Another crucial point is that most of the 1vX PVPers look for PVP around resources or deep in enemy territory. They want to fight superior odds around favorable terrain like rocks and trees. It's usually not in their interest to siege a keep or look to cut it off when their purpose is primarily to fight other players.

Lastly, the cut off feature doesn't really benefit the small groups as much as one would think, especially in Vivec. The reason being is that the large organized zerg will arrive before a small force has enough siege to drop the gate/walls and take the flags. Most of these engagements end at the outer wall or on the flags when the zerg finally arrives.

Again not the choice of 1vX players.

Knowledge wrote: »

The easy compromise is to allow the defender a one-time teleport to the keep once the keep is "cut off". This one time only teleport would be more realistic and fair.

That solves the issue of people fighting and dying, sure.

But I'm not sure it solves the the issue of not wanting to encourage zerg gameplay and reliance on massive amounts of players, when allowing teleports in after flagging/cut off is basically "Hark, yonder enemy zerg just rolled up to our front door! My faction! Zerg unto me to defend the keep!"

(Heh, now I want to go all Shakespearean in Cyrodiil zone chat when I call out enemy movements )

Knowledge wrote: »

The easy compromise is to allow the defender a one-time teleport to the keep once the keep is "cut off". This one time only teleport would be more realistic and fair.

Do you mean 'cut off' or do you mean flagged? As the earlier is already possible. And the later should not be.

Knowledge wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Superior numbers and/or vastly superior weaponry are what win battles. This fanciful belief that every Cyrodiil battle needs to mirror the movie 300 is absurd.

Are you saying that wins battles IRL or just in the game? Because I can give tons of examples of outnumbered nations/states defeating their enemy along with specific battles.

Not so much with the weapons that are available in game. Numbers of troops matter less now in the real world as technology produces better weapons. So we replace outnumbered with out gunned and the same affect applies.

There is of course examples throughout history where a small group with superior tactics sent a large force packing and didn't need superior weapons to do it. Superior tactics being things such as isolating and/or confusing the enemy. Cutting off a keep is a great example of how a small group can deal with a much larger group. A small group can also wreck a large groups day with a bit of organization at choke sights such as gates and bridges. A couple of small groups coordinating with each other can really muck up plans for even very large groups.

These work well against the groups/zergs you described above. When you run into a large and organized group all bets are off. They will win most of the time and they should. A large group that moves together and compliments one another should be a force to be reckoned with. Even then there is one good way to slow them down. Yep you guessed it... isolate them by isolating the keeps and other resources.

If someone else hasn't said it yet, I personally think that a player should only be able to operate one siege item at a time, not 3. Otherwise, Cyro is open world, faction vs faction PvP. How on earth you can make it more fair for small groups is beyond me.

Knowledge wrote: »

. The reason being is that I feel in order to combat extremely organized zerg forces that operate using "human wave" tactics we need to have the ability to rapidly get to a keep they are sieging.

When a large zerg force cuts off a keep they gain several advantages. The first is that they can respawn there from death via a Forward Camp and the whole of their attacking presence is already in range of it.

In contrast, the defender must move by mount across the terrain in order to pose a threat to the attacking zerg force. If the defender is disorganized in the sense that they are not all in a structured raid or on a voice chat they will trickle into near certain death while the attacker maintains the advantage.

The attacker now has the momentum to continue assaulting keeps in their path while affording to send smaller groups deeper into the defenders territory to further strain their manpower and debilitate their ability to mount a defense. At this juncture the attacker will essentially walk all over the defenders for the duration of their operating time or until they log off.

You realise all of this logic applies now to a smaller force using cut off to attack right? By paragraph:-
- we stop human wave defence (which is impossible to counter, organised defence is easier that attack)
- When a SMALL force cuts off a keep they gain several advantages. The first is that the defending large zerg force cant respawn there. And the smaller force can via a Forward Camp and the whole of their attacking presence is already in range of it, bolstering their numbers.
- the defender Zerg must move by mount across the terrain in order to pose a threat to the attacking smaller force. If the defender is disorganized in the sense that they are not all in a structured raid or on a voice chat they will trickle into near certain death while the smalling tactical attacker force maintains the advantage
- The attacker now has the momentum as the defending zerh is split and if the smaller force continue assaulting keeps in their path while affording to send smaller groups deeper into the defenders territory to further strain the defending Zerg manpower and debilitate their ability to mount a defense. At this juncture the attacker will essentially walk all over the disorganised zerg defenders for the duration of their operating time or until they log off
OR what will happen with your change is

- keep gets flagged by solo / small force. Disorganized zerg rabble all zerg across the map to stomp them. If in multiple places they have the power to arrive at each instantly and crush the smaller force
- keep gets flagged by solo / small force. Organised leaders will call for support (even from.other campaigns) to react in an organized large group and crush offence.

Beardimus wrote: »

Put simply @Knowledge

- I don't think you have played quality small scale
- I think you have either always tagged onto zergs on offence and find it dull or have defended with smaller, disorganized zergs against a big organised force and lost
- haven't played NoCP or even Shor properly
- ^ These assumptions are why I asked your experience so I had context but you declined to give it and sent Latin instead.

Again you talk Cyrodiil but actually you mean Vivec. On your region / platform in the time you play. Remember there are 4 campaigns, and multiple time zones, peak times, region platforms and honestly on the majority of those your solution would make zerging worse and ruin small scale action.

If you would like a demo of how a small force can kick ass of a big disorganized zerg I'm happy to play together sometime, but please dont ask to break the game play for those that seek what you are after. Quality, tactical small scale. Stop changing the game to suit you - and play the game.

I have played quality small scale.