius.
  • Iskras
    Iskras
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    Minalan wrote: »
    If it makes you feel any better Isk, AD has the most entertaining zone chat. Electric Pickle and a few others had me laughing out of my seat even when we got double teamed and pushed out of nearly everything today!

    AD had some of the best fights I’ve ever had the pleasure of taking part in. Win or lose I had a good time.

    Agree. Bad to me, dont understand many things in english or dont know when something is serious or not. Yestarday the zone chat was fun.
  • TheValar85
    TheValar85
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    is this on EU or NA?

    Because on EU teh sheet fest around in cyrodiil is very shady in now days, "the self proclaimed well organised pro players Ball groups" united togetehr with DC and EP are fighting agasint one fraction basicly. Thats not a fair AVA game play at all. So i wouldn't be proud for that in teh name of Dc and EP players. not to mention teh spying, the constant swapping between fractions. " thanx teh divines ZOS finaly did somethign about that" Alot of factor is effecting the ongoing campins in Cyrdoiil.
    GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERP
    GM Of THe Alessia Dynasty PVP Guild
    GM Of The Guardians Of MiddleEarth
    My Smiling Emperor Profile Picture: https://ibb.co/bsOM6n
  • Iskras
    Iskras
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    Purple team? No, AD fault!

    Today, again, AD staged another disaster. Conscious of this, AD insists on bad strategies, despite appeals in the chat zone.

    EP made the Emperor - congratulations again to friend Mike. For 'dethrone', AD had the option Sejanus / BRK / Alessia (finalize). DC had the option Aleswell and ASH.

    DC advances on ASH, Nikel and ROE - good move.

    What did AD do? It was for Nikel and ROE, thus, calling all DCs against AD as well as EP (they stood for EMP). The 'purple' team is formed. Again, AD being massacred by two teams at once.

    I had insisted that they were not for Nikel and ROE and even so, AD was. He lost Niko and earned ROE for a few minutes - but then lost to DC.

    In short, AD was again massacred. Our score drops day after day. Follow the AD (some group leaders) insisting on bad strategies.
    Edited by Iskras on April 23, 2018 6:28PM
  • Agrippa_Invisus
    Agrippa_Invisus
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    No one should have to apologize for or justify retaking a home keep, no matter what color it is. If an AD group wants Roe back, then that's their prerogative.

    If Roe's blue, that's on AD for not defending it and on DC for pushing it instead of the faction with the throne.

    If AD wants to leave points on DC's board while pushing to dethrone -- leaving Roe or Brindle blue -- then that's just long term strategic failure to plan for the scoreboard instead of the ego project of dethroning.
    Edited by Agrippa_Invisus on April 23, 2018 6:36PM
    Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
    DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
    Once a General, now a Citizen
    Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
    For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!
  • Iskras
    Iskras
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    No one should have to apologize for or justify retaking a home keep, no matter what color it is. If an AD group wants Roe back, then that's their prerogative.

    If Roe's blue, that's on AD for not defending it and on DC for pushing it instead of the faction with the throne.

    If AD wants to leave points on DC's board while pushing to dethrone -- leaving Roe or Brindle blue -- then that's just long term strategic failure to plan for the scoreboard instead of the ego project of dethroning.

    When you do not think strategically, apologizing or not for anything, it makes no difference in a score that can only be summed up in one word: shame. This is the AD Score for several days.
  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    Iskras wrote: »
    No one should have to apologize for or justify retaking a home keep, no matter what color it is. If an AD group wants Roe back, then that's their prerogative.

    If Roe's blue, that's on AD for not defending it and on DC for pushing it instead of the faction with the throne.

    If AD wants to leave points on DC's board while pushing to dethrone -- leaving Roe or Brindle blue -- then that's just long term strategic failure to plan for the scoreboard instead of the ego project of dethroning.

    When you do not think strategically, apologizing or not for anything, it makes no difference in a score that can only be summed up in one word: shame. This is the AD Score for several days.

    I usually agree with you Isk, but not on this one.

    DC is first place, so pushing them is probably the best move, even if there’s an EP Emperor. I wouldn’t push EP until AD has Ash, Brindle, and the hordes of blue zergs stop PVDooring Roe.

    Dethroning EP is doing DC a bigger favor than AD. We are in last place, F*** DC, let them deal with every EP at Chalamo with more health while we catch up at their expense.

    Edit: The objective should be to lower the distance between us and first place. We’re not fighting for second.
    Edited by Minalan on April 23, 2018 9:25PM
  • Agrippa_Invisus
    Agrippa_Invisus
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    Minalan wrote: »

    Edit: The objective should be to lower the distance between us and first place. We’re not fighting for second.

    Bingo. This is a truth that gets ignored too often. You don't get into 1st by taking points away from second place. You only make it easier for the 1st place team to retain their lead as they happily gang up on 2nd place with you. You get back into competitiveness by mostly defending against 2nd place (occasionally grabbing a keep here and there) and then viciously gating the 1st place team repeatedly, making it so hard for them to hold their inner 3 keeps they have no chance of holding their outer keeps.

    The only time you "settle" for second is when mathematically eliminated from 1st.

    Then you grind whichever team is the threat to keep you from second into the dirt. You can give up all six home keeps to first place at that point if you own all the other team's home keeps and have them gated and stuck defending their scrolls (a strategy that we employed last summer when AD won in June -- last couple days we lived in DC's back yard, even if Arrius was yellow and stayed out of the cellar).
    Edited by Agrippa_Invisus on April 23, 2018 9:54PM
    Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
    DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
    Once a General, now a Citizen
    Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
    For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!
  • Iskras
    Iskras
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    Minalan wrote: »
    Iskras wrote: »
    No one should have to apologize for or justify retaking a home keep, no matter what color it is. If an AD group wants Roe back, then that's their prerogative.

    If Roe's blue, that's on AD for not defending it and on DC for pushing it instead of the faction with the throne.

    If AD wants to leave points on DC's board while pushing to dethrone -- leaving Roe or Brindle blue -- then that's just long term strategic failure to plan for the scoreboard instead of the ego project of dethroning.

    When you do not think strategically, apologizing or not for anything, it makes no difference in a score that can only be summed up in one word: shame. This is the AD Score for several days.

    I usually agree with you Isk, but not on this one.

    DC is first place, so pushing them is probably the best move, even if there’s an EP Emperor. I wouldn’t push EP until AD has Ash, Brindle, and the hordes of blue zergs stop PVDooring Roe.

    Dethroning EP is doing DC a bigger favor than AD. We are in last place, F*** DC, let them deal with every EP at Chalamo with more health while we catch up at their expense.

    Edit: The objective should be to lower the distance between us and first place. We’re not fighting for second.

    I do not think I understood very well. Problem, in my view, is to call DC against us because they feel threatened in ASH (home DC). In general, we do not let DC fight EP because we are always - daily - threatening ASH (home DC). We ended up pushing two factions against us.
  • Syncronaut
    Syncronaut
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    Map wise Ad is having huge problems. 1.st being 2 spawntowns to close to scrool keeps. Red and blue only have to be carefull abauth Bruma, but even there terran is very different making traveling to gates much slower.

    Ad keeps are very far apart, Blue keeps are very close and you can travel to each other 2 times quicker, red keeps while having longer to travel also have a lot of things in the way that protects them.
    North keep has natural wall that creates a bottleneck for blues and they barely attack there. Chenydinhall with its lakes preverts direct rush to last 2 keeps, while Ad ones can be rushed in straight line. Only good 1 defense spot that Ad has is 1 bridge (wich will get skiped by smarter players as they can simply just go down on lower ones and attack keeps in back.

    In other words...terrain is Ad huge problem.

    Also worst part Ad always get attacked by 2 sides on same time (while they ignore each other on north).
  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    Iskras wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    Iskras wrote: »
    No one should have to apologize for or justify retaking a home keep, no matter what color it is. If an AD group wants Roe back, then that's their prerogative.

    If Roe's blue, that's on AD for not defending it and on DC for pushing it instead of the faction with the throne.

    If AD wants to leave points on DC's board while pushing to dethrone -- leaving Roe or Brindle blue -- then that's just long term strategic failure to plan for the scoreboard instead of the ego project of dethroning.

    When you do not think strategically, apologizing or not for anything, it makes no difference in a score that can only be summed up in one word: shame. This is the AD Score for several days.

    I usually agree with you Isk, but not on this one.

    DC is first place, so pushing them is probably the best move, even if there’s an EP Emperor. I wouldn’t push EP until AD has Ash, Brindle, and the hordes of blue zergs stop PVDooring Roe.

    Dethroning EP is doing DC a bigger favor than AD. We are in last place, F*** DC, let them deal with every EP at Chalamo with more health while we catch up at their expense.

    Edit: The objective should be to lower the distance between us and first place. We’re not fighting for second.

    I do not think I understood very well. Problem, in my view, is to call DC against us because they feel threatened in ASH (home DC). In general, we do not let DC fight EP because we are always - daily - threatening ASH (home DC). We ended up pushing two factions against us.

    To win AD needs to take Ash and Brindle from DC. Then we raid DC resources and keeps at Aleswell, Warden, and Rayles constantly. We must threaten to win.

    DC is in first place, they are the most important target.

    The EP Emperor is a DC problem. Not AD problem. Let DC fix it. AD has nothing to lose in last place, DC has first place to lose to EP.

  • Satiar
    Satiar
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    Blue always had the issue of trying to take AD stuff instead of dethroning. They did it when I played on DC and it was infuriating.
    Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
    Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost



  • keto3000
    keto3000
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    Syncronaut wrote: »
    Map wise Ad is having huge problems. 1.st being 2 spawntowns to close to scrool keeps. Red and blue only have to be carefull abauth Bruma, but even there terran is very different making traveling to gates much slower.

    Ad keeps are very far apart, Blue keeps are very close and you can travel to each other 2 times quicker, red keeps while having longer to travel also have a lot of things in the way that protects them.
    North keep has natural wall that creates a bottleneck for blues and they barely attack there. Chenydinhall with its lakes preverts direct rush to last 2 keeps, while Ad ones can be rushed in straight line. Only good 1 defense spot that Ad has is 1 bridge (wich will get skiped by smarter players as they can simply just go down on lower ones and attack keeps in back.

    In other words...terrain is Ad huge problem.

    Also worst part AD always get attacked by 2 sides on same time (while they ignore each other on north).


    While I definitely agree with all of these points, I strongly feel that AD should use better strategies & use our current map terrain to our advantage--better than we tend to do now. AD tends to be lax when enemy takes single resources in our back keeps.
    1) DC & EP react much faster to retake their home resources.
    2) AD tends to take keeps, then move on to next objective. We tend to lack a good defense of the keep after we take it.
    3) DC/EP are good at sending small, strong teams to take our individual back keep resources, AD tends to lack on this!
    4) IMO, since we are hindered by Vlast & Crops towns being so close to our keeps, AD SHOULD ALWAYS work to keep Vlastarus, Nikel & Sejanus (& Crops) in AD hands. I've played many nights when DC/EP takes Vlast and no-one, even the big guilds online rush to retake it. Usual result is enemy gets to hv free spawn spot and starts taking resources at Brindle, Black Boot, Roe, & Fare! We tend usually respond too late.

    IMO, until/if the map ever gets balanced, we must deal more effectively with the current terrain issue as it is. Keep all towns, keeps, resources & outposts from Nikel through Sejanus yellow as a constant goal. React much faster when enemies take any of them.

    AD won the last Vivec campaign recently because we regularly employed the strategies that I've mentioned above AND the big AD guilds bickered less amongst themselves while online and worked more as a faction. GOOD FUN! Hope we can do it again :)
    “The point of power is always in the present moment.”

    ― Louise L. Hay
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