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Over 4 years in Elder Scrolls Online. Feedback for the devs.

JD2013
JD2013
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Okay, so - I felt inspired to write a post filled with feedback from over 4 years in Elder Scrolls Online.

Please note; this will be a long one, so bear with me! There's a lot to cover. From PVE to PVP to trials and dungeons, content cadence and monetization. Everything is going to be fed back on in the hope that it will be read.

Okay, so let's begin at the beginning. The first thing I would like to address is:

Storytelling and Quests

It's no secret that Storytelling is one of Elder Scrolls Online's strengths. There are a lot of very well written stories and quests in Elder Scrolls Online. I'm not going to rattle on about individual stories and arcs, but one thing I would like to address is the overall narrative of the game.

From a new player's perspective, the narrative is now very, very messy. I began right at the beginning, so I know the right story order for things. Planemeld, Craglorn, Orsinium, Morrowind, the little between prologue quests, things follow a narrative.

But with the introduction of One Tamriel, this kind of got blown up and you can now do everything however you want. Go anywhere and do anything is great, but you could do the whole Daedric War thing before the Planemeld. You can do zone quests completely out of order and to me (I have tested this on new characters) it all seems weird and out of synch with each story. Does the Daedric War come before the Planemeld? At the end of the main story quest (Vanilla) Molag Bal says there are other Princes watching. Then you get a warning in Orsinium. Then other events kick off. It all seems very jumbled and muddled up if you did this first and then the main story quest. Is everything happening all at once? Is one after the other?

The best fix for this might be to stop having an overall narrative, and have self contained stories in new zones without a link to one another. Alternatively, have events that trigger certain story points. Maybe it is just me, and does not need fixing? I'm not too sure about this one.

In game drops

For this, I am not talking about RNG. I am talking about the things that drop from quests, dungeons, trials etc.

A lot of other MMO's that I have played have fantastic drops from content. Mounts, pets, special items, especially from harder raids or dungeons.

Here, we usually get a piece of gear to deconstruct, a skin, a motif page etc. In short, there is no great reward in ESO for doing things. It is all the usual gear time after time, 99 percent of the time which gets deconned and no second thoughts to it. Maybe think about adding some actual reward drops like special mounts and pets etc. This is the only MMO (That I have played) that does not have some awesome rewards for clearing content, especially the harder content. I find it very unfulfilling that all of the mounts and stuff are put on the Crown Store. (More on that later!)

And whilst we are on that subject ...

Token system

Again, this is the only MMO that I personally have played that does not have a token system for rewards for dungeons and trials. Maybe let the people decide what they get, but don't make it too cheap either. Have a gear vendor in Undaunted enclaves and let the players decide what they get with their tokens instead of having to pray to RNGesus every single time to get something good.

Progression and Champion Points

Progression in Elder Scrolls Online is basically non existent. We have a Champion Points system that feels like the most artificial progression I have ever seen.

Back when they did away with Veteran Ranks, I was worried that there would be no real sense of progression anymore, and that as each DLC came out, you would be able to faceroll through it without blinking an eye.

Turns out, I was sadly right.

I can run through any PVE Zone in game and just melt the enemies in seconds. None of them prove to be a challenge at all. It has been that way since Vet ranks disappeared and it will likely always be the way. The last challenging fight I remember having was back when the game came out.

Where is any sense of progression to keep the long term players playing?

I know that a lot of what ZOS as a company does with ESO is to focus on new players, but what of those of us who have stuck with the game for a long time?

Every MMO is a power creep. I also play FF XIV and I have to say, levelling and clearing content on there is a lot more satisfying, because I know I worked up to that. I can't just go and faceroll every piece of content in the game. You have to work at it. Work at your build Work on levelling and earning that piece of gear that you really want.

In ESO, The moment you hit a certain amount of CP's, you might as well just stop levelling. Because nothing presents as a challenge anymore. The biggest challenge in game is finding a group to run trials with. I like a sense of progression. Not everyone might feel this way, of course.

Content and Content Cadence

I like that we have regular content updates in Elder Scrolls Online. Without fail, we have new content every quarter.

But, the content in itself, whilst amazing for the most part, is, without fail, short.

Let's take Morrowind as an example.

I absolutely realise that the dev schedule must be punishing to turn out 4 DLC's a year. But as a result of this, I feel content suffers.

Morrowind was amazing for the most part. There were some amazing stories, a beautiful land. But when you looked closer, you realised how short it was.

There were so many locked doors and ruins in a game series that promotes exploration and finding things.

For such a big piece of land, there were only 6 delves and 2 Public Dungeons. This is substantially less than one of the base zones - Craglorn, which just makes your beautiful land feel big and empty.

A chunk of the map was inaccessible - No, not Red Mountain. I mean Sheogorad. (Yes, that again.) The main island is quite a substantial piece of land, and it was not included, and yet it was put on the map.

I think that with the 4 DLC's a year, the content genuinely suffers. They don't appear have the time to make content that keeps players coming back. Again, I am not sure what a fix for this would be. One very large expansion a year with small patches throughout the year adding a few quests and the odd dungeon?

I also very much like ESO Dungeons. They are always well designed and fun to do. But, at least to me, 2 dungeons is not a DLC pack. It keeps you busy for a couple of hours, and then you have to wait 3 month for the next piece of content. For new people, this is great as they have everything else to do. But again, for us long-timers, what is there to keep us playing until the next piece of content comes?

For another example, take Murkmire (which has recently been datamined) - This piece of content was announced in 2014. The map looked quite big, and was supposed to be like Craglorn. I assume this meant lots of dungeons and world bosses and the such.

This zone, after reworking, will now likely fit the usual DLC zone of 2 delves, 2 world bosses and a very short main quest, with dailies put in to keep people doing that. I wish we could have seen the old Murkmire. But with the content cadence now, that would be considered a chapter. Just because it will last you longer than about 5 hours.

Another thing to note is nothing changes. This is what it always is. There is no shake-up content. Nothing to change the status quo. It is always a small zone, few quests, few dailies, 2 world bosses, 2 delves. Nothing to shake the game up a bit. No massive event. Nothing brand new. Just always this.

Shaking the game up is always a good thing. Especially after it has been out for so long. Adding stuff to keep longer term players will not kill the game.

PVP

I am no expert PVP'er. I tend to binge for a few days and then do none for a while.

But, PVP HAS NOT CHANGED since the game first came out. Cyrodiil is the same day in and day out with no changes. No new objectives. Run in a zerg, siege a keep, hold a keep, take it's resources. Run in a zerg, siege a keep, hold a keep, take it's resources. Run in a zerg, siege a keep, hold a keep, take it's resources. Run in a zerg, siege a keep, hold a keep, take it's resources. That's all it is and that is all it has ever been.

PVP needs a massive change.

New objectives. New areas. New machines to siege with. New ways to siege. New things to hold. Some Cyrodiil world events.

I know you guys are always looking for fixes for the servers, too. But there needs to be even more communication about this. Cyrodiil can be a hot mess at the best of times. It can turn into a slideshow with frame-rate drops. Let us know what is being worked on.

I realise that Cyrodiil might not be a money maker as it is part of the base game, but PVP needs love too.

Also, I think there should be a PVE Cyrodiil. I am not afraid of going in Cyrodiil and getting down and dirty. But, sometimes you want to run delves and the such without being annoyed by people PVP'ing around you. I am not even sure how this would work.

BUT IF YOU EVER DID THIS, MAKE SURE IT DOES NOT DETRACT FROM PVP. The PVP players have so little as it is.

Another thing I have noticed is there is no real communication on PVP anymore. There needs to be a discussion at least quarterly to go with updates to let us know what is going on with PVP. We have been months now, and I have heard zero on it. Is anything even being worked on for it? Let us know. Keep us engaged.

Monetisation and the Crown Store

Okay, this is a big topic around here. The Crown Store is a persistently looming piece of topic around everywhere in Elder Scrolls Online.

I am very impressed that you have the "Do no harm" ethic regarding the Crown Store. I am glad there has been no P2W put in like special armour and weapons.

But basically everything else is put in the Crown Store.

Cool Mounts
All new houses
All new pets

How about dropping a couple of those cool items as quest rewards, as dungeon rewards, as trial rewards?

Reward your players for doing the content instead of just sticking it in the Crown Store and asking for more cash. People sub. People buy the chapters. People buy crowns.

I am, however, not going to touch on Crown Crates. That has been discussed to death around here. Pro's, cons, hatred, love, everything.

But one thing I will say is that not everything you make has to go into the Crown Store. Elder Scrolls Online does not have to be a big cash Piñata. It is okay to occasionally give things as rewards in the game. Most other MMO's do.

Holiday events

I was very happy when they decided to add Holiday Events into the game. They make the world feel a bit more alive and living.

But I am disappointed that you decide to just put in the same event a couple of years running with no new quests, very few new rewards etc.

It is fine to add new things for older players who have done the old event.

Most other MMO's add new things to events, new quests, and players who did not do it last year missed out on last year's things. It is OK to do this. Players miss out. It is a part of gaming.

I hope that you add a new event and quests going forward, because doing the same thing year in and year out with no change is going to get stale. You can only do the same quest so many times. I would like to see Holiday events move on and move forward.

It is also fine to add holiday decorations all over cities rather than just one part. Makes it feel more festive.

This is all just my feedback. Some might agree, some might disagree. But this is all my two cents.
Sweetrolls for all!

Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC

PC Beta Tester January 2014

Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners

@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/

Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!
  • Voxicity
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    I agree with absolutely everything you said
  • TelvanniWizard
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    Good post indeed. I hope someone at Zos reads it.
  • themaddaedra
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    Here's your well-earned insightful. I would try and add some but i fear i'd just repeat sth you already said.
    PC|EU
  • LonePirate
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    As another player with over four years of ESO time under my belt (going back to my first PC beta in November 2013), let me offer my thanks and congratulations for your post and your longevity. Hopefully you can convey your thoughts in a stream as that is pretty much the only way your post will penetrate ZOS HQ.
    Edited by LonePirate on March 30, 2018 2:44PM
  • Sergykid
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    an exquisite quality DLC every 1-2 years would be way much better at least for me.

    but i'm more into PVP, and i don't like the lack of ranked battles and organized fighting being nothing other than buying chapter's BGs
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • xeNNNNN
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    Honestly, I think in terms of story telling a lack of a yellow brick road for new players is a good thing. Exploring in MMOs is way more fun than just going from A - B all the time.
    Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.
  • Vhozek
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    ZoS: Thanks for wasting your time. We will now continue with the usual routine.
    They focus on new players because they're selling a lie. They get their base game and DLC money and call it success.
    Edited by Vhozek on March 30, 2018 3:44PM
    𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.
  • Chaos2088
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    Agree with everything mentioned!!!
    @Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP
  • SirAndy
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    JD2013 wrote: »
    Feedback for the devs
    The devs don't read the forums ...
    shades.gif

  • Rickter
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    I played FFXIV too and “earning”? Really? You just join a FATE grind raid and zerg your way to max level. Questline GIVES you your class’s BiS weapon. Get outta here with earning in FFXIV...

    Then you say ALL pets are in crown store - so that little droid pet you get by collecting its pieces in Morrowind was crown store exclusive? Again: get outta here.

    I agree with most of what you said, but there are also GROSS EXAGGERATIONS of which i only touched up on two.
    RickterESO
    PC | NA | DC
    YouTube
    ______________________
    Guilds:
    Requiem GM | Dark Sisterhood Blood Knight | Legend Mod | Legend GvG Mod
    PvP:
    Bloodletter | StamDK | Alliance Rank 46 | Former Emperor of Shor (2018) | Former Emperor of Thornblade #4terms (2015)
    PvE:
    vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMA | vDSA | vMoL | ALL Vet 4 Man Dungeons


  • MadLarkin
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    Rickter wrote: »
    I played FFXIV too and “earning”? Really? You just join a FATE grind raid and zerg your way to max level. Questline GIVES you your class’s BiS weapon. Get outta here with earning in FFXIV...

    Then you say ALL pets are in crown store - so that little droid pet you get by collecting its pieces in Morrowind was crown store exclusive? Again: get outta here.

    I agree with most of what you said, but there are also GROSS EXAGGERATIONS of which i only touched up on two.

    Maybe not all pets, but the vast majority of them and mounts require some kind of financial investment beyond the purchase of the game. It should at least be even, 50% able to be earned through gameplay, and 50% in the store. That seems reasonable to me.
  • srfrogg23
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    Well, opinions being what they are, here’s mine:

    I started playing in beta, too, and I quit because I hit VR 16 and was stuck with only a handful of zones to play in and got bored. I like what 1T and CPs did for the game. I can go back to any zone and do any part of the storyline I feel like doing without having to follow a step-by-step progression from one zone to another.

    Incidentally, if I wanted that experience again, I would play just about any other MMO available on the market. But, I don’t want that. That’s why I play ESO.

    We clearly have a difference of opinion.
  • jedtb16_ESO
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    tldr

    could you summarise please?
  • Sky_WK
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    Ah yes, the daily I have played for a long time and therefore know whats best for the game thread. This is it guys, this is the one that will change everything.
    i do not read replies. still playing stamdk for some reason.
  • cmetzger93
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    Wow agree 100%. I hope this gets dev attention. While they are pandering to the people who are special enough to get invited to HQ they should really just be reading to forums to find out what the players want. Who knew???
  • Maximilian
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    It's your opinion...I don't agree. Oh yeah, I have been here since beta as well.
    Edited by Maximilian on March 30, 2018 10:03PM
  • JD2013
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    srfrogg23 wrote: »
    Well, opinions being what they are, here’s mine:

    I started playing in beta, too, and I quit because I hit VR 16 and was stuck with only a handful of zones to play in and got bored. I like what 1T and CPs did for the game. I can go back to any zone and do any part of the storyline I feel like doing without having to follow a step-by-step progression from one zone to another.

    Incidentally, if I wanted that experience again, I would play just about any other MMO available on the market. But, I don’t want that. That’s why I play ESO.

    We clearly have a difference of opinion.

    We do, and that is okay to have a difference of opinion.
    Sky_WK wrote: »
    Ah yes, the daily I have played for a long time and therefore know whats best for the game thread. This is it guys, this is the one that will change everything.

    Constructive. Thanks :smile:

    As stated this is my opinion. We all have them. They are going to differ. Embrace differing opinions! ;)

    Life is so much more interesting when things are opened for debate and exchange of opinions and ideas!
    Edited by JD2013 on March 30, 2018 10:41PM
    Sweetrolls for all!

    Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC

    PC Beta Tester January 2014

    Elder of The Black
    Order of Sithis
    The Runners

    @TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
    https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/

    Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!
  • Remag_Div
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    Good post.

    I agree with everything.
  • Reverb
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    Well said
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
  • psychotrip
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    Storytelling and Quests

    It's no secret that Storytelling is one of Elder Scrolls Online's strengths. There are a lot of very well written stories and quests in Elder Scrolls Online. I'm not going to rattle on about individual stories and arcs, but one thing I would like to address is the overall narrative of the game.

    From a new player's perspective, the narrative is now very, very messy. I began right at the beginning, so I know the right story order for things. Planemeld, Craglorn, Orsinium, Morrowind, the little between prologue quests, things follow a narrative.

    But with the introduction of One Tamriel, this kind of got blown up and you can now do everything however you want. Go anywhere and do anything is great, but you could do the whole Daedric War thing before the Planemeld. You can do zone quests completely out of order and to me (I have tested this on new characters) it all seems weird and out of synch with each story. Does the Daedric War come before the Planemeld? At the end of the main story quest (Vanilla) Molag Bal says there are other Princes watching. Then you get a warning in Orsinium. Then other events kick off. It all seems very jumbled and muddled up if you did this first and then the main story quest. Is everything happening all at once? Is one after the other?

    The best fix for this might be to stop having an overall narrative, and have self contained stories in new zones without a link to one another. Alternatively, have events that trigger certain story points. Maybe it is just me, and does not need fixing? I'm not too sure about this one.

    As much as I bash this game, I'll be the first to admit its narrative and characterization is leagues beyond anything Bethesda has done in a decade. ESO is one of the few MMOs where I'm actually engaged in the moment-to-moment storytelling, and not just hooked by the background lore.

    To your last point, this is what they should have done from the beginning. ESO never should have been a faction-based, pvp-centric, linear-progression based themepark MMO. It should have been a more freeform, open-ended sandbox experience with a bigger emphasis on exploration, player freedom and emergent storytelling.

    One Tamriel has only confirmed this for me. In my opinion, this update emphasized every positive aspect of the game, while drawing attention to its flaws. The game, at its core, will never quite "fit" with this new approach for the reasons you listed. It wasn't built for a "classic" Elder Scrolls experience. It's a Dark Age Of Camelot shaped peg in an Elder Scrolls shaped hole.

    I want to go on my own adventures with my friends, to experience a living, breathing world. I think this IP would be better suited for a modern-day Star Wars Galaxies, or Ashes Of Creation type MMO: games about exploring a freeform sandbox with your friends, with player-driven goals and conflicts.
    Edited by psychotrip on March 31, 2018 12:34AM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • Maryal
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    I'm tired of constantly coming across posts bashing ZOS. It's always the same old same old. It would be nice to a few more positive posts about the game.
  • Skander
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    What's going on in pvp? Who has the biggest Group Wins. And you can't to anything about it.

    And it's annoying
    I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
    -Elder Nightblades Online
    Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations
  • GeorgeBlack
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    Skander wrote: »
    What's going on in pvp? Who has the biggest Group Wins. And you can't to anything about it.

    And it's annoying

    Open world PvP and paralel non PvP world can help.
    At the switch of a channel
  • Moloch1514
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    Been here since the closed Betas. Things changed with the departure of the original dev team and the hiring of the cash shop team. This is now a team driven by marketing, so players like us are the least of their concerns. They've made their money on us, so they are looking to hook the next potential whales. After this long, you start seeing the repeated content (copy/paste Homestead lol) and repeated lack of innovation outside of Crown Crate fashion.
    PC-NA
  • psychotrip
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    Maryal wrote: »
    I'm tired of constantly coming across posts bashing ZOS. It's always the same old same old. It would be nice to a few more positive posts about the game.

    If you're confident in a game's quality, don't let people being negative get to you. People are always going to gripe. Even if I think many complaints about ESO are justified, they shouldn't come at the expense of your enjoyment.
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
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