Crescent Sweep VS DBoS

Aedaryl · April 2018

Hello,

I was unlocking vigor on my stamplar is cyrodiil and I saw a stamplar with crescent sweep telling it's better than DBoS.

As DBoS is everywhere I looked the tooltips of my final build and here is the story :

Crescent Sweep

Swing your aedric spear around dealing 10020 physical damage and a additional 4724 damage every 2 seconds for 6s. Ennemies in front of you take 66% more initial damage.

So it cost 72 ultimate.
It's an AoE all around you. If I understand well the ultimate deal impact damage and immedialty the first dot tick.(It's right ?)
It deal 16k initial damage + 4.7k dot and then 4.7k every 2s for 6s. The dot is on you and is also an AoE around you.
It can proc the burning light passive each time it deal damage dealing 5200 damage (0.5s cooldown).

So the impact is between 20.7k and 26k damage.
The dot 2s after is about 4.7k and 9.9k each time it tick.

Dawnbreaker of Smiting

A cone stuning for 2.5s and dealing 14702 damage on impact + 16484 damage in 5s

Cost is 120.
It's a cone AoE and the first dot tick immedialty dealing 3.3k damage then the second dot can touch the ennemy if it's a noob.
It stun.
So we have 14.7k damage + 3.3k damage on impact => 19k damage. If it's a vamp/wolf then it's 22.8k

The question is : what's the best ultimate for a build having a reliable cc (reverb).

DAMAGE side :

Impact :

Agaisnt non vamp crescent sweep is better. And agaisnt a vamp it can be better if buring light proc.

DoT :

I also think crescent is better here because the dot is on you so you can tick it on your ennemy all the time VS A ground dot that tick once or twice.

What do you think about it ?

Is crescent more damage in combat ?
Is crescent better even if it doesn't stun (you stun before with reberbating bash) ?

What's the best ?

MalakithAlamahdi · April 2018

Dawnbreaker is better in pretty much every situation imo. Only time I like cresent more is against cloakers because you can pull them out of cloak with the pulses. It's probably also better against magplars that use a lot of cleanse, though most magplars are vamp. The 66% damage increase is a bit clunky and seems to miss quite often compared to dawnbreaker. Just my two cents.

Also, dawnbreaker is good against groups, since you'll stun all of them and give them all a nasty DoT!

technohic · April 2018

The actual big difference is DBOS has 10 meter cone to where if you point it, you will hit your target easier. Crescent being only 6m radius can be hard to land on a moving target, unless you CCed. The 20% bonus damage on vamps and werewolves also are to be considered given most players in PvP seem to be vamp.

Id almost just use Crescent if I wanted a cheaper "i need it now" ultimate to where I couldnt wait for DBOS, although its not that much more expensive.

Metemsycosis · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Hello,

I was unlocking vigor on my stamplar is cyrodiil and I saw a stamplar with crescent sweep telling it's better than DBoS.

As DBoS is everywhere I looked the tooltips of my final build and here is the story :

Crescent Sweep

Swing your aedric spear around dealing 10020 physical damage and a additional 4724 damage every 2 seconds for 6s. Ennemies in front of you take 66% more initial damage.

So it cost 72 ultimate.
It's an AoE all around you. If I understand well the ultimate deal impact damage and immedialty the first dot tick.(It's right ?)
It deal 16k initial damage + 4.7k dot and then 4.7k every 2s for 6s. The dot is on you and is also an AoE around you.
It can proc the burning light passive each time it deal damage dealing 5200 damage (0.5s cooldown).

So the impact is between 20.7k and 26k damage.
The dot 2s after is about 4.7k and 9.9k each time it tick.

Dawnbreaker of Smiting

A cone stuning for 2.5s and dealing 14702 damage on impact + 16484 damage in 5s

Cost is 120.
It's a cone AoE and the first dot tick immedialty dealing 3.3k damage then the second dot can touch the ennemy if it's a noob.
It stun.
So we have 14.7k damage + 3.3k damage on impact => 19k damage. If it's a vamp/wolf then it's 23.75k

The question is : what's the best ultimate for a build having a reliable cc (reverb).

DAMAGE side :

Impact :

Agaisnt non vamp crescent sweep is better. And agaisnt a vamp it can be better if buring light proc.

DoT :

I also think crescent is better here because the dot is on you so you can tick it on your ennemy all the time VS A ground dot that tick once or twice.

What do you think about it ?

Is crescent more damage in combat ?
Is crescent better even if it doesn't stun (you stun before with reberbating bash) ?

What's the best ?

Dbos is better but I think a better player can make more use of crescent sweep because it comes up more frequently and still provides deadly burst. I want to add that the two skills are not mutually exclusive (you can have one on each bar); on an offensive-oriented Templar this means you use dbos sometimes and crescent sweep others.

Aedaryl · April 2018

Thx for you answers !

You all confirm the first dot of Crescent sweep come immediatly when the ultimate is fire and then it come every 2s ?

Or is the first dot of Crescent come 2s after impact ?

Well, I didn't though about using both for different situations. I want an openworld stamplar, I don't know if it worth it to give up remembrence.

MalakithAlamahdi · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Thx for you answers !

You all confirm the first dot of Crescent sweep come immediatly when the ultimate is fire and then it come every 2s ?

Or is the first dot of Crescent come 2s after impact ?

Well, I didn't though about using both for different situations. I want an openworld stamplar, I don't know if it worth it to give up remembrence.

Don't slot both at the same time, i'd be a waste. You can try both and see which one you like the most yourself, but I think your safest bet on which one would be best is Dawnbreaker. It's so good that even magicka builds use it at times.

Baz · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

I don't know if it worth it to give up remembrence.

Try it yourself

Crescent sweep hit like a truck, but it miss too much, due to the 5m radius, to be relevant over DBoS.

Aedaryl · April 2018

Baz wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

I don't know if it worth it to give up remembrence.

Try it yourself
Crescent sweep hit like a truck, but it miss too much, due to the 5m radius, to be relevant over DBoS.

I shouldn't have trouble to hit people with it, I'm using lingering + speed potion and the OP 60% snare from heroïc slash.

That 72 cost jsut trigger me so much, with minor heroism, light attack ulti gain, prism passive and bloodspawn, I can have it VERY fast !

IZZEFlameLash · April 2018

There's a reason why people do not use this ult even at 72 cost over Dawnbreaker... misses too much as it often misses the target right in front of you and the actual hits are not that strong. And it does not do aoe stun.

usmcjdking · April 2018

Crescent Sweeps issue, as many have stated, is range. Due to lag, this skill has a tendancy to miss dudes in point blank and despite the low ult cost, it's inferior to DB.

Biro123 · April 2018

Dawn breakers guaranteed hit and cc on a dodging opponent is its main strength imho.

WuffyCerulei · April 2018

I'd go Dawnbreaker. Crescent sweep's really only used in pve by war machine stamplars.

Brrrofski · April 2018

Dawnbreaker is better imo. The CC is useful, even if using one. When you have 3 people in your face CCing all of them can help. Also good for CCing someone roll dodging.

Skander · April 2018

What kills about DB is the combo with the stun. Cresent sweep doesn't have one
Also, the extra dmg vs vampires.

DDuke · April 2018

Skander wrote: »

What kills about DB is the combo with the stun. Cresent sweep doesn't have one
Also, the extra dmg vs vampires.

Well, in theory one could make it work with the Tactician stun, atleast in 1v1.

In 1vX DBOS is of course better since it stuns multiple people which not just helps you get kills, but also buys you time by stopping lots of incoming damage for a while by stunning those people spamming skills at you.

BohnT · April 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

What kills about DB is the combo with the stun. Cresent sweep doesn't have one
Also, the extra dmg vs vampires.

Well, in theory one could make it work with the Tactician stun, atleast in 1v1.

In 1vX DBOS is of course better since it stuns multiple people which not just helps you get kills, but also buys you time by stopping lots of incoming damage for a while by stunning those people spamming skills at you.

The combination is too unreliable especially in duels against good players.
you need to combine the ult with PotL and a rota where you hit your enemy with atleast 1 full jab channel. Then you need to hope that the enemy is set off balance which is highly reliant on luck with stamplar as you don't dodge often and have to rely on shuffle. Then you have to hope that your enemy doesn't block or dodge the heavy attack but as you need PotL most people already play defensively so it gets even harder and then you have the last thing to deal with. The crappy hit box of the extra damage and the skill itself.

I found that in most cases where i had Crescent sweep slotted i had ~120 ult when i could use it at it's full potential and then i could've just go with dawnbreaker from the start that wins everything except for cost.
Also Dbos works better with PotL as the Dots is higher and ticks more frequently so you can increase the damage of PotL easily.

Aedaryl · April 2018

Thx for your feedbacks !

I see a LOT of stamplar not running execute, is an additional jabs better than a swich bar + reverce slice ?

Checkmath · April 2018

That totally depends on the build. Snb 2h builds habe jabs and execute on the same bar. But jabs already hit very hard and mostly a good combo with might of the light brings enemies down to where you finish them also without an execute.

OdinForge · April 2018

DBoS is superior for all the reasons people mentioned here.

I wish they'd increase the range on crescent a little, because it can hit like an absolute truck. It also has very strong synergy with PoTL and burning light for those sweet instagibs.

Blurry picture, but you can straight up catch people off guard with it. If it was more reliable to land I'd settle for using it more at times over DBoS.

BohnT · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Thx for your feedbacks !

I see a LOT of stamplar not running execute, is an additional jabs better than a swich bar + reverce slice ?

I'd always run an execute because jabs is a channel. The last thing you want is an enemy that is at 3k health but you can't kill him fast enough because you can't deal damage instantly. Bleed builds work good without execute because they have enough pressure. Also it's better to run jabs on the 2h bar imo because you need every damage increase you can get atm with the jab damage bug.

Also where do you see lots of stamplars? On Pc EU i know ~5 people who actually play stamplar and everyone of those uses an execute on most builds

TheBonesXXX · April 2018

Any ability that has a reliability of not landing on its target consistently is not worth using; same with an overly telegraphed ability.

Aedaryl · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Thx for your feedbacks !

I see a LOT of stamplar not running execute, is an additional jabs better than a swich bar + reverce slice ?

I'd always run an execute because jabs is a channel. The last thing you want is an enemy that is at 3k health but you can't kill him fast enough because you can't deal damage instantly. Bleed builds work good without execute because they have enough pressure. Also it's better to run jabs on the 2h bar imo because you need every damage increase you can get atm with the jab damage bug.

Also where do you see lots of stamplars? On Pc EU i know ~5 people who actually play stamplar and everyone of those uses an execute on most builds

I checked a lot of yt videos to see what people does, and most of them use bleed build without execute...

I want to make that build : http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=32039 any feedback on it ?

That jabs bug, what is it exactly ?

BohnT · April 2018

Don't let vids/ builds from other platforms than PC EU deceive you. We are stuck with the most tryhards and even our worst zerglings are tryharding or utilise atleast somewhat decent builds. You won't see those people running hybrid dks spamming whips and bloodthirst on the same build etc.

You won't be able to kill people fast enough in OW neither will you be able to sustain with that build you will be tanky however.
Also jabs are better on your 2h bar as they do much more damage then, don't use remembrance use shield ulti instead.
Remembrance won't save you when you get zerged, in duels your opponent can just heavy attack his resources back while you heal and as you are locked the zergs will catch you. If you want a heal ulti you could go vampire and use swarm it's kinda fun as you can keep pressuring your enemy while you heal yourself.
Also your max stam is too low I'd try to reach ~34k min

The next thing is ravager is a decent set but you have to be offensive for it to proc which can be really hard as you can't dodge/ block while channeling jabs to proc it.
Also i guess you'll have to switch to the serpent as muc has I'd like to run warrior on stamplar you need all sustain you can get.

I run a different build that works pretty good but is lackiert a better offensive set:
2pc slimecraw
5pc bone pirate
5pc clever Alchemist (1h+s only)
1pc Asylum 2h hammer ( more reliable than the bleed and almost always outdamages sword)

2 wpn damage glyphs + 1 stam regen
Boon: serpent
Bar setup: 1h+s: focus, reverb, vigor, ransack(for more damage with penetration, can be swapped with heroic), purge ult: 1h&s
2h: PotL, executioner, rally, jabs, shuffle ult: DBoS

The bar setup isn't full tryhard mode, you'd want to swap vigor and PotL with each other for more healing and a higher damage cap on PotL but i like having a heal on each bar so i'm not *** when barswap isn't working

Jabs has several bugs:
1. the damage gets reduced more than it should by CP @cinbri made a good post about it. Really annoying and it hurts stamplar a lot. More often than not you'll hit medium armor builds with 900 crit jabs even when fully buffed while i hit for ~1.6-2k jabs on non cp
2. the hit detection is screwed as soon as lag enters the equation. At primetime you'll be happy to hit 1/4 jabs on stationary targets it's that bad
3. when you move froward while using jabs you can get locked into sprinting which only ends after you die or you drain your complete stamina, you can't dodge, block, regain stamina, use skills or potions while locked in this bug

Aedaryl · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Don't let vids/ builds from other platforms than PC EU deceive you. We are stuck with the most tryhards and even our worst zerglings are tryharding or utilise atleast somewhat decent builds. You won't see those people running hybrid dks spamming whips and bloodthirst on the same build etc.

You won't be able to kill people fast enough in OW neither will you be able to sustain with that build you will be tanky however.
Also jabs are better on your 2h bar as they do much more damage then, don't use remembrance use shield ulti instead.
Remembrance won't save you when you get zerged, in duels your opponent can just heavy attack his resources back while you heal and as you are locked the zergs will catch you. If you want a heal ulti you could go vampire and use swarm it's kinda fun as you can keep pressuring your enemy while you heal yourself.
Also your max stam is too low I'd try to reach ~34k min

The next thing is ravager is a decent set but you have to be offensive for it to proc which can be really hard as you can't dodge/ block while channeling jabs to proc it.
Also i guess you'll have to switch to the serpent as muc has I'd like to run warrior on stamplar you need all sustain you can get.

I run a different build that works pretty good but is lackiert a better offensive set:
2pc slimecraw
5pc bone pirate
5pc clever Alchemist (1h+s only)
1pc Asylum 2h hammer ( more reliable than the bleed and almost always outdamages sword)

2 wpn damage glyphs + 1 stam regen
Boon: serpent
Bar setup: 1h+s: focus, reverb, vigor, ransack(for more damage with penetration, can be swapped with heroic), purge ult: 1h&s
2h: PotL, executioner, rally, jabs, shuffle ult: DBoS

The bar setup isn't full tryhard mode, you'd want to swap vigor and PotL with each other for more healing and a higher damage cap on PotL but i like having a heal on each bar so i'm not *** when barswap isn't working

Jabs has several bugs:
1. the damage gets reduced more than it should by CP @cinbri made a good post about it. Really annoying and it hurts stamplar a lot. More often than not you'll hit medium armor builds with 900 crit jabs even when fully buffed while i hit for ~1.6-2k jabs on non cp
2. the hit detection is screwed as soon as lag enters the equation. At primetime you'll be happy to hit 1/4 jabs on stationary targets it's that bad
3. when you move froward while using jabs you can get locked into sprinting which only ends after you die or you drain your complete stamina, you can't dodge, block, regain stamina, use skills or potions while locked in this bug

Thx a lot !

Your bar choices are better, having executioner + jabs on the same bar is better, and the damage much stronger ! I'm a bit afraid to not have vigor on the "main" hand, but it seems better to swich bar and blockcast it when needed. Shuffle is on the jabs bar for being able to purge snare without loosing time for swiching weapon right ?

How much regen I need ?

Is medium without a tank set not too much squichy ?

The last one : with 2h weapons becoming 2 pieces of a set in summer set, is ravager not being better than Clever alchimist ?

BohnT · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Don't let vids/ builds from other platforms than PC EU deceive you. We are stuck with the most tryhards and even our worst zerglings are tryharding or utilise atleast somewhat decent builds. You won't see those people running hybrid dks spamming whips and bloodthirst on the same build etc.

You won't be able to kill people fast enough in OW neither will you be able to sustain with that build you will be tanky however.
Also jabs are better on your 2h bar as they do much more damage then, don't use remembrance use shield ulti instead.
Remembrance won't save you when you get zerged, in duels your opponent can just heavy attack his resources back while you heal and as you are locked the zergs will catch you. If you want a heal ulti you could go vampire and use swarm it's kinda fun as you can keep pressuring your enemy while you heal yourself.
Also your max stam is too low I'd try to reach ~34k min

The next thing is ravager is a decent set but you have to be offensive for it to proc which can be really hard as you can't dodge/ block while channeling jabs to proc it.
Also i guess you'll have to switch to the serpent as muc has I'd like to run warrior on stamplar you need all sustain you can get.

I run a different build that works pretty good but is lackiert a better offensive set:
2pc slimecraw
5pc bone pirate
5pc clever Alchemist (1h+s only)
1pc Asylum 2h hammer ( more reliable than the bleed and almost always outdamages sword)

2 wpn damage glyphs + 1 stam regen
Boon: serpent
Bar setup: 1h+s: focus, reverb, vigor, ransack(for more damage with penetration, can be swapped with heroic), purge ult: 1h&s
2h: PotL, executioner, rally, jabs, shuffle ult: DBoS

The bar setup isn't full tryhard mode, you'd want to swap vigor and PotL with each other for more healing and a higher damage cap on PotL but i like having a heal on each bar so i'm not *** when barswap isn't working

Jabs has several bugs:
1. the damage gets reduced more than it should by CP @cinbri made a good post about it. Really annoying and it hurts stamplar a lot. More often than not you'll hit medium armor builds with 900 crit jabs even when fully buffed while i hit for ~1.6-2k jabs on non cp
2. the hit detection is screwed as soon as lag enters the equation. At primetime you'll be happy to hit 1/4 jabs on stationary targets it's that bad
3. when you move froward while using jabs you can get locked into sprinting which only ends after you die or you drain your complete stamina, you can't dodge, block, regain stamina, use skills or potions while locked in this bug

Thx a lot !

Your bar choices are better, having executioner + jabs on the same bar is better, and the damage much stronger ! I'm a bit afraid to not have vigor on the "main" hand, but it seems better to swich bar and blockcast it when needed. Shuffle is on the jabs bar for being able to purge snare without loosing time for swiching weapon right ?

How much regen I need ?

Is medium without a tank set not too much squichy ?

The last one : with 2h weapons becoming 2 pieces of a set in summer set, is ravager not being better than Clever alchimist ?

I put shuffle there because i put in there on all of my stamchars

i don't know why i just like having my shuffle as a 5th skill on my backbar. I guess on stamplar it is actually good to be there as you need the mobility to hit your jabs and i like purge on my 1h+s bar more because it's where i play more defensively and i don't want to be on my offensive bar when i have to remove debuffs when being defensive.

I run around with 2.4k regen and still run out a lot when the fights are longer than 1 min or i have to defend myself more than usual.

When you start playing stamplar i advise using 1pc chudan and pirate skeleton on your monster set slots, i don't advise Bloodspawn as nightblades will be your nightmare as they can kill you before Bs procs so you gain nothing from it's resistances.
I also run reinforced on my heavy legs and chest as they often quite a lot resistances, on my 1h+s bar I'm at 27k resistances when buffed which is enough most of the time.
If you want more resistances and played the build for a while you can use bloodspawn it's really strong but i like my slimecraw more i don't know why.

I really have to see what will change with Summerset with new sets, more skill changes etc so i can't really say anything but i really don't like ravager because it doesn't proc when i want it which is always frustrating.
When i line up my burst and everything i don't want to rely on the 8% proc chance to secure the kill but i guess that's personal preference.

Metemsycosis · April 2018

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Thx for you answers !

You all confirm the first dot of Crescent sweep come immediatly when the ultimate is fire and then it come every 2s ?

Or is the first dot of Crescent come 2s after impact ?

Well, I didn't though about using both for different situations. I want an openworld stamplar, I don't know if it worth it to give up remembrence.

Don't slot both at the same time, i'd be a waste. You can try both and see which one you like the most yourself, but I think your safest bet on which one would be best is Dawnbreaker. It's so good that even magicka builds use it at times.

I disagree with you but only outside the context of solo open world cyrodiil where u really need more stuff as opposed to varieties of the same stuff. But when your opponent has cheap ults it's nice to have em too. Yes crescent hits hard. I'd rather have crescent in a 1v1 in which a javelin + crit rush + crescent might be enough to secure a kill and can happen quite more frequently. As I said slotting both is for the offensive-oriented templar and gives you the ability to save up for a group ult dump (dbos) or a single target bomb (crescent sweep). Btw I don't run both but I play mine very defensively.

IV_Deity · April 2018

I've tried both of these ults and dawnbreaker seems to be the better choice. Crescent does provide very good damage, but its range is awful. It needs to be extended for me to consider using.

IV_Deity · April 2018

IV_Deity wrote: »

I've tried both of these ults and dawnbreaker seems to be the better choice. Crescent does provide very good damage, but its range is awful. It needs to be extended for me to consider using.

EDIT: The extra 66% would be nice if it applied to all targets

DeadlyRecluse · April 2018

If you already have an aedric spear ability on that bar, the passive benefits of dawnbreaker shouldn't be overlooked, either.

Also, even with a reliable CC in reverb bash, Dawnbreaker's AOE CC is super nice.

WhoThenNow7 · April 2018

I've been using crescent sweep because I don't have dawnbreaker unlocked yet. I can't stand it because it misses so much. It also doesn't feel as powerful as dawnbreaker despite having 4k weapon damage.

DeadlyRecluse · April 2018

....I would also like to mention that Dawnbreaker's animation is awesome, while crescent sweep looks like a kid swinging a towel around his head.