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Templar Dual Wield DPS

Eriias
Eriias
Hello all,

I'm looking for some advice on making my Templar's DPS build more effective without changing the core concept of it. I realize that I'm almost certainly using a sub-optimal setup but I feel like even within this it could still be a lot better, and I've been away from the game for so long I don't really know how to achieve that.

So my current DPS build is full leather with 2 swords. I use Bloodcraze (Twin Slashes), Puncturing Sweep (Puncturing Strikes), Power of the Light (Backlash), Bloodthirst (Flurry), and my 5th changes depending on the situation but is usually Whirling Blades (whirlwind), Reflective Light (Sunfire), Silver Shards (Silver Bolts), or Repentence (Restoring Aura).

I use 5 piece Night's Silence because I'm addicted to going fast in Stealth, but am flexible/not sure what else to use for the other pieces. At the moment, I have the Briarheart set as well.

My attributes are all in hit points, because I primarily use this character as a tank and once upon a time I was told (like 4 years ago) that HP was better than the other two >.>

So this setup makes me reasonably durable for soloing since I have life steal on almost all of my abilities, but my DPS is complete garbage. I see sorcerers and pretty much everyone else blazing through enemies while I'm sitting here poking away at each one, and I just know there has to be some abilities or morphs I should be using that I'm not...

Also, in looking up builds, I notice most builds seem to be labeled "stamina tank" or "magicka dps" etc; does that mean those builds use exclusively stamina or magicka abilities? Because I always thought it made more sense to use a balance of both so you run out less....

As you can see, while I may be a "veteran" in that I was around at release, I know next to nothing about the game nowadays and am interested in getting to know how things actually work. If someone would be willing to explain some of these things to me, I would really appreciate it. Or if someone has a link to a recent dual wield templar build, I'd appreciate that...I couldn't find any within the last year or so.

Thank you for your time and advice!
-Eriias
  • yttoks
    yttoks
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    Definitely all stam. Use rending slashes and biting jabs instead. Put rearming traps on for your dual bar and make sure to get the FG passives. If you're really committed to night's silence, fair enough but definitely a dps loss on a stamplar. So, for your dropped set try to get some normal trials and get two-fanged or vicious serpent.
    That's the obvious stuff and should bump your dps quite a bit.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    It sounds like you might be happier as a nightblade. :) My Bosmer nightblade can stealth through a whole delve or public dungeon at 155% of normal non-stealth walking speed without ever stumbling into a fight. And I play on a PC, so if I initiate a fight I have time to change my whole set-up to a more damaging one with four mouse clicks (it could be done with even fewer).

    Anyhow -- to do damage it's all stamina-based or all magicka-based skills now; e.g., Reflective Light is terrible for you, even though it's great for magicka-based templars. Ditto for healing; if the heal-on-damage skills and gear don't suffice, you'll basically need Vigor from the PvP skill line to heal yourself. (Repentance could be an alternative if enough corpses are lying around.)

    Edited by FrancisCrawford on April 10, 2018 11:16PM
  • Checkmath
    Checkmath
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    Hey Eriias
    you heard right, that today damage dealers either are specified into magicka or stamina. when i say that, i mean that they really put everything into one ressource. so magicka templar damage dealers have all their attributes spent into magicka, while the stamina toons have everything into stamina.
    regarding skill its pretty much the same: to deal damage only skills either costing magicka or stamina are used. on a magicka character not only the damage skills cost magicka, also most buffs do so. on stamina toons, there may be some buffs costing magicka.
    now why do they do that, its simple. the damage done by an ability costing magicka scales with the spelldamage and the maximal magicka pool. so the higher both of them, the better the damage. same goes for stamina skills, they scale with max stamina and weapon damage.
    an example would be puncturing strikes, the magicka morph scales with your magicka attributes (spelldamage and max magicka), while the stamina morph benefits from stamina and weapon damage.
    also the race has some impact on the damage, since they sometimes give you additional stats, resource management or higher damage.
    now also the crit value is very important, since a critical hit is much stronger than a normal hit. therefore weapon crit is important for stamina chars and spellcrit is important for magicka chars.

    first off you should decide, which resource pool you want to prioritize a for your damage skills. maybe you already have chosen a good race for one specific spec.
    second you should spend all your attribute points into said resource pool, to increase your max stat and therefore the damage of your abilities.
    afterwards, there are many sets out and you should focus in sets, that give you a lot of magicka, spell damage and spell crit if you have chosen magicka. if you go stamina, you should aim for sets with weapon crit, weapon damage and max stamina boni. easy sets to get are hundings rage or julionas. they are both craftable and both give you two times crit, once max stat and the last bonus is 300 damage. julionas is the magicka set and hundings rage the stamina version.
    also your weapon choice is very importan, since it gives you acces to a lot of additional abilites to us together with your class abilities. best stamina weapon type is dual wield to dish out a lot damage. this is mostly paired with a bow on the second bar. for magical damage destruction staves are the way to go, especially the inferno staves. healing staves belong to the healers tough.
    i hope this write up helps a lot to understand the base game mechanics, maybe now some guides on youtube make much more sense. there surely are also guides on youtube, which explain again the base mechanics and also class specific beginner guides. have a look at the skills and setups they use there, because the used setups and skills there are very efficient.
    have fun and enjoy the game, i hope i was a little bit of help ;)
  • Eriias
    Eriias
    Whoa, thanks all of you!

    I see then that I definitely can't maximize my dps without committing the character to being dps, since I can't change my attributes to being one or the other as easily as I can change gear. So I won't get as much stamina (and therefore as much dmg) as I could, but I tank more often when I group so that's that I guess.

    In that respect, though, I may be a bit stuck. The stamina version of Puncturing Swipes definitely sounds better for when I'm DPSing, but as a tank I figured the magicka one was better for the healing? Or do Tanks also go all into one resource or another (and not into health)?

    Lastly, is there a best dps enchantment for melee weapons (dual wield)?
  • Eriias
    Eriias
    It sounds like you might be happier as a nightblade. :) My Bosmer nightblade can stealth through a whole delve or public dungeon at 155% of normal non-stealth walking speed without ever stumbling into a fight. And I play on a PC, so if I initiate a fight I have time to change my whole set-up to a more damaging one with four mouse clicks (it could be done with even fewer).

    Ha, maybe. Back in my day~ *old man voice* Vampires were OP as heck and the Vampire passive stacked with Night's Silence to make me run faster than most people's mounts in stealth. XD I certainly never had problems going fast in those days lol. It was very reasonable for them to nerf both of those passives as they did, but I do miss zipping around like that lol. Unfortunately, I'm so far into this character both sentimentally and in how much I have invested in her mount skills etc. I don't think I could ever really play a different one. I've tried, and I just get so annoyed at how slow my horse is lol.
  • Checkmath
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    For tanking dungeons around 30k health is more than enough, everything else can be spent into one resource pool to stregthen your damage. And as long as you dont tank, i would suggest to have also a damage setup with you. So basically i would say, that you enchant your tank setup with full health and you should wear healthy jewelry. That way you can still put a lot of attributes into stamina or magicka (just decide which one and use that for the damage abilities), while you get a lot of health just by wearing the tanky setup. The damage setup then is enchanted with either stamina or magicka. Like this you only may have to put a little bit attributes into health instead of all.
    For the weapon enchant: the berserker enchant grants you weapon and spelldamage for 5 seconds. On an infused weapon around 450. this can further enhance your damage output.
  • Eriias
    Eriias
    Ohhh, ok, so you would do infused + berserker instead of the penetration or crit trait weapons? Interesting. Like I said, I never got too deep into the mechanics, so I guess I didn't put much stock in the enchantments as a source of dps to begin with. For now I've just been using lifesteal because I like staying alive. XD

    So I'm gathering that I should try to make my tank build the same trait as my dps, and that I don't necessarily need the self-healing abilities on the tank setup? Interesting....
  • jypcy
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    As Checkmath noted, race can maybe help influence which way you lean with respect to the attribute you invest in. Bosmers, redguards, orcs, nords, imperials, and khajiit favor stamina. Bretons, argonians, altmer, and dunmer all favor magicka. Race needn’t be THE deciding factor, but if you want to be able to switch easily between tanking and damaging, abiding your racial passives will help you to make the most out of your build while still being a perfectly viable tank with a quick gear/skill swap.
    As far as self healing goes, yes, ideally you’re already a magicka-favoring race so that you can use puncturing sweeps to effectively heal yourself. If not, blood craze is decent for stamina characters, but vigor and repentance will probably be your best friends (even though they don’t do damage). Also, if going for a sort of hybrid build, I recommend leveling up structured entropy in the mages guild for when you tank (even if you’re stamina-based). This passively gives you 8% extra health, so can help to increase your max health while tanking even if you have all 64 attribute points put into stamina or magicka. I have a healer who is just about as squishy as healers go (with all 64 points into magicka), but put him into heavy armor with health enchants, healthy jewelry, and structured entropy on both bars, and he’s a perfectly viable tank for any vet dungeon with no attribute/cp changes.
    (Structured entropy is by no means necessary, just like said, can help boost your health if you think it’s a little low.)
  • Eriias
    Eriias
    Whoa, again, this is so much stuff I hadn't even considered. Thank you all!!

    I am an Imperial so sadly it does sound like I'm better off with stamina, given that I want to dual wield. I suppose that means I want to be a Stamina tank, then, too....that'll take some readjusting. I've been running an even split on that front, using Puncture and whatever the Undaunted taunt is called evenly so I can always keep things taunted.

    I guess I'll just try respec'ing and seeing how I do without Puncturing Sweeps. If I find it's really screwing me up, frankly I'm ok with my dps build just not being as good as it could be to keep my tank one where it is. But from the sounds of it, I'd want all my tank abilities to be uniform, too, correct?
  • jypcy
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    In my experience, you generally want tanks to have good health and fairly even magicka and stamina pools, as it benefits you to use abilities from each (generally only puncture and heroic slash for stamina since blocking, sprinting, roll dodging, etc also eat from this resource pool, but you can absolutely also use blood craze, vigor, power of the light, etc. Then all other abilities can use magicka, such as radiant ward, restoring focus, purifying ritual, etc.). Because my example healer/tank role swapper focuses on magicka when not tanking, I just run max health + stamina food when tanking, as this gives more of these stats than tri-stat food does and my magicka pool is already high due to attributepoints and racial passives. In your case you might want to run max health + magicka food as your setup is the reverse of mine, but I think tri-stat could also work fine if you want to keep a number of additional damaging stamina abilities on your bar.
    And imperial is good, since they have the single highest racial bonus to health (12%) which should make it even easier for you to run high stamina while focusing on damage but easily achieve a large health pool when swapping to your tank setup.
    Edited by jypcy on April 11, 2018 5:16PM
  • Checkmath
    Checkmath
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    If you want to dps on a stamina templar dd, puntiring sweeps, bit actually the stamina morph, will be your spammable. Its a really hard hitting ability when you go for stamina and weapon damage. I would suggest, that xou just once try out a full stamina templar dps build, everything put into stamina with sets, attribute points and cps to just try it out. Maybe you will like, what you experience (especially killing enemy npcs fast is such a time saving and nice experience).
  • Eriias
    Eriias
    jypcy wrote: »
    In my experience, you generally want tanks to have good health and fairly even magicka and stamina pools, as it benefits you to use abilities from each (generally only puncture and heroic slash for stamina since blocking, sprinting, roll dodging, etc also eat from this resource pool, but you can absolutely also use blood craze, vigor, power of the light, etc. Then all other abilities can use magicka, such as radiant ward, restoring focus, purifying ritual, etc.). Because my example healer/tank role swapper focuses on magicka when not tanking, I just run max health + stamina food when tanking, as this gives more of these stats than tri-stat food does and my magicka pool is already high due to attributepoints and racial passives. In your case you might want to run max health + magicka food as your setup is the reverse of mine, but I think tri-stat could also work fine if you want to keep a number of additional damaging stamina abilities on your bar.

    Aha, ok, that makes me feel better that I have at least been (mostly) doing Tanking right. XD Tanking has always been my main thing in MMOs so I frankly was going on intuition of what I felt 'should' work based on past experience and it worked out.

    I do think I'll try going full stamina and see how badly that impacts my tanking abilities. Or conversely, I could have my stamina build without the stamina puncturing strikes, but that sounds rough. Seems like I just need to experiment and find what works, and thanks to this event I have plenty of gold to respec a few times. XD

    Thanks a ton, everyone! I really appreciate each of you taking the time to share your advice and insight. :) It's really helpful.
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