2h counts as 2 pieces for more build variety

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

However most stamina builds are forced to run 2h because of the importance of Momentum.

Remove momentum from 2h, add it to FG to open up more choices for stamina builds.

Give 2h an aoe cone knock down just like Pelingare does in Wayrest Sewers. The animation is there, the mechanism is there.

Yakidafi · April 2018

I see alot of momentum to fg. But I just fail to see the correlation that you did with 2h counting as 2 pieces. Was that just click bait?

I vote no

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Yakidafi wrote: »

I see alot of momentum to fg. But I just fail to see the correlation that you did with 2h counting as 2 pieces. Was that just click bait?

I vote no

If you fail to see how 2h counting as 2pieces provides more build options whereas having to use 2h for momentum, effectively limits builds options i think you should have another lookC

VaranisArano · April 2018

Yakidafi wrote: »

I see alot of momentum to fg. But I just fail to see the correlation that you did with 2h counting as 2 pieces. Was that just click bait?

I vote no

Here's the correlation:

2H counting for 2 set pieces opens up build diversity in terms of which sets players can use.

2H being the source of Forward Momentum limited build diversity for players who want the benefits of FM because they have to use 2H.

Those are true, and I assume the conclusion is meant to be that if ZOS desires to capitalize on the new build diversity from 2H being 2 set pieces, they should also allow players who want the benefits of FM to move away from 2H weapons.

Which is reasonable, but I'm not yet sure I agree with the OP's suggestion for changing the skills. Partly because I could see the same argument made as "Most stamina builds are forced to use a bow because of the importance of Endless Hail" or repeated for any number of weapon skills deemed "essential" for certain builds. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to buy into the overall logic at work in that argument yet.

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

These changes do not affect PvE dps.
They essentially improve 2h in PvP. Wrecking blow is hard to master for most.

Momentum in FG improves non 2h builds

Sordidfairytale · April 2018

What would you move out of FG? Let me *** everyone off and ask: Could momentum move to Medium Armor instead?

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

What would you move out of FG? Let me *** everyone off and ask: Could momentum move to Medium Armor instead?

1)Circle of protection.
2)It would still be locked behind a feature. This isnt a buff Medium topic.

Khivas_Carrick · April 2018

Nah, leave it as is, and stop putting Mechanics Threads in General Discussion.

Also, I say leave it as is because DW atm is more versatile in it's toolkit and adds more DPS. It's a trade off, one that will still exist and still force players to question how to build their character even with the recent changes in Summerset.

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Talking about tradesoffs when a single item starts counting as 2 is hillarious.
Also Id like to see you making me stop talking about the game in the general section. Nobody told you to click in a topic that does not interest you.

Khivas_Carrick · April 2018

You're ideas are usually kinda bad and ill informed bro, and your other threads that ended up in the Mechanics forum tell me that somebody moved your *** anyway.

Additionally, a weapon taking up two slots now counts as 2 items, which tbh just sounds like basic math and balancing in a game that's very open ended with it's sets, unlike other games, such as WoW for example. It won't make DWing weaker, and the buff, while good, isn't he be all end all for 2H, and if anything, if I were you, I'd be more worried about balance and build variety for Magicka users, because that's where the real sauce is gonna be at.

In any case, let's wait for the PTS to see how this *** plays out because atm most people that have already played with it say that DWing is still ahead in PvE, and PvP is a damned mess.

veloSylraptor · April 2018

I'm confused.

If as you say:

1. The problem is build diversity and options
2. Momentum is very popular

conclusion: move momentum to fighters guild

Assuming we accept your premise here, then moving momentum to fighters guild would actually reduce diversity as most skill bars would have them.

Now, if the purpose of your argument is to reduce the desirability of 2h weapons, then your argument makes sense. The current argument you are making however, seem to contradict its stated purpose

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Talking about tradesoffs when a single item starts counting as 2 is hillarious.
Also Id like to see you making me stop talking about the game in the general section. Nobody told you to click in a topic that does not interest you.

As stated by people in your other threads, its not about the number of items. Its about the number of slots an item takes up.
Why should certain weapons like dw be given an undue advantage by having an extra item slot that 2h is deprived of?

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

veloSylraptor wrote: »

I'm confused.

If as you say:

1. The problem is build diversity and options
2. Momentum is very popular

conclusion: move momentum to fighters guild

Assuming we accept your premise here, then moving momentum to fighters guild would actually reduce diversity as most skill bars would have them.

Now, if the purpose of your argument is to reduce the desirability of 2h weapons, then your argument makes sense. The current argument you are making however, seem to contradict its stated purpose

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Talking about tradesoffs when a single item starts counting as 2 is hillarious.
Also Id like to see you making me stop talking about the game in the general section. Nobody told you to click in a topic that does not interest you.

As stated by people in your other threads, its not about the number of items. Its about the number of slots an item takes up.
Why should certain weapons like dw be given an undue advantage by having an extra item slot that 2h is deprived of?

Stamina skill bars:
Vigor
Momentum
Reverb bash
DBoS
Execution
Shuffle
Much unique. Woah.

2h takes 2 slots so it should count as 2 piece.
Ye.. what else? The earth is flat?

veloSylraptor · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

veloSylraptor wrote: »

I'm confused.

If as you say:

1. The problem is build diversity and options
2. Momentum is very popular

conclusion: move momentum to fighters guild

Assuming we accept your premise here, then moving momentum to fighters guild would actually reduce diversity as most skill bars would have them.

Now, if the purpose of your argument is to reduce the desirability of 2h weapons, then your argument makes sense. The current argument you are making however, seem to contradict its stated purpose

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Talking about tradesoffs when a single item starts counting as 2 is hillarious.
Also Id like to see you making me stop talking about the game in the general section. Nobody told you to click in a topic that does not interest you.

As stated by people in your other threads, its not about the number of items. Its about the number of slots an item takes up.
Why should certain weapons like dw be given an undue advantage by having an extra item slot that 2h is deprived of?

Stamina skill bars:
Vigor
Momentum
Reverb bash
DBoS
Execution
Shuffle
Much unique. Woah.

2h takes 2 slots so it should count as 2 piece.
Ye.. what else? The earth is flat?

I never said anything about the uniqueness of stamina skill bars, only that your proposed solution does nothing to address your stated problem and only exacerbate it. You did mention "for more build variety" in the title of your thread did you not?

And of course taking 2 slot means that it should be worth 2 slots, I don't see anything confusing about this. Are we supposed to give undue advantage to dw? Why should dw weapons get an extra item slot while 2h weapons are deprived of it?

lets not forget:
- dw still gets double the enchants of a 2h weapon
- dw still gets about 60 higher weapon damage than 2h when both setups have 1 nirnhoned, giving dw weapons a free extra trait.

Yakidafi · April 2018

Move momentum to Fighters guild, okeyyyyy what dw skill to move to fg??? Twin slashes, tornado or blade cloak seem fine for me.

"2h op in cyrodiil, but I only use it for momentum!" oh boy!

Ydrisselle · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Talking about tradesoffs when a single item starts counting as 2 is hillarious.
Also Id like to see you making me stop talking about the game in the general section. Nobody told you to click in a topic that does not interest you.

Right now if you want to build a 5/5/2 gear setup, you are constrained to DW or SnB. This will change with Summerset thanks to the fact that 2H weapons will count as 2 pieces for sets. If you fail to see how it will increase diversity in gearing, I can't help you.

DocFrost72 · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Talking about tradesoffs when a single item starts counting as 2 is hillarious.

My boots are two items, as my character is fortunate enough to have not lost a leg. Does that mean each boot should be a seperate set piece? I mean, they are two very distinct items. Or do you think maybe it is because they take up one slot that they only count as 1 item?

Genuinely curious to your response.

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

DocFrost72 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Talking about tradesoffs when a single item starts counting as 2 is hillarious.

My boots are two items, as my character is fortunate enough to have not lost a leg. Does that mean each boot should be a seperate set piece? I mean, they are two very distinct items. Or do you think maybe it is because they take up one slot that they only count as 1 item?

Genuinely curious to your response.

1 sword, 2 handa = 2 swords with your logic here is my response

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Yakidafi wrote: »

Move momentum to Fighters guild, okeyyyyy what dw skill to move to fg??? Twin slashes, tornado or blade cloak seem fine for me.

"2h op in cyrodiil, but I only use it for momentum!" oh boy!

I guess DW moves 2piece bonus to 2h weap9ns hey? So nothing

DocFrost72 · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Talking about tradesoffs when a single item starts counting as 2 is hillarious.

My boots are two items, as my character is fortunate enough to have not lost a leg. Does that mean each boot should be a seperate set piece? I mean, they are two very distinct items. Or do you think maybe it is because they take up one slot that they only count as 1 item?

Genuinely curious to your response.

1 sword, 2 handa = 2 swords with your logic here is my response

Straw man, no. I never said 2h= 2 slots because it takes two hands to wield, otherwise I'd think 2 boots, two feet should be two set items. In fact I was very clear the reason was that a two handed weapon took up two weapon slots. 2 boots take up one slot labeled feet.

So, do you think the idea "since you wear two boots, you are granted two set pieces" is a good idea? It follows the same logic as "since you carry two swords, you are granted two set pieces, and since you carry one bow you carry one set piece."

(Note I didn't assume your position here, I asked for it

)

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

You can always find ridiculous justifications to proceed why a from change like the case with 2h counting as 2 items

SirAndy · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

2h counts as 2 pieces for more to get rid of build variety

Fixed it for 'ya ...

Khivas_Carrick · April 2018

I see Georgie still can't make a sound argument as to why skills should be shuffled around for no apparent reason.

Also hey, look, your *** thread got moved to the mechanics section, wouldyalookatthat.

Also also, we keep telling you, this is going to grossly increase build diversity because now everybody can use the 5/5/2 set up a lot more easily, and not 5/5/1 like I'm currently rocking.

As someone also showed you, DW still has distinct utilitarian advantages over 2H, so quit your crying and use that brain of yours to think a bit about this and why it's finally being done.

joseayalac · April 2018

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

What would you move out of FG? Let me *** everyone off and ask: Could momentum move to Medium Armor instead?

haven't you heard of Shuffle before?