To ZOS - Please allow a console PTS so we too can participate
SmellyUnlimited
✭✭✭✭
There is a vibrant community of players on console that would like to also have a voice in upcoming in-game changes. Console games regularly have Beta testing periods, so the framework is in place.
Further, the issue of add-on’s needs to be addressed. While the same method of integrating them will of course be different, and it will have to be in-line with the console company’s rules and regs, but both of those are things fairly surmountable.
You could offer them as a bundle pack with ESO+, or allow a download of apps through the PSN or XBL store (this already occurs with numerous games).
But...what about the fact that these are player-made and not ZOS property?
Therein lies the rub. However. If an owner of intellectual property allows its free use to integrate with proprietary software absent a formalized contract, then the intellectual property can be openly-sourced, reproduced, or adopted without prejudice. This is a fundamental rule of intellectual property law. So things like Skyshards/lorebook, Combat metrics, skill use timers, status effect notifications; all of these are freely open to any user. Aside from packaging the content in a method by which it can be added to the existing ESO console network, there is no licensing or trademark violations.
One last note: Of all the ZOS-hosted player events (like the pre-PTS invitation), no console player has ever been invited. I think there are plenty of console theorycrafters that are just as knowledgeable on the game, and can provide just as valuable feedback, albeit from a slightly different perspective from PC.
Thank you for the fun game, and hope to see it grow and improve with every new iteration.
Further, the issue of add-on’s needs to be addressed. While the same method of integrating them will of course be different, and it will have to be in-line with the console company’s rules and regs, but both of those are things fairly surmountable.
You could offer them as a bundle pack with ESO+, or allow a download of apps through the PSN or XBL store (this already occurs with numerous games).
But...what about the fact that these are player-made and not ZOS property?
Therein lies the rub. However. If an owner of intellectual property allows its free use to integrate with proprietary software absent a formalized contract, then the intellectual property can be openly-sourced, reproduced, or adopted without prejudice. This is a fundamental rule of intellectual property law. So things like Skyshards/lorebook, Combat metrics, skill use timers, status effect notifications; all of these are freely open to any user. Aside from packaging the content in a method by which it can be added to the existing ESO console network, there is no licensing or trademark violations.
One last note: Of all the ZOS-hosted player events (like the pre-PTS invitation), no console player has ever been invited. I think there are plenty of console theorycrafters that are just as knowledgeable on the game, and can provide just as valuable feedback, albeit from a slightly different perspective from PC.
Thank you for the fun game, and hope to see it grow and improve with every new iteration.
DO. NOT. WIPE. (in game OR out!)
7
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In the model ZOS chooses, its not up to them...
*Add-ons aren't "needed" they are only wanted by some....I personally prefer the clean console system vs the PC experiences where I'm expected to have this or that in group play.
Now considering xbox one offers a preview program......another form could be possible whereas Battlefield had a console PTS for an existing game, it would need to be a different thing entirely for xbox one at least.
Not sure that's worth their efforts tho cause its not really that effective for console anyways as the PC results still end in bugs.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on April 19, 2018 8:12PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭But consoles often have entirely different bugs that are exploited or bugs that cause game crashing issues that could have been avoided had we been afforded the chance to test OUR version as well
I would actually pay to have access to a Console PTS in order to assist identifying bugs and exploits in the game.
We often have serperate issues that have created two very different versions of how players interact with the gameworld from PC and Console3 -
MilwaukeeScott✭✭✭✭✭Yes, please.PS4NA
All I see is hate and rage from people who don't understand how to.....1 -
Tholian1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would guess that the updates would need to be too frequent to be worth it since they would have to go through Microsoft and Sony first. With PC, they can patch whenever they want and as frequently as they want.PS4 Pro NA5 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »But consoles often have entirely different bugs that are exploited or bugs that cause game crashing issues that could have been avoided had we been afforded the chance to test OUR version as well
I would actually pay to have access to a Console PTS in order to assist identifying bugs and exploits in the game.
We often have serperate issues that have created two very different versions of how players interact with the gameworld from PC and Console
@Nelson_Rebel
I understand what you're suggesting but its a much larger situation that ZOS needs to overcome. Possibly the new staff the hired to test Trials could be used for quality control efforts.......I mean if we are honest, why should we "need" to publicly test their game prior to release.
Doesn't that suggest they are less concerned if they intentionally don't test internally so much so, that for 3+ years we keep asking for PTS.
Just a thought....
On PC when I'm on PTS, for me personally, its only to provide feedback in some of their threads and other stuff is often just random discussions that are never acted upon.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on April 19, 2018 7:53PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would be sooo much harder for ZoS though.
The console population is barely on the forums.
Most console players wouldn't even know it exists, how to get on, and then how to leave feedback.
While I'd love such a thing, I can see why it wouldn't make sense for them to implement.1 -
Sting864✭✭✭✭SmellyUnlimited wrote: »There is a vibrant community of players on console that would like to also have a voice in upcoming in-game changes. Console games regularly have Beta testing periods, so the framework is in place.
Further, the issue of add-on’s needs to be addressed. While the same method of integrating them will of course be different, and it will have to be in-line with the console company’s rules and regs, but both of those are things fairly surmountable.
You could offer them as a bundle pack with ESO+, or allow a download of apps through the PSN or XBL store (this already occurs with numerous games).
But...what about the fact that these are player-made and not ZOS property?
Therein lies the rub. However. If an owner of intellectual property allows its free use to integrate with proprietary software absent a formalized contract, then the intellectual property can be openly-sourced, reproduced, or adopted without prejudice. This is a fundamental rule of intellectual property law. So things like Skyshards/lorebook, Combat metrics, skill use timers, status effect notifications; all of these are freely open to any user. Aside from packaging the content in a method by which it can be added to the existing ESO console network, there is no licensing or trademark violations.
One last note: Of all the ZOS-hosted player events (like the pre-PTS invitation), no console player has ever been invited. I think there are plenty of console theorycrafters that are just as knowledgeable on the game, and can provide just as valuable feedback, albeit from a slightly different perspective from PC.
Thank you for the fun game, and hope to see it grow and improve with every new iteration.
It seems that was part of the whole kerfuffle with Sony and ZOS at launch... I doubt ZOS wants to relive that... They know how it ends...
But...what about the fact that these are player-made and not ZOS property?
read the TOS... all software used on ZOS servers becomes ZOS property... You may not like it... but you agreed to it...1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭An add on runs on an open client machine, not the servers.
There is the problem a console is not an open client machine.Edited by TequilaFire on April 19, 2018 8:07PM2 -
Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »It would be sooo much harder for ZoS though.
The console population is barely on the forums.
Most console players wouldn't even know it exists, how to get on, and then how to leave feedback.
While I'd love such a thing, I can see why it wouldn't make sense for them to implement.
Ummm. What? A lot of facebook pages for console ESO link to the forums. A lot of people I know on the PS4 have forum accounts. They talk a lot about forum conversations, at least on PS4. Maybe active player base is bigger on PC. I don't know. I felt left out of a lot of conversations before I joined the forums but now I check daily.Edited by Kuramas9tails on April 19, 2018 8:19PMYour friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
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FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA2 -
Sting864✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »An add on runs on an open client machine, not the servers.
There is the problem a console is not an open client machine.
*SIGH* How far back should we go??
The add-on fundamentally changes the software right??
Pieces of that software go back and forth while you are logged in, right??
Isn't that the fundamental "online" thing??1 -
stargazer69✭✭✭I would guess that the updates would need to be too frequent to be worth it since they would have to go through Microsoft and Sony first. With PC, they can patch whenever they want and as frequently as they want.
This is the main problem I think, a lead time of at least 2 weeks from a new patch being ready and release to the console. Also you'd need another ~100GB of space on the console for the PTS version (not sure if code-sharing is possible).1 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭stargazer69 wrote: »I would guess that the updates would need to be too frequent to be worth it since they would have to go through Microsoft and Sony first. With PC, they can patch whenever they want and as frequently as they want.
This is the main problem I think, a lead time of at least 2 weeks from a new patch being ready and release to the console. Also you'd need another ~100GB of space on the console for the PTS version (not sure if code-sharing is possible).
I would hazard all they would have to do is add it to the selection screen where you choose NA server and simply add one for Ps4 consoles PTS with a game installed
Boom very easy to do. All they would have to do is submit updates for console PTS 2 weeks in advance so it can go through Sony's console process to keep it consistent. Or Console users could simply wait 2 weeks but at least would still have time to TEST in PTS for at least a month or more before launch to help identify Console specific bugs and issues
@NewBlacksmurfEdited by Nelson_Rebel on April 19, 2018 8:35PM0 -
nemvar✭✭✭✭✭
*SIGH* How far back should we go??
The add-on fundamentally changes the software right??
Pieces of that software go back and forth while you are logged in, right??
Isn't that the fundamental "online" thing??
This is why we need the LOL buttonEdited by nemvar on April 19, 2018 8:35PM1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They can't add a counsel PTS because of the console companies. Just get a proper PCFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
Sting864✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »I would actually pay to have access to a Console PTS in order to assist identifying bugs and exploits in the game.
If anyone recalls right before the FIRST tentative console launch date... This was a major reason why a deal didn't get done between ZOS and Sony and Microsoft... Where should that money go and in what proportions...1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »An add on runs on an open client machine, not the servers.
There is the problem a console is not an open client machine.
*SIGH* How far back should we go??
The add-on fundamentally changes the software right??
Pieces of that software go back and forth while you are logged in, right??
Isn't that the fundamental "online" thing??
An add on interfaces with the client API and can only use data presented by calls to the the API, in no way changes the client software.
It is a moot point on a closed architecture like consoles where the third party add on is not allowed by Sony or Microsoft.
1 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »I would actually pay to have access to a Console PTS in order to assist identifying bugs and exploits in the game.
If anyone recalls right before the FIRST tentative console launch date... This was a major reason why a deal didn't get done between ZOS and Sony and Microsoft... Where should that money go and in what proportions...
Do crown purchases or ESO plus get dispensed to Sony?
I dont see how Sony would have any hand in this0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kuramas9tails wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »It would be sooo much harder for ZoS though.
The console population is barely on the forums.
Most console players wouldn't even know it exists, how to get on, and then how to leave feedback.
While I'd love such a thing, I can see why it wouldn't make sense for them to implement.
Ummm. What? A lot of facebook pages for console ESO link to the forums. A lot of people I know on the PS4 have forum accounts. They talk a lot about forum conversations, at least on PS4. Maybe active player base is bigger on PC. I don't know. I felt left out of a lot of conversations before I joined the forums but now I check daily.
You could know a 1000 players and that's still less than 1%0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »stargazer69 wrote: »I would guess that the updates would need to be too frequent to be worth it since they would have to go through Microsoft and Sony first. With PC, they can patch whenever they want and as frequently as they want.
This is the main problem I think, a lead time of at least 2 weeks from a new patch being ready and release to the console. Also you'd need another ~100GB of space on the console for the PTS version (not sure if code-sharing is possible).
I would hazard all they would have to do is add it to the selection screen where you choose NA server and simply add one for Ps4 consoles PTS with a game installed
Boom very easy to do. All they would have to do is submit updates for console PTS 2 weeks in advance so it can go through Sony's console process to keep it consistent. Or Console users could simply wait 2 weeks but at least would still have time to TEST in PTS for at least a month or more before launch to help identify Console specific bugs and issues
@NewBlacksmurf
@Nelson_Rebel, no, it's a bit more than that.
The PTS isn't just a different server, it's an entirely different software install. So, in theory, you could probably install that on a devkit connect to the server and run it just fine... except, you don't have a devkit. You've got an end user console, which cannot run unsigned code.
This means any code you want to run needs to go through Sony or Microsoft. This means, to run the PTS on your console, at home, ZOS would need to submit their PTS builds to the console manufacturers for certification. That would lead to all kinds of headaches.
So, no, it's not just putting a server select option in.1 -
Sting864✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »I would actually pay to have access to a Console PTS in order to assist identifying bugs and exploits in the game.
If anyone recalls right before the FIRST tentative console launch date... This was a major reason why a deal didn't get done between ZOS and Sony and Microsoft... Where should that money go and in what proportions...
Do crown purchases or ESO plus get dispensed to Sony?
I dont see how Sony would have any hand in this
Who makes PS4??0 -
stargazer69✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »I would actually pay to have access to a Console PTS in order to assist identifying bugs and exploits in the game.
If anyone recalls right before the FIRST tentative console launch date... This was a major reason why a deal didn't get done between ZOS and Sony and Microsoft... Where should that money go and in what proportions...
Do crown purchases or ESO plus get dispensed to Sony?
I dont see how Sony would have any hand in this
I think (at least on PS4), Sony dictate the price of Crown packs and when (and where) they go on sale.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »stargazer69 wrote: »I would guess that the updates would need to be too frequent to be worth it since they would have to go through Microsoft and Sony first. With PC, they can patch whenever they want and as frequently as they want.
This is the main problem I think, a lead time of at least 2 weeks from a new patch being ready and release to the console. Also you'd need another ~100GB of space on the console for the PTS version (not sure if code-sharing is possible).
I would hazard all they would have to do is add it to the selection screen where you choose NA server and simply add one for Ps4 consoles PTS with a game installed
Boom very easy to do. All they would have to do is submit updates for console PTS 2 weeks in advance so it can go through Sony's console process to keep it consistent. Or Console users could simply wait 2 weeks but at least would still have time to TEST in PTS for at least a month or more before launch to help identify Console specific bugs and issues
@NewBlacksmurf
@Nelson_Rebel
No it’s not that simple....they already told us way back. It’s on the faq too or was-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
Cynnalia✭✭✭I'd love to see a PTS on consoles but I don't think it will ever happen. As it stands now, since I'm a PC-to-PS4 transfer, I do log on to the PTS once in a while, but I abandoned my characters on PC three years ago so it's just weird to run around on my main who is only CP144 on PC and the rest of my roster doesn't exist. >.< I'd much prefer to do PTS testing on my PS4 account.
Still, at least there are some console users on the PTS, for whatever it's worth. While we can't catch bugs that might be unique to the console platform, at least we can test gamepad functions and our comments join the others. But you're right - console users make up a significant percentage of players and we should have just as much access to the same opportunities as PC users without having to own two copies of the game and playing on two different accounts/platforms.NA PS4 Daggerfall Covenant Characters -- CP 755
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Ghareshi-ri - Khajiit, Necromancer, level 90 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem is that they have to pay for patches on console
However PTS is mostly about game balance and hard to get gameplay bugs, players do weird stuff like trying to get on top of things no in house beta tester will do.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »But consoles often have entirely different bugs that are exploited or bugs that cause game crashing issues that could have been avoided had we been afforded the chance to test OUR version as well
I would actually pay to have access to a Console PTS in order to assist identifying bugs and exploits in the game.
We often have serperate issues that have created two very different versions of how players interact with the gameworld from PC and Console
Lots of quest bugs is because the game get issues then thousands try to do the same quest at once.
Main problem for ZoS is that patching on console has to go trough an review, this take time and cost money and you want to patch the PTS fast an often.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Yzalirk✭✭✭✭I would personally use the PTS to make characters to see their face in-game prior to creating them in the live server. It is a hassle to go back and forth making and deleting a character because the character creation is so deceptive.0
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SmellyUnlimited✭✭✭✭They can't add a counsel PTS because of the console companies. Just get a proper PC
Not true. Company’s release game beta testing on consoles all the time.SmellyUnlimited wrote: »There is a vibrant community of players on console that would like to also have a voice in upcoming in-game changes. Console games regularly have Beta testing periods, so the framework is in place.
Further, the issue of add-on’s needs to be addressed. While the same method of integrating them will of course be different, and it will have to be in-line with the console company’s rules and regs, but both of those are things fairly surmountable.
You could offer them as a bundle pack with ESO+, or allow a download of apps through the PSN or XBL store (this already occurs with numerous games).
But...what about the fact that these are player-made and not ZOS property?
Therein lies the rub. However. If an owner of intellectual property allows its free use to integrate with proprietary software absent a formalized contract, then the intellectual property can be openly-sourced, reproduced, or adopted without prejudice. This is a fundamental rule of intellectual property law. So things like Skyshards/lorebook, Combat metrics, skill use timers, status effect notifications; all of these are freely open to any user. Aside from packaging the content in a method by which it can be added to the existing ESO console network, there is no licensing or trademark violations.
One last note: Of all the ZOS-hosted player events (like the pre-PTS invitation), no console player has ever been invited. I think there are plenty of console theorycrafters that are just as knowledgeable on the game, and can provide just as valuable feedback, albeit from a slightly different perspective from PC.
Thank you for the fun game, and hope to see it grow and improve with every new iteration.
It seems that was part of the whole kerfuffle with Sony and ZOS at launch... I doubt ZOS wants to relive that... They know how it ends...
But...what about the fact that these are player-made and not ZOS property?
read the TOS... all software used on ZOS servers becomes ZOS property... You may not like it... but you agreed to it...
@Sting864
That was my entire point. It was a lead-in question to my explaining why it ‘would’ be allowed. The paragraph about intellectual property was meant to show that ZOS can source the software.
On a side note: No, it isn’t a ZOS property. They aren’t able to acquire an exclusive license to openly-sourced software. They can choose not to allow it on their servers, but that’s it.Waffennacht wrote: »Kuramas9tails wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »It would be sooo much harder for ZoS though.
The console population is barely on the forums.
Most console players wouldn't even know it exists, how to get on, and then how to leave feedback.
While I'd love such a thing, I can see why it wouldn't make sense for them to implement.
Ummm. What? A lot of facebook pages for console ESO link to the forums. A lot of people I know on the PS4 have forum accounts. They talk a lot about forum conversations, at least on PS4. Maybe active player base is bigger on PC. I don't know. I felt left out of a lot of conversations before I joined the forums but now I check daily.
You could know a 1000 players and that's still less than 1%
Where are these figures? ZOS doesn’t release figures on their player populations. If you’re inferring, I would disagree and instead infer that most people don’t have gaming PC’s. Just because the game was released originally on PC has no bearing on the numbers for console. Maybe at release it did, but t’s been 3 years since then for console; more than enough time for player populations to be consistent. As it’s easier to purchase a console than a gaming PC, and it doesn’t require varying specs based on specific games, it’s entirely plausible that console players are the majority.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »But consoles often have entirely different bugs that are exploited or bugs that cause game crashing issues that could have been avoided had we been afforded the chance to test OUR version as well
I would actually pay to have access to a Console PTS in order to assist identifying bugs and exploits in the game.
We often have serperate issues that have created two very different versions of how players interact with the gameworld from PC and Console
Excellent point.DO. NOT. WIPE. (in game OR out!)1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They couldn’t really further patch a console version due to how the process works of pushing stuff through Microsoft/Sony, but they *could* give us the initial version of Summerset PTS. From there console players could test, although future PTS updates would not come.
I wish they’d do this.0 -
Sting864✭✭✭✭SmellyUnlimited wrote: »
But...what about the fact that these are player-made and not ZOS property?
I don't know from where you got this idea that plug-ins remain "open source" and not ZOS property but I suggest you check your sources...1 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »It would be sooo much harder for ZoS though.
The console population is barely on the forums.
Most console players wouldn't even know it exists, how to get on, and then how to leave feedback.
While I'd love such a thing, I can see why it wouldn't make sense for them to implement.
Yes bc we don't own PCs and live under rocks...
No way a console player could ever figure out how to join the forums and give feed back.1
