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DK changes. Its not ALL doom and gloom and a step in the right direction. More can be done.

ak_pvp
ak_pvp
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Some Summerset changes were announced. Obviously it is pre PTS, so a lot can (But probably won't unless you are a sorc) change. However this is a view on what they are as of now. A note: Many of the DK players on the forums are viewing this as negative. If you remember back to last patch, they thought the same. Some claimed the changes would be a buff. However in practice, those who thought it was a nerf were correct, and powerlash was hit very heavily to the point that over half of them miss. I think it is wise to trust them on predicitons on how it will affect the class. Especially concerning PvP, whilst PvE tests seem to show an buff, which I think too. PvP is a lot more volatile and has more variables than that.


The sustain changes:
  • Amounts to around 200 regen when attacking an enemy with fire/poison status effect on them. This for PvE is great, it matches DK up with the rest of the classes passive regen wise. This, combined with set and itemization changes makes MagDKs promising, and may even be comparable to a low end stamDD. The heavy drain problem caused by expensive abilities is still a concern, but can be worked around.
  • For PvP, it also seems decently promising, however not enough to combat the heavy drain of PvP skills, many DKs run 2x sustain sets, that will most likely not change. It does have some caveats in being based around status effects. It won't proc on shielded opponents, or on races with immunity, and may be problematic vs templars. You also lack the hard rotation to guarantee on cooldown procs, but for Mag, it will still be close to maximum. For stamina however many only run 1/2 poison abilities. Venomous and maybe nox. Because of these, I assume will be changed to be based around dots, so if you damage someone with a fire/poison dot on them it will restore.

The heal changes: They are really trying to press this in aren't they? OK then, new roles seem fun.
  • Cauterize: 28m range. This is still an incredibly underwhelming ability. It hits for a decent amount (Around 10K+ buffed in PvE) however fundamentally it is awful. 4 man it isn't needed. 12 man its useless. Every 5s and single target is never going to be useful. It is borderline usable as an ST HoT in PvP (CP specifically) since it has a very low cost and is OK for topping up without having to use the expensive dragon blood. This is what should have been the AoE heal. It would be 4 ticks, centered on you, and affect anyone in it. It would be unique, useful, and pretty thematic. In real life, fire is used to sterilize things and remove nasty after effects. This could be translated in game as a purge. Nothing massive. Only 4 effects max over 15s, but again, this could provide group utility and allow DK healers to stand out, but not as much as templars, in some content, i.e. First boss nHoF.
  • Obsidian shard: Why is this a thing? Why is stonefist a thing? Please stop it. I'm asking nicely. Another single target burst heal, but at least it is on demand. It has very wonky mechanics though in that you have to hit an enemy. Same issues as cauterize. Its not needed in 4man, healing springs and mutagen is more than enough. And it will be laughed out the trial in a 12 man. The entire ability should be revamped into the DK pull, and chains becomes something else or a dedicated gapcloser. A tectonic pull would fit the theme of a DK much better. The stun isn't "interesting" or even useful at all. Fossilize synergizes too well with DKs, and despite the ranged changes hurting what was defacto gapclosing, the QoL to this ability was nice.
  • Ash cloud: OK, this one seems promising. An AoE targetted burst heal. It seems useful. Depending on the magnitude of the heal, assuming it is comparable to a BoL, this could be very good, healing 6 stacked people to full wheras a BoL could do 3. Reimplementing evasion instead of the enemy snare to this could also be very interesting. A DK healer giving a burst and 15% dodge chance for those in it. If it seems too OP, then remove the user from it. But it would offer a DK healer a unique buff to aid a tank.
  • Obsidian shield: Many are calling it a buff. It is not. It is very similar to what happened to crystal blast, just over a few patches. Where one morph is nerfed, and the extra effect is moved/kept on the other morph. Igneous shield was 6s+increased. Now it is 3s+increased and 5s respectively. Many MagDKs will still not run it, because 2x DB is better but at least it offers two distinct morphs with some use, one for healers/StamDK, where the size is negligible, and the other for tanks.
The suggested changes to cauterize and cinder storm may seem strong, but as anyone knows. To legitimately dethrone a templar, DK will need enough useful, unique buffs that make them worth taking. Even warden couldn't. Just buffing pure healing won't work, and 2/3 of the heal changes will not change anything. (Obsid+cauterize)

The wings changes: My disappointment is immeasurable. It was once the Dragonknight's staple defensive ability. But it has been snipped.

Snare removal is not enough. Everyone playing knows how frequent snares/roots are, if you are affected by a DKs dot, or in an AoE, you will be snared directly after. Which is utterly useless. DK have no escape, no worthwhile class defense, and no usable mobility, relying on block, a self snare. To say that a small amount of mobility could make the DK OP in cyro is frankly untrue. Moving from the bottom 3 open world would be great, and snare removal is something a melee fighter is in need of, especially an already slow one. No one is dropping mist/FM for this.

Its magnitude of reflects are too low. I am not saying they should be infinite. And it may be quite strong in a 1v1. But is is much too weak, especially in comparison to shimmering. Against multiple projectile using targets, it is over in 1s. That is assuming it even reflects the projectile. Weave+attack x2. 4k magicka, expended for 1s of reflection. It is frankly not worth using outside of certain niches.

I implore you to look into the reflect portion wings, especially since the type of attacks is limited to projectiles, and even then it disincludes shades,* ballista, meteor, pulse, and bird. The base wings should be: 4s. Lower the cap to 3 projectiles. But make the projectiles reflected per person. Heck, even make the base morph+snare removal a deflect, and the fire wings a reflect. At least then the DK can have a usable class defense. It would be weaker in a 1v1, as the magnitude and duration are reduced, but would scale better, like a defense like, cloak which has no limits on the amount of ST attacks, and dots it can suppress.

*IIRC: If the per target changes go through, then the shade should be counted separately.

TL;DR PvE: Promising. PvP: Underwhelming changes to pain points.

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Edited by ak_pvp on April 3, 2018 11:39PM
MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Reserved.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Riggsy
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    You're trying awful hard to see that silver lining. And again PVP stamDKs get boned/ignored. How about, instead of ZOS trying to "fix" unused mag abilities they just give us a stam morph... I'll take a stam stonefist.
    MMAGA - We Made Medium Armor Great Again
    Evasion: Casting this ability and its morphs now requires that you wear 5 pieces of Medium Armor.

    Woe Biden - Mule
    Donald Thump - Mule
    M'aiq Pence - Mule
  • Avran_Sylt
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    Why not give it a 1s window where it causes all ranged projectiles to miss, followed by reflecting projectiles.

    The wings "turbulence", followed by the "scales" reflect period.

    At least, that's my opinion from a Nightblade point of view.
    Edited by Avran_Sylt on April 3, 2018 11:18PM
  • srfrogg23
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    I’ve been working my best Chicken Little impression. You really mean to tell me I did all that for nothing?
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Avran_Sylt wrote: »
    Why not give it a 1s window where it causes all ranged projectiles to miss, followed by reflecting projectiles.

    The wings "turbulence", followed by the "scales" reflect period.

    At least, that's my opinion from a Nightblade point of view.

    Not a bad idea. Allows you to use it reactively when you have a lot of projectiles inc. The duration is too short and it give a proactive use to the level of cloak or streak, where you can cast prior and be in a safer spot for later. If you cast this prior, the turbulance part will be over when the projectiles arrive, and they will all pummel you through the reflect.

    Granted, it is still a good idea for skill based play.

    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    srfrogg23 wrote: »
    I’ve been working my best Chicken Little impression. You really mean to tell me I did all that for nothing?

    I mean, the changes themselves were quite poor. But we can see from the initial implements that they understand a MagDKs pain points. StamDK would need a complete new class revamp, like stam talons, (dot morph, tanks use other) poison damage on hardened, corrosive rework, stam essence. Physical petrify etc.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • VaranisArano
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    I'm apparently that odd duck who actually likes tanking on my MagDK, so I'm actually fine with the changes.
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    I'm apparently that odd duck who actually likes tanking on my MagDK, so I'm actually fine with the changes.

    It doesn't appear like any of the changes actually benefit tanking. Cauterize now will fly off more often, due to the range changes. Obsidian shard is bad. Wings won't change anything, and tanks will still use igneous shield. Maybe a 200~ mag regen from engulfing? (because you probably don't use poison)
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Ragnarock41
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    I'm probably rerolling to magDk. Seems like now is the time.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 4, 2018 12:43AM
  • Abysswarrior45
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    stam whip please...
  • Savos_Saren
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    I prefer to stay on the objective side of things until the PTS comes out. Honestly, though, it sucks that we can no longer Empower a Leap. That was as close as an execute that we could get.

    I'm also wondering if the Bloodthirst ring trait will help out with a DK. Since ZOS is homogenizing all the classes... are we finally going to get an execute?
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • ak_pvp
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    I'm probably rerolling to magDk. Seems like now is the time.

    I don't know. If this is it. Don't bother. In practice a PvP MagDK gets: Some sustain... yay... Definitely allows MagDK to compete with the likes of NB or warden... not. You have probably heard the powerlash horror stories. The land under half the time, its quite saddening.

    But if they make reflect good, and give wings snare immunity (which I think they will tbh) it will be one of the best without being OP.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • CaliMade
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    Im happy with these changes

    Wings work fine for me if they dont get glitchy

    That snare removal is actually clutch, all you need is a split second of mobility to reposition yourself out of LOS, your grossly underestimating this.

    The 500 mag/stam from burning/poison is Great. I've said before that low sustain keeps magDk’s learning curve. The harder they are to play, the less they will be played. Last thing i want is 20 scrub dks spamming talons on me. I also run 1400 stam recovery on my Stam dk with no sustain issues in medium. This will allow me to drop my regen even futher for more damage, survivability,or healing.

    Cinderstorm is amasing

    Fragmented shield is amazing for mag and stam dk. Now stam dk can have full major mending vigor again.

    I still hit 6-7k average stone fists when i use it. If i use destro i drop fossilize for it no question. Your really dont use it if you dont see the PVP damage potential of this skill. The buff is pretty useless to me, my spell resist is already so high that most mag builds are minor annoyances to my mag dk (Light armor). I say slap major heroism (if it CC’s) on it instead.

    And Magdk is most definitley not bottom three classes in pvp. Low tier yea but Stam dk and both mag/stam sorc severely suck turkey eggs.

    mag sorcs are actually rather pathetic outside of their busted Execute. Poking you with a twig from afar and Occasionally dropping soft ass dawnbreakers.(this skill goes through block sometimes. Ill try to remember to record it next time it happens)

    Stam dks Might as well be floating torso’s that stink so bad every player who touches them gets an uncurable case of major defile.

    Stam sorcs are either unkillable feather dusters or squishy mosquito’s.

    Im A Mag Dk player through and through but sometimes we just need to know when to leave well enough alone.

    I know Dks need some love. But we all have seen first hand, with these immortal stamblades this patch, that just a little buff can go a long way.



    XB1 GT- Cali Made


    Praetorian Stam DK Redguard

    Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard

    Major Mag DK Dark Elf

    lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
  • DoctorESO
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    DKs also lose the unique ability to chain pull. Everyone will be able to do it with the Fighter's Guild skill Silver Leash, which will pull targets to you instead of the other way around.

    The monopoly has ended.
  • VaranisArano
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    DoctorESO wrote: »
    DKs also lose the unique ability to chain pull. Everyone will be able to do it with the Fighter's Guild skill Silver Leash, which will pull targets to you instead of the other way around.

    The monopoly has ended.

    And with it, one of the things that locks DKs into being tanks. ZOS has to buff other class's tanking abilities relative to DKs if DKs are ever going to be more than tanks.
  • Ragnarock41
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    I'm probably rerolling to magDk. Seems like now is the time.

    I don't know. If this is it. Don't bother. In practice a PvP MagDK gets: Some sustain... yay... Definitely allows MagDK to compete with the likes of NB or warden... not. You have probably heard the powerlash horror stories. The land under half the time, its quite saddening.

    But if they make reflect good, and give wings snare immunity (which I think they will tbh) it will be one of the best without being OP.

    I never had an undodgeable spammable anyways, so I think I will do just fine. We'll see though, Its still early to reroll.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 4, 2018 2:53AM
  • Narvuntien
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    MagDks got HUGE buffs. The 2h counting as two is also amazing considering how strong the monster sets are for them.

    PVP Dks get an ability to remove snares.

    Dk healers might actually be seen now.

    Yeah they are losing the tanking monopoly, hopefully, but I expect that they will continue to be BIS.
  • Lynx7386
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    Igneous did not get nerfed, it still has the 2.5 second major mending and a stronger shield. Fragmented has a 5 second major mending as that morph's "benefit". One is for tanks, the other is for healers.
    PS4 / NA
    M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
    Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
    Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
    Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
    Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    MagDks got HUGE buffs. The 2h counting as two is also amazing considering how strong the monster sets are for them.

    PVP Dks get an ability to remove snares.

    Dk healers might actually be seen now.

    Yeah they are losing the tanking monopoly, hopefully, but I expect that they will continue to be BIS.

    The ability to remove snares is useless as said before. Have a DK dot on you? Snared. On an AoE. Snared. For all its faults, mist gets you from A to B. With wings, you are at A and get snared again.

    DK still relies on block, so that will most likely stay, I expect more to run 2h for FM though. Not many will run staves in PvP. If wings is a viable defense, then yes. Maybe. But for now, s/b DK is going to last.
    Lynx7386 wrote: »
    Igneous did not get nerfed, it still has the 2.5 second major mending and a stronger shield. Fragmented has a 5 second major mending as that morph's "benefit". One is for tanks, the other is for healers.

    Igneous got nerfed. It used to be 6s. It is now 3s. Frag is now 5s, but with the smaller shield.
    Edited by ak_pvp on April 4, 2018 3:36AM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
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