Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
The Nightblade Nerfs are coming, better let the good ones negotiate the changes
-
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Kuramas9tails wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
@StaticWave Thank you!
andPriyasekarssk wrote: »Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak?
WHAT?! Have you ever healed in your ESO life? Crit healing is a thing for all. I am just.....I can't take you serious anymore. Cloak just guarantees a crit heal. All others are percentage based on your personal crit. Combat physician anyone?
You cannot refute right ? Ok no problem.Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 29, 2018 3:56PM0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emmagoldman wrote: »@sha-ext your dead on. People making balance changes based on solo or 1vx is limited.
I main mag sorc and feel nb is at a generally good spot and the game is getting close to a good balance. We all have to accept that some classes will be more of a pain than others for or own class. Example, People complain a lot about stamwarden, for a sorc, we streak right through to the other side of that burst. Yet I hate dealing with dks and being fossilized, especially if they get all batty on me at the same time
A slight nerf to incap would be ok but ideas such as cost increase for cloak isnt needed. If your a magsorc, which im a slighty better than avg (very very slightly), cloak is incrediably easy to counter with streak or ruin. Though without a doubt, a good magnb can line up better burst. Key word is good. Yes in pve the parse on a single target better. Thats ok, ill take range and better aoe
Stamnb is experiencing the same issue as magsorc a couple of patches ago. People are blaming the class instead of looking at what sets or changes to other classes that are making it op. It wasnt really that magsorc was op, it was pirate skelton, while it worked on shields. I mentioned this patches ago, and we can see how it turned out. Then there is always highly over the top suggestions such as have crits on shields
In stamnb case, the problem is with asylum 2h as it allows incap to charge quickly and stamnb benefits more than other classes because of the low cost and its part of the general rotation. A good stam nb will use a potion after the first incap, and while using executioner quickly generate that ult back up. Bringing 2h executioners "execute" down to 45% or 40% might help and slightly adjusting asylum 2h. Key word, slight. This would also slightly nerf stamwarden and 2h stamdk and not effect end game pve
HA meta also plays into this. You cant just get rid of a stun on incap because at this point, if you cant stun a HA user, they will heal right up. For templars, its 2 cast of bol to full health. CC is very powerful because it gives potential for burst, yet HA has defense to outlive and possible cc immunity with 2h (stamdk, warden)
So you have shuffle with a max of 3.5 secs or go HA, forward momentum for 8. Stamwarden can get brutality outside of ralley, so forward momentum. Id like to see them flipped and adjusted. Forward momentum for 3.5 and shuffle for 6. So its a slight buffs to medium armor and yes to nbs, but then you could look at removing the stun in incap as nb has fear and wouldnt need two cc effects.
Magsorc also was a little too nerfed. Frags needs a morph with one that stuns at the current low damage and one that has no stun, with high dmg as before. However, there would need to be a slight nerf to masters staff as it would allow a cheap spammable with knockback and allow for the higher dmg frag. Streak could also use a 1m increase as kiting isnt really an option. It would be richer game play and allow more build options.
In short, its not just about nerfing a class but trying to see the whole picture
I hope people will read this post and take it to heart. Nothing happens in a vacuum and asylum weapons have been having a rippling effect. Nerf the weapons, don't ruin an entire class.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.Edited by DDuke on March 29, 2018 4:14PM2 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 29, 2018 4:40PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
Edited by DDuke on March 29, 2018 4:57PM0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
pure insult and speculation.
you know for a fact the people who are trying to defend nightblade class are doing so because you guys keep making false claims.1 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. I know many pro stamblade does that with ease. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow or focused aim critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from until you die. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You cannot charge a person 35M away.Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 29, 2018 5:10PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You can charge a person 35M away.
Two, yes -sort of. Not 3 because casting cloak also triggers the 1s global cooldown & you've got only 2s left of cloak afterwards. With 1.1s cast time you can cast one Lethal Arrow & almost finish casting second before cloak wears off.
It's the same as casting it from sneak basically (except no sneak attack stun), and not very effective given that those Lethal Arrows land 1s apart.
If you dodge roll after the first one is cast & the second is still casting, you'll typically dodge both arrows - very easy to deal with, which is why one doesn't play Lethal Arrow spam build if they want to play bow competitively. If you think I'm wrong, link me one video of a Lethal Arrow spammer doing 1vX PvP. Or better yet, duels.Edited by DDuke on March 29, 2018 5:21PM0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You can charge a person 35M away.
Two, yes -sort of. Not 3 because casting cloak also triggers the 1s global cooldown & you've got only 2s left of cloak afterwards. With 1.1s cast time you can cast one Lethal Arrow & almost finish casting second before cloak wears off.
It's the same as casting it from sneak basically, and not very effective given that Lethal Arrows land 1s apart.
If you dodge roll after the first one is cast & the second is still casting, you'll typically dodge both arrows - very easy to deal with, which is why one doesn't play Lethal Arrow spam build if they want to play bow competitively. If you think I'm wrong, link me one video of a Lethal Arrow spammer doing 1vX PvP. Or better yet, duels.
Yes, of course you can dodge roll immediately after first snipe, if you have time . Or you can go in stealth immediately. Problem here is snipe doesn't hit immediately . Its a projectile. Caster will snipped the second one , even before the first one landed on you.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You can charge a person 35M away.
Two, yes -sort of. Not 3 because casting cloak also triggers the 1s global cooldown & you've got only 2s left of cloak afterwards. With 1.1s cast time you can cast one Lethal Arrow & almost finish casting second before cloak wears off.
It's the same as casting it from sneak basically, and not very effective given that Lethal Arrows land 1s apart.
If you dodge roll after the first one is cast & the second is still casting, you'll typically dodge both arrows - very easy to deal with, which is why one doesn't play Lethal Arrow spam build if they want to play bow competitively. If you think I'm wrong, link me one video of a Lethal Arrow spammer doing 1vX PvP. Or better yet, duels.
Yes, of course you can dodge roll immediately after first snipe, if you have time . Or you can go in stealth immediately. Problem here is snipe doesn't hit immediately . Its a projectile. Caster will snipped the second one , even before the first one landed on you.
Yeah, unfortunately there are still some bugs with projectiles.
I recorded this a while ago:
https://youtu.be/IOn-Nyf2APE
Basically all it takes is dodging during the cast time of a projectile to dodge it.
That's why I wrote that you can usually dodge both Lethal Arrows if you dodge after the first one is in the air (and second one is still being cast).
Another reason why Lethal Arrow spam builds are... less than optimal.0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You can charge a person 35M away.
Two, yes -sort of. Not 3 because casting cloak also triggers the 1s global cooldown & you've got only 2s left of cloak afterwards. With 1.1s cast time you can cast one Lethal Arrow & almost finish casting second before cloak wears off.
It's the same as casting it from sneak basically, and not very effective given that Lethal Arrows land 1s apart.
If you dodge roll after the first one is cast & the second is still casting, you'll typically dodge both arrows - very easy to deal with, which is why one doesn't play Lethal Arrow spam build if they want to play bow competitively. If you think I'm wrong, link me one video of a Lethal Arrow spammer doing 1vX PvP. Or better yet, duels.
Yes, of course you can dodge roll immediately after first snipe, if you have time . Or you can go in stealth immediately. Problem here is snipe doesn't hit immediately . Its a projectile. Caster will snipped the second one , even before the first one landed on you.
Yeah, unfortunately there are still some bugs with projectiles.
I recorded this a while ago:https://youtu.be/IOn-Nyf2APE
Basically all it takes is dodging during the cast time of a projectile to dodge it.
That's why I wrote that you can usually dodge both Lethal Arrows if you dodge after the first one is in the air (and second one is still being cast).
Another reason why Lethal Arrow spam builds are... less than optimal.
A non ultimate skill , which is spammable should not hit more 5k , which has more than 35 M range and in stealth and also debuff target. NB can make it guaranteed crit 10-15k per hit is far more than an ultimate. I would go with fixing snipes or NB Guaranteed critical chance for ranged ablities > 20M . Of course you could argue its not an night blade issue. I agreed that you can dodge roll immediately , if you have time if you are lucky. Normally you wont get any time, if lag factored in.
Why would an normal ranged spammable ablity > 35 M range hit like a ultimate with a debuff with 2 in a row that too , you wont even know who the attacker is ? If you think this is balanced , PVP not going to survive. Soon PVP will be full of stam night-blades cloaking around and play hide and seek with bows and 2H, which includes mine. Its a matter of time.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You can charge a person 35M away.
Two, yes -sort of. Not 3 because casting cloak also triggers the 1s global cooldown & you've got only 2s left of cloak afterwards. With 1.1s cast time you can cast one Lethal Arrow & almost finish casting second before cloak wears off.
It's the same as casting it from sneak basically, and not very effective given that Lethal Arrows land 1s apart.
If you dodge roll after the first one is cast & the second is still casting, you'll typically dodge both arrows - very easy to deal with, which is why one doesn't play Lethal Arrow spam build if they want to play bow competitively. If you think I'm wrong, link me one video of a Lethal Arrow spammer doing 1vX PvP. Or better yet, duels.
Yes, of course you can dodge roll immediately after first snipe, if you have time . Or you can go in stealth immediately. Problem here is snipe doesn't hit immediately . Its a projectile. Caster will snipped the second one , even before the first one landed on you.
Yeah, unfortunately there are still some bugs with projectiles.
I recorded this a while ago:https://youtu.be/IOn-Nyf2APE
Basically all it takes is dodging during the cast time of a projectile to dodge it.
That's why I wrote that you can usually dodge both Lethal Arrows if you dodge after the first one is in the air (and second one is still being cast).
Another reason why Lethal Arrow spam builds are... less than optimal.
A non ultimate skill , which is spammable should not hit more 5k , which has more than 35 M range and in stealth and also debuff target. NB can make it guaranteed crit 10-15k per hit is far more than an ultimate. I would go with fixing snipes or NB Guaranteed critical chance for ranged ablities > 20M . Of course you could argue its not an night blade issue. I agreed that you can dodge roll immediately , if you have time if you are lucky. Normally you wont get any time, if lag factored in.
Well, it does usually hit for around 5k from most players in their Hundings Rages and whatnot. My melee stamblade's Surprise Attack (instant cast, harder to dodge, applies Major Fracture, stuns if done from cloak) hits harder than that.
A properly built archer however can crit around 10k'ish on average with normal snipes & 15k with Asylum Snipes. This is on target with 7 impen & optimal CP allocation.
If you're getting hit by 15k regular snipes, you've got work to do (I would crit you for 20k+ with Asylum Snipe).
Check impen, check mitigation, put more points into Hardy/Ironclad if necessary.
In the end, most of the regular bow builds are far less dangerous than overload gank builds for instance (which hit way harder), or Dark Flare->Jav->Jbeam gankplars (which have a killer follow up after their burst combo).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Why would an normal ranged spammable ablity > 35 M range hit like a ultimate with a debuff with 2 in a row that too , you wont even know who the attacker is ? If you think this is balanced , PVP not going to survive. Soon PVP will be full of stam night-blades cloaking around and play hide and seek with bows and 2H, which includes mine. Its a matter of time.
Several reasons, one being the fact that it has a cast time, is dodgeable and has a long travel time. Also, it doesn't actually hit harder than ultimates like Incap, DBOS, Meteor etc (I can post tooltips if you want). Not without Asylum Bow that is.
I think you're overstating the potency of these builds, you should try playing one before judging. I've never seen a Lethal Arrow spammer do well in 1v1 or 1vX, the only time they get kills is when they've got a whole zerg carrying them.Edited by DDuke on March 29, 2018 6:30PM2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Kuramas9tails wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
@StaticWave Thank you!
andPriyasekarssk wrote: »Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak?
WHAT?! Have you ever healed in your ESO life? Crit healing is a thing for all. I am just.....I can't take you serious anymore. Cloak just guarantees a crit heal. All others are percentage based on your personal crit. Combat physician anyone?
You cannot refute right ? Ok no problem.
Exactly, nobody should be getting 100% crit heals. At best you’re rocking 49 to 50% or less on a typical PVP build, meaning about half do Crit and half don’t.
Having all heal ticks crit all of the time under shadow disguise is like handing nightblades major mending. It is a bug, it needs to be fixed, you guys really don’t need to be running around with that.Edited by Minalan on March 29, 2018 7:59PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WHFxqenfsPTqeQC31KfXESFbrRARaweu
Yea, tell me how Incap is better than DB in this situation. My DB killed 2 people immediately, while dropping the other 3 to 20% hp.
If you are dropping ults with 2 players ofc DBoS is better.
But these people are bad, getting hit for 13k by dawnbreaker speaks for their builds.
But these fights are rare for 1vX and 1v1 I'd Pick incap every day over leap or DBoS.
What does it help me to have an AoE when i can only hit one target anyway. In most 1vX fights you don't kill more than one enemy at the time. You always kill the weakest and then work through your enemies until it ends in an 1v1 against the strongest of them and if i can't win that 1v1 the whole 1vX was crap.
No. That ult was mine. My teammate did not drop an ult there. If you looked at my combat log I did 10k+ dmg to all of them.
Thats a specific scenario in which DB is better than incap. Tight space and everyone being stacked. It was also a kinda lucky scenario considering that everyone were kinda squishy and u got a crit on almost everyone. In the same scenario a mDK with standard of might could melt every single one of them in a few seconds. That doesnt make standard of might better than incap or DB.0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭TL:DR: Read my post or don't discuss hereBANK_IT_HERE wrote: »Right now Nightblades are more popular than ever, they have always been very popular as most people seem to be drawn to the rouge or assassin's playstyle.
But with past balance changes nightblades performance jumped from being a good to overperfoming.
When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades.
When looking at the other parts of the game, stamnbs and magnbs pull the highest ST meele and ranged damage thus are prefered for Trial groups. They also grant their group decent damage buffs with a high uptime on major slayer by utilising warmachine or master architect.
So why did they became so popular especially in pvp?
First nightblades have the easiest time to get kills even at low skill levels.
Your burst is front loaded so you don't need to survive to get the most out of your burst.
The burst is very high even when running a sustain build you pull equally high numbers as the other classes even when they are using offensive focused builds.
Also NB feature the cheapest single target nuke ability with 3 powerful effects, cc, major defile and a unique 20% damage boost for 6 seconds, aswell as an non ultimate nuke that has a higher tooltip than incap which got changed twice to become useable even for the worst players and a high damage spammable that also applies major fracture.
These 3 things are enough to kill 80% of all players in cyro even if you have no idea about the game.
The fun doesn't stop here however, nightblades also have great defence and the best mobility skill in the game, shadow image. There is no skill in the whole game that can compete with the kiting opportunities this skill has to offer. And what you shouldn't forget nightblades also have access to cloak, when used right cloak prevents you from taking any kinds of damage, gives you unlimited crit heals which equals to having major mending and vitality all the time and makes you invisible for your enemy so he has no idea where you are going or that you are even there.
This strength comes at a price tho. Cloak only saves you as long as it doesn't get countered here is what distinguishes good nightblades from bad nightblades. A good Nightblade won't let you counter cloak with things like AoEs or mage light. The only way to catch them is by using mark aka being a nightblade yourself or using detection pots which come at a very high opportunity cost while having a long cooldown on top.
To round up the package nightblades have access to some of the greatest passives in the game along with other strong utility skills and due to their defence being able to completely negate any incoming damage they are able to run high damage builds with bad in-fight survivability because they don't have to be in a fight they don't want to be in.
This results in a class that can kill most players in few seconds, while being able to escape reliably when they fail to be successful. Mixed with the low cost of incap and the overall effectiveness of the nightblades toolkit they can continue to engage and disengage at will until they are successful or mess up. With increasing skill level the numbers of times you die because you messed up goes to zero.
So we have nightblades, a class that can hunt everyone but doesn't have to fear the other classes. The only natural predator a nightblade has today is ,outside of its own lack of skill, other nightblades.
All this will result in changes to the nightblade class or to say the bad words: Nightblades will be nerfed!
Due to their popularity in game the nightblade lobby here on the forums is really loud and big but consists of many people who can't fully utilise the class to its full strength and thus saying that they are weak.
But every good Nightblade agrees that they are currently too strong.
So we are heading towards nerfs, they will come and when the community doesn't provide good proposals nightblades will end where stamdk is in pvp or magwarden is in pve right now, completely outclassed by everything else.
There are a few things which are hot candidates for getting nerfed:
Incap: even magnbs are running this over the magicka version as it gives you so much burst with the high damage and cc tied to it. and the skill is overloaded to begin with. This would be the attempt to make the killing power of nightblades a bit less threatening. The easiest way is to remove the CC. This forces the nb to use one additional GCD for a CC to land its burst. In pvp this is a lot.
Short Example: With CC on Incap:
(1.GCD) Heavy attack+ incap from stealth ~9k damage 10k when using Bash aswell
(2.GCD) Light attack+will ~ 12k damage/ 10k when light attack+ Suprise attack
Most players cannot react fast enough to break the CC and avoid the will because the incap cc is as buggy as it is but also due to lag.
Most players in cyro have 23-26k health. So in just 1 second of fight they are at 1-5k health with major defile on them + 20% more damage taken. To survive in this situation you have to dodge, heal to atleast 12k health before the dodge roll ends and pray that the lag doesn't make the next Suprise attack hit you through dodge or that you didn't lost any health to begin with or had a dot on you. If one of these things fails you are dead.
Now the same fight without a CC on Incap:
(1. GCD) Heavy attack + fear to CC your target ~ 3-4k damage
(2.GCD) Light attack + incap ~ 7-8k damage
(3. GCD) now you want to use your will or suprise attack to secure the kill but your enemy isn't CC'ed anymore and will likely dodge so you have to wait and be more strategic when to use your abilities. The damage output against NPCs and bad players stays the same but it's harder to kill good players as easy as it is now.
Cloak: @Ragnaroek93 made a great post how to balance cloak so i hope he can share his ideas in this post. (I'm not a fan of nerfing cloak as it's the iconic nightblade skill and it gives NBs a different approach of surviving but you have to be open for everything when talking about balance)
And here is my rant for everyone who plays a nightblade himself and doesn't want the class to be nerfed. It will happen so please let the good nightblade players lead the discussions about changes to nightblades they have no intrest to kill the class by any means but make it balanced and fun to play. If you have never played alone as a stamblade, fail to reach 40k single target self buffed or haven't completed atleast 4 hm trials, have more than 10 deaths during a 4 hour pvp session or lose many 1v1 fights you should rethink if you have the needed insight for balance discussions about nightblades.
This is not elitism this is to prevent overnerfs for one class
Edit: never write BB code and mix up \ with /
Waaaayyyyy TLDR. Give me short version...and what's your source for nb nerfs?
NB has an advantage over other classes due to easy burst, good defence which doesn't need much investment to be very very effective + best DD for both stam and mag etc.
Point of the thread: I don't want nb to get over nerfed so good players should take lead of the discussion
As a magsorc main definitely agree with you here. I'm scared for how my class balance will go just because the community has such a convoluted perception of what is "too strong" and "too weak" on mag sorcs.
Not trying to hijack the thread, just wanted to draw a parallel to magsorcs as they were over performing but were nerfed in the wrong areas and randomly "buffed?", hiding the over performing aspects of the class behind the mediocrity of the rest of the class kit (from a PvP perspective). Based on the majority of responses in this thread I feel bad for night blade mains already.
Stamblade is my secondary or third class. I have made 3 mil AP "solo" in 3 days back when taking a keep gave 100 AP and I have messed around with magblade, so allow me to give my 2 cents.
First off, your combat example in the OP is a little misleading. No good player is going to be caught out without their defensive buffs going. A real combat scenario would have HoTs ticking or Shields absorbing damage. Just something to consider as it exaggerates how much night blades are over-performing .
That said, I do think the class could do with some fine-tuning, and I'll focus on the 2 biggest targets.
Incapacitating StrikeI don't think the CC removal is the way to go. It just doesn't make sense thematically unless you change the skill name (At which point I'd honestly be ok, not supportive of but ok, with the CC removal). I'd rather see the bonus damage or Major Defile go away and change the CC to a stun instead of a knock back.
Imo, the CC on incap is what makes night blades so fun to play as it allows for some diversity in how they secure their kills. A burst rotation is almost always centred around some kind of CC meaning the more CC options one has, the more diversity in their burst rotations they have. Take the CC off of incap and now NBs need to crutch on Fear. Offensive rotations become stale and overly predictable. And we really don't need another class spamming Dizzy. Those fights are just two people walking past each other to cheese the skill.
While the CC change to Frags did create a lot of build diversity for Magicka Sorcs (relative to before), it did so only because Frags vastly outperformed the other options 90% of the time. The Frag nerf made it so that Rune Cage, Clench and Streak are all competitive as primary sources of CC, thereby increasing build diversity.
Now, night blades already have CC alternatives that are competitive with incap. Fear or stunning from stealth both have their benefits (most often to set up an incap anyways). Removing the the CC from incap removes a CC, thereby decreasing total number of competitive CC's as opposed to how CC removal from Frags increased the number of competitive CCs. Additionally, it doesn't really affect primary night blade rotations as many like to Fear and then incap meaning the CC is barely used anyways.
CloakNow drawing on my experience as a Mag Sorc and considerable experience as a stam sorc, a fatigue cost is something you learn to play around. That said, it's annoying. It really just feels bad. I wouldn't want any other class to ever get a fatigue cost on their skills.A fatigue cost would just be annoying to magblades (most good ones don't even run Cloak) but be far too detrimental to stamblades.
Now I don't know what @Ragnaroek93 proposed, but my suggestion would be to increase the base duration of Cloak to 4.5 seconds but have the duration decrease by 2 seconds for the next 8.5 seconds down to a minimum of 0.5 seconds every time Cloak is used. This would be a nice buff for properly using Cloak and a huge nerf to cloak spammers. You get 2 solid uses of cloak every 8.5 seconds, but if you start to crutch on it you only get 0.5 seconds of Cloak and you need to wait 8 seconds to reset the duration.
I really don't think night blades are THAT far ahead of other classes. I really wouldn't touch anything in their kit until minor balance passes to Incap and Cloak are done. Those are 2 class defining skills, and their kit SHOULD be built around these abilities as they embody if philosophy of the class.
Balance is a lot closer right now than it has ever been since I started playing.The Meta is garbage right now but class balance is pretty solid.1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WHFxqenfsPTqeQC31KfXESFbrRARaweu
Yea, tell me how Incap is better than DB in this situation. My DB killed 2 people immediately, while dropping the other 3 to 20% hp.
If you are dropping ults with 2 players ofc DBoS is better.
But these people are bad, getting hit for 13k by dawnbreaker speaks for their builds.
But these fights are rare for 1vX and 1v1 I'd Pick incap every day over leap or DBoS.
What does it help me to have an AoE when i can only hit one target anyway. In most 1vX fights you don't kill more than one enemy at the time. You always kill the weakest and then work through your enemies until it ends in an 1v1 against the strongest of them and if i can't win that 1v1 the whole 1vX was crap.
No. That ult was mine. My teammate did not drop an ult there. If you looked at my combat log I did 10k+ dmg to all of them.
Thats a specific scenario in which DB is better than incap. Tight space and everyone being stacked. It was also a kinda lucky scenario considering that everyone were kinda squishy and u got a crit on almost everyone. In the same scenario a mDK with standard of might could melt every single one of them in a few seconds. That doesnt make standard of might better than incap or DB.
That's my point. DB is generally a better ult because it works well in groups and solo. Incap only excels in solo PvP. If you play outnumbered like I do, you would prefer DB over Incap .0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Have you watched videos of magblades using destro ult to pull 20+ kills on a zerg? It's all over youtube. The power of a bomb build relies on vicious death proc. When you have 2 powerful aoes and a set that does 15k aoe dmg whenever someone dies, it's going to kill people. Nbs are better at the using the build because they can cloak. That's it. I can pull off the same feat on my magsorc if I wanted to.
"It cannot be countered"? Where are your proofs for that? Literally the easiest way to counter that playstyle is to leave the area... They're not gonna chase you, because they'll risk revealing their position. Lethal arrow needs a fix, but that has nothing to do with Nbs. Other classes can become a ganker. Have you seen a stamplar running a sniping build? Heavy bow attack, potl, snipe, javelin can reduce people's hp from 100 to 0 in a matter of seconds. What is the point of slotting cloak then if you want it to be unusable for 3 seconds after using a skill? Most gankers stay in sneak anyway, so it's literally useless to even slot cloak if you wanted that change to happen.
Your argument makes no sense. What does cloak have to do with heals? Stamblades only have 2 heals and no passives that buff healing. All other classes either have passives that buff healing, or an extra healing skill. For instance, stamplars have minor mending. Stamdks have major mending, green dragon blood. Stamsorcs have darkdeal and crit surge. Stamwardens are a healing powerhouse with soothing spores, leeching vines, major mending, etc. What about stamblades? They have vigor and rally, which can be used by any classes. They have siphoning attacks, which only heals for 750hp per light attack. Most stamblades don't even run that skill.
"Other classes lack critical heal"...??? Please point out to me where you got this info from, because it's absolutely ridiculous. Crit heal isnt tied to Nbs. Any class can crit heal if they have enough crit %. If you crit heal with major mending buff, you'll heal for a crap ton more. Nbs don't have any buffs, so why do you want to take that away from them when it's their only way to compete with other classes in survivability? You take that away, and they are forced to stay in stealth. Then you'll complain about cloak.1 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Your argument makes no sense. What does cloak have to do with heals? Stamblades only have 2 heals and no passives that buff healing. All other classes either have passives that buff healing, or an extra healing skill. For instance, stamplars have minor mending. Stamdks have major mending, green dragon blood. Stamsorcs have darkdeal and crit surge. Stamwardens are a healing powerhouse with soothing spores, leeching vines, major mending, etc. What about stamblades? They have vigor and rally, which can be used by any classes. They have siphoning attacks, which only heals for 750hp per light attack. Most stamblades don't even run that skill.
"Other classes lack critical heal"...??? Please point out to me where you got this info from, because it's absolutely ridiculous. Crit heal isnt tied to Nbs. Any class can crit heal if they have enough crit %. If you crit heal with major mending buff, you'll heal for a crap ton more. Nbs don't have any buffs, so why do you want to take that away from them when it's their only way to compete with other classes in survivability? You take that away, and they are forced to stay in stealth. Then you'll complain about cloak.
General consensus is that Stam Sorcs have the worst healing. I've played every stam class PvP solo and pulled off at least a 1v3 vs competent players (know how to not die) on all of them and Stam Sorc healing is by far the worse. If you think Dark Deal is a reliable heal consider it the stam version of Magplars Healing Ritual that everyone agrees is trash. It's really unreliable, niche and used primarily for stam regen. Crit Surge is only good in heavily outnumbered fights. Most stam sorcs either don't run it or keep it on their overload bar as the healing it provides isn't worth it's opportunity cost. I did run it on my stam sorc btw. Took it off and barely noticed a difference and I was running a crit based build.
BTW, Nightblades actually do have increased healing passives they just don't need to use them because Shadowy Disguise heals are that strong. Siphoning Strikes is much more useful and more used than Crit Surge. Maybe not in terms of healing (I haven't done the math but consider that average weapon crit is around 44% in Cyrodil whereas Siphoning is guaranteed so I'd say they are pretty even) but the stamina return is huge whereas crit surge gives Major Brutality which you get from Rally anyways. Nightblades also have access to Minor Vitality. You're right that other classes have other sources of healing besides Vigor and Rally, but you conveniently neglect to mention that they require these extra heals to be competitive.
Put another way, a stamblade ONLY needs Vigor and Rally. Yet;
stamDKs ONLY activate Igneous Shield to proc Major Mending on top of Vigor and Rally/FM,
Stamsorcs ONLY slot Crit Surge for extra heals on top of Vigor and Rally/FM,
Stamplar healing options (skill wise) is actually pretty bad and is more gear/cp/player skill dependant,
Stamdens...no comment.
DKs and Sorcs need to slot minimum 1 additional skill dedicated solely to healing in order to survive.
Meanwhile NBs only need Vigor and Rally because 100% crit heals while cloaked is competitive with what other classes have except stamblades don't need to sacrifice a skill slot to increase their healing. It's just icing on the cake and gives medium armor stamblades heavy armor healing.
That said I really don't care that stamblades can 100% crit their heals. You just conveniently ignore the fact that NB healing is very strong and they don't even need to spec for it which is the kind of thing OP wants to avoid.
*This is all assuming no Troll King0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You can charge a person 35M away.
Two, yes -sort of. Not 3 because casting cloak also triggers the 1s global cooldown & you've got only 2s left of cloak afterwards. With 1.1s cast time you can cast one Lethal Arrow & almost finish casting second before cloak wears off.
It's the same as casting it from sneak basically, and not very effective given that Lethal Arrows land 1s apart.
If you dodge roll after the first one is cast & the second is still casting, you'll typically dodge both arrows - very easy to deal with, which is why one doesn't play Lethal Arrow spam build if they want to play bow competitively. If you think I'm wrong, link me one video of a Lethal Arrow spammer doing 1vX PvP. Or better yet, duels.
Yes, of course you can dodge roll immediately after first snipe, if you have time . Or you can go in stealth immediately. Problem here is snipe doesn't hit immediately . Its a projectile. Caster will snipped the second one , even before the first one landed on you.
Yeah, unfortunately there are still some bugs with projectiles.
I recorded this a while ago:https://youtu.be/IOn-Nyf2APE
Basically all it takes is dodging during the cast time of a projectile to dodge it.
That's why I wrote that you can usually dodge both Lethal Arrows if you dodge after the first one is in the air (and second one is still being cast).
Another reason why Lethal Arrow spam builds are... less than optimal.
A non ultimate skill , which is spammable should not hit more 5k , which has more than 35 M range and in stealth and also debuff target. NB can make it guaranteed crit 10-15k per hit is far more than an ultimate. I would go with fixing snipes or NB Guaranteed critical chance for ranged ablities > 20M . Of course you could argue its not an night blade issue. I agreed that you can dodge roll immediately , if you have time if you are lucky. Normally you wont get any time, if lag factored in.
Well, it does usually hit for around 5k from most players in their Hundings Rages and whatnot. My melee stamblade's Surprise Attack (instant cast, harder to dodge, applies Major Fracture, stuns if done from cloak) hits harder than that.
A properly built archer however can crit around 10k'ish on average with normal snipes & 15k with Asylum Snipes. This is on target with 7 impen & optimal CP allocation.
If you're getting hit by 15k regular snipes, you've got work to do (I would crit you for 20k+ with Asylum Snipe).
Check impen, check mitigation, put more points into Hardy/Ironclad if necessary.
In the end, most of the regular bow builds are far less dangerous than overload gank builds for instance (which hit way harder), or Dark Flare->Jav->Jbeam gankplars (which have a killer follow up after their burst combo).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Why would an normal ranged spammable ablity > 35 M range hit like a ultimate with a debuff with 2 in a row that too , you wont even know who the attacker is ? If you think this is balanced , PVP not going to survive. Soon PVP will be full of stam night-blades cloaking around and play hide and seek with bows and 2H, which includes mine. Its a matter of time.
Several reasons, one being the fact that it has a cast time, is dodgeable and has a long travel time. Also, it doesn't actually hit harder than ultimates like Incap, DBOS, Meteor etc (I can post tooltips if you want). Not without Asylum Bow that is.
I think you're overstating the potency of these builds, you should try playing one before judging. I've never seen a Lethal Arrow spammer do well in 1v1 or 1vX, the only time they get kills is when they've got a whole zerg carrying them.
I am not overstating anything, Lethal or focused aim hits pretty hard , than ncap, DBOS, Meteor even for single hit. Metor comes with a telegraph even for an ultimate. Reason is it comes back to back poison injection back to back. When I am fighting someone in melee range, someone in distant just spam 2 arrows and everything is over.Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You can charge a person 35M away.
Two, yes -sort of. Not 3 because casting cloak also triggers the 1s global cooldown & you've got only 2s left of cloak afterwards. With 1.1s cast time you can cast one Lethal Arrow & almost finish casting second before cloak wears off.
It's the same as casting it from sneak basically, and not very effective given that Lethal Arrows land 1s apart.
If you dodge roll after the first one is cast & the second is still casting, you'll typically dodge both arrows - very easy to deal with, which is why one doesn't play Lethal Arrow spam build if they want to play bow competitively. If you think I'm wrong, link me one video of a Lethal Arrow spammer doing 1vX PvP. Or better yet, duels.
Yes, of course you can dodge roll immediately after first snipe, if you have time . Or you can go in stealth immediately. Problem here is snipe doesn't hit immediately . Its a projectile. Caster will snipped the second one , even before the first one landed on you.
Yeah, unfortunately there are still some bugs with projectiles.
I recorded this a while ago:https://youtu.be/IOn-Nyf2APE
Basically all it takes is dodging during the cast time of a projectile to dodge it.
That's why I wrote that you can usually dodge both Lethal Arrows if you dodge after the first one is in the air (and second one is still being cast).
Another reason why Lethal Arrow spam builds are... less than optimal.
A non ultimate skill , which is spammable should not hit more 5k , which has more than 35 M range and in stealth and also debuff target. NB can make it guaranteed crit 10-15k per hit is far more than an ultimate. I would go with fixing snipes or NB Guaranteed critical chance for ranged ablities > 20M . Of course you could argue its not an night blade issue. I agreed that you can dodge roll immediately , if you have time if you are lucky. Normally you wont get any time, if lag factored in.
Well, it does usually hit for around 5k from most players in their Hundings Rages and whatnot. My melee stamblade's Surprise Attack (instant cast, harder to dodge, applies Major Fracture, stuns if done from cloak) hits harder than that.
A properly built archer however can crit around 10k'ish on average with normal snipes & 15k with Asylum Snipes. This is on target with 7 impen & optimal CP allocation.
If you're getting hit by 15k regular snipes, you've got work to do (I would crit you for 20k+ with Asylum Snipe).
Check impen, check mitigation, put more points into Hardy/Ironclad if necessary.
In the end, most of the regular bow builds are far less dangerous than overload gank builds for instance (which hit way harder), or Dark Flare->Jav->Jbeam gankplars (which have a killer follow up after their burst combo).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Why would an normal ranged spammable ablity > 35 M range hit like a ultimate with a debuff with 2 in a row that too , you wont even know who the attacker is ? If you think this is balanced , PVP not going to survive. Soon PVP will be full of stam night-blades cloaking around and play hide and seek with bows and 2H, which includes mine. Its a matter of time.
Several reasons, one being the fact that it has a cast time, is dodgeable and has a long travel time. Also, it doesn't actually hit harder than ultimates like Incap, DBOS, Meteor etc (I can post tooltips if you want). Not without Asylum Bow that is.
I think you're overstating the potency of these builds, you should try playing one before judging. I've never seen a Lethal Arrow spammer do well in 1v1 or 1vX, the only time they get kills is when they've got a whole zerg carrying them.
Again you are not refut
What does cloak have to do with heals? This itself shows your level in game. Sorry I dont want to waste time. Either NB nerf or PVP full of NBs destroying PVP once for all. When entire community is telling NB is overpowered, why are you even wasting time with invalid points. NB will be nerfed for sure.StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Have you watched videos of magblades using destro ult to pull 20+ kills on a zerg? It's all over youtube. The power of a bomb build relies on vicious death proc. When you have 2 powerful aoes and a set that does 15k aoe dmg whenever someone dies, it's going to kill people. Nbs are better at the using the build because they can cloak. That's it. I can pull off the same feat on my magsorc if I wanted to.
"It cannot be countered"? Where are your proofs for that? Literally the easiest way to counter that playstyle is to leave the area... They're not gonna chase you, because they'll risk revealing their position. Lethal arrow needs a fix, but that has nothing to do with Nbs. Other classes can become a ganker. Have you seen a stamplar running a sniping build? Heavy bow attack, potl, snipe, javelin can reduce people's hp from 100 to 0 in a matter of seconds. What is the point of slotting cloak then if you want it to be unusable for 3 seconds after using a skill? Most gankers stay in sneak anyway, so it's literally useless to even slot cloak if you wanted that change to happen.
Your argument makes no sense. What does cloak have to do with heals? Stamblades only have 2 heals and no passives that buff healing. All other classes either have passives that buff healing, or an extra healing skill. For instance, stamplars have minor mending. Stamdks have major mending, green dragon blood. Stamsorcs have darkdeal and crit surge. Stamwardens are a healing powerhouse with soothing spores, leeching vines, major mending, etc. What about stamblades? They have vigor and rally, which can be used by any classes. They have siphoning attacks, which only heals for 750hp per light attack. Most stamblades don't even run that skill.
"Other classes lack critical heal"...??? Please point out to me where you got this info from, because it's absolutely ridiculous. Crit heal isnt tied to Nbs. Any class can crit heal if they have enough crit %. If you crit heal with major mending buff, you'll heal for a crap ton more. Nbs don't have any buffs, so why do you want to take that away from them when it's their only way to compete with other classes in survivability? You take that away, and they are forced to stay in stealth. Then you'll complain about cloak.Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 30, 2018 4:52PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WHFxqenfsPTqeQC31KfXESFbrRARaweu
Yea, tell me how Incap is better than DB in this situation. My DB killed 2 people immediately, while dropping the other 3 to 20% hp.
If you are dropping ults with 2 players ofc DBoS is better.
But these people are bad, getting hit for 13k by dawnbreaker speaks for their builds.
But these fights are rare for 1vX and 1v1 I'd Pick incap every day over leap or DBoS.
What does it help me to have an AoE when i can only hit one target anyway. In most 1vX fights you don't kill more than one enemy at the time. You always kill the weakest and then work through your enemies until it ends in an 1v1 against the strongest of them and if i can't win that 1v1 the whole 1vX was crap.
No. That ult was mine. My teammate did not drop an ult there. If you looked at my combat log I did 10k+ dmg to all of them.
Thats a specific scenario in which DB is better than incap. Tight space and everyone being stacked. It was also a kinda lucky scenario considering that everyone were kinda squishy and u got a crit on almost everyone. In the same scenario a mDK with standard of might could melt every single one of them in a few seconds. That doesnt make standard of might better than incap or DB.
That's my point. DB is generally a better ult because it works well in groups and solo. Incap only excels in solo PvP. If you play outnumbered like I do, you would prefer DB over Incap .
Not necessarily. A stamblade is rarely in ur specific position (5-6 people stacked on top of you) to begin with so incap doesnt even need to work that way. Thats not a really a downside for incap. A stamblade would just kite them around the tower and put them down 1 by 1. Thats why i said that its just a very specific scenario. Sure DB can look more impressive but like i said so is standard of might. That doesnt make it better. The playstyle is different but overall the result is the same. Everyone would still be dead. Incap is perfect for the NB playstyle. And also has better utility with the defile and dmg boost. I dont think it needs to be overnerfed but reverting the cc to how it was before (only apply when u have lower hp than ur opponent) is a good start and then just take it from there.
And nerf befoul in CP. One of the reasons incap looks so OP is because you cant heal for [snip] when u get hit by major defile that is amplified with befoul.
[Edited to remove profanity]Edited by ZOS_KatP on March 30, 2018 7:32PM2 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seems like you typed all that for nothing. We all know wrobel just throws darts at a nerf board when making balance decisions.
This.
Also, I still think SWardens are stronger than SNB's in PVP. I sure wouldn't mind stam in general getting a mobility nerf I'll tell you that.I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Your argument makes no sense. What does cloak have to do with heals? Stamblades only have 2 heals and no passives that buff healing. All other classes either have passives that buff healing, or an extra healing skill. For instance, stamplars have minor mending. Stamdks have major mending, green dragon blood. Stamsorcs have darkdeal and crit surge. Stamwardens are a healing powerhouse with soothing spores, leeching vines, major mending, etc. What about stamblades? They have vigor and rally, which can be used by any classes. They have siphoning attacks, which only heals for 750hp per light attack. Most stamblades don't even run that skill.
"Other classes lack critical heal"...??? Please point out to me where you got this info from, because it's absolutely ridiculous. Crit heal isnt tied to Nbs. Any class can crit heal if they have enough crit %. If you crit heal with major mending buff, you'll heal for a crap ton more. Nbs don't have any buffs, so why do you want to take that away from them when it's their only way to compete with other classes in survivability? You take that away, and they are forced to stay in stealth. Then you'll complain about cloak.
General consensus is that Stam Sorcs have the worst healing. I've played every stam class PvP solo and pulled off at least a 1v3 vs competent players (know how to not die) on all of them and Stam Sorc healing is by far the worse. If you think Dark Deal is a reliable heal consider it the stam version of Magplars Healing Ritual that everyone agrees is trash. It's really unreliable, niche and used primarily for stam regen. Crit Surge is only good in heavily outnumbered fights. Most stam sorcs either don't run it or keep it on their overload bar as the healing it provides isn't worth it's opportunity cost. I did run it on my stam sorc btw. Took it off and barely noticed a difference and I was running a crit based build.
BTW, Nightblades actually do have increased healing passives they just don't need to use them because Shadowy Disguise heals are that strong. Siphoning Strikes is much more useful and more used than Crit Surge. Maybe not in terms of healing (I haven't done the math but consider that average weapon crit is around 44% in Cyrodil whereas Siphoning is guaranteed so I'd say they are pretty even) but the stamina return is huge whereas crit surge gives Major Brutality which you get from Rally anyways. Nightblades also have access to Minor Vitality. You're right that other classes have other sources of healing besides Vigor and Rally, but you conveniently neglect to mention that they require these extra heals to be competitive.
Put another way, a stamblade ONLY needs Vigor and Rally. Yet;
stamDKs ONLY activate Igneous Shield to proc Major Mending on top of Vigor and Rally/FM,
Stamsorcs ONLY slot Crit Surge for extra heals on top of Vigor and Rally/FM,
Stamplar healing options (skill wise) is actually pretty bad and is more gear/cp/player skill dependant,
Stamdens...no comment.
DKs and Sorcs need to slot minimum 1 additional skill dedicated solely to healing in order to survive.
Meanwhile NBs only need Vigor and Rally because 100% crit heals while cloaked is competitive with what other classes have except stamblades don't need to sacrifice a skill slot to increase their healing. It's just icing on the cake and gives medium armor stamblades heavy armor healing.
That said I really don't care that stamblades can 100% crit their heals. You just conveniently ignore the fact that NB healing is very strong and they don't even need to spec for it which is the kind of thing OP wants to avoid.
*This is all assuming no Troll King
You underestimate how much healing a stamsorc can have. Darkdeal gives 4.2k hp per cast. Combine that with 1.5k you get from crit surge, it's going to give you a lot of heals. Stamsorc heals aren't weak. It's the defile that really screws them up since they can't nullify it with major mending or purge it with ritual. When you slap on impreg and run duelwield, they are a formidable opponent.
That is precisely my point. Nbs don't have an extra healing skill, so that's why they need the crit heals to stay competitive. Increased healing passives come from the siphoning skill line, but you need to slot a skill from that line to get the passive. As far as I know most stamblades don't use any skills from it. Siphoning strikes will never be as good as crit surge because you have to be actively light attacking your target, whereas crit surge proc off of any dmg you do as long as it's crit. When you have dmg stacking from multiple sources, the chance to crit increases.
You seem to forget that Nbs need to slot cloak to get that 100% crit heals. So essentially, they're sacrificing one slot to compete with other classes in healing. That is no different than sorcs slotting crit surge and dks slotting igneous. I really hate fighting good stam dks that use s/b, because whenever they're low hp, they turtle up and vigor/rally to full. But for nbs all you have to do is break their cloak and those crit heals won't be 100%.1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You can charge a person 35M away.
Two, yes -sort of. Not 3 because casting cloak also triggers the 1s global cooldown & you've got only 2s left of cloak afterwards. With 1.1s cast time you can cast one Lethal Arrow & almost finish casting second before cloak wears off.
It's the same as casting it from sneak basically, and not very effective given that Lethal Arrows land 1s apart.
If you dodge roll after the first one is cast & the second is still casting, you'll typically dodge both arrows - very easy to deal with, which is why one doesn't play Lethal Arrow spam build if they want to play bow competitively. If you think I'm wrong, link me one video of a Lethal Arrow spammer doing 1vX PvP. Or better yet, duels.
Yes, of course you can dodge roll immediately after first snipe, if you have time . Or you can go in stealth immediately. Problem here is snipe doesn't hit immediately . Its a projectile. Caster will snipped the second one , even before the first one landed on you.
Yeah, unfortunately there are still some bugs with projectiles.
I recorded this a while ago:https://youtu.be/IOn-Nyf2APE
Basically all it takes is dodging during the cast time of a projectile to dodge it.
That's why I wrote that you can usually dodge both Lethal Arrows if you dodge after the first one is in the air (and second one is still being cast).
Another reason why Lethal Arrow spam builds are... less than optimal.
A non ultimate skill , which is spammable should not hit more 5k , which has more than 35 M range and in stealth and also debuff target. NB can make it guaranteed crit 10-15k per hit is far more than an ultimate. I would go with fixing snipes or NB Guaranteed critical chance for ranged ablities > 20M . Of course you could argue its not an night blade issue. I agreed that you can dodge roll immediately , if you have time if you are lucky. Normally you wont get any time, if lag factored in.
Well, it does usually hit for around 5k from most players in their Hundings Rages and whatnot. My melee stamblade's Surprise Attack (instant cast, harder to dodge, applies Major Fracture, stuns if done from cloak) hits harder than that.
A properly built archer however can crit around 10k'ish on average with normal snipes & 15k with Asylum Snipes. This is on target with 7 impen & optimal CP allocation.
If you're getting hit by 15k regular snipes, you've got work to do (I would crit you for 20k+ with Asylum Snipe).
Check impen, check mitigation, put more points into Hardy/Ironclad if necessary.
In the end, most of the regular bow builds are far less dangerous than overload gank builds for instance (which hit way harder), or Dark Flare->Jav->Jbeam gankplars (which have a killer follow up after their burst combo).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Why would an normal ranged spammable ablity > 35 M range hit like a ultimate with a debuff with 2 in a row that too , you wont even know who the attacker is ? If you think this is balanced , PVP not going to survive. Soon PVP will be full of stam night-blades cloaking around and play hide and seek with bows and 2H, which includes mine. Its a matter of time.
Several reasons, one being the fact that it has a cast time, is dodgeable and has a long travel time. Also, it doesn't actually hit harder than ultimates like Incap, DBOS, Meteor etc (I can post tooltips if you want). Not without Asylum Bow that is.
I think you're overstating the potency of these builds, you should try playing one before judging. I've never seen a Lethal Arrow spammer do well in 1v1 or 1vX, the only time they get kills is when they've got a whole zerg carrying them.
I am not overstating anything, Lethal or focused aim hits pretty hard , than ncap, DBOS, Meteor even for single hit. Metor comes with a telegraph even for an ultimate. Reason is it comes back to back poison injection back to back. When I am fighting someone in melee range, someone in distant just spam 2 arrows and everything is over.Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Do you realize how slow what you're describing is?
Casting two Lethal Arrows straight after each other it takes 1s after the first one for the second to land. If you try to fit in two cloaks inbetween (for whatever reason) that'd be closer to 4 seconds due to the global cooldowns triggered inbetween.
The "best" long range snipe combo currently is Radiant Magelight->Lethal Arrow->Lethal Arrow->Radiant Magelight (you Empower both Arrows that way, since first lands after first Radiant & second lands after the second).
Yet people barely get any kills with this, even with 100% optimal bow build - it's simply too slow & gives opponent too much time to react.
So yeah, the chances of dying to that should be 0% (ok, 1%* in case your game crashes or PC explodes or something), especially once you know there's a Lethal Arrow spammer around.
Remember, they can't both cloak & spam Lethal Arrow at the same time. First they need to wait for the Lethal Arrow to land before they can cloak again, second they need to actually have magicka to use cloak (2-3 consecutive cloaks=rip magicka on stamblade). They're also slowed down while they channel Lethal Arrow.
The thing with Lethal Arrow morph is also that it gets you stuck in combat very often with the DoT portion if it fails to kill target (preventing cloak->sneak). Focused Aim doesn't have this issue.
For your information Radiant mage light and cloak are instant. Only thing is you have to cancel animation. Only lethal arrow has 1 seond cool down. You dont have to waste 4 seconds. 2 seconds is sufficient and well within cloak duration. Once you know lethal arrow spammer around , you will go stealth immediately. For that point you have no chance to die. Going stealth in entire cyrodil is not an option.
Every skill cast (the moment you press the button) triggers a 1s global cooldown before you can use another skill, this is what prevents someone from just mashing a button on their keyboard and casting 6 skills in one second.
What animation canceling does is that you clip the animations of a skill (which can be longer than the 1s global cooldown) with light (or heavy) attack, which have their own 0,8s cooldown separate from the GCD (Global Cooldown).
So yeah, you do have to spend atleast 4 seconds if you want to cast 4 skills, there's no way to circumvent it.
The "beauty" of cast time abilities is that you spend that 1s GCD in the cast animation, which allows you to land multiple attacks at the same time (e.g. the "Asylum Snipe" combo: https://youtu.be/ssKsNe7wV7o).
You should be happy most people choose to just spam Lethal Arrow instead and don't take full advantage of snipe
As far I know , We can spam 2 -3 lethal arrows within cloak duration. No need for 4 seconds unless reflexes are very slow. Cloak itself gurantees critical hit. We dont require mage light or inner light . Either , I am not explaining it correctly, how it is overused or overpowered . Cloak with animation cancel is almost instant combined with lethal arrow. Lethal arrow critical hits around 10k- 15K depends on build per hit. Also it makes NB hidden , almost no clue where the hit coming from. I am giving an overpowered situation , which has no counter. You can charge a person 35M away.
Two, yes -sort of. Not 3 because casting cloak also triggers the 1s global cooldown & you've got only 2s left of cloak afterwards. With 1.1s cast time you can cast one Lethal Arrow & almost finish casting second before cloak wears off.
It's the same as casting it from sneak basically, and not very effective given that Lethal Arrows land 1s apart.
If you dodge roll after the first one is cast & the second is still casting, you'll typically dodge both arrows - very easy to deal with, which is why one doesn't play Lethal Arrow spam build if they want to play bow competitively. If you think I'm wrong, link me one video of a Lethal Arrow spammer doing 1vX PvP. Or better yet, duels.
Yes, of course you can dodge roll immediately after first snipe, if you have time . Or you can go in stealth immediately. Problem here is snipe doesn't hit immediately . Its a projectile. Caster will snipped the second one , even before the first one landed on you.
Yeah, unfortunately there are still some bugs with projectiles.
I recorded this a while ago:https://youtu.be/IOn-Nyf2APE
Basically all it takes is dodging during the cast time of a projectile to dodge it.
That's why I wrote that you can usually dodge both Lethal Arrows if you dodge after the first one is in the air (and second one is still being cast).
Another reason why Lethal Arrow spam builds are... less than optimal.
A non ultimate skill , which is spammable should not hit more 5k , which has more than 35 M range and in stealth and also debuff target. NB can make it guaranteed crit 10-15k per hit is far more than an ultimate. I would go with fixing snipes or NB Guaranteed critical chance for ranged ablities > 20M . Of course you could argue its not an night blade issue. I agreed that you can dodge roll immediately , if you have time if you are lucky. Normally you wont get any time, if lag factored in.
Well, it does usually hit for around 5k from most players in their Hundings Rages and whatnot. My melee stamblade's Surprise Attack (instant cast, harder to dodge, applies Major Fracture, stuns if done from cloak) hits harder than that.
A properly built archer however can crit around 10k'ish on average with normal snipes & 15k with Asylum Snipes. This is on target with 7 impen & optimal CP allocation.
If you're getting hit by 15k regular snipes, you've got work to do (I would crit you for 20k+ with Asylum Snipe).
Check impen, check mitigation, put more points into Hardy/Ironclad if necessary.
In the end, most of the regular bow builds are far less dangerous than overload gank builds for instance (which hit way harder), or Dark Flare->Jav->Jbeam gankplars (which have a killer follow up after their burst combo).Priyasekarssk wrote: »Why would an normal ranged spammable ablity > 35 M range hit like a ultimate with a debuff with 2 in a row that too , you wont even know who the attacker is ? If you think this is balanced , PVP not going to survive. Soon PVP will be full of stam night-blades cloaking around and play hide and seek with bows and 2H, which includes mine. Its a matter of time.
Several reasons, one being the fact that it has a cast time, is dodgeable and has a long travel time. Also, it doesn't actually hit harder than ultimates like Incap, DBOS, Meteor etc (I can post tooltips if you want). Not without Asylum Bow that is.
I think you're overstating the potency of these builds, you should try playing one before judging. I've never seen a Lethal Arrow spammer do well in 1v1 or 1vX, the only time they get kills is when they've got a whole zerg carrying them.
Again you are not refut
What does cloak have to do with heals? This itself shows your level in game. Sorry I dont want to waste time. Either NB nerf or PVP full of NBs destroying PVP once for all. When entire community is telling NB is overpowered, why are you even wasting time with invalid points. NB will be nerfed for sure.StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Have you watched videos of magblades using destro ult to pull 20+ kills on a zerg? It's all over youtube. The power of a bomb build relies on vicious death proc. When you have 2 powerful aoes and a set that does 15k aoe dmg whenever someone dies, it's going to kill people. Nbs are better at the using the build because they can cloak. That's it. I can pull off the same feat on my magsorc if I wanted to.
"It cannot be countered"? Where are your proofs for that? Literally the easiest way to counter that playstyle is to leave the area... They're not gonna chase you, because they'll risk revealing their position. Lethal arrow needs a fix, but that has nothing to do with Nbs. Other classes can become a ganker. Have you seen a stamplar running a sniping build? Heavy bow attack, potl, snipe, javelin can reduce people's hp from 100 to 0 in a matter of seconds. What is the point of slotting cloak then if you want it to be unusable for 3 seconds after using a skill? Most gankers stay in sneak anyway, so it's literally useless to even slot cloak if you wanted that change to happen.
Your argument makes no sense. What does cloak have to do with heals? Stamblades only have 2 heals and no passives that buff healing. All other classes either have passives that buff healing, or an extra healing skill. For instance, stamplars have minor mending. Stamdks have major mending, green dragon blood. Stamsorcs have darkdeal and crit surge. Stamwardens are a healing powerhouse with soothing spores, leeching vines, major mending, etc. What about stamblades? They have vigor and rally, which can be used by any classes. They have siphoning attacks, which only heals for 750hp per light attack. Most stamblades don't even run that skill.
"Other classes lack critical heal"...??? Please point out to me where you got this info from, because it's absolutely ridiculous. Crit heal isnt tied to Nbs. Any class can crit heal if they have enough crit %. If you crit heal with major mending buff, you'll heal for a crap ton more. Nbs don't have any buffs, so why do you want to take that away from them when it's their only way to compete with other classes in survivability? You take that away, and they are forced to stay in stealth. Then you'll complain about cloak.
"This itself shows your level in game."? What does it say about my level in game? This isn't to brag or anything, but since you brought it up I have to say it. I'm obviously not the best player, but I'm among the elites on NA PC. I'm also in one of the best small scale guilds on NA PC. If you play on NA PC, then chances are you've either run into me and got 1vXed, or died to my guild when we small scale in cyrodill. I main a Nb and stamsorc, and have posted videos of me fighting outnumbered. I backed my points up with facts and video proofs. You though, can only talk. Your argument is filled with exaggeration and misinformation. I don't care if the community is telling Nb is overpowered. Most people that whine about the class on the forums are either zerglings or not good at PvPing. I've argued with many forumers, but only to find out they are eso zerglings when I actually face them in cyrodill. They whine about the wrong things that don't need adjustment, and ignore the things that do. If you think Nbs are so OP, please do everyone a favor and make a 1vX video. If you can't do it, then there is nothing else we can talk about because it just shows how wrong you are.Edited by StaticWave on March 31, 2018 1:19AM0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RceEaKueT-Pk2-4SNpSYq--N4jr1WX61
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UvQAmQwufpTdaNoXacYLSId5fqZbG_8s
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WHFxqenfsPTqeQC31KfXESFbrRARaweu
@Priyasekarssk In case you forgot, I uploaded 3 videos. Please show us 1 video of you playing a stamblade so we can see how OP Nbs are.
0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Couple of things:- Spamming Lethal Arrow has to be one of the least effective ways of PvP'ing. I don't know how it's even possible to die to Lethal Arrow spam (Asylum combo is a whole another matter).
- Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history.
- Cloak doesn't give you crit heals, not if there's even one DoT on target (such as the Poisoned status effect from those Lethal Arrows). If there's a DoT on target, crit morph of cloak does nothing. Bug documented here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged
Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers, allow me to offer a foolproof way of gathering free AP points:- Dodge Lethal Arrow (or break CC caused by that 5-6k Lethal Arrow from the typical Hundings Rage pro sniper).
- Pay attention & move towards the NB, he'll be spamming those Lethal Arrows because pugs are predictable.
- When in range, use gap closer.
- CC/Ulti.
- Gather AP.
You're welcome.Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Couple of things:- Spamming Lethal Arrow has to be one of the least effective ways of PvP'ing. I don't know how it's even possible to die to Lethal Arrow spam (Asylum combo is a whole another matter).
- Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history.
- Cloak doesn't give you crit heals, not if there's even one DoT on target (such as the Poisoned status effect from those Lethal Arrows). If there's a DoT on target, crit morph of cloak does nothing. Bug documented here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged
Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers, allow me to offer a foolproof way of gathering free AP points:- Dodge Lethal Arrow (or break CC caused by that 5-6k Lethal Arrow from the typical Hundings Rage pro sniper).
- Pay attention & move towards the NB, he'll be spamming those Lethal Arrows because pugs are predictable.
- When in range, use gap closer.
- CC/Ulti.
- Gather AP.
You're welcome.
"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Oh yes. Entire community is struggling except heavy armor builds.0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Have you watched videos of magblades using destro ult to pull 20+ kills on a zerg? It's all over youtube. The power of a bomb build relies on vicious death proc. When you have 2 powerful aoes and a set that does 15k aoe dmg whenever someone dies, it's going to kill people. Nbs are better at the using the build because they can cloak. That's it. I can pull off the same feat on my magsorc if I wanted to.
"It cannot be countered"? Where are your proofs for that? Literally the easiest way to counter that playstyle is to leave the area... They're not gonna chase you, because they'll risk revealing their position. Lethal arrow needs a fix, but that has nothing to do with Nbs. Other classes can become a ganker. Have you seen a stamplar running a sniping build? Heavy bow attack, potl, snipe, javelin can reduce people's hp from 100 to 0 in a matter of seconds. What is the point of slotting cloak then if you want it to be unusable for 3 seconds after using a skill? Most gankers stay in sneak anyway, so it's literally useless to even slot cloak if you wanted that change to happen.
Your argument makes no sense. What does cloak have to do with heals? Stamblades only have 2 heals and no passives that buff healing. All other classes either have passives that buff healing, or an extra healing skill. For instance, stamplars have minor mending. Stamdks have major mending, green dragon blood. Stamsorcs have darkdeal and crit surge. Stamwardens are a healing powerhouse with soothing spores, leeching vines, major mending, etc. What about stamblades? They have vigor and rally, which can be used by any classes. They have siphoning attacks, which only heals for 750hp per light attack. Most stamblades don't even run that skill.
"Other classes lack critical heal"...??? Please point out to me where you got this info from, because it's absolutely ridiculous. Crit heal isnt tied to Nbs. Any class can crit heal if they have enough crit %. If you crit heal with major mending buff, you'll heal for a crap ton more. Nbs don't have any buffs, so why do you want to take that away from them when it's their only way to compete with other classes in survivability? You take that away, and they are forced to stay in stealth. Then you'll complain about cloak.
Oh yeah. I watched youtube videos and commenting here. hehe. I know many instances how 3 NBs destroy an entire raid in PVP and know how are abusing the god class. NB will be nerfed for sure. No matter how hard NBs cry.Edited by Priyasekarssk on April 2, 2018 7:48PM0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Couple of things:- Spamming Lethal Arrow has to be one of the least effective ways of PvP'ing. I don't know how it's even possible to die to Lethal Arrow spam (Asylum combo is a whole another matter).
- Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history.
- Cloak doesn't give you crit heals, not if there's even one DoT on target (such as the Poisoned status effect from those Lethal Arrows). If there's a DoT on target, crit morph of cloak does nothing. Bug documented here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged
Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers, allow me to offer a foolproof way of gathering free AP points:- Dodge Lethal Arrow (or break CC caused by that 5-6k Lethal Arrow from the typical Hundings Rage pro sniper).
- Pay attention & move towards the NB, he'll be spamming those Lethal Arrows because pugs are predictable.
- When in range, use gap closer.
- CC/Ulti.
- Gather AP.
You're welcome.Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Couple of things:- Spamming Lethal Arrow has to be one of the least effective ways of PvP'ing. I don't know how it's even possible to die to Lethal Arrow spam (Asylum combo is a whole another matter).
- Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history.
- Cloak doesn't give you crit heals, not if there's even one DoT on target (such as the Poisoned status effect from those Lethal Arrows). If there's a DoT on target, crit morph of cloak does nothing. Bug documented here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged
Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers, allow me to offer a foolproof way of gathering free AP points:- Dodge Lethal Arrow (or break CC caused by that 5-6k Lethal Arrow from the typical Hundings Rage pro sniper).
- Pay attention & move towards the NB, he'll be spamming those Lethal Arrows because pugs are predictable.
- When in range, use gap closer.
- CC/Ulti.
- Gather AP.
You're welcome.
"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Oh yes. Entire community is struggling except heavy armor builds.
No matter who you think you are you don't speak for the whole community.2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Couple of things:- Spamming Lethal Arrow has to be one of the least effective ways of PvP'ing. I don't know how it's even possible to die to Lethal Arrow spam (Asylum combo is a whole another matter).
- Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history.
- Cloak doesn't give you crit heals, not if there's even one DoT on target (such as the Poisoned status effect from those Lethal Arrows). If there's a DoT on target, crit morph of cloak does nothing. Bug documented here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged
Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers, allow me to offer a foolproof way of gathering free AP points:- Dodge Lethal Arrow (or break CC caused by that 5-6k Lethal Arrow from the typical Hundings Rage pro sniper).
- Pay attention & move towards the NB, he'll be spamming those Lethal Arrows because pugs are predictable.
- When in range, use gap closer.
- CC/Ulti.
- Gather AP.
You're welcome.Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Couple of things:- Spamming Lethal Arrow has to be one of the least effective ways of PvP'ing. I don't know how it's even possible to die to Lethal Arrow spam (Asylum combo is a whole another matter).
- Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history.
- Cloak doesn't give you crit heals, not if there's even one DoT on target (such as the Poisoned status effect from those Lethal Arrows). If there's a DoT on target, crit morph of cloak does nothing. Bug documented here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged
Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers, allow me to offer a foolproof way of gathering free AP points:- Dodge Lethal Arrow (or break CC caused by that 5-6k Lethal Arrow from the typical Hundings Rage pro sniper).
- Pay attention & move towards the NB, he'll be spamming those Lethal Arrows because pugs are predictable.
- When in range, use gap closer.
- CC/Ulti.
- Gather AP.
You're welcome.
"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Oh yes. Entire community is struggling except heavy armor builds.
No matter who you think you are you don't speak for the whole community.
Doesn't matter the nerfs are coming. We have lots of bad Players crying for nerfs but more importantly the best NBs agree that the class is too strong currently. ZoS always nerfed the FotM after one or two patches.
He might be completely ignorant and exaggerating but he's right0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Couple of things:- Spamming Lethal Arrow has to be one of the least effective ways of PvP'ing. I don't know how it's even possible to die to Lethal Arrow spam (Asylum combo is a whole another matter).
- Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history.
- Cloak doesn't give you crit heals, not if there's even one DoT on target (such as the Poisoned status effect from those Lethal Arrows). If there's a DoT on target, crit morph of cloak does nothing. Bug documented here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged
Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers, allow me to offer a foolproof way of gathering free AP points:- Dodge Lethal Arrow (or break CC caused by that 5-6k Lethal Arrow from the typical Hundings Rage pro sniper).
- Pay attention & move towards the NB, he'll be spamming those Lethal Arrows because pugs are predictable.
- When in range, use gap closer.
- CC/Ulti.
- Gather AP.
You're welcome.Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
LOL. My mainStaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.StaticWave wrote: »@Priyasekarssk You sound like a true NB hater. At this point words mean nothing to you so I'm going to ask for a video of you playing NB. Show everyone how overpowered NBs are. I will wait for that 1vX video.
TMW: One angry Sorc discovers that his build is bad and that his class isn’t completely underpowered.
That is the problem of balance discussions on the forums. You have people with no skill, bad knowledge, bias and bad builds who try to defend things they can't even grasp.
That's precisely why I don't take many forumers seriously. All I've seen from these nerf threads are either extreme hyperbole, or just straight up misinformation. I've backed up my argument with facts and videos, but some people still choose to ignore them and stay biased. If a lot of them play on NA PC, chances are I've run into them in cyrodill, whether solo or with a group. It's a shame skilled players that I frequently see in cyrodill don't really go on the forums too often. Their 2-cents weigh a lot more than those of people who act knowledgeable on the forums, but don't have the skills or actual knowledge to back it up.
LOL. NB is overpowered a lot to other classes . Lethal arrow with cloak almost overused in every PVP battles . USe detect pots for NB 35 meters away , without knowing his location. Sorc is not my main, even magicka builds. You completely misinformed. I going to have NB main. You did prove or refute the points except double CC. First prove then speak blah blah . You are very knowledgeable about the game. Come and defeat my argument or just play the tutorials . I am not going to disagree if point is proved. If entire player community including manys pros of the game look the other way, you should provide convincing point to player community. How noobs will argue you know ? By calling all others noob .
Refuse these points : -
1. Critical heal following cloak is not acceptable. Resets fight in 1 second. Aleady many made youtube videos and made a laughing stock.
2. Bomb build is not acceptable. 3 average nightablades destory entire group for 30-50 in 2 seconds. Very good balance. No one can run detection pods with shields all the time.
3. Cloak immediately after lethal arrow is not acceptable. Lethal arrow needs fixes that another topic. Rest is upto specific instances. Ranged attacks greater than 15 M should reveal NB location for 3 seconds. Spamming lethal arrows combined with cloak is not acceptable. Spam lethal arrows with cloak ,
@Minalan just told magicka builds how magicka builds escape from double CCs. That too its very secret build . He just PM. Again he didnt refute other points in convincing way to make NB overpowered .
Nbs are overpowered? Not in the least. Your example with lethal arrow and cloak cannot be used to judge the entire class, since you're specifically talking about the gank playstyle. Many classes outperform Nbs in other builds.
1/ Crit heals in cloak is the only reason Nbs can compete with other stam classes like stamdks, stamwardens, stamsorcs, and stamplars. While cloak can often reset the fight, it is in fact very unreliable if your opponents know how to counter it. Stamsorcs who use hurricane and streak will not let you stay in cloak. Stamdks will use noxious breath and volatile armor to constantly pull you out of stealth. Stamplars will constantly snare you with their passive, then pull you out of cloak with their biting jabs. Stamwardens can sub assault and just face the direction where they think you are. If you are pulled out of cloak, your heals will not crit. If you take away crit heals, then you are forcing Nbs to cloak more, which is what people complain about. They lack the heals that other classes have.
2/ Again, you are talking about a specific playstyle. You can't make a blanket judgement about the class based on a specific build. The main damage skills magblades run to bomb groups are powerful aoes like destro ult, and proxy det. You can pull off the same feat on another magicka class if you run an invisible potion. Nbs just do it better since they have a built in invisibility skill. Moreover, that specific playstyle requires good judgement. Not many people can pull it off, and it certainly does not perform well in other scenarios.
3/ Again, you're talking about a specific playstyle that does not make the entire class overpowered. Sniping builds use cloak as their main defense. I don't need to refute this point because it does not make sense to judge an entire class based on your bad taste with one playstyle.
For your information. Destro ultimate cannot make bomb build even proximity detonation. Players have enough time to escape and pull their shields up and kill you in no time. Only NB can do it with their ultimate which combines with CC. Kill entire group in 2 seconds. No other classes can do it in any way. With destro ultimate cannot CC . You will get killed in no time.
Lethal arrow spam by NB is different from other classes. When NB uses lethal arrow combines with cloak not revealing location, it cannot be countered , when player is 35 meters away. Lethal arrow itself needs fixes increasing channel time or just cannot be spammed or exploited. Either they have to reveal location of player using lethal arrow and cannot cloak for 3 or 2 seconds.
NB lacks the heal other classes have. Its not all classes . Other classes lacks the cloak that NB have. Other classes lack critical heal. Cloak is not the problem here. Critical heal is the problem. Why should NB have critical heal with cloak when other classes can only ordinary heal without cloak ?
Couple of things:- Spamming Lethal Arrow has to be one of the least effective ways of PvP'ing. I don't know how it's even possible to die to Lethal Arrow spam (Asylum combo is a whole another matter).
- Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history.
- Cloak doesn't give you crit heals, not if there's even one DoT on target (such as the Poisoned status effect from those Lethal Arrows). If there's a DoT on target, crit morph of cloak does nothing. Bug documented here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged
Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers, allow me to offer a foolproof way of gathering free AP points:- Dodge Lethal Arrow (or break CC caused by that 5-6k Lethal Arrow from the typical Hundings Rage pro sniper).
- Pay attention & move towards the NB, he'll be spamming those Lethal Arrows because pugs are predictable.
- When in range, use gap closer.
- CC/Ulti.
- Gather AP.
You're welcome.
"Since you clearly seem to be struggling with the zerg surfing Lethal Arrow spammers."
'Cloaking immediately after Lethal Arrow results in your cloak breaking around one second later as the Lethal Arrow lands. Possibly the worst use of cloak in history." All you need 2 lethal arrows combined with poison injection with 2 cloaks. Probably its best or worst use. Main problem is locating the enemy. You can run and hide immediately in stealth after CC break. Sometimes you might run into same direction of spammer. 35 M? No gap closer can do that. Either lethal arrow has to be fixed .
Oh yes. Entire community is struggling except heavy armor builds.
No matter who you think you are you don't speak for the whole community.
Doesn't matter the nerfs are coming. We have lots of bad Players crying for nerfs but more importantly the best NBs agree that the class is too strong currently. ZoS always nerfed the FotM after one or two patches.
He might be completely ignorant and exaggerating but he's right
I already given the scenarios NBs were unchecked. They are not countering my argument. They are just bluffing something and wasting everyone time.0