New method for acquiring Maelstrom weapons

aaylas · April 2018

I completed my first clear of vMA on Friday. I ran it additional times this weekend hoping to get any usable weapon (any of bow, lightning staff, inferno staff). After my first clear, the dungeon doesn't seem very hard. However, I really don't like the dungeon. It doesn't look good and the mechanics get old once you know them. My drops so far have been:

5x 1H
4x Shield
1x Ice Staff

I really don't want to run it again. I would rather run a trial or a dungeon (you know, things with a multiplayer aspect in an MMO). But I want one of the weapons.

I sent a support ticket to the developer suggesting a small change to the way players acquire weapons. I think that Maelstrom weapons should deconstruct into a special crafting material. When you accumulate enough, you can craft a vMA weapon of your choice. This will help mitigate the negative side of RNG. They could put a special forge in Old Orsinium for this purpose and it could be lore friendly and have an MMO feel. It's also a lot better than stuffing players into single player content.

I don't know if the developers will see my suggestion, but I would love to hear feedback from the community on this. And if you like it, please submit a ticket asking for this feature.

Marabornwingrion · April 2018

In the past vMA weapon was not guaranteed.
There was 1 BiS trait and transmutation station did not exist.

Be happy what you have now.

BuddyAces · April 2018

No. VMA is fine.

Septimus_Magna · April 2018

Be prepared to run it 20-40 times if you want all weapons. The chance for a bow is 1/6 but the chance for a fire/lightning staff is only 1/18.

aaylas · April 2018

Astrid_V wrote: »

In the past vMA weapon was not guaranteed.
There was 1 BiS trait and transmutation station did not exist.

Be happy what you have now.

I respect your opinion if you disagree with me and have a good reason.

Do you realize that your argument could be paraphrased as, "It used to be worse, so don't improve it anymore?"

Is there anything you don't like about my forge idea?

aaylas · April 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Be prepared to run it 20-40 times if you want all weapons. The chance for a bow is 1/6 but the chance for a fire/lightning staff is only 1/18.

How does the math work? It seems like every weapon should be 1/18. Why is the bow a higher drop rate?

aaylas · April 2018

BuddyAces wrote: »

No. VMA is fine.

I'm not asking them to change vMA. I'm suggesting an improvement similar to the Transmutation system.

Random drops leave the possibility that people in the tails of the distribution might never get a drop that they need. The Transmutation system was a massive improvement to the loot system and was a really good example of the developer making a quality of life improvement. The response has been overwhelmingly positive. Everyone I play with is really happy that the developer introduced it.

I don't see any reason not to bring a quality of life improvement to Maelstrom drops as well. My idea still requires people to beat the arena many times, but it at least it provides a light at the end of the tunnel. I could run this dungeon 50 more times and I have no expectation that I will get one the useful drops.

Kikke · April 2018

Farm it or leave it.

Vapirko · April 2018

Well I don't really want to run VDSA but Id really love a masters bow and the dw weapons. But that doesn't mean it should be easier. ZOS has already made it worlds more forgiving to get vMA weapons. Its not so hard to complete after your first time, its not even that hard to place on leaderboards so thats already two weapons with one run per week and then you have transmute stones. There have been so many discussion about vMA and how it should be easier, but why? vMA weapons aside from the bow and maybe the lightweight staff are all but phased out thanks to their huge undeserved nerf which was probably due in part to people complaining that these bis weapons were too hard to get. Why shouldn't ESO have this holy grail of content? It makes perfect sense to have at least one thing in the game that really makes you work for it and is available to solo players. vMA weapons should never have been nerfed. I was actually looking forward to the challenge of acquiring the 2H, but its just not worth the time anymore. Just one less goal to have and thats not a good thing.

Septimus_Magna · April 2018

aaylas wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Be prepared to run it 20-40 times if you want all weapons. The chance for a bow is 1/6 but the chance for a fire/lightning staff is only 1/18.

How does the math work? It seems like every weapon should be 1/18. Why is the bow a higher drop rate?

There are 6 different Maelstrom enchants so for each weapon the chance is 1/6. There are 3 different destro staffs so the chance is 1/6 x 1/3 = 1/18. For the bow and resto there is only one weapon type so its 1/6 x 1/1 = 1/6.

You can also calculate what the chance is to get a certain weapon after x amount of runs.

The average chance of getting the fire/lightning staff after 20 runs is 1-(1-1/18)^20 = 68%

The average chancd of getting the bow after 20 runs is 1-(1-1/6)^20 = 97%

Personally I try to keep it bearable and run vMA once each day. I’ll eventually get the fire staff, I hope..

Anotherone773 · April 2018

Maelstrom is great practice for later when you want to solo run a dungeon/trial with other solo runners who happen to be running the same instance at the same time.

SmellyUnlimited · April 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Be prepared to run it 20-40 times if you want all weapons. The chance for a bow is 1/6 but the chance for a fire/lightning staff is only 1/18.

No, this is inaccurate. These numbers may reflect YOUR personal RNG for Maelstrom weapon’s you’ve received. There is no figures put out by ZOS, or data miners, that list the drop rate for any item in Maelstrom or trials, other than that “weapon’s ans jewelry are more likely to drop from the final boss.”

Must be fun to try and troll people with misinformation though.

SmellyUnlimited · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Maelstrom is great practice for later when you want to solo run a dungeon/trial with other solo runners who happen to be running the same instance at the same time.

@Anotherone773

LOL!!

aaylas · April 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

Well I don't really want to run VDSA but Id really love a masters bow and the dw weapons. But that doesn't mean it should be easier. ZOS has already made it worlds more forgiving to get vMA weapons. Its not so hard to complete after your first time, its not even that hard to place on leaderboards so thats already two weapons with one run per week and then you have transmute stones. There have been so many discussion about vMA and how it should be easier, but why? vMA weapons aside from the bow and maybe the lightweight staff are all but phased out thanks to their huge undeserved nerf which was probably due in part to people complaining that these bis weapons were too hard to get. Why shouldn't ESO have this holy grail of content? It makes perfect sense to have at least one thing in the game that really makes you work for it and is available to solo players. vMA weapons should never have been nerfed. I was actually looking forward to the challenge of acquiring the 2H, but its just not worth the time anymore. Just one less goal to have and thats not a good thing.

No one in this thread has suggested making vMA easier. No one has said anything about vMA being too hard. The only thing being discussed is a quality of life improvement to reduce RNG variance.

There's a lot of content in the game that is more fun and better designed. There's no reason to keep it so someone has to spend dozens of hours rerunning the same boring content over and over. Scalecaller Peak and Fang Lair are the coolest dungeons I've seen. Every time they add content, it's going to be better than vMA and is going to make running vMA 50 times even less appealing.

Kanar · April 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

aaylas wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Be prepared to run it 20-40 times if you want all weapons. The chance for a bow is 1/6 but the chance for a fire/lightning staff is only 1/18.

How does the math work? It seems like every weapon should be 1/18. Why is the bow a higher drop rate?

There are 6 different Maelstrom enchants so for each weapon the chance is 1/6. There are 3 different destro staffs so the chance is 1/6 x 1/3 = 1/18. For the bow and resto there is only one weapon type so its 1/6 x 1/1 = 1/6.

You can also calculate what the chance is to get a certain weapon after x amount of runs.

The average chance of getting the fire/lightning staff after 20 runs is 1-(1-1/18)^20 = 68%

The average chancd of getting the bow after 20 runs is 1-(1-1/6)^20 = 97%

Personally I try to keep it bearable and run vMA once each day. I’ll eventually get the fire staff, I hope..

Incorrect. I've corrected so many people on this topic, that I thought I got to everyone. The vMA reward system is no longer 2 tiered, it is a flat system by weapon so inferno staff is just as likely to drop as any other weapon. Bow and resto staff have further reduced chance so they are less likely to drop compared to others. Look up the homestead patch notes.

I got my first bow on the run before I got flawless conqueror (25th).

Edit: for your reference: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318838/pc-mac-patch-notes-v2-7-5#latest

Beardimus · April 2018

No. Not needed at all.

First of all the weapons aren't as 100% BIS as they once were. Second you have guarenteed drop bow AND transmutation

Sure first pass sucks but your 2nd will be considerably faster. Ita the mechanics that rekt you first time.

I spent 30hrs run 1, 3hrs run 2 and sub 90 minutes after that.

Just get back in there.....

aaylas · April 2018

As noted, I ran it 5 times. My second run was 1:46. I don't think it's hard. I just don't want to run it 50 times. If I have to run it 50 times, I'd like some defense against getting 0 useable drops.

What about my proposal don't you like? I haven't heard a single criticism against it, just some really salty people who don't want anyone to get a Maelstrom weapon faster than they did (but it's apparently okay if someone runs it twice, gets their drop, and never comes back). God forbid someone runs it 25 times, doesn't get a drop, but can go to a special forge and convert their 25 worthless weapons into one that they want. That would be terrible and ruin the game. The worst part is that that person might have more time to spend on new content. That would also be terrible. Thanks for helping me understand.

Sigtric · April 2018

There's been a lot of suggestions over the years for a token system in vma and it never happened. This is even less likely to happen. Unfortunately you'll have to just get it on farm like everyone else.

Septimus_Magna · April 2018

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Be prepared to run it 20-40 times if you want all weapons. The chance for a bow is 1/6 but the chance for a fire/lightning staff is only 1/18.

No, this is inaccurate. These numbers may reflect YOUR personal RNG for Maelstrom weapon’s you’ve received. There is no figures put out by ZOS, or data miners, that list the drop rate for any item in Maelstrom or trials, other than that “weapon’s ans jewelry are more likely to drop from the final boss.”

Must be fun to try and troll people with misinformation though.

Whats not true about basic math? Please explain because Im really curious to hear from someone who knows better.

You always get a vMA weapon drop now after you beat the final boss. You would have known that if you had completed it recently.

@aaylas I agree that its pointless to force players to run vMA more than 20 times for one weapon. Luckily the bow is fairly easy to get so it shouldnt take too long.

aaylas · April 2018

Sigtric wrote: »

There's been a lot of suggestions over the years for a token system in vma and it never happened. This is even less likely to happen. Unfortunately you'll have to just get it on farm like everyone else.

Thank you for the response and for the respectful tone. I'm going to keep running it. I've gotten really good at the arena over my last 5 runs and I have total confidence that I can beat it fairly easily whenever I try. I should be able to average an hour and a half per run. I'll probably just do half per night and do an extra one on the weekend. I just know how probabilities work and I know there's a chance I could sink 1000 hours into this and not get what I'm looking for. And, as noted above, I don't really think this arena is fun and, given the quality of the new content, I feel like there is an opportunity cost for farming a BIS weapon. Hopefully I get some kind of drop before Summerset comes out. I'm so excited.

It's kind of disappointing that there isn't more community support for a mechanic that I've described above. As human beings who are supposed to be capable of empathy, I'm surprised that everyone isn't at least theoretically in favor of some kind of modifier for people who have the worst luck. Before starting this thread, I thought the debate would be the minimum number of completions before being allowed the weapon, not whether the mechanic should exist at all.

Lukums1 · April 2018

No empathy here.

We ran it thousands of times (and I mean over a thousand times) for flame sharpen staff.

Said it before say it again, the chances now are insanely highly sure it's painful... but man oh man running 10 times and not getting what you want...come on bud.

You have trans stones for trait changes we would of KILLED people for these years ago legit KILLED...yes I'm joking but still.

Power ahead speed run it you'll get it sooner than later.

SmellyUnlimited · April 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Be prepared to run it 20-40 times if you want all weapons. The chance for a bow is 1/6 but the chance for a fire/lightning staff is only 1/18.

No, this is inaccurate. These numbers may reflect YOUR personal RNG for Maelstrom weapon’s you’ve received. There is no figures put out by ZOS, or data miners, that list the drop rate for any item in Maelstrom or trials, other than that “weapon’s ans jewelry are more likely to drop from the final boss.”

Must be fun to try and troll people with misinformation though.

Whats not true about basic math? Please explain because Im really curious to hear from someone who knows better.

You always get a vMA weapon drop now after you beat the final boss. You would have known that if you had completed it recently.

@aaylas I agree that its pointless to force players to run vMA more than 20 times for one weapon. Luckily the bow is fairly easy to get so it shouldnt take too long.

Never said you didn’t....that last comment referred to trials, obviously. And as was said ad nauseum, tier system was eliminated ages ago.