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Vampire and Werewolf are surprisingly balanced in PvP
Datolite
✭✭✭✭✭
Just wanted to put this out there. Most threads about balance tend to be calling for nerfs or buffs, but one thing I've noticed is that there seems to be a fairly good balance between vampire, werewolf and 'mortal' builds (in PvP at least, I know WW isn't very popular in dungeons).
I still see people debating back and forth equally about the pros and cons of being a vampire (it especially seems to be more popular with certain classes). The prevalence of fire and Dawnbreaker in PvP is a huge detriment to vampires, just almost offsetting the benefits of excellent sustain and execute resistance, as well as some killer abilities. As a magplar main who has played both, I can say that there are viable builds that would speak for both sides of that argument. Also - this might sound like no big deal to some - it makes your character fugly. And to others, that is a deal breaker.
Werewolves are a completely different approach to character building. Rather than the status complimenting a build, players have to build around being werewolves. Not only that, they have to change the way they approach PvP completely (the downsides of human form without ults and the limited time for shapeshifting). It's a big commitment, but when it works, it works beautifully. The damage output alone is staggering, and the mobility unparalleled. I have tried a few builds on a couple of characters by now, and the pros and cons are both much more pronounced. Would I make all my stamina characters werewolves? Hell no. I like being able to use ults from time to time. But some days it's tempting.
Most of all, I look at the PvP landscape, both in BGs and Cyrodiil, and I don't see a particular lack or saturation of either one of them. Maybe vampire is more popular, but not nearly as necessary as it used to be. In the end it kind of speaks to a rare balance that you don't see much of in ESO. There may be a billion stamblades invading BGs currently, and stamsorcs being thrown in after them like cats after mice, but I'm just glad I don't see armies of pale templars and werewolves invading. That would just be tacky.
Edited by Datolite on March 27, 2018 7:35PM I still see people debating back and forth equally about the pros and cons of being a vampire (it especially seems to be more popular with certain classes). The prevalence of fire and Dawnbreaker in PvP is a huge detriment to vampires, just almost offsetting the benefits of excellent sustain and execute resistance, as well as some killer abilities. As a magplar main who has played both, I can say that there are viable builds that would speak for both sides of that argument. Also - this might sound like no big deal to some - it makes your character fugly. And to others, that is a deal breaker.
Werewolves are a completely different approach to character building. Rather than the status complimenting a build, players have to build around being werewolves. Not only that, they have to change the way they approach PvP completely (the downsides of human form without ults and the limited time for shapeshifting). It's a big commitment, but when it works, it works beautifully. The damage output alone is staggering, and the mobility unparalleled. I have tried a few builds on a couple of characters by now, and the pros and cons are both much more pronounced. Would I make all my stamina characters werewolves? Hell no. I like being able to use ults from time to time. But some days it's tempting.
Most of all, I look at the PvP landscape, both in BGs and Cyrodiil, and I don't see a particular lack or saturation of either one of them. Maybe vampire is more popular, but not nearly as necessary as it used to be. In the end it kind of speaks to a rare balance that you don't see much of in ESO. There may be a billion stamblades invading BGs currently, and stamsorcs being thrown in after them like cats after mice, but I'm just glad I don't see armies of pale templars and werewolves invading. That would just be tacky.
2
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The Dark Stalker passive is in a weird place as it relates to Nightblades.
It's ridiculous that Nightblade is built to be stealthy but gets penalized for sneak speed unless they either run vampire (for Dark Stalker) or waste a 5 piece bonus. Most players recognize that its dumb to waste a five piece bonus, so they run vampire, which makes for many Nightblade vampires.
I think it's poor planning that a class designed for stealth has to rely so heavily on being a vampire.Edited by GrumpyDuckling on March 27, 2018 7:57PM4 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭You know, I 100% agree with the OP...
When a Werewolf is properly built/played, they are very, very, powerful and dangerous; especially when they are in a pack and run that synergy that they are capable of...
I understand why its not popular as it requires you to completely build around Lycanthropy to get the most out of it, and many people simply don't want to do that, but if you do...you will have an amazingly powerful character.
I know a guy who runs Werewolf off and on, and I remember he was fighting a Magicka Dragonknight.
The fight was pretty even...until my friend activated Werewolf Form...after that he crushed the Dragonknight very rapidly.
It was stunning to watch and really opened my eyes to how powerful Werewolves can be with the right build and the right player at the controls.
The reason he tells me that he doesn't run Werewolf fulltime is because Poison Damage is everywhere in PvP and when people see a Werewolf on the battlefield, it tends to be targeted and focused down...
But other than that, Werewolf can be really strong...Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »You know, I 100% agree with the OP...
When a Werewolf is properly built/played, they are very, very, powerful and dangerous; especially when they are in a pack and run that synergy that they are capable of...
I understand why its not popular as it requires you to completely build around Lycanthropy to get the most out of it, and many people simply don't want to do that, but if you do...you will have an amazingly powerful character.
I know a guy who runs Werewolf off and on, and I remember he was fighting a Magicka Dragonknight.
The fight was pretty even...until my friend activated Werewolf Form...after that he crushed the Dragonknight very rapidly.
It was stunning to watch and really opened my eyes to how powerful Werewolves can be with the right build and the right player at the controls.
The reason he tells me that he doesn't run Werewolf fulltime is because Poison Damage is everywhere in PvP and when people see a Werewolf on the battlefield, it tends to be targeted and focused down...
But other than that, Werewolf can be really strong...
But was he running The MIGHTY CHUDAN?!?1 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »You know, I 100% agree with the OP...
When a Werewolf is properly built/played, they are very, very, powerful and dangerous; especially when they are in a pack and run that synergy that they are capable of...
I understand why its not popular as it requires you to completely build around Lycanthropy to get the most out of it, and many people simply don't want to do that, but if you do...you will have an amazingly powerful character.
I know a guy who runs Werewolf off and on, and I remember he was fighting a Magicka Dragonknight.
The fight was pretty even...until my friend activated Werewolf Form...after that he crushed the Dragonknight very rapidly.
It was stunning to watch and really opened my eyes to how powerful Werewolves can be with the right build and the right player at the controls.
The reason he tells me that he doesn't run Werewolf fulltime is because Poison Damage is everywhere in PvP and when people see a Werewolf on the battlefield, it tends to be targeted and focused down...
But other than that, Werewolf can be really strong...
But was he running The MIGHTY CHUDAN?!?
Even it though it goes against everything that is holy and is written in the bible...he was not.
0_o
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »You know, I 100% agree with the OP...
When a Werewolf is properly built/played, they are very, very, powerful and dangerous; especially when they are in a pack and run that synergy that they are capable of...
I understand why its not popular as it requires you to completely build around Lycanthropy to get the most out of it, and many people simply don't want to do that, but if you do...you will have an amazingly powerful character.
I know a guy who runs Werewolf off and on, and I remember he was fighting a Magicka Dragonknight.
The fight was pretty even...until my friend activated Werewolf Form...after that he crushed the Dragonknight very rapidly.
It was stunning to watch and really opened my eyes to how powerful Werewolves can be with the right build and the right player at the controls.
The reason he tells me that he doesn't run Werewolf fulltime is because Poison Damage is everywhere in PvP and when people see a Werewolf on the battlefield, it tends to be targeted and focused down...
But other than that, Werewolf can be really strong...
But was he running The MIGHTY CHUDAN?!?
Even it though it goes against everything that is holy and is written in the bible...he was not.
0_o
Ah, you're awesome, so much fun
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vampire:
Would like to see the undeath passive tuned down just a little. Otherwise vampire is ok
Werewolfs:
* You´ve to create a specific build for it, or else it won´t work. Trying to be "useful" in both human and WW-form will just make you mediocre in both.
* They´re very strong in 1v1, but scales extremely poorly when outnumbered. This is mainly due to WW´s not having any ways to remove snares or purge DoT´s. So from that point of view werewolf lacks mobility.
Werewolfs isn´t by any means weak if build correctly. However I feel that they´re somewhat outdated. At the moment I feel they lack ways to benefit a group. There´re 2-3 changes I would like to see happening:
1. Ferocious Roar:
Rework this morph completely. The base morph already gives off-balance. My suggestion for a change:
"Empowering Roar": No longer fears enemies or set them off-balance. Instead it gives you and nearby werewolfs (up to 5) major expedition and snare immunity for 8 seconds.
2. Call of the pack:
Revert the changes to this passive. If you´re 5 or more werewolfs in a group, let us have "infinite" werewolf form. No other passive in the game promotes group-play as much as this passive.
3. Hircine´s Fortitude (Optional)
The heal over time effect of this skill now applies to nearby werewolfs as well (up to 5). Any allied werewolf that gets the heal over time effect will also get major fortitude for the duration.2 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »The Dark Stalker passive is in a weird place as it relates to Nightblades.
It's ridiculous that Nightblade is built to be stealthy but gets penalized for sneak speed unless they either run vampire (for Dark Stalker) or waste a 5 piece bonus. Most players recognize that its dumb to waste a five piece bonus, so they run vampire, which makes for many Nightblade vampires.
I think it's poor planning that a class designed for stealth has to rely so heavily on being a vampire.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »The Dark Stalker passive is in a weird place as it relates to Nightblades.
It's ridiculous that Nightblade is built to be stealthy but gets penalized for sneak speed unless they either run vampire (for Dark Stalker) or waste a 5 piece bonus. Most players recognize that its dumb to waste a five piece bonus, so they run vampire, which makes for many Nightblade vampires.
I think it's poor planning that a class designed for stealth has to rely so heavily on being a vampire.
Concealed weapon for magicka, medium armor for stamina. I feel you tho. The passive which gives more spell and weapon dmg in stealth could give some speed while stealthedI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Datolite✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I've seen like 1 WW in BGs
You haven't played many BGs then.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »I know a guy who runs Werewolf off and on, and I remember he was fighting a Magicka Dragonknight.
The fight was pretty even...until my friend activated Werewolf Form...after that he crushed the Dragonknight very rapidly.
It was stunning to watch and really opened my eyes to how powerful Werewolves can be with the right build and the right player at the controls...
Yeah part of the reason is the sheer surprise factor, and also the complete change in playstyle. Your enemies have to basically switch to fighting a totally different type of player in an instant or die horribly. I can't count how many times I've been fighting or dueling and just barely surviving, then I pop WW form and absolutely demolish my opponent. It really freaks people out!0