https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0reT1dBS5Ao

Checkmath wrote: »

@Troneon
Yeah we all know about that „house“....

Zos just need to make their minds up.

Make Templar great at healing with ability to still do semi decent dps for group content or make it great at tanking and buffing allies / debuffing enemies / cc hybrid. Either would work well.

If they want Templar to be a "House" then make it one and stfu already.

In role with "Templar" they have many ways to take it but no one ever thought Templar was ever going to be leading the dps department. so...

Templar = Tank/Buffer/Debuffer/CC or...
Templar = Healer / Buffer / Support DPS....

I would not have a problem with Templar being weaker in solo situations but shines more than any other class in group situations when it comes to buffing / healing and supporting groups....weakness would be lower dps and very vulnerable in solo situations...

Simples...

One issue I see (which is not necessarily Templar specific, but just glaringly stands out there) is that the environment has changed so drastically that original design choices may no longer be valid. If you just take PvP, you have controlled environments (BGs and 1v1) and open world Cyrodiil, and of course CP and noCP to consider. You have solo/smallscale and group play.

The "stand-your-ground" archetype has had it more and more difficult because "stand your ground" mostly means withering away in a slow and painful drawn out death, at least in an open world scenario. The environment in open world PvP has shifted to a gameplay where mobility is the key to surviving because there are so many snares and CCs, and once you can be nailed to a spot it's easy to focus fire and secure the kill. The "stand-your-ground" archetype is at a natural disadvantage here because it isn't meant to be mobile.

In order to make open world more bearable you'd have to strengthen the "stand your ground" tools considerably, and this would probably break the controlled environments like BGs. I don't really see a good way to solve this without abandoning the archetype completely, and I'm curious what the representatives and ZOS will come up with.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Eventually I think a thread like this will be needed.

No matter who ZoS chooses as rep (and this goes for all the classes), it's going to be really difficult for them to encompass all the aspects of game-play. Templars heal, they DPS, they PvE, they are primarily group support in PvP, they (try) and solo PvP, and then there are "stamplars", which play quite differently. That's quite the cross section. And even in areas where reps may have solid expertise, they still should seek out the perspectives of others because there is always more than one way to skin a daedra (the thought of skinning cats makes me ill, probably because I have a pet kitty ).

It might be worthwhile to wait until Gina and ZoS give us more information about the rep program. At least in the main thread, I think some people are overestimating exactly what role the reps will have. It seems to me they are more a vehicle for communication of things that are frustrating rather than a source of balance suggestions. So perhaps will have a more focused discussion with what ZoS is looking for.

I agree with this. Up until the last few months I had gone silent on the forums in part because I was growing tired of giving feedback. The hundred+ page thread really wore me out particularly when it felt like nothing was listened to and in the following months we kept getting more problems. I'm hopeful they can sort out some of what makes Templar wrong and I agree with other people that Warden is what Templar use to be or dreamed to be. It is important whoever the representatives are that they can take the perspectives of all the class flavors in mind. I deem this true of the other classes as well.

Troneon wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0reT1dBS5Ao

Nice editing - whoever did that.

I'll just state the pain points for me:

1) The class is clunky which makes it less of a joy to play. Many of the skills are glitchy as hell and horrible. Many skills need to be cleaned up and made to look better (Great example is Toppling Charge on all counts). The Achilles clip I've seen players link a few times over the years is what this skill should feel like, either that or it should look awesome like the Templar leap from the sun in Wrothgar.

2) Repentance becoming selfish is the most evil thing the Devs did to the class. I try not to think about it too much because it really is very upsetting they didn't know how awful this would be. It was a brutal thing to do even more so because Templar has the worst recovery of any class in the game... which is at odds with its original design of a tanky/healer low dps build.

3) Templar needs proper cc. There is no class with so little CC and we don't get much for that. Between the clunky design and no cc it just isn't good. I would prefer the class suffered a little in the healing arena to get some CC back and smoother operations. Templar tanks absolutely need proper CC and Binding Javelin is more the realm of a DPS or a Healer. Sadly, while Javelin is cool it is also the only cc the class has. Blinding Flashes would be great even if it is re-envisioned. I personally believe they should take one of the Radiant Destruction morphs and give it back to Flashes (which is what was taken from us). Very specifically on the Tank front for the benefit of all classes, I'd like to see them make Silver Leash a better tool for tanking than it is currently, and I would like to see it functional on Vampire, Werewolf, and plain healthy human like. For goodness sake silver leash is a fighters guild skill why does it need to be so damn magical?

4) Toppling charge should have a stamina morph.

5) Given the long cast speed I'm not so sure Dark Flare should be capable of being dodged. This may not be what is wrong with the skill but it needs more than Defile at any regard. The pbaoe morph needs to ditch the cast time or it will always be relegated to the recycle bin.

6) Something needs to be done about Eclipse. This skill has potential but when 1/3 of all npc's innately resist the skill it loses a lot of its flavor. This skill doesn't work on any of the npc's you would actually want it to work on, so I do hope they reconsider it. I'd like to add that Flappy McFlapwings works just fine whether it is on a boss or a player (Though they have made some openings in the skill... which I'm not particularly comfortable with). At any regard there is for sure some clunk in this skill.

7) They need to seriously determine if they want us to have Major Mending or if we should start getting more double duty to Templar skills. Part of the problem of Templar is that other classes get to combine defense with offense on almost every single one of their skills. Templar tends to just turtle up (Unless you go Stamplar and just don't slot your Templar abilities).

8) Since the class is built around Jabbity jab jab perhaps the skill should not glitch so much. It should not lock up your light and heavy attacks. It should not gray out your ability bar for 3 seconds. This is the one skill that almost every Templar uses because they have to. That doesn't mean it has no problems.

9) Rune Focus and Cleansing Ritual (The Mythical House): Nightblades can run right through your glowing circles and laugh at you. The Power of Light from heaven even won't work to reveal them. Most people laugh at the circle. It was worth it at major mending even for Stamina builds. I'm not so sure its worth anything right now. Rune focus forces you to be on the defensive so often that I find I'm better off using something else out of class. It is nice to know my class passives are garbage here. Cleansing ritual is a bit of a silver lining in removing some debuffs but again it only helps if you're rope-a-dope and you can't spam it.

10) Keep Sun Shield (and morphs) worthwhile.

This is all I can think of right now and I was trying to be succinct. My response here was almost a page so I'm going to hold a bit back before this topic runs away.

My main pain point, is that to be effectively competitive in pve/PvP, Templars MUST actively search outside their kit for what they need in sustain, defense and offense:
- burst supplied by valkyn skoria for magplar and dual weld bleeds soaking into potl for stamplar. Both use Dawnbreaker for ultimate burst
- sustain heavily supplied by lich/ele drain for magplar and stamplar is shafted (I'd like to say bone pirate and drink).
- defense is supplied by shuffle dodge chance, pirate skeleton for major protection, and blocking for both. Harness mag is also one, since blazing shield is too low for the cast. Healing is also NOT a defense. Let's repeat that; healing is not a defense.
- mobilty comes from pots,bow/dual weld, Sprint, and vampire.
- cc is largely countered and expensive. Magplars use cheaper vamp stun or use Dawn breaker stun, stamplars can still use two hander stun but ultimately are worse off than magplar here.
- healing is also gained elsewhere. Magplar has to use lingering pot for a true hot while stamplar obviously has to crutch on vigor+weapon heals+troll king in places. Maybe not an issue as much as the above, but still annoying (BoL shouldn't be spamming because it's clearly intended to be an"opposite execute"; but with no defense/healing alternatives for magplar it's used unintended and nerfed too many times because of that. But that's my opinion.)
- buff timers. Crit+armor buffs are too low to maintain in competitive environments. Inner light > reflective light for the crit buff, Balance used to be amazing when it didn't cost 5100 health to get 23 seconds of armor buffs, and stamina can use heavy armor skill for their armor buffs. But not terrible important for armor since rune is still a good skill; just would help alleviate clunky feeling of Templar if our buffs were reviewed and timers extended to match the skills they are attached to.

Just a few points I had. Some more important than others.

Let no one forget that jabs damage was essentially ninja nerfed

It's clunky af too and that needs a fix, but if they can't fix the red CP scaling issue or w/e then jabs and sweeps both need a damage buff as well