Don't follow premade builds, make your own!!

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

The meta wasnt the meta until someone found a combination that worked and published it so others could copy it.

There will always be new hidden combinations popping up, given the ever-changing state of MMO's, and new meta setups will come and go. It's up to creative players to figure out what works.

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Zos should unlock skeleton skills that are locked behind BiS skill lines.
Zos should buff class ultimates.
Zos should nerf remove proc sets.
Zos should remove CP
Zos should remove resource dmg bonus.
Unless some of these things happen, people that want to be competitive will have to slot BiS, furthering the meta. Sad

Maryal · April 2018

Going with meta builds is helpful when you are new and don't really know what you are doing or what you are doing wrong (why you keep dying and the mob isn't). Think of it like training wheels.

Even if you're not new to the game, some people aren't interested in experimenting with builds, set combos, etc. and are perfectly happy to let others do that type of thinking for them.

Some people are analytical / creative and get a kick out of experimenting with different types of builds ... different types of set ups (gear, CPs, skills, etc). It's kind of hit or miss ... sometimes you end up with a flop, other times you hit the jack pot. This type of experimenting takes time and not everyone that plays the game has that kind of luxury (their game time is more limited).

Betsararie · April 2018

Why force your beliefs on other people? There's a lot to be said about coming up with your own builds, but if someone would prefer to use a meta build, they should be allowed to.

Personally, I exercise a hybrid philosophy using both, often coming up with subtle improvements to meta builds that even better complement my playstyle. Live and learn !!

Septimus_Magna · April 2018

I completely agree you shouldnt blindly copy someones build and expect to be good. Instead, you need to gather information from multiple credible sources, test different setups and try to work out why certain setups are performing better.

Once you’ve done that you can form your own opinion about whats good and why its good.

Septimus_Magna · April 2018

I completely agree you shouldnt blindly copy someones build and expect to be good. Instead, you need to gather information from multiple credible sources, test different setups and try to work out why certain setups are performing better.

Once you’ve done that you can form your own opinion about whats good and why its good.

Joker99 · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

ive done top tier raiding in many games over the years. Ive DPS, tanked, healed raids. I have yet to use a meta build to do any of it. And yes, as DPS ive been near the top of the group list, rarely below the top third of damage dealt. Meta is for people who need an instruction manual.

You do 10k dps on the 3mil dummy, and claim that adding DoTs to your rotation brings your dps down.

Please get off your high horse.

Dont be upset because you need an instruction manual to do decent DPS. Also stop taking my posts out of context. The context of my post was this( in relation to "can i do good dps without a bunch of skills"):

I do 10k on a dummy on a trash character that isnt even built for combat using 2 skills and normal attacks using arguably the worse(main) weapon in the game. This trash character is a support character for my other characters. Master Crafter, thief, assassin, gather, fisherman, and other nonsense. He only uses 1 weapon and has less than 300 CP.

And yes i can achieve better dps without all the nonsense. If you need an instruction manual and a 20 button rotation to achieve decent dps, thats your problem. I dont. Rotations are for people who dont know how to play. Skills are situational and a combat environment dictates different skills are needed at different times. Rotations are for people who dont understand what skill is needed when, so the best way to teach them to be functional in a group is give them an instructional manual and sear it into their brain.

So go ahead and sit on your pedestal, and watch youtube videos, read articles, and spend hours shooting at dummy. Meanwhile, ill play the game. But dont act all superior with me because i dont play like you. I dont NEED to play like you. I use the most effective skills at the most effective times based on the situation. THAT is how i can still achieve good numbers without rotations, instruction manuals, videos, and dummy practice.

I bolded the important part for you since it seems to go over your head.

Protip: play a hardcore pvp game for a few years, where rotations dont work and you have to constantly react to humans instead of AI's in combat and you will learn to play like me, and you will toss meta BS out the window.

The difference between you and people that follow the meta is that they acomplished something, unlike you. If you feel that killing that one noob in pvp with your “super duper instinct based predator movements” is an acomplishment then sorry to burst your bubble, but it’s not. Why do some people feel the need to bash meta players that actually put in effort and work in what they do, because being a meta player means more than just copying a build, it also means theorycrafting and lots of testing. Not everyone can theorycraft or do tests so they would rather copy a build. Also, there’s no proof to back your claims either, I do not see any parse showing that you get more than a meta build so no, your playstyle is not objectively better as you try to say. Tactics from some games almost never translate well into another games. You could be #1 there but still suck here.

MLGProPlayer · April 2018

Smokewood wrote: »

It is really easy to look up what others have done and just copy them, but where's the fun?
I highly suggest developing your own builds through trial and error....

You'll still arrive at the same build through trial and error if you theory crafted properly.

Meta builds are "meta" because they are optimal.

Daimmyo · April 2018

You don't have to bother to look meta builds, just one build one time and you know them all > all the time.

Tasear · April 2018

Maryal wrote: »

Going with meta builds is helpful when you are new and don't really know what you are doing or what you are doing wrong (why you keep dying and the mob isn't). Think of it like training wheels.

Even if you're not new to the game, some people aren't interested in experimenting with builds, set combos, etc. and are perfectly happy to let others do that type of thinking for them.

Some people are analytical / creative and get a kick out of experimenting with different types of builds ... different types of set ups (gear, CPs, skills, etc). It's kind of hit or miss ... sometimes you end up with a flop, other times you hit the jack pot. This type of experimenting takes time and not everyone that plays the game has that kind of luxury (their game time is more limited).

There's was this one time...I thought a werewolf tank stamina nightblade was a great idea...I still have that character to shake my head at. I also have sorc healer and warcen healer. They worked out. So yes OP this person is right on.

notimetocare · April 2018

Smokewood wrote: »

It is really easy to look up what others have done and just copy them, but where's the fun?
I highly suggest developing your own builds through trial and error....

Honestly? If you are aiming to perform your best you are going to end up woth what others made already or similar. Its a pointless step for the majority of players. This is really a dumb suggestion.

People can:
Trial and error endlessly individually for a build and get basically the same build as most others (cuz numbers and math)

Copy the build from a handful of people that already did that.

Which is more logical?

usmcjdking · April 2018

I'm all about non-meta builds.

But do not lie to yourself. You need to be good at the game to begin with to make off meta work to any significant degree and even then it's still not that good. I had my meta TBS/VMA DW/VO/Veli setup a while and decided that the number pushing playstyle with everyone else was just not what I enjoyed spending my time doing.

Now I just queue into vet DLCs with a hybrid sorc, a werewolf or a tank in ravager with a bow because to me that is fun.

Nelson_Rebel · April 2018

The meta builds are used as templates for what direction people want to go.

people use the meta as guidlines for what gives consistent damage with positive results. Not everyone has the time to theorycraft. And no matter what kind of theorycrafting you do. numbers will be numbers and there will always be a limited number of viable options that give the neccessary damage and group capabilities to be effective

Spending hours and thousands of mats is not fun

Jsmalls · April 2018

Amen.

Destro/S&B Mag Sorc PvP
J smalls ©

GrigorijMalahevich · April 2018

Oh thanks man!

Now I’ve got all the confidence I required.

Datthaw · April 2018

I get what yall are saying, I don't run a meta build I have been running a ice staff magblade with winterborn or 2h with julianos and riposte depending on mood. Pvp there is more flexability for playstyle and gear combinations. PvE-wise seems pretty cut and paste if you want to do end game raids. But with the lack of originality most people are gonna run like an Alcast build or w/e.

But I do still believe that pvp, duels atleast, if you want to win vs equal opponent you are only gonna run a handful of setups. Like I'm sure during legend tourneys classes are wearing similar setups.

Nestor · April 2018

Rotations are far more important than gear in building a character. However, your playstyle also needs to be taken into consideration, what works for someone else may not work for you. I take ideas from the Theorycrafters, but I never follow them blindly, I prefer to roll my own.

Also, there are many different gear combos to get to 95%, or better, of the maximum, and unless you have a perfect rotation, your not going to really experience the difference between 95% and 100%.

So, pick the build that works best for you as that is the one you will have the most fun with. If it is a copy of some stated Meta somewhere, so be it, if is some other combo that lets you melt the mobs as you need to, then that works too.

Nestor · April 2018

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Spending hours and thousands of mats is not fun

No need to use one single mat:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:EsoBuildEditor

ErMurazor · April 2018

Premade builds are good as a template. From there u can fit and test different things to fit your playstyle and what u like.

Tasear · April 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Spending hours and thousands of mats is not fun

No need to use one single mat:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:EsoBuildEditor

It has mistakes in caluclations with sorc healing thought.

The resources calculation seems slightly off by1k my case.

But yes this best site for explored and theorycraftersm

Lexxypwns · April 2018

Here’s the deal, if someone has done numerous hours of testing they’re likely to have a better idea of what is and isn’t “good” than someone who hasn’t.

This means you either; Guess what’s “good”, test yourself, or copy a build and adjust to your play style.

Guessing isn’t a good way to make a build and testing requires time that some people don’t have, this simply leaves using an already tested build as the most logical option for many players.

Another thing to consider is perspective, someone may see or notice something you don’t that will make their build perform in a different or superior manner, by “copying” others builds you give yourself access to more perspective than just your own and therefore can get a more complete picture.

Every build I’ve ever made that I consider to be extremely OP has been the result of my own testing combined with thoughts and info I gained from others. It’s particular important to have that extra input on classes which you’re less experienced at.

Nelson_Rebel · April 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Spending hours and thousands of mats is not fun

No need to use one single mat:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:EsoBuildEditor

Yes there is a build calculator, but that calculator only shows potential values for just raw stats it doesn't include everything and in my use of it it has always been off.

You can follow a calculator or see a build and it's rotation with your own eyes on Youtube from someone who is literally showing you exactly how it performs.

Calculator's only show half of what something can do, it doesn't show parses or take into account group settings

People who have already done this HAVE taken this into account. Saving valuable time and materials before having to craft or waste time farming items to see for yourself