Jade1986 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.

I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest

It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!

Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.

SKill or no skill, it doesnt change the fact that the game should be balanced around pvp, and then content be created around that balance for pve. Then everyone wins. If you balance it around pve, then you will always have a constant stream of people complaining about balance in pvp. Its a really simple concept tbh, and one that would work, versus this mess we have atm.

That doesn't make any sense.

In an ideal world, the two would be balanced separately. Since we don't have that, they need to balance both modes simultaneously. If they're just going to balance one mode, then it makes sense to balance the more popular of the two (which is PvE).

Its not about whats more popular, its about what would work. If you balance around static environments and bosses, who never change, there is bound ti be issues with pvp. If you balance around pvp and those situations, and then make content according to that balance, then everything works out, because youll never see a trial boss complain about balance. Its been done in other games and they are generally more balanced. A more convoluted approach would be to balance them seperately and make the game act differently depending on if you were in pvp or pve.

Both would work, none are being done. So we get this mess we have atm. No game in the history of MMOS has EVER achieved true balance by balancing pvp around pve content. However, the otherway, has been achieved. The game escapes me tho. Its been a long, long time.

NupidStoob wrote: »

Inherent problem is that you have to buy it. I can already see all the p2w whining threads if it ever becomes too strong. That being said a little closer performance to other classes wouldn't hurt....

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Inherent problem is that you have to buy it. I can already see all the p2w whining threads if it ever becomes too strong. That being said a little closer performance to other classes wouldn't hurt....

No one wants them to be OP. We just want them to be close to the other classes. Wardens are so far behind right now you need binoculars to see them.

I'm also not sure why them being strong would be considered P2W. WoW, GW2, and other MMOs all release powerful new classes with their expansions. Literally every MMO ever released has done this.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

In PvP they are currently very over the top on DPS, defense, and sustain.

They're going to be the worst PvP class following the removal of their stun. Yet ZOS sill refuses to buff them in PvE, where they have been the worst class since they were released.

Vaoh wrote: »

PS4 NA


Here are the percentages of each class representation per trial:

Hel Ra Citadel:
DK: 23.12%
Sorc: 26.30%
NB: 26.01%
Templar: 22.68%
Warden: 1.878%

Aetherian Archive
DK: 18.95%
Sorc: 24.18%
NB: 30.74%
Templar: 24.42%
Warden: 0.895%

Sanctum Ophidia
DK: 3.72%
Sorc: 25.74%
NB: 23.32%
Templar: 24.66%
Warden: 2.560%

Dragonstar Arena
DK: 29.59%
Sorc: 31.39%
NB: 21.07%
Templar: 15.24%
Warden: 2.690%

Maw of Lorkhaj
DK: 24.38%
Sorc: 20.08%
NB: 30.94%
Templar: 31.76%
Warden: 1.024%

Halls of Fabrication
DK: 22.24%
Sorc: 21.56%
NB: 31.65%
Templar: 23.85%
Warden: 0.688%

Asylum Sanctorium
DK: 11.98%
Sorc: 22.71%
NB: 40.06%
Templar: 22.08%
Warden: 3.154%

TOTAL
DK: 21.95%
Sorc: 24.35%
NB: 28.64%
Templar: 23.32%
Warden: 1.740%


Here are the raw numbers, including the total entries per trial.

Using a similar template to what @GaelicCat made.

Hel Ra Citadel:
Total entries: 692
DK: 160
Sorc: 182
NB: 180
Templar: 157
Warden: 13

Aetherian Archive
Total entries: 670
DK: 127
Sorc: 162
NB: 206
Templar: 169
Warden: 6 .... fun fact: 3 entries were the same person, 1 was me because I was really bored during and did the weekly .....

Sanctum Ophidia
Total entries: 742
DK: 176
Sorc: 191
NB: 173
Templar: 183
Warden: 19

Dragonstar Arena
Total entries: 223
DK: 66
Sorc: 70
NB: 47
Templar: 34
Warden: 6

Maw of Lorkhaj
Total entries: 488
DK: 119
Sorc: 98
NB: 151
Templar: 115
Warden: 5

Halls of Fabrication
Total entries: 436
DK: 97
Sorc: 94
NB: 138
Templar: 104
Warden: 3

Asylum Sanctorium
Total entries: 317
DK: 38
Sorc: 72
NB: 127
Templar: 70
Warden: 10

TOTAL
Total entries: 3568
DK: 783
Sorc: 869
NB: 1022
Templar: 832
Warden: 62

EDITED to make sure this is all correct.

As of April 21st, 2018 at 2:01am est, this is exactly what the PS4 NA trial leaderboards look like.

datgladiatah wrote: »

I've been looking into similarities between classes and what sort of 'goals' each ability has in various roles and I think the three aspects of their 'damage' spell goals are:

Their spammable: screaming cliff racer adds 15% more damage on impact from high distance and it's still relatively pathetic AND it's slow. So who in the world would ever be motivated into picking cutting dive regardless? Also they're dodgeable now, which isn't a problem to me, except compared to any other spammable they offer 0 utility and simply aren't fun to use. Weapon spammables atm are all better.

Their 'burst' ability: Deep fissure is getting its stun removed for a debuff you can freely cast on a destro staff for the sole benefit of increasing aoe damage when you have very little aoe as it is. It has an awkward cast time, duration, and has no set up or reward. It treats itself more like a spammable ability and cliff racer/scorch are constantly conflicting. Its damage in PVE is bad. High ranking trial players that insist on bringing wardens in choose *** alliance spells like stalwart guard over this ability. Compare it to backlash, crystal frags, grim focus: Backlash can give aoe utility and at least does 20k within 6 seconds. Crystal frags procs dark magic heal and RNG can make it useful more than just 1 out of 5 spells (i still have issues with it being nerfed to 10% though, but conceptually the gameplay is still there). Grim focus overperforms because LW is easy, it's fast, and hits at the same damage as your execute at 25% health. It takes a lot less time to get satisfactory results from any of these abilities. I don't really understand what the identity of this attack is, especially when the debuff duration is only 5 seconds. Is it a spammable? Is it a combo setter? Why would I want to use it?

Their DOT: Fletcherflies on its own does pathetic damage. No morph has initial direct damage, it doesn't slow/heal/buff/debuff in either morph, it has a terrible aoe mechanic that is unuseable in almost every scenario. It does magic damage so it can't proc any elemental status effect. So why would I use this ability over like... slotting clench? Range I suppose? I'd rather maintain a burning proc than waste my time with a 1.5k DPS dot that offers me little to nothing other than a damage bonus/resources for slotting it. Compare it with cripple: direct damage, immobilizes, does about the same damage, buffs yourself through siphoning passives. Compare it with vampires bane: Gives minor sorcery, direct damage, slows, burns, does about the same damage. Any DK ability does it better. Sorc doesn't really have a single target DOT though I suppose you could count pet actives/liquid lightning

I suppose I'll just raise my complaints to 5 abilities then and talk about winters revenge and wild guardian. Why would I EVER want to double bar a pet that can only do single target with absolutely no utility and terrible survivability, which COUPLES with the fact that its death interrupts my rotation and leaves me vulnerable? Why wouldn't I just want an active like storm atro? Why are any pets toggles? Pet toggles aren't fun to use period, but that's a whole 'nother issue.

Winters revenge. Cold damage sucks for DPS. I understand why this is here, but again, why is the only benefit for the ability that it's magicka and ranged? Neat, it can chill people at the same capacity an ice staff can. So glad there aren't already plenty of tools given to every class that provides minor maim and once again, the warden provides nothing for their team even though their class identity is buffing and supporting.

So what does green balance do that a potion can't? What damage does the warden do that's unique, eventful, and worth using over other classes? What makes the warden appealing? On paper I could see changes that could make me fall in love with them. But they're god awful. And it's been a full year without anything other than minor tune ups to make them less powerful in pvp. But they're too strong there for all the long reasons. They're still clunky and unfun and it's disappointing that improving their pathetic class damage is so frightening to ZOS

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.

I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest

It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!

Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.

You keep saying that. If the PvP in this game is so easy, why don’t you dominate it? If you’re doing vet trials, gearing out for PvP should be really really easy.

Rainbow 6,

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Now I know youre full of it. That game launches 2 new overpowered operators (weapons doing far more damage than their counterparts) every 3 months and continues to release abilities for said Operators that are Wall-Hacks. All you need to do to dominate the match is have a intimate understanding of the map and the latest OP operator. That game is far from balanced and fair, there is a LOT of debate over whether it should have a competitive league at all.

erlewine wrote: »

Well, Cloudrest leaderboards are off to a good start. Of the 390 characters currently listed on PCNA, 13 are Wardens, a robust 3.33% representation. Only two have a score over 25k so most are clearly just alts, but hey, we'll gloss over that.

Balanced though, probably. Or like, maybe those guys are newbs, I mean, I've got a lvl 35 Warden alt and I've soloed some World Bosses. They probably just don't know what they're doing.

tl;dr - wardens still fine