Is 20k dps on a target dummy good?

Gothlander · April 2018

I'm just getting into pve and am running krag monster set, 5 spriggan and 5 hunding on a imperial stamplar. I golded out the daggers everything else is purple.

Turelus · April 2018

It's a good base yes.

Depending on class and personal skill level it can go much higher but 20k on a dummy would be enough to do all the veteran content. In a good group with penetration and buffs factored in that would go up.

If you're looking to get them higher I would recommend looking at where you're falling down with the damage (if you use PC/Mac combat metrics is a great add-on for this) and working on rotations and higher powered sets. It's worth nothing the meta and best in slot gears may change a lot in two months so if you don't have the spare money you're better saving gold tempers until then.

Asardes · April 2018

No. It means that you have big issues with your rotation, stats, CP and basically everything else. It should be around 27-30K even with that basic gear. Also it matters where you have the items. Spriggan is best used on the jewelry and 2 armor pieces in order to have it on both bars. Otherwise it will fall off on the back bar so the skills you apply there will hit for far less, or even continue to hit for far less in the case of Poison Injection since that copies the stats from the 1st tick. I suggest getting a parse addon and checking your parse of Minor Force up time (should be 100%), Power of the Light up time (should be > 85%) heavy and light attack damage (should be ~15% of your DPS).

Gothlander · April 2018

Asardes wrote: »

No. It means that you have big issues with your rotation, stats, CP and basically everything else. It should be around 27-30K even with that basic gear. Also it matters where you have the items. Spriggan is best used on the jewelry and 2 armor pieces in order to have it on both bars. Otherwise it will fall off on the back bar so the skills you apply there will hit for far less, or even continue to hit for far less in the case of Poison Injection since that copies the stats from the 1st tick. I suggest getting a parse addon and checking your parse of Minor Force up time (should be 100%), Power of the Light up time (should be > 85%) heavy and light attack damage (should be ~15% of your DPS).

I do have spriggan jewelry and two armor pieces. My bow and daggers are hunding. So when I switch to bow I lose out on the 5th bonus of hunding. I copied my cp set up from alcast site. I know to keep up dots on the target dummy. But 27k seems pretty hard to do.

Gothlander · April 2018

Does it matter what target dummy I am using? It's the small skeleton. Should I try the bigger dungeon dummy? I'm at work so can't right now.

DocFrost72 · April 2018

Asardes wrote: »

No. It means that you have big issues with your rotation, stats, CP and basically everything else. It should be around 27-30K even with that basic gear. Also it matters where you have the items. Spriggan is best used on the jewelry and 2 armor pieces in order to have it on both bars. Otherwise it will fall off on the back bar so the skills you apply there will hit for far less, or even continue to hit for far less in the case of Poison Injection since that copies the stats from the 1st tick. I suggest getting a parse addon and checking your parse of Minor Force up time (should be 100%), Power of the Light up time (should be > 85%) heavy and light attack damage (should be ~15% of your DPS).

First, you're right about both bars being important. Poison injection changes to match changes in stats each tick now, it was changed after a bug that stopped its scaling. Test it. Endless hail and caltrops do the same.

That, and I wouldn't say basic gear and first attempt would net you 27 to 30k, but I will agree that the big issue is rotation.

FakeFox · April 2018

It's far from the top, but it's not all that bad. I think you have a solid basis to work with here, but you should really improve your gear. Everything else comes with practice, analysing parses, finding mistakes.

And yes, it matters a lot which dummy you use.

Turelus · April 2018

Gothlander wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

No. It means that you have big issues with your rotation, stats, CP and basically everything else. It should be around 27-30K even with that basic gear. Also it matters where you have the items. Spriggan is best used on the jewelry and 2 armor pieces in order to have it on both bars. Otherwise it will fall off on the back bar so the skills you apply there will hit for far less, or even continue to hit for far less in the case of Poison Injection since that copies the stats from the 1st tick. I suggest getting a parse addon and checking your parse of Minor Force up time (should be 100%), Power of the Light up time (should be > 85%) heavy and light attack damage (should be ~15% of your DPS).

I do have spriggan jewelry and two armor pieces. My bow and daggers are hunding. So when I switch to bow I lose out on the 5th bonus of hunding. I copied my cp set up from alcast site. I know to keep up dots on the target dummy. But 27k seems pretty hard to do.

It's all about upkeep of dots and rotation skills.
Have you also factored in your penetration or have friends assist you with buffs?
If you're comparing to any videos of others doing parses make sure you're keeping an eye on their pen vs your own.

Watching someone like Alcast then checking your DPS parse info (from combat metrics) vs your own should highlight where you can improve. Landing light attacks between each skill etc.

Illurian · April 2018

Gothlander wrote: »

Does it matter what target dummy I am using? It's the small skeleton. Should I try the bigger dungeon dummy? I'm at work so can't right now.

The minimum should be the 3mil target dummy. However, more serious PvE'ers feel that even the 3 mil dummy is far too bursty a fight, and would thus be an inaccurate parse.

Thus, the most accurate test for your sustained DPS is the 6mil (robust) target dummy.

Asardes · April 2018

Stamina Templar can't be really that low since I've seen some experienced players hit ~35K on them at the 6M dummy. Sets don't really matter more than 3-5% I don't have Templar but I can hit ~28K on Stam Warden and ~34K on Stam DK, and Warden is probably the lowest parsing classes. And that's w/o any penetration sets, with Warrior mundus; on top of that I'm bad at weaving bow LA. I can't really see how you can be at just 20K on any class, unless the rotation is a complete mess. One way it may happen is lack of sustain, when the player has no more stamina to reapply DoTs at some point, because HA weave is not happening on front bar. You need to heavy attack with every skill on front bar if you want to sustain. Templar has no sustain passives, besides a slight cost reduction, since you can't repent the skeleton you are just killing.

Gothlander · April 2018

Im at 655 cp forgot to mention. I use recount to check my dps. Maybe download metrics when I get home to see what I'm doing wrong.

Gothlander · April 2018

Where does a stamplar get minor force from? I'm at work so I can't check my skills and stuff.

Asardes · April 2018

655 and 720 is almost the same, probably less than 1% difference in DPS due to CP, since they are so front heavy. For example by putting 56 CP out of 100 in a star you already gain 80% of the maximum potential buff in that star. Also be sure you don't get caught between break points, basically keep adding CP until you go to an integer with a small decimal after it, ex. stop at 20.1%, but never at 20.8% since that 0.8% will be wasted. The game always rounds down those.

Gothlander · April 2018

Asardes wrote: »

655 and 720 is almost the same, probably less than 1% difference in DPS due to CP, since they are so front heavy. For example by putting 56 CP out of 100 in a star you already gain 80% of the maximum potential buff in that star. Also be sure you don't get caught between break points, basically keep adding CP until you go to an integer with a small decimal after it, ex. stop at 20.1%, but never at 20.8% since that 0.8% will be wasted. The game always rounds down those.

Yup I read up on that before what you're talking about with stopping at 20.1 instead of 20.8 in CP. I copied my cp from alcast site so I should be good. I only copied the mage tree really. Not the green and red tree due to me pvping mainly. So that shouldn't effect my dps I don't think.

DocFrost72 · April 2018

Gothlander wrote: »

Where does a stamplar get minor force from? I'm at work so I can't check my skills and stuff.

Rearming trap, fighters guild skill line.

Asardes · April 2018

Nope, green and red don't really affect your DPS. For example I throw 64 CP in Mooncalf and 64 in Tenacity on pretty much every character, with the rest spread between Shadow Ward, Tumbling, Warlord and what's left in less important stars like Bashing Focus and Sprinter (you can sprint fast in medium armor). The red are quite important for mitigation though, and those will differ markedly between PvE and PvP, but also won't affect your sustain on the dummy. The blue ones are pretty standard. You should have 218 available so they should be spread something like 49 Precise Strikes, 49 Thaumaturge, 49 Mighty, 37 Master at Arms, 34 Piercing or something along those lines.

Gothlander · April 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Gothlander wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

No. It means that you have big issues with your rotation, stats, CP and basically everything else. It should be around 27-30K even with that basic gear. Also it matters where you have the items. Spriggan is best used on the jewelry and 2 armor pieces in order to have it on both bars. Otherwise it will fall off on the back bar so the skills you apply there will hit for far less, or even continue to hit for far less in the case of Poison Injection since that copies the stats from the 1st tick. I suggest getting a parse addon and checking your parse of Minor Force up time (should be 100%), Power of the Light up time (should be > 85%) heavy and light attack damage (should be ~15% of your DPS).

I do have spriggan jewelry and two armor pieces. My bow and daggers are hunding. So when I switch to bow I lose out on the 5th bonus of hunding. I copied my cp set up from alcast site. I know to keep up dots on the target dummy. But 27k seems pretty hard to do.

It's all about upkeep of dots and rotation skills.
Have you also factored in your penetration or have friends assist you with buffs?
If you're comparing to any videos of others doing parses make sure you're keeping an eye on their pen vs your own.

Watching someone like Alcast then checking your DPS parse info (from combat metrics) vs your own should highlight where you can improve. Landing light attacks between each skill etc.

I do around 27k in dungeons. But on target dummy just 20

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Gothlander wrote: »

Where does a stamplar get minor force from? I'm at work so I can't check my skills and stuff.

Rearming trap, fighters guild skill line.

Ah yes. I have that on my bar. Yeah I probably need to perfect my rotation. I'm still not sure if I can reach 27k.. I forgot to add that I'm not using any potions. I need a recommended potion to use. One with major savagery and restore Stam I guess. I don't need crit since I get it from jabs.

Asardes · April 2018

Damage in dungeons is not relevant since in most cases you won't just hit one boss, but also adds. The single target is what matters, since bosses have dozens of times more HP than their adds. Combat Metrics can actually break that for you and show how much you've done on each boss, both in absolute numbers.

Danksta · April 2018

Gothlander wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

No. It means that you have big issues with your rotation, stats, CP and basically everything else. It should be around 27-30K even with that basic gear. Also it matters where you have the items. Spriggan is best used on the jewelry and 2 armor pieces in order to have it on both bars. Otherwise it will fall off on the back bar so the skills you apply there will hit for far less, or even continue to hit for far less in the case of Poison Injection since that copies the stats from the 1st tick. I suggest getting a parse addon and checking your parse of Minor Force up time (should be 100%), Power of the Light up time (should be > 85%) heavy and light attack damage (should be ~15% of your DPS).

I do have spriggan jewelry and two armor pieces. My bow and daggers are hunding. So when I switch to bow I lose out on the 5th bonus of hunding. I copied my cp set up from alcast site. I know to keep up dots on the target dummy. But 27k seems pretty hard to do.

Stamplar rotation isn't all about keeping up your back bar DoTs like some other stam classes. That's not to say that you shouldn't try to keep them up, but your rotation revolves around PotL. Since PotL has a 6 second duration and you cast it twice per rotation (making it a 12 second rotation) you Endless Hail is going to fall off for about 2 seconds each rotation.

Front bar: Jabs, Rending Slashes, Deadly Cloak, PotL, Rearming Trap Ult: Flawless Dawnbreaker
Back bar: Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Caltrops, Vigor (flex), Repentance (flex) Ult: Ballista

My rotation on a dummy or boss that spawns after you enter the room:

Pre fight pop your pot and blade cloak away from the dummy, run in with trap beast> swap> endless> Caltrops> PI> swap> PotL> rending> trap> HA> jabs> HA> PotL> HA> Deadly cloak>swap >start over from endless

Light attacks before ever skill except where you do a heavy attack (HA). Do a light attack instead of heavy before Deadly cloak if you're using an ult in that rotation. Ballista is the ult you will use, FDB is just there for the passive weapon damage.

In boss fights that the boss is there when you enter the room/area just start with PotL instead of trap, other than that it's the same. If you find your self with plenty of resources you can swap HA> jabs> HA> PotL for LA> jabs> LA> jabs> LA PotL.

Sparr0w · April 2018

Just a matter of tracking buffs/AoE's, LA/HA weaving & getting used to your rotation. Can't expect to copy someones build and get the same results they do

Can either do this at a slow pace by playing normally, or hit the dummy everyday. Either way 25-30k should be easily achievable after a bit of practice

EDIT: Essence of Weapon Power for your potions for the Major buffs & Stam it restores. Tbh I just use trash potions most of the time.

Asardes · April 2018

You can't use trash potions on Templar since you don't have any skill that gives you Major Brutality unless you go 2H, which would be pretty clunky in a rotation that's mostly DoTs since HA take pretty long to weave. 2H is good for overland content and vMA though, since you get great mitigation from Brawler, and Rally is also a strong burst heal if you use it wisely.

Sparr0w · April 2018

@Asardes My bad never used a Templar other than as a Healer, couldn't you use the Hidden Blade skill from the DW skill line, granted it's not the best but as a trade off for trash fights when top tier DPS isn't needed?

Danksta · April 2018

Asardes wrote: »

You can't use trash potions on Templar since you don't have any skill that gives you Major Brutality unless you go 2H, which would be pretty clunky in a rotation that's mostly DoTs since HA take pretty long to weave. 2H is good for overland content and vMA though, since you get great mitigation from Brawler, and Rally is also a strong burst heal if you use it wisely.

You can still hit over 30k using trash pots and no other source of Major Brutality, in a raid setup.

Asardes · April 2018

Hidden Blade is actually bad for trash, since it doesn't have an AoE - you want to morph it to Shrouded Daggers, for that, but it doesn't make any sense on Templar, which has already an excellent class spammable: Biting Jabs, that also provides Major Savagery on top of damage. The rotation would be stretched out if you also used Shrouded Daggers and you wouldn't be able to get a good up time on PotL. That's why Templars, DKs and Nightblades don't ever use that skill. It's only used extensively on Stamina Sorcerer, a class that has no spammable or singe target DoT skills, and in AoE situations also on Warden. So if you go 2W you're pretty much forced to use potions to make it work. Someone actually made a build using Dreugh King Slayer 2 armor 3 jewels but the DPS is arguably terrible.

Gothlander · April 2018

Danksta wrote: »

Gothlander wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

No. It means that you have big issues with your rotation, stats, CP and basically everything else. It should be around 27-30K even with that basic gear. Also it matters where you have the items. Spriggan is best used on the jewelry and 2 armor pieces in order to have it on both bars. Otherwise it will fall off on the back bar so the skills you apply there will hit for far less, or even continue to hit for far less in the case of Poison Injection since that copies the stats from the 1st tick. I suggest getting a parse addon and checking your parse of Minor Force up time (should be 100%), Power of the Light up time (should be > 85%) heavy and light attack damage (should be ~15% of your DPS).

I do have spriggan jewelry and two armor pieces. My bow and daggers are hunding. So when I switch to bow I lose out on the 5th bonus of hunding. I copied my cp set up from alcast site. I know to keep up dots on the target dummy. But 27k seems pretty hard to do.

Stamplar rotation isn't all about keeping up your back bar DoTs like some other stam classes. That's not to say that you shouldn't try to keep them up, but your rotation revolves around PotL. Since PotL has a 6 second duration and you cast it twice per rotation (making it a 12 second rotation) you Endless Hail is going to fall off for about 2 seconds each rotation.

Front bar: Jabs, Rending Slashes, Deadly Cloak, PotL, Rearming Trap Ult: Flawless Dawnbreaker
Back bar: Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Caltrops, Vigor (flex), Repentance (flex) Ult: Ballista

My rotation on a dummy or boss that spawns after you enter the room:

Pre fight pop your pot and blade cloak away from the dummy, run in with trap beast> swap> endless> Caltrops> PI> swap> PotL> rending> trap> HA> jabs> HA> PotL> HA> Deadly cloak>swap >start over from endless

Light attacks before ever skill except where you do a heavy attack (HA). Do a light attack instead of heavy before Deadly cloak if you're using an ult in that rotation. Ballista is the ult you will use, FDB is just there for the passive weapon damage.

In boss fights that the boss is there when you enter the room/area just start with PotL instead of trap, other than that it's the same. If you find your self with plenty of resources you can swap HA> jabs> HA> PotL for LA> jabs> LA> jabs> LA PotL.

Make sure to keep potl up as much as possible. Got it.

Danksta · April 2018

.

Gothlander wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Gothlander wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

No. It means that you have big issues with your rotation, stats, CP and basically everything else. It should be around 27-30K even with that basic gear. Also it matters where you have the items. Spriggan is best used on the jewelry and 2 armor pieces in order to have it on both bars. Otherwise it will fall off on the back bar so the skills you apply there will hit for far less, or even continue to hit for far less in the case of Poison Injection since that copies the stats from the 1st tick. I suggest getting a parse addon and checking your parse of Minor Force up time (should be 100%), Power of the Light up time (should be > 85%) heavy and light attack damage (should be ~15% of your DPS).

I do have spriggan jewelry and two armor pieces. My bow and daggers are hunding. So when I switch to bow I lose out on the 5th bonus of hunding. I copied my cp set up from alcast site. I know to keep up dots on the target dummy. But 27k seems pretty hard to do.

Stamplar rotation isn't all about keeping up your back bar DoTs like some other stam classes. That's not to say that you shouldn't try to keep them up, but your rotation revolves around PotL. Since PotL has a 6 second duration and you cast it twice per rotation (making it a 12 second rotation) you Endless Hail is going to fall off for about 2 seconds each rotation.

Front bar: Jabs, Rending Slashes, Deadly Cloak, PotL, Rearming Trap Ult: Flawless Dawnbreaker
Back bar: Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Caltrops, Vigor (flex), Repentance (flex) Ult: Ballista

My rotation on a dummy or boss that spawns after you enter the room:

Pre fight pop your pot and blade cloak away from the dummy, run in with trap beast> swap> endless> Caltrops> PI> swap> PotL> rending> trap> HA> jabs> HA> PotL> HA> Deadly cloak>swap >start over from endless

Light attacks before ever skill except where you do a heavy attack (HA). Do a light attack instead of heavy before Deadly cloak if you're using an ult in that rotation. Ballista is the ult you will use, FDB is just there for the passive weapon damage.

In boss fights that the boss is there when you enter the room/area just start with PotL instead of trap, other than that it's the same. If you find your self with plenty of resources you can swap HA> jabs> HA> PotL for LA> jabs> LA> jabs> LA PotL.

Make sure to keep potl up as much as possible. Got it.

Yes, but at the same time you want to let it expire before reapplying. Realistically you should be shooting for 85-90% uptime.

DeadlyRecluse · April 2018

It's good enough to do almost anything in game.

It's not "good" in terms of comparison to endgame PvE players.

Gothlander · April 2018

I got up to 22k dps. What am I doing wrong?

QuebraRegra · April 2018

for a healer that's pretty good

Vaoh · April 2018

Post a video of yourself completing a DPS parse on a 3mil or 6mil target skeleton (prob best atm to use 3mil). Also scroll through gear and stats before the parse.

From there it will be much easier for us to help you