Would a Mag NB DPS/Off Tank(Ice Staff) be viable?

Sparr0w · March 2018

Wondering if the below build would be viable for overland & at a stretch vet dungeons - the idea came after reading about sap tanks & I was bored so decided to throw a quick build together.

If it is viable for vet what would I have to change to retain around 15-20k but still be able to tank boses when needed?

Thanks in advance for the help or telling me if I'm being an idiot

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=53401

Text:

Character

High Elf - All points in Mag
Nightblade
The Lady Mundus
Vampire

Item/armour

5LA/1MA/1HA
2x Valkyn
4x Ebon (Fire front/Frost back)
5x Julianos
-
All Mag Enchants
4x Sturdy
3x Divines
2x Spell Damage
1x Mag Regen

Sure there's better sets but I don't play tank or mag dps often enough to know them

Skills

Impale | Swallow Soul | Elemental Blockade | Merciless Resolve | Inner Light || Soul Harvest
Sap Essence | Refreshing Path | Reapers Mark | Mirage | Inner Light || Aggressive Horn

Maybe swap Inner Light for Harness Magicka & Siphoning Attacks? Reapers mark probably won't be needed so flex spot?

CP (300)

Red
The Lord - 11 Expert Defender
The Lady - 12 LA Focus - 7 Thick Skinned - 27 Hardy - 27 Elemental Defender
The Steed - 16 Ironclad

Blue
The Ritual - 16 Thaumaturge
The Atronach - 20 MAA - 9 Staff Expert
The Apprentice - 32 Elemental Expert - 23 Elfborn

Green
The Shadow - 13 Shadow Ward
The Lover - 49 Arcanist - 37 Tenacity

Stats/Regen Unbuffed

Spell Crit: 55.6%
Spell DMG: 1954

Base Magicka: 31700
Magicka Regen: 1120
Base Health: 19504
Health Regen: 213
Base Stamina: 10121
Stamina Regen: 663

Physical Res: 14403
Spell Res: 15027
Spell Pen: 7736

josiahva · March 2018

Ebon is garbage for a magicka based tank. You want Rattlecage 5 piece. On my magicka DK Tank/DPS hybrid(able to tank all vet dungeons, including DLC while putting out 20kDPS) I use 5 piece rattlecage, 5 piece(on S&B bar, 4 piece on destro staff bar) Bloodthorn, 2 piece Illambris. Front bar is a lightning staff, back bar is S&B, everything is Infused with hakeijo enchants, spell damage jewelry enchants. I end up at 35k Magicka, 18k Stamina, and 24k Health with everything gold. You use S&B as your main taunt/defense bar and destro staff as your main offensive bar. Regen is really low...but sustain is still workable with a DK because of off-balance + whip+ bloodthorn, might be a bit worse with a nightblade, but not too bad.

That being said...this build is tricky to play, especially in vet DLC dungeons because it takes much more skill to stay alive than a meat tank...and since the changes to armor skill lines I no longer have access to harness magicka I am stuck using the far inferior bone shield instead(supplemented with igneous)...however it is nice to be able to put out respectable DPS while tanking...if you are up for the challenge of staying alive with a low-health tank...forget the ice staff though if you are wanting to put out good DPS...stick with Fire or Lightning, get your taunts from inner fire and S&B

Sparr0w · March 2018

@josiahva Thanks for the set suggestions, I'll have a look at them - reason for picking Ebon is I already have a full set through random dungeons

plus a sap tank is mainly about healing quicker than it can be damaged.

Is S&B that much better than an Ice staff? Assumed it was just because of the instant taunt over a HA taunt & seperate pools...

The difficult to run should be fine as I currently tank on a StamBlade using 2H/Bow, can clear all 1 dungeons on Vet (e.g. Fungal Grotto 1).

srfrogg23 · March 2018

On the plus side, just about anything is viable for open-world content. Can’t think of too many vet dungeons where an off-tank would have been necessary though...

Trials on the other hand, if your main role is to be the off-tank, it might not be a bad idea to be able to add in some extra dps.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Why would you use rattlecage on any character that already has easy access to major sorcery? I wouldn't follow that advice.

mb10 · March 2018

Id wait for patch notes for next chapter.

Im hopeful they change ice staff for the better

Sparr0w · March 2018

@mb10 Whats currently the issue with it? From what I can see its just the lack of a taunt skill, using mag pool & not being able to have an extra slot? Unless theres something I'm missing?

josiahva · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why would you use rattlecage on any character that already has easy access to major sorcery? I wouldn't follow that advice.

All about the spell damage buffs, the 5 piece isn't that important(use it for the 4 piece). I myself like the 5-piece so I can free up a skill slot and not have to worry about keeping that buff up 100% of the time. There aren't many options for a magicka based tank that wears heavy armor...and light armor is likely to get you killed in places like vBF. Come to think of it though Medusa would make a good alternative if you don't need the extra skill slot, or don't mind keeping that buff up:

(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Gain Minor Force at all times, increasing your Critical Damage by 10%.

This would also make it so you dont have to bother with re-arming trap, so in reality it does become better than Rattlecage...now I am going to have to farm it...thanks, that point helps me improve my build.(though in reality I will likely just do 5 Medusa/ 5 Rattle/ 2 Illambris(4 Rattle on destro bar)

Sparr0w wrote: »

@josiahva Thanks for the set suggestions, I'll have a look at them - reason for picking Ebon is I already have a full set through random dungeons plus a sap tank is mainly about healing quicker than it can be damaged.

Is S&B that much better than an Ice staff? Assumed it was just because of the instant taunt over a HA taunt & seperate pools...

The difficult to run should be fine as I currently tank on a StamBlade using 2H/Bow, can clear all 1 dungeons on Vet (e.g. Fungal Grotto 1).

I love the ice staff as a back bar option on my meat tank...but as far as DPS goes...the other staves are better choices...so a tank that is focused on helping with DPS should run a lightning or flame staff. A tank that is focused more on CC, an ice staff works better....you can always swap these out as needed, depending on the dungeon and trash mobs you are dealing with. What you are really looking for though is 18k stamina...this will give you enough stamina to tank dungeons with(assuming you dont perma-block and believe in heavy attacks), while letting you use your magicka pool to DPS

Psyonico · March 2018

Tank without taunt makes me cry.

I've got a NB tank that main hands an ice staff, the only problem that I have is no access to a strong self heal, but it works well otherwise.

mb10 · March 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

@mb10 Whats currently the issue with it? From what I can see its just the lack of a taunt skill, using mag pool & not being able to have an extra slot? Unless theres something I'm missing?

@Sparr0w

Its just the worst dps option of all the destro staffs and is far far behind sword and board so its in the middle which is cool its unique, but it doesnt excel.

ZOS need to make it useful in its own right but yeah atm its just sitting in the middle and theres a reason you never really see anyone using it. Simply not optimal in any scenario.

josiahva · March 2018

mb10 wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

@mb10 Whats currently the issue with it? From what I can see its just the lack of a taunt skill, using mag pool & not being able to have an extra slot? Unless theres something I'm missing?

@Sparr0w

Its just the worst dps option of all the destro staffs and is far far behind sword and board so its in the middle which is cool its unique, but it doesnt excel.

ZOS need to make it useful in its own right but yeah atm its just sitting in the middle and theres a reason you never really see anyone using it. Simply not optimal in any scenario.

This isn't true. I use it back bar on my main tank. It is absolutely wonderful and shines in certain fights...however my main tank does no DPS to speak of, I wouldn't ever choose it as a DPS weapon...but as an expansion to my tanking toolkit it excels...double bar S&B is gimping yourself as a tank

Psyonico wrote: »

Tank without taunt makes me cry.

I've got a NB tank that main hands an ice staff, the only problem that I have is no access to a strong self heal, but it works well otherwise.

Just because you have a magicka based tank doesnt mean you cant use the S&B taunt...if fact, if you have a tank and DONT use the S&B taunt...you are gimping yourself...the debuffs are the best.

Sparr0w · March 2018

@josiahva I was planning on front bar inferno/lightning staff & back bar ice staff rather than S&B as nightblade has easy access to buffs/debuffs without S&B

josiahva · March 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

@josiahva I was planning on front bar inferno/lightning staff & back bar ice staff rather than S&B as nightblade has easy access to buffs/debuffs without S&B

A nightblade has access to major breach and major fracture in one skill for a resource cost of 2000 per enemy? If not, its not beating Pierce Armor. You are better having a destro staff of your choice on one bar and using class DoTs and AoEs on the S&B bar. Don't forget, S&B also gives you access to low slash for ultimate generation and the ONLY projectile-reflect option a nightblade has...which is very useful for fights like Chudan or the last boss of Fang Lair. Without S&B you give up a LOT of utility you need to effectively tank...your taunts wont apply major breach or major fracture, you will regenerate ultimate slower...and you will have no way to restore stamina on demand(you still need to sprint and roll dodge from time to time) blocking with the ice-staff will eat through your magicka pool much faster too. This is why S&B and ice staff should be used in conjunction for the best tanking toolbox(though 90% of the time you wont need an ice staff and can substitute one of the other destro staves for it instead)

P.S. I built a magicka warden tank that didnt use S&B...it was pretty miserable in ANY dungeon that you got feared...I could heal all day long while tanking( I was using Seducer and Alteration Mastery, Ice staff front bar, resto staff back bar...the heal spamming was unbelievable)...but get feared and you die quick...break free requires stamina. So I had fairly easy time with some vet dungeons...but Elden Hollow was a wipe fest.

Tonturri · March 2018

Your build link is a little wonky looking (I assume you've edited it since)

Here is what I'm currently aiming to use. Alas, maelstrom weapons are a bit of a pain for me rightn ow due to college, but they look amazing.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=53610

Unfortunately, s/b is pretty necessary. You lose too much if you give it up, especially if you have maelstrom weapons (just lookit that 2 piece bonus, omg).

I don't have all the armor in the link yet so currently my weapons are throwaway slots, but I've had no issues so far in vet dlcs. Also, I think Argonian > Altmer due to healing. Funnel is very nice and your healer will thank you for it, same for refreshing. In addition, Argonian regen is on potion use, so you can get it whenever you like and it won't be negated if you block on your frost staff bar. The extra health is also a godsend.

Also consider the dmg morph of the siphoning ult for your s/b bar - I switch it in and out with Veil depending on the fight (siphon for trash usually, veil for boss). The DoT + heal and up front aoe damage is fantastic. I've gotten up to 100k aoe burst dps (fell to around 70k by the time the mobs died).

EyelessCZ · February 2019

My main is Magblade tank, doubleIcestaff argonian. I have several options how to run dungs. Some of them are vanilla, even DLS´s but others are tough, specialy if rest of the group cant catch up.

If easy, than Hatchling´s Shell with Resillient yokeda or Thunderbug Mephala´s Hand, Rattlecage, in fact with everything, what gives you secondary damage by fifth effect of set.

If hard, then Plague doctor with Hatchling´s Shell It gives you 51k health and 18k magicka.

And its pretty immortal. All you need is corespondive boss set to raise your ressistances, so best is Mighty chudan and you will get 31K each.

Taunt with heavy attack and inner fire, you can heal group while doing tank bussiness, lower resses to mobs, buff your group.

I think double Ice staff is most versatile way how to play as tank.

P.s.: I combined Widowmaker set with Velidreth and Mephala´s Hand. And I can solo world bosses or normal groupdungs quickly because this way my tank has also 20k DPS. Only flaw is, I have to heal more.

Nemesis7884 · February 2019

you might also want to look into bahraha's curse and withered hand.... i used those to magicka tank on my nightblade worked quite decently.... id probably still use 1 sword/shield for the pierce armor....if you get it otherwise for example warden iin group you could uce ice/lightning the second to do some damage as well as apply vulnerability