"Strife and its morphs have had their costs increased to be in-line with the cost of Force Pulse"

Drachenfier · April 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Honestly after looking over some things and the build freedom with the glorious jewelcrafting changes I have to agree it isn't really that much of a problem. Plus, they filtered heavy-attacks in as our main means of recovery. It is what it is.

However, I dont think it'll be that much of a problem.

Yea, I'm sure I'm making a bigger deal out of it than it really is, but to me it speaks to, perhaps, a deeper problem: They have no idea what they're doing.

Maulkin · April 2018

Drachenfier wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I'll adapt.
Sure, it sucks having to adapt but it's not as though we aren't getting a plethora of new toys to help us adapt this time around. I mean, between Jewelry traits and Psijic Skills (Infused Weapons will be mandatory so we'll have to adjust regardless)

More upset by Path nerf than Strife nerf TBH.

Adapting doesn't bother me, but seeing a weak ass AOE like Path get nerfed while Hurricane does so much damage just annoys the crap out of me.

Were you using Twisting Path over Refreshing Path in PvP

I've used both, and obviously the damage component for both is useless in pvp. Not so for Hurricane, mind you, so i'm not sure why Path is getting nerfed.

No reason given, just nerfing it.

So if the damage component is useless for PvP then this is a PvE nerf.

Which makes sense if you consider that MagBlade is by far and away the best Magicka DPS class with practically no second at the moment? Although I'd argue we'd need to see where stamina penetration nerfs and changes to sustain (Funnel has cost increase) leave the classes.

Not that I fully agree with the change, I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, but would you prefer if Incap/Soul Harvest or Cripple got nerfed instead? I'd wager not.

Honestly, I don't use them So I wouldn't care. I've stated many times that I play a Shadow Knight type NB, I don't stealth or incap....oh but I do use Cripple, so I take that back

But that's completely irrelevant. There's no reason given for this change, and that's because there's not one. They just picked a skill to nerf for the hell of it, apparently. It's a low damage conal aoe, it's one of the worst aoe's in the game.

And using force pulse as a benchmark for strife? Their only similarity is that they do damage. Wat

Now, speaking to the bolded part of your statement: If anything Path needed a buff. It's completely useless in pvp right now, as it stands.

The bolded statement makes no sense mate. They've given no reason for any of the changes yet, not just this one, because they haven't spoken to us about them and because they are not final.

But I've given a pretty good reason why that may be. Because they would probably and reasonably want to nerf Magblade DPS without hurting the class in PvP much.

It makes no sense? It's a crap ability in pvp and mediocre at best in pve. What possible justification could they have for nerfing Twisting Path? Have you ever seen a thread or a complaint anywhere at any time that gave any indication from any player that Path was OP in any way?

No, is the answer you're looking for. So again, I reiterate - there's no reason for this change. If nobody uses it in pvp, then the vast majority of the complaints against NB are ignored by this change, and it does nothing but screw those that use it in PvE.

You seem to not be acknowledging the problems with MagBlade dominance in PvE DPS, so fine suit yourself with being in an echo chamber and repeating "I see not reason" even though one is explained to you. Can't help you with that mate

Kihamai · April 2018

Seen this coming quite awhile ago. Just sad that it's actually happening.

I don't really care for the Twisting Path nerf, I used Refreshing Path in all content anyways. However that cost increase to strife sucks. Would be nice if they reverted the change of the Funnel Health morph, so that it once again heals two other allies rather than just one other ally, since they increased the base cost. Doubt it'll happen though.

RazorCaltrops · April 2018

Some people are concerned that they’ll be forced to heavy attacking but it’s not true.

You don’t even heavy attack once while playing Magicka Sorcerer anymore if your healer knows what he/she is doing, those days are over. (And yes, 3 spell damage glyphs)

Sustaining Force Pulse shouldn’t be an issue with Magblade especially with Siphoning Attacks. However it will force groups to get Asylum Perfected Inferno as it’s group utility and individual DPS potential via burning effect is simply unmatched when using Force Pulse.

Marabornwingrion · April 2018

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

Some people are concerned that they’ll be forced to heavy attacking but it’s not true.

You don’t even heavy attack once while playing Magicka Sorcerer anymore if your healer knows what he/she is doing, those days are over. (And yes, 3 spell damage glyphs)

Sustaining Force Pulse shouldn’t be an issue with Magblade especially with Siphoning Attacks. However it will force groups to get Asylum Perfected Inferno as it’s group utility and individual DPS potential via burning effect is simply unmatched when using Force Pulse.

Yup, and here is another issue. That weapon is quite hard to obtain for most players (I'm currently progressing through vAS +2 so I don't have it yet) and I'm not sure if non-perfected is worth slotting...

Abstraqt · April 2018

Wtf Zos

Why do you do this

HuawaSepp · April 2018

Astrid_V wrote: »

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

Some people are concerned that they’ll be forced to heavy attacking but it’s not true.

You don’t even heavy attack once while playing Magicka Sorcerer anymore if your healer knows what he/she is doing, those days are over. (And yes, 3 spell damage glyphs)

Sustaining Force Pulse shouldn’t be an issue with Magblade especially with Siphoning Attacks. However it will force groups to get Asylum Perfected Inferno as it’s group utility and individual DPS potential via burning effect is simply unmatched when using Force Pulse.

Yup, and here is another issue. That weapon is quite hard to obtain for most players (I'm currently progressing through vAS +2 so I don't have it yet) and I'm not sure if non-perfected is worth slotting...

Non perfect really isn't woth slotting.
But you can now use 4/5 acuity 5 bsw 2 monsterset and 0/1 msa too.
Still, for range fights 5 acuity 5 bsw/julianos/MD/architect 1/1 msa/perfect AS will be better imo.

Sorc will be the best dd again but i think nb won't struggle to get close in terms of dps in the future because templars and dks work like a softcap and the dps gap between nb/sorc and them is very big already.

aeowulf · April 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

They want everyone to have to do heavy attacks in their rotation to sustain. It's part of their new vision for the game it would seem for some God-forsaken reason.

Except dk/warden tanks.

ccfeeling · April 2018

MNB play style
Burst damage by Merciless Resolve which require 5 LA.
And strife is the key element during LA weaving , now Zos nerfed our key element,overall damages will be reduced, hell no.. :'(

Merciless Resolve will be nerfed too because we cannot control well our magicka, we cannot perform perfect rotation, if Zos is gonna nerf strife, please extend Merciless Resolve duration.
20 sec is not enough!

Maulkin · April 2018

ccfeeling wrote: »

MNB play style
Burst damage by Merciless Resolve which require 5 LA.
And strife is the key element during LA weaving , now Zos nerfed our key element,overall damages will be reduced, hell no.. :'(

Merciless Resolve will be nerfed too because we cannot control well our magicka, we cannot perform perfect rotation, if Zos is gonna nerf strife, please extend Merciless Resolve duration.
20 sec is not enough!

I assume you're talking about PvE DPS.

MagBlade still has the best sustain out of all Magicka classes dues to Siphoning Attacks. You still be able to maintain LA weaving if not for 100%, then at least 80% of your parse. I don't really foresee a big DPS loss from there. Although the combination of the Twisting Path nerf and this will probably bring it more inline with the other Mag DPS.

We would need to test it to see

BigBadVolk · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

MNB play style
Burst damage by Merciless Resolve which require 5 LA.
And strife is the key element during LA weaving , now Zos nerfed our key element,overall damages will be reduced, hell no.. :'(

Merciless Resolve will be nerfed too because we cannot control well our magicka, we cannot perform perfect rotation, if Zos is gonna nerf strife, please extend Merciless Resolve duration.
20 sec is not enough!

I assume you're talking about PvE DPS.

MagBlade still has the best sustain out of all Magicka classes dues to Siphoning Attacks. You still be able to maintain LA weaving if not for 100%, then at least 80% of your parse. I don't really foresee a big DPS loss from there. Although the combination of the Twisting Path nerf and this will probably bring it more inline with the other Mag DPS.

We would need to test it to see

It will be more of a dps gain tbh, its just funnel wont be usefull anymore if they will cost the same, and funnel will offer the same damage per one random overridable heal which is meh
even the extra magicka is like swapping twisting with crippling and ulti gain, you dont lose much with using FP instead of FH overall its kinda a nerf to diversity and buff to overall damage to magblades
in pvp ye its usable, but a mate tested that with perfected asylum staff and vMA resto staff a magblade is a beast but its a matter of person who runs what
and siphoning strikes is meh tbh, it helps but people overestimate it

Maulkin · April 2018

BigBadVolk wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

MNB play style
Burst damage by Merciless Resolve which require 5 LA.
And strife is the key element during LA weaving , now Zos nerfed our key element,overall damages will be reduced, hell no.. :'(

Merciless Resolve will be nerfed too because we cannot control well our magicka, we cannot perform perfect rotation, if Zos is gonna nerf strife, please extend Merciless Resolve duration.
20 sec is not enough!

I assume you're talking about PvE DPS.

MagBlade still has the best sustain out of all Magicka classes dues to Siphoning Attacks. You still be able to maintain LA weaving if not for 100%, then at least 80% of your parse. I don't really foresee a big DPS loss from there. Although the combination of the Twisting Path nerf and this will probably bring it more inline with the other Mag DPS.

We would need to test it to see

It will be more of a dps gain tbh, its just funnel wont be usefull anymore if they will cost the same, and funnel will offer the same damage per one random overridable heal which is meh
even the extra magicka is like swapping twisting with crippling and ulti gain, you dont lose much with using FP instead of FH overall its kinda a nerf to diversity and buff to overall damage to magblades
in pvp ye its usable, but a mate tested that with perfected asylum staff and vMA resto staff a magblade is a beast but its a matter of person who runs what
and siphoninh strikes is meh tbh, it helps but people overestimate it

Dunno about that. It's mathematically better than what every other class has for PvE.

It's better than Battle Roar and Betty Netch. MagPlars sustain skill requires them to be stationary and it's a waste on the bar. MagSorc's Dark Deal is terrible with the cast time and it's not used in PvE...

The combination of Siphoning Attacks and cheap Funnel Health is what permitted MagBlades to only light attack while everyone else had to heavy attack. How is that overestimated.

BigBadVolk · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

BigBadVolk wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

MNB play style
Burst damage by Merciless Resolve which require 5 LA.
And strife is the key element during LA weaving , now Zos nerfed our key element,overall damages will be reduced, hell no.. :'(

Merciless Resolve will be nerfed too because we cannot control well our magicka, we cannot perform perfect rotation, if Zos is gonna nerf strife, please extend Merciless Resolve duration.
20 sec is not enough!

I assume you're talking about PvE DPS.

MagBlade still has the best sustain out of all Magicka classes dues to Siphoning Attacks. You still be able to maintain LA weaving if not for 100%, then at least 80% of your parse. I don't really foresee a big DPS loss from there. Although the combination of the Twisting Path nerf and this will probably bring it more inline with the other Mag DPS.

We would need to test it to see

It will be more of a dps gain tbh, its just funnel wont be usefull anymore if they will cost the same, and funnel will offer the same damage per one random overridable heal which is meh
even the extra magicka is like swapping twisting with crippling and ulti gain, you dont lose much with using FP instead of FH overall its kinda a nerf to diversity and buff to overall damage to magblades
in pvp ye its usable, but a mate tested that with perfected asylum staff and vMA resto staff a magblade is a beast but its a matter of person who runs what
and siphoninh strikes is meh tbh, it helps but people overestimate it

Dunno about that. It's mathematically better than what every other class has for PvE.

It's better than Battle Roar and Betty Netch. MagPlars sustain skill requires them to be stationary and it's a waste on the bar. MagSorc's Dark Deal is terrible with the cast time and it's not used in PvE...

The combination of Siphoning Attacks and cheap Funnel Health is what permitted MagBlades to only light attack while everyone else had to heavy attack. How is that overestimated.

Well its just from personal experience, but I usually forget to reapply it, and still fine with sustain thanks to synergies ele and worm its better than those I agree on that, but if you forgot to apply it (PVE mostly) you will still be fine, but its usefull in 3dd runs where I dont have those buffs for my sustain, but those are minority but tbh its mostly the new gold food that helps a lot more with sustain imo and from personal experience

Drachenfier · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I'll adapt.
Sure, it sucks having to adapt but it's not as though we aren't getting a plethora of new toys to help us adapt this time around. I mean, between Jewelry traits and Psijic Skills (Infused Weapons will be mandatory so we'll have to adjust regardless)

More upset by Path nerf than Strife nerf TBH.

Adapting doesn't bother me, but seeing a weak ass AOE like Path get nerfed while Hurricane does so much damage just annoys the crap out of me.

Were you using Twisting Path over Refreshing Path in PvP

I've used both, and obviously the damage component for both is useless in pvp. Not so for Hurricane, mind you, so i'm not sure why Path is getting nerfed.

No reason given, just nerfing it.

So if the damage component is useless for PvP then this is a PvE nerf.

Which makes sense if you consider that MagBlade is by far and away the best Magicka DPS class with practically no second at the moment? Although I'd argue we'd need to see where stamina penetration nerfs and changes to sustain (Funnel has cost increase) leave the classes.

Not that I fully agree with the change, I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, but would you prefer if Incap/Soul Harvest or Cripple got nerfed instead? I'd wager not.

Honestly, I don't use them So I wouldn't care. I've stated many times that I play a Shadow Knight type NB, I don't stealth or incap....oh but I do use Cripple, so I take that back

But that's completely irrelevant. There's no reason given for this change, and that's because there's not one. They just picked a skill to nerf for the hell of it, apparently. It's a low damage conal aoe, it's one of the worst aoe's in the game.

And using force pulse as a benchmark for strife? Their only similarity is that they do damage. Wat

Now, speaking to the bolded part of your statement: If anything Path needed a buff. It's completely useless in pvp right now, as it stands.

The bolded statement makes no sense mate. They've given no reason for any of the changes yet, not just this one, because they haven't spoken to us about them and because they are not final.

But I've given a pretty good reason why that may be. Because they would probably and reasonably want to nerf Magblade DPS without hurting the class in PvP much.

It makes no sense? It's a crap ability in pvp and mediocre at best in pve. What possible justification could they have for nerfing Twisting Path? Have you ever seen a thread or a complaint anywhere at any time that gave any indication from any player that Path was OP in any way?

No, is the answer you're looking for. So again, I reiterate - there's no reason for this change. If nobody uses it in pvp, then the vast majority of the complaints against NB are ignored by this change, and it does nothing but screw those that use it in PvE.

You seem to not be acknowledging the problems with MagBlade dominance in PvE DPS, so fine suit yourself with being in an echo chamber and repeating "I see not reason" even though one is explained to you. Can't help you with that mate

I'm not seeing any Magblade "pve" dominance, or complaints related to such. What I am seeing is Magblade pvp dominance, and these changes do absolutely nothing to rectify that.

f047ys3v3n · April 2018

Force pulse has been a lot more damage than funnel since somewhere around 1.6 (believe it or not funnel was substantially more damage year one of the game.)

Force pulse:
1) Has a higher base damage.
2) Cannot be reflected in PVP.
3) procs sets better as it counts as 3 separate elemental attacks.
4) Applys status effects especially if you have the AS staff. (don't you want an AS staff.)
5) One of the attacks is fire so gets 7% dark elf and x% dk in your group passive damage buff.
6) Does a little extra damage from it's passive AOE.
7) Is a staff skill so gets some passives from that.

The now twice nerfed funnel heal is really not worth much heal on the compensatory side. People are souly using funnel for the cheaper cost at this point and the cheaper cost mostly matters to them because they are trying to multi-proc that huge *** mess that ZOS has made of a relentless focus rotation. Obviously nobody will use funnel at the new cost. It really wasn't that good a deal currently.

My predictions:
1) Badasses will switch to force pulse and somehow be able to still sustain a pure LA rotation. They will claim it's buffs or this or that. They are running cheat engine to sustain currently and will be still be running it post update so will still sustain ok. There dps will consequently improve as force pulse is much higher dps and NB will look to ZOS like it needs even more nerfs.

2) Most other folks will drop funnel for force pulse. They will have even worse sustain, lower dps, and realize that they are now playing mNB for a nerfed twisting path and a weak dot in crippling. They will leave either leave the class because it will be lacking or get some cheat engine themselves.

Bottom line, I do agree with Astrid. A funnel cost increase to the cost of force pulse is pretty class breaking for NB. It is the primary class heal, the spam-able, and the reason that mNB's are ranged. It really hasn't been that great since the 2x heal nerfs and the 2x cost increases. To put it in perspective, I remember when the thing cost 600 magica and healed 3 people with double crits. If you couple this change with a twisting nerf it is even more class killing. The best way to address a mNB perceived superiority would be relentless focus as that skill has been constantly butchered and has lead to a nightmare of a rotation. It is so colossally screwed up now though that the moron in chief Wrobel is probably happy with it.

Silver_Strider · April 2018

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Force pulse has been a lot more damage than funnel since somewhere around 1.6 (believe it or not funnel was substantially more damage year one of the game.)

Force pulse:
1) Has a higher base damage.
2) Cannot be reflected in PVP.
3) procs sets better as it counts as 3 separate elemental attacks.
4) Applys status effects especially if you have the AS staff. (don't you want an AS staff.)
5) One of the attacks is fire so gets 7% dark elf and x% dk in your group passive damage buff.
6) Does a little extra damage from it's passive AOE.
7) Is a staff skill so gets some passives from that.

The now twice nerfed funnel heal is really not worth much heal on the compensatory side. People are souly using funnel for the cheaper cost at this point and the cheaper cost mostly matters to them because they are trying to multi-proc that huge *** mess that ZOS has made of a relentless focus rotation. Obviously nobody will use funnel at the new cost. It really wasn't that good a deal currently.

My predictions:
1) Badasses will switch to force pulse and somehow be able to still sustain a pure LA rotation. They will claim it's buffs or this or that. They are running cheat engine to sustain currently and will be still be running it post update so will still sustain ok. There dps will consequently improve as force pulse is much higher dps and NB will look to ZOS like it needs even more nerfs.

2) Most other folks will drop funnel for force pulse. They will have even worse sustain, lower dps, and realize that they are now playing mNB for a nerfed twisting path and a weak dot in crippling. They will leave either leave the class because it will be lacking or get some cheat engine themselves.

Bottom line, I do agree with Astrid. A funnel cost increase to the cost of force pulse is pretty class breaking for NB. It is the primary class heal, the spam-able, and the reason that mNB's are ranged. It really hasn't been that great since the 2x heal nerfs and the 2x cost increases. To put it in perspective, I remember when the thing cost 600 magica and healed 3 people with double crits. If you couple this change with a twisting nerf it is even more class killing. The best way to address a mNB perceived superiority would be relentless focus as that skill has been constantly butchered and has lead to a nightmare of a rotation. It is so colossally screwed up now though that the moron in chief Wrobel is probably happy with it.

Class Destroying is a bit strong, don't you think? I mean, if we really look at it, MagSorc and MagBlade are currently the only 2 Magic Classes that matter at end game but MagBlade is pulling higher numbers than MagSorc while also providing off-healing with Funnel so it was only a matter of time before something was changed to bring it back in line. I don't agree that Strife or Path were the right skills to nerf for this to occur but it is what it is and we'll adapt to it.

jaws343 · April 2018

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Force pulse has been a lot more damage than funnel since somewhere around 1.6 (believe it or not funnel was substantially more damage year one of the game.)

Force pulse:
1) Has a higher base damage.
2) Cannot be reflected in PVP.
3) procs sets better as it counts as 3 separate elemental attacks.
4) Applys status effects especially if you have the AS staff. (don't you want an AS staff.)
5) One of the attacks is fire so gets 7% dark elf and x% dk in your group passive damage buff.
6) Does a little extra damage from it's passive AOE.
7) Is a staff skill so gets some passives from that.

The now twice nerfed funnel heal is really not worth much heal on the compensatory side. People are souly using funnel for the cheaper cost at this point and the cheaper cost mostly matters to them because they are trying to multi-proc that huge *** mess that ZOS has made of a relentless focus rotation. Obviously nobody will use funnel at the new cost. It really wasn't that good a deal currently.

My predictions:
1) Badasses will switch to force pulse and somehow be able to still sustain a pure LA rotation. They will claim it's buffs or this or that. They are running cheat engine to sustain currently and will be still be running it post update so will still sustain ok. There dps will consequently improve as force pulse is much higher dps and NB will look to ZOS like it needs even more nerfs.

2) Most other folks will drop funnel for force pulse. They will have even worse sustain, lower dps, and realize that they are now playing mNB for a nerfed twisting path and a weak dot in crippling. They will leave either leave the class because it will be lacking or get some cheat engine themselves.

Bottom line, I do agree with Astrid. A funnel cost increase to the cost of force pulse is pretty class breaking for NB. It is the primary class heal, the spam-able, and the reason that mNB's are ranged. It really hasn't been that great since the 2x heal nerfs and the 2x cost increases. To put it in perspective, I remember when the thing cost 600 magica and healed 3 people with double crits. If you couple this change with a twisting nerf it is even more class killing. The best way to address a mNB perceived superiority would be relentless focus as that skill has been constantly butchered and has lead to a nightmare of a rotation. It is so colossally screwed up now though that the moron in chief Wrobel is probably happy with it.

You cannot bemoan the cost increase by calling funnel health the primary class heal without taking into account the updated cloak morph that will provide more self healing on demand than funnel health.

xbobx · April 2018

It is the primary class heal, the spam-able, and the reason that mNB's are ranged

now they have the change to cloak to be the primary class heal
What is wrong with concealed weapon? is it not viable? it adds hp and defense
ranged - maybe they dont want magblade to be ranged. To me its completely out of character to sit back with a staff in hand.

nightblades are stealthy melee classes imo.

would concealed weapon not be very easy to weave with light attack?