Balance is when the best players on the server run multiple setups. When trials are all Nightnlades and PvP death recaps are all 2H and leathal arrow and everyones on a blade - it's not balance.

To me it means that I can cover all roles with every class with different mechanics but same results

what if I told you Balance dosent exist

Character 1 *copy*
*paste*
*paste*
*paste*
*paste*
*paste*
...

Buff me, nerf everyone else

Balance is when the class you choose to main is fun to play. For min/maxers there will never be balance and for the majority of people who simply play MMOs for fun there is always balance.

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Balance as most players know it is a lack of flavor. A bland, boring, homogenized world where everyone might as well be reduced to one hit point. A game where every single variable is removed, you are never surprised, and competition is dead.

Imbalance is the true balance.

Just because homogenization is the path most developers take because they can't be bothered to spend their precious time constantly numbers tuning doesn't mean it's the only way balance could happen.

The problem isn't that things get nerfed or buffed, it's that they don't happen rapidly enough. We should be seeing WEEKLY tweaks to whatever the top and bottom performers are until they're all relatively similar. And don't do snap reactions either. Small, incremental changes until it's perfect.

Again, this would require at least one dev to dedicate his entire life to just doing this, and game companies seem to not really give a crap about what is the single most important aspect to me, so I never expect it to happen and instead they'll resort to lazy implementations like homogenization, but don't make the mistake of thinking that is actually the only way.

To me, balance means classes can perform equally well, albeit in different ways, in all facets of gameplay.

For PvE, there's very simple metrics. Go take a look at the vMA leaderboards for the week. Sorcs and NBs will have full leaderboards. DKs and Templars usually don't go past 50 each. Wardens have even less than that. See the problem? Clearly some classes just don't perform as well, given the same amount of skill and effort on part of player. If someone presses 2 buttons and facerolls their way through vMA on MagSorc, then the class needs to be redesigned to be more challenging. Not necessarily weaker, but more challenging. And so on.

Slightly harder to prove, but if you look at ease of tasks like tanking endgame content (vet DLC dungeons and trials), the main tank is almost always a DK. And there's very good reasons for that. Meanwhile, a Sorc is almost never a main tank, and again there's reasons for that. Needs to be addressed and balanced. And so on, and so forth.

In PvP, for example DK can perform well in a duel, but doesn't do well in open world Cyrodiil. And so on, and so on.

In my view, the game is very, very, very poorly balanced. Not completely broken, but there's a tangible, palpable difference in class strengths in various aspects of the game.

Now, I can totally accept that the game's class system can be hard to balance. Which is fine, but if you can't balance it, abandon the class system! Remove classes, move abilities into a single pool, and let us choose what we want. Many MMOs have done this (EVE Online, etc) with excellent results. This also matches the lore of Elder Scrolls, where we've been able to create a custom class for quite a while, and recent game(s?) had no classes at all. But of course ZOS won't, because they don't want to lose the ability to sell us new classes. Even though it would be just as easy to sell us skill lines (see Psijic skill line). Just do it!


EDIT: I also deeply, strongly disagree that rock-paper-scissors qualifies as balance. It's the complete opposite of balance. With RPS, if you are R and run into P, you just lose. Which isn't entertaining or fun for either participant. The idea that RPS somehow works in group setting is also ridiculous, since every XvX can subdivide into 1v1 + 1v1 + 1v1 = XvX. And if 1v1 isn't balanced, XvX is by definition not balanced. A true balance is when every class is a threat and an even 50:50 win/lose for every other class, all else being equal, in every scenario. You may get to be a threat by different means - pressure vs burst (ESO fails at this, burst is by far the most effective means, and almost always required to get the kill), direct damage vs DoTs, instant heals vs HoTs, etc.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rock, Paper, Scissors.

this

I don't believe in balance in ESO.

It seems that a lot of people have different theories on what balance in this game means.

ThinkerOfThings wrote: »

My question is, what does balance mean to you and what would be you ideal balance if you could make changes to ESO?

Balance is:
There exists a counter to an action that's reasonable.

Balance is where every class has a viable and needed role in leveling, pvp, and end game content.

My example of imbalance goes way back to my first MMO which is EverQuest (the original). Back then the best classes to level were druids and shamens because they could cast a buff that allowed them to run fast. Then they could kite mobs that were 30 levels higher then them. Grinding was the only way to advance in that game so this mattered a lot. In pvp the most viable class was a wizard because they did the most damage that didn't rely on equipment. Since if you died folks could loot your stuff the naked wizard became pretty powerful.

it should mean that if a character with a 2h lands a successful wrecking blow/dizzy swing on me i should have more than a 25% chance to win...it shouldn't mean "seemingly" minutes on the ground getting the *** pounded out of me.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Rock is OP!! paper is fine
- scissors

That's basically what I see on the forums when anyone complains about balance.

To me, balance is basically saying I can do the same DPS on any character with comparable gear. The problem with this is the min-maxers - See above quote. They do not want balance. They want to be able to faceroll anyone in 1v1, Xv1, or 1vX.