The PTS Scam (AKA THIS ISN’T A CANNED RESPONSE)

zParallaxz · April 2018

For all the other players who have been here as long as I have on this game, we know about this ploy of PTS. Time and time again when a new update is preparing to come out and people ask for balance changes, the developers say to go on the pts and give feed back. However, many players and myself are tired of the bs shtick year after year for we all know no major change will come in the following pts updates after the initial one. I a dk main knows that come this Monday, will be no immediate changes like added snare removal to wings or a rework of passives that serve no real purpose. The Pts was and always will be a way to find and address bugs before live (even if a majority still make it out). I get embarrassed by Zos by the class feed back threads they make with some very good player feedback about needed changes, only for ZOS to go with its original idea it already intended for and them repeatedly saying wait for next patch. To sum it up there will be no significant change on the next pts I.e stun going back to crystal frag, snare removal on wings, etc.

Ley · April 2018

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

JamuThatsWho · April 2018

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

Seconded. Couldn't have said it any better.

Guarlet · April 2018

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

Mm, yeah. Usually people use the word "scam" to imply that the other party is purposely doing something for some nefarious purpose. I'm pretty sure that's not the case here lol. It is simply not possible for ZOS to incorporate all players' feedback, and they also have their own reasoning for changing things or keeping things the way they are (that we may or may not agree with, but that's another topic).

TL;DR it's not a scam.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

You assume I’m the only one who wants these simple minded changes. A large majority of magdks want snare immunity on wings in addition to snare removal, a large majority or sorc want the stun on frags back. I get what your saying I.e someone may want something that’s ludicrous to happen to their class and the can’t really happen. But common sense buffs that are walked over Zos is unacceptable. Why repeat the same process of lip service year after year, telling people if u want change go on the pts. Better yet let’s have class representatives so we can now pool the blame on someone unsuspecting.

Cpt_Teemo · April 2018

Just like how they forgot to change the estate from 1 gold to 1m, and allowed people to keep it even though most thought it was an exploit?

Kiralyn2000 · April 2018

Guarlet wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

Mm, yeah. Usually people use the word "scam" to imply that the other party is purposely doing something for some nefarious purpose. I'm pretty sure that's not the case here lol. It is simply not possible for ZOS to incorporate all players' feedback, and they also have their own reasoning for changing things or keeping things the way they are (that we may or may not agree with, but that's another topic).

TL;DR it's not a scam.

Yep. "The PTS Disappointment" would be accurate. "We find all these things on the PTS that we'd like changed, but they don't do it. Boo, hiss, disappointing!"

(and it definitely is disappointing when it's some bug or error, not just a balance or content issue you disagree with.)

zParallaxz · April 2018

By your logic of letting them make major changes as they want it, I bet I won’t see the 12% health recovery passive in the draconic power skill change in the next two years, like wtf.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Yes it’s very impossible to make game changing mechanics (stun back on crystal frag) in a one week time frame. I wonder if any major game could make such a major change in a week. Hold on let me put my phone down, some is trying to snipe me in Fortnite.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Guarlet wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

Mm, yeah. Usually people use the word "scam" to imply that the other party is purposely doing something for some nefarious purpose. I'm pretty sure that's not the case here lol. It is simply not possible for ZOS to incorporate all players' feedback, and they also have their own reasoning for changing things or keeping things the way they are (that we may or may not agree with, but that's another topic).

TL;DR it's not a scam.

The use of the word scam in the topic is a figure of speech lol.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Guarlet wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

Mm, yeah. Usually people use the word "scam" to imply that the other party is purposely doing something for some nefarious purpose. I'm pretty sure that's not the case here lol. It is simply not possible for ZOS to incorporate all players' feedback, and they also have their own reasoning for changing things or keeping things the way they are (that we may or may not agree with, but that's another topic).

TL;DR it's not a scam.

I don’t know why gamers would act like this, the GAME IS FOR US, not for god forsaken Zos. They need to make changes that appeal to US, not them. No other major game would make changes ” to meet their vision”, they make games to appeal to the customer.

jedtb16_ESO · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

By your logic of letting them make major changes as they want it, I bet I won’t see the 12% health recovery passive in the draconic power skill change in the next two years, like wtf.

um... well, it is their game. they have the right to make whatever changes they see fit.

you agreed to it with the eula remember?

Narvuntien · April 2018

We are finding bugs, plenty of bugs.. those bugs need to be fixed before release.
Its not about us in sandbox mode its about helping them provide the best possibly product.

*Quotes self*

Narvuntien wrote: »

If you made a game and whenever you made a change at least 50% of your players hate you.. no matter what you do. You learn to ignore them. If you tried to please everyone you'd quickly go insane (see all politicians)

People need to learn to give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Part of giving effective criticism is that you have to show that you are in line with their vision but want them to achieve their goals more effectively.

"I see what you are trying to do but I think if you did this it will be more effective". If all you do is say "NO! change it back! right now!" you're a hater and will be dismissed.

VaranisArano · April 2018

Major changes probably won't happen.

I want simple changes, like being able to quickslot the Psijic Order map so I dont have to check my inventory every single time I want to check a rift location.

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2018

Players use PTS to test out things they want to know about and give feedback based on that interest and view point.

ZOS uses PTS to test out mechanics and changes theyve already deemed a must. While some things will need to be adjusted as the planned changes did not work the way they wanted. The absolute vast majority will stay as its seen on PTS.

PTS for ZOS is more about making sure things run smoothly and behave the way they intended than for players to have personal impacts on the way the game operates.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Players use PTS to test out things they want to know about and give feedback based on that interest and view point.

ZOS uses PTS to test out mechanics and changes theyve already deemed a must. While some things will need to be adjusted as the planned changes did not work the way they wanted. The absolute vast majority will stay as its seen on PTS.

PTS for ZOS is more about making sure things run smoothly and behave the way they intended than for players to have personal impacts on the way the game operates.

You are 100% correct, the problem is they haven’t conveyed that idea to a good amount of players. They have constantly responded with if you want changes make sure to log into the pts and give feed back.

Turelus · April 2018

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

QFT.

I honestly don't understand why people find this so hard to understand.

rfennell_ESO · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

For all the other players who have been here as long as I have on this game, we know about this ploy of PTS. Time and time again when a new update is preparing to come out and people ask for balance changes, the developers say to go on the pts and give feed back. However, many players and myself are tired of the bs shtick year after year for we all know no major change will come in the following pts updates after the initial one. I a dk main knows that come this Monday, will be no immediate changes like added snare removal to wings or a rework of passives that serve no real purpose. The Pts was and always will be a way to find and address bugs before live (even if a majority still make it out). I get embarrassed by Zos by the class feed back threads they make with some very good player feedback about needed changes, only for ZOS to go with its original idea it already intended for and them repeatedly saying wait for next patch. To sum it up there will be no significant change on the next pts I.e stun going back to crystal frag, snare removal on wings, etc.

The problem is that for every player that gives good feedback and good input, there are those that don't or just put things under their hat to abuse.

How to decipher player intent must be a problem. Any time input is in existence you have to take it with a grain of salt as most players (like most people) are totally about self interest. Yes, I know there will be the holier than thou righteous types that claim otherwise.. and if there are couple dozen of them I can point you to a couple dozen liars.

The thing most don't get or want to believe is that the pvp testers and hardcore players in pvp are the source of all exploits. There is no way that ZOS is unaware of this as they have banned a great many of them just to have them turn up on new accounts. If your idea is to rely on those players for balance... well, you have strange expectations.

Lastly, for every serious balance issue there is someone pointing out a pet peeve that is a weakness to their playstyle they want eliminated. How exactly does ZOS sift through that mess?

EvilCroc · April 2018

You are wrong. PTS is for playing content before release, not for testing.

Tandor · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

You assume I’m the only one who wants these simple minded changes. A large majority of magdks want snare immunity on wings in addition to snare removal, a large majority or sorc want the stun on frags back. I get what your saying I.e someone may want something that’s ludicrous to happen to their class and the can’t really happen. But common sense buffs that are walked over Zos is unacceptable. Why repeat the same process of lip service year after year, telling people if u want change go on the pts. Better yet let’s have class representatives so we can now pool the blame on someone unsuspecting.

You've polled the playerbase have you?

Changes to one class aren't just to meet the whims of that class. They have to reflect the impact on other classes too, both in relation to PvP and competitive PvE. They also have to fit in with other changes being made as well as complying with the particular vision the developers have for the game in general and that class in particular.

Such major changes aren't what a pre-content release PTS run is about. That's about getting feedback on the specifics of the new content and lesser changes associated with it, as well as picking up bugs, performance issues, exploits and anything else that testers can come up with in a short period of time before it all goes live.

Like @Turelus says, it's hard to understand why people don't get this, and in my view it's also hard to understand why people who think ZOS are wholly incompetent to produce a proper game are still playing ESO.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Tandor wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

You assume I’m the only one who wants these simple minded changes. A large majority of magdks want snare immunity on wings in addition to snare removal, a large majority or sorc want the stun on frags back. I get what your saying I.e someone may want something that’s ludicrous to happen to their class and the can’t really happen. But common sense buffs that are walked over Zos is unacceptable. Why repeat the same process of lip service year after year, telling people if u want change go on the pts. Better yet let’s have class representatives so we can now pool the blame on someone unsuspecting.

You've polled the playerbase have you?

Changes to one class aren't just to meet the whims of that class. They have to reflect the impact on other classes too, both in relation to PvP and competitive PvE. They also have to fit in with other changes being made as well as complying with the particular vision the developers have for the game in general and that class in particular.

Such major changes aren't what a pre-content release PTS run is about. That's about getting feedback on the specifics of the new content and lesser changes associated with it, as well as picking up bugs, performance issues, exploits and anything else that testers can come up with in a short period of time before it all goes live.

Like @Turelus says, it's hard to understand why people don't get this, and in my view it's also hard to understand why people who think ZOS are wholly incompetent to produce a proper game are still playing ESO.

I understand what you are saying but it has been and will probably still be Zos employees saying if you want change, provide feed back and go on the pts. Their mere statement was lip service to keep us from questioning when and why they make balance changes.

Guarlet · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

I don’t know why gamers would act like this, the GAME IS FOR US, not for god forsaken Zos. They need to make changes that appeal to US, not them. No other major game would make changes ” to meet their vision”, they make games to appeal to the customer.

And just what does "the customer" want? In case you haven't noticed, there are loads of people with loads of different opinions who play ESO. They aren't one singular entity. ZOS has to do what they believe is most beneficial in an overall sense (even if we disagree with some of these ideas, as I said above), not cater to the vocal minority all the time. That's just a terrible idea mate. Have you seen some of the threads on these forums...?

zParallaxz · April 2018

Guarlet wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

I don’t know why gamers would act like this, the GAME IS FOR US, not for god forsaken Zos. They need to make changes that appeal to US, not them. No other major game would make changes ” to meet their vision”, they make games to appeal to the customer.

And just what does "the customer" want? In case you haven't noticed, there are loads of people with loads of different opinions who play ESO. They aren't one singular entity. ZOS has to do what they believe is most beneficial in an overall sense (even if we disagree with some of these ideas, as I said above), not cater to the vocal minority all the time. That's just a terrible idea mate. Have you seen some of the threads on these forums...?

Ik what u mean bud but at the same time a lot of games can get the job done no sense why Zos can’t.

rfennell_ESO · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

I don’t know why gamers would act like this, the GAME IS FOR US, not for god forsaken Zos. They need to make changes that appeal to US, not them. No other major game would make changes ” to meet their vision”, they make games to appeal to the customer.

And just what does "the customer" want? In case you haven't noticed, there are loads of people with loads of different opinions who play ESO. They aren't one singular entity. ZOS has to do what they believe is most beneficial in an overall sense (even if we disagree with some of these ideas, as I said above), not cater to the vocal minority all the time. That's just a terrible idea mate. Have you seen some of the threads on these forums...?

Ik what u mean bud but at the same time a lot of games can get the job done no sense why Zos can’t.

Like what games do you think actually get the job of class balance done? WoW has had balance issues (particularly in pvp) for over a decade.

Tandor · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

You assume I’m the only one who wants these simple minded changes. A large majority of magdks want snare immunity on wings in addition to snare removal, a large majority or sorc want the stun on frags back. I get what your saying I.e someone may want something that’s ludicrous to happen to their class and the can’t really happen. But common sense buffs that are walked over Zos is unacceptable. Why repeat the same process of lip service year after year, telling people if u want change go on the pts. Better yet let’s have class representatives so we can now pool the blame on someone unsuspecting.

You've polled the playerbase have you?

Changes to one class aren't just to meet the whims of that class. They have to reflect the impact on other classes too, both in relation to PvP and competitive PvE. They also have to fit in with other changes being made as well as complying with the particular vision the developers have for the game in general and that class in particular.

Such major changes aren't what a pre-content release PTS run is about. That's about getting feedback on the specifics of the new content and lesser changes associated with it, as well as picking up bugs, performance issues, exploits and anything else that testers can come up with in a short period of time before it all goes live.

Like @Turelus says, it's hard to understand why people don't get this, and in my view it's also hard to understand why people who think ZOS are wholly incompetent to produce a proper game are still playing ESO.

I understand what you are saying but it has been and will probably still be Zos employees saying if you want change, provide feed back and go on the pts. Their mere statement was lip service to keep us from questioning when and why they make balance changes.

No, they're simply saying you can play on the PTS and provide feedback and suggested changes to the content that is on there, not that you can use the PTS to suggest wholly separate changes to the overall game and expect them to be implemented as part of a content release in just a few weeks time.

Guarlet · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

I don’t know why gamers would act like this, the GAME IS FOR US, not for god forsaken Zos. They need to make changes that appeal to US, not them. No other major game would make changes ” to meet their vision”, they make games to appeal to the customer.

And just what does "the customer" want? In case you haven't noticed, there are loads of people with loads of different opinions who play ESO. They aren't one singular entity. ZOS has to do what they believe is most beneficial in an overall sense (even if we disagree with some of these ideas, as I said above), not cater to the vocal minority all the time. That's just a terrible idea mate. Have you seen some of the threads on these forums...?

Ik what u mean bud but at the same time a lot of games can get the job done no sense why Zos can’t.

Well, I've played on many, many MMOs. All of them have people who complain about class balance and such things. I've never, ever seen a company that runs a flawlessly balanced MMO or even close, and I don't expect to see one. At this point, I'm pretty sure it just comes with the territory - MMOs are huge, sprawling monsters of code to try to perfectly balance and get right.

So I am pretty curious as to what you had in mind with 'a lot of games.'

zParallaxz · April 2018

Guarlet wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

I don’t know why gamers would act like this, the GAME IS FOR US, not for god forsaken Zos. They need to make changes that appeal to US, not them. No other major game would make changes ” to meet their vision”, they make games to appeal to the customer.

And just what does "the customer" want? In case you haven't noticed, there are loads of people with loads of different opinions who play ESO. They aren't one singular entity. ZOS has to do what they believe is most beneficial in an overall sense (even if we disagree with some of these ideas, as I said above), not cater to the vocal minority all the time. That's just a terrible idea mate. Have you seen some of the threads on these forums...?

Ik what u mean bud but at the same time a lot of games can get the job done no sense why Zos can’t.

Well, I've played on many, many MMOs. All of them have people who complain about class balance and such things. I've never, ever seen a company that runs a flawlessly balanced MMO or even close, and I don't expect to see one. At this point, I'm pretty sure it just comes with the territory - MMOs are huge, sprawling monsters of code to try to perfectly balance and get right.

So I am pretty curious as to what you had in mind with 'a lot of games.'

I said major games, I.e fortnite, overwatch, and even the generic fps cod.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Tandor wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

You assume I’m the only one who wants these simple minded changes. A large majority of magdks want snare immunity on wings in addition to snare removal, a large majority or sorc want the stun on frags back. I get what your saying I.e someone may want something that’s ludicrous to happen to their class and the can’t really happen. But common sense buffs that are walked over Zos is unacceptable. Why repeat the same process of lip service year after year, telling people if u want change go on the pts. Better yet let’s have class representatives so we can now pool the blame on someone unsuspecting.

You've polled the playerbase have you?

Changes to one class aren't just to meet the whims of that class. They have to reflect the impact on other classes too, both in relation to PvP and competitive PvE. They also have to fit in with other changes being made as well as complying with the particular vision the developers have for the game in general and that class in particular.

Such major changes aren't what a pre-content release PTS run is about. That's about getting feedback on the specifics of the new content and lesser changes associated with it, as well as picking up bugs, performance issues, exploits and anything else that testers can come up with in a short period of time before it all goes live.

Like @Turelus says, it's hard to understand why people don't get this, and in my view it's also hard to understand why people who think ZOS are wholly incompetent to produce a proper game are still playing ESO.

I understand what you are saying but it has been and will probably still be Zos employees saying if you want change, provide feed back and go on the pts. Their mere statement was lip service to keep us from questioning when and why they make balance changes.

No, they're simply saying you can play on the PTS and provide feedback and suggested changes to the content that is on there, not that you can use the PTS to suggest wholly separate changes to the overall game and expect them to be implemented as part of a content release in just a few weeks time.

So your saying if we want a rework of wings for one patch then next patch (3-4)months later Zos offers snare removal on wings. We should wait an additional patch (not pts cycle) for the added snare immunity. I get making major changes to balance like an entire rework of a skill like changing a passive, but commen sense stuff like this is ridiculous. Also if we go by this logic why are a majority of class threads talking about changes that aren’t included in pts? This goes back to the idea that ZOS has conveyed the message of pts is for testing content already their not for adding changes to skills or abilities.

Sekero · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

Mm, yeah. Usually people use the word "scam" to imply that the other party is purposely doing something for some nefarious purpose. I'm pretty sure that's not the case here lol. It is simply not possible for ZOS to incorporate all players' feedback, and they also have their own reasoning for changing things or keeping things the way they are (that we may or may not agree with, but that's another topic).

TL;DR it's not a scam.

I don’t know why gamers would act like this, the GAME IS FOR US, not for god forsaken Zos. They need to make changes that appeal to US, not them. No other major game would make changes ” to meet their vision”, they make games to appeal to the customer.

Try EA. They make changes in TOR, sometimes on the fly, because "we're not playing the way they want us to play." That's a quote from a senior dev, btw.

Oakmontowls_ESO · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

I don’t know why gamers would act like this, the GAME IS FOR US, not for god forsaken Zos. They need to make changes that appeal to US, not them. No other major game would make changes ” to meet their vision”, they make games to appeal to the customer.

And just what does "the customer" want? In case you haven't noticed, there are loads of people with loads of different opinions who play ESO. They aren't one singular entity. ZOS has to do what they believe is most beneficial in an overall sense (even if we disagree with some of these ideas, as I said above), not cater to the vocal minority all the time. That's just a terrible idea mate. Have you seen some of the threads on these forums...?

Ik what u mean bud but at the same time a lot of games can get the job done no sense why Zos can’t.

Well, I've played on many, many MMOs. All of them have people who complain about class balance and such things. I've never, ever seen a company that runs a flawlessly balanced MMO or even close, and I don't expect to see one. At this point, I'm pretty sure it just comes with the territory - MMOs are huge, sprawling monsters of code to try to perfectly balance and get right.

So I am pretty curious as to what you had in mind with 'a lot of games.'

I said major games, I.e fortnite, overwatch, and even the generic fps cod.

None of those are mmos and overwatch has it's share of balance problems. Overwatch in particular hasn't changed anything balance wise in their ptr due to player feedback. Pretty much what you see on the test server for overwatch is what will go to the live server.

Tandor · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just because they don't necessarily make the changes that YOU want, doesn't make PTS a scam or less valuable. They've already made the changes they wanted to make, PTS is just there to test those changes, make sure players don't find a way to abuse them that ZOS didn't anticipate, and help to identify some of the bugs before launch. They'll make tweaks based on player feedback but they're not going to rebuild major game mechanics this late before the expansion is released.

You assume I’m the only one who wants these simple minded changes. A large majority of magdks want snare immunity on wings in addition to snare removal, a large majority or sorc want the stun on frags back. I get what your saying I.e someone may want something that’s ludicrous to happen to their class and the can’t really happen. But common sense buffs that are walked over Zos is unacceptable. Why repeat the same process of lip service year after year, telling people if u want change go on the pts. Better yet let’s have class representatives so we can now pool the blame on someone unsuspecting.

You've polled the playerbase have you?

Changes to one class aren't just to meet the whims of that class. They have to reflect the impact on other classes too, both in relation to PvP and competitive PvE. They also have to fit in with other changes being made as well as complying with the particular vision the developers have for the game in general and that class in particular.

Such major changes aren't what a pre-content release PTS run is about. That's about getting feedback on the specifics of the new content and lesser changes associated with it, as well as picking up bugs, performance issues, exploits and anything else that testers can come up with in a short period of time before it all goes live.

Like @Turelus says, it's hard to understand why people don't get this, and in my view it's also hard to understand why people who think ZOS are wholly incompetent to produce a proper game are still playing ESO.

I understand what you are saying but it has been and will probably still be Zos employees saying if you want change, provide feed back and go on the pts. Their mere statement was lip service to keep us from questioning when and why they make balance changes.

No, they're simply saying you can play on the PTS and provide feedback and suggested changes to the content that is on there, not that you can use the PTS to suggest wholly separate changes to the overall game and expect them to be implemented as part of a content release in just a few weeks time.

So your saying if we want a rework of wings for one patch then next patch (3-4)months later Zos offers snare removal on wings. We should wait an additional patch (not pts cycle) for the added snare immunity. I get making major changes to balance like an entire rework of a skill like changing a passive, but commen sense stuff like this is ridiculous. Also if we go by this logic why are a majority of class threads talking about changes that aren’t included in pts? This goes back to the idea that ZOS has conveyed the message of pts is for testing content already their not for adding changes to skills or abilities.

No, that's not what I said at all.