VaranisArano wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Here is a new, and exciting thread about crown crates, a subject no one ever wants to bring up. Let's see what new and refreshing things THESE people have to say about it.

My god people complain about the dumbest ***. If you just stop thinking about it, it goes away. There are no pay to win elements in them, so nothing is lost. It's also not gambling. If I go to Vegas and spend all my money, I won't be walking away with anything, unlike with the crates that literally give you things in all of them.

Its not gambling in the sense of "I pay, I lose, I get nothing OR I pay, I win eventually, I probably don't make back what I paid."

It is, however, gambling for what you want. Compared to being able to buy items directly from the Crown Store, I have to buy Crown Crates for a random chance at what I want or enough crown gems to buy that thing, the official odds of which have not been released (unlike my state lotteries).

So, to my mind, Crown Crates are
A. Vastly inferior to the option of simply buying what I want from the Crown Store and thus only exist to make ZOS some extra profit by me having to buy more crates to get a decent chance at what I want - a very predatory practice

B. Very annoying compared to my state lottery because there at least, my state has the decency is required by law to release the odds of winning. That means the state can't monkey around with the RNG factors of winning, unlike ZOS who can monkey around however they like from season to season, since the players are dependent on an addon for information about the odds.

If I'm going to gamble to get something I want, I'd like to know my odds from an official source. I know the house always wins, but I guess I like to be an informed loser.

Based on your definition every looting process in the game (and in every MMO) is gambling, every mob, every boss, every lockpicked crate, every barrel/sack/crate, every crafting node.

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Here is a new, and exciting thread about crown crates, a subject no one ever wants to bring up. Let's see what new and refreshing things THESE people have to say about it.

My god people complain about the dumbest ***. If you just stop thinking about it, it goes away. There are no pay to win elements in them, so nothing is lost. It's also not gambling. If I go to Vegas and spend all my money, I won't be walking away with anything, unlike with the crates that literally give you things in all of them.

Its not gambling in the sense of "I pay, I lose, I get nothing OR I pay, I win eventually, I probably don't make back what I paid."

It is, however, gambling for what you want. Compared to being able to buy items directly from the Crown Store, I have to buy Crown Crates for a random chance at what I want or enough crown gems to buy that thing, the official odds of which have not been released (unlike my state lotteries).

So, to my mind, Crown Crates are
A. Vastly inferior to the option of simply buying what I want from the Crown Store and thus only exist to make ZOS some extra profit by me having to buy more crates to get a decent chance at what I want - a very predatory practice

B. Very annoying compared to my state lottery because there at least, my state has the decency is required by law to release the odds of winning. That means the state can't monkey around with the RNG factors of winning, unlike ZOS who can monkey around however they like from season to season, since the players are dependent on an addon for information about the odds.

If I'm going to gamble to get something I want, I'd like to know my odds from an official source. I know the house always wins, but I guess I like to be an informed loser.

Based on your definition every looting process in the game (and in every MMO) is gambling, every mob, every boss, every lockpicked crate, every barrel/sack/crate, every crafting node.

And the real money?

You already paid for that: you have to buy the base game, the chapters, the DLCs (or buy ESO+) - so you have paid for the chance of gambling.

xbobx wrote: »

from what i have seen, they will never respond to anything of importance like this. They only respond to fluff.

its sad. this is a great game and they are killing it with greed.

all these sales and now giving the game away basically with summerset tells me this game has taken a bit hit and they cant seem to get it through their heads that they are the problem and if they would let go of their ego and listen than this can be fixed.
Unfortunately this game is going to suffer and those programmers at zenimax will find themselves on the unemployment line soon because of upper managements inability to properly make wise decisions.

Shareholders and publishers are greedy as can be and pocketing all of the crown crate money, spending none of it on improving the servers, developing new content, or hiring more people.

Ydrisselle wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Here is a new, and exciting thread about crown crates, a subject no one ever wants to bring up. Let's see what new and refreshing things THESE people have to say about it.

My god people complain about the dumbest ***. If you just stop thinking about it, it goes away. There are no pay to win elements in them, so nothing is lost. It's also not gambling. If I go to Vegas and spend all my money, I won't be walking away with anything, unlike with the crates that literally give you things in all of them.

Its not gambling in the sense of "I pay, I lose, I get nothing OR I pay, I win eventually, I probably don't make back what I paid."

It is, however, gambling for what you want. Compared to being able to buy items directly from the Crown Store, I have to buy Crown Crates for a random chance at what I want or enough crown gems to buy that thing, the official odds of which have not been released (unlike my state lotteries).

So, to my mind, Crown Crates are
A. Vastly inferior to the option of simply buying what I want from the Crown Store and thus only exist to make ZOS some extra profit by me having to buy more crates to get a decent chance at what I want - a very predatory practice

B. Very annoying compared to my state lottery because there at least, my state has the decency is required by law to release the odds of winning. That means the state can't monkey around with the RNG factors of winning, unlike ZOS who can monkey around however they like from season to season, since the players are dependent on an addon for information about the odds.

If I'm going to gamble to get something I want, I'd like to know my odds from an official source. I know the house always wins, but I guess I like to be an informed loser.

Based on your definition every looting process in the game (and in every MMO) is gambling, every mob, every boss, every lockpicked crate, every barrel/sack/crate, every crafting node.

If you can't tell the difference between randomly generated loot tables for mobs, bosses, crates and chests that are a part of gameplay in a video game I'm paying for and randomly generated prizes in a crown crate I'm buying because I can't get those items any other way than gambling that isn't gameplay but rather profit-driven cosmetics, I'm not really sure what to tell you.

Locking the crown crate items behind gambling is a profit-driven decision. I don't dispute ZOS's right to do so, but I do wish they'd release the odds.

Viscous119 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

The first and second season of Crown Crates had some very fair drop rates. They've only gotten worse which is why I buy little or none

I wrote a thread the day they introduced warning of the trend to lower drop rates over time while adding more desirable loot box exclusive items . The very same Marketer from SWOTOR was hired here to manage them . Do not be lax with real money be frugal if possible avoid them . It's a trend that's lead to much controversy but could be solved by consumers if they wished in mass . Whales make this even more difficult as they purchase lots and the data shows this is most profitable . Created our own problem here . Can't change the world but you can change yourself and never be let down .

The difference between ESO and SWOTOR is that everything from those crate packs ARE NOT bound to the character and can be sold to anyone in the Auction house our by direct trade. Why does ESO bind crate items to the player?? Because they don't want you to make money from ESO, which is really sad.

If being "sad" is a good thing, then yes, it is "sad".

klowdy1 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Here is a new, and exciting thread about crown crates, a subject no one ever wants to bring up. Let's see what new and refreshing things THESE people have to say about it.

My god people complain about the dumbest ***. If you just stop thinking about it, it goes away. There are no pay to win elements in them, so nothing is lost. It's also not gambling. If I go to Vegas and spend all my money, I won't be walking away with anything, unlike with the crates that literally give you things in all of them.

Its not gambling in the sense of "I pay, I lose, I get nothing OR I pay, I win eventually, I probably don't make back what I paid."

It is, however, gambling for what you want. Compared to being able to buy items directly from the Crown Store, I have to buy Crown Crates for a random chance at what I want or enough crown gems to buy that thing, the official odds of which have not been released (unlike my state lotteries).

So, to my mind, Crown Crates are
A. Vastly inferior to the option of simply buying what I want from the Crown Store and thus only exist to make ZOS some extra profit by me having to buy more crates to get a decent chance at what I want - a very predatory practice

B. Very annoying compared to my state lottery because there at least, my state has the decency is required by law to release the odds of winning. That means the state can't monkey around with the RNG factors of winning, unlike ZOS who can monkey around however they like from season to season, since the players are dependent on an addon for information about the odds.

If I'm going to gamble to get something I want, I'd like to know my odds from an official source. I know the house always wins, but I guess I like to be an informed loser.

Then doesn't the fact that ZoS doesn't have to publish odds in your state say something about the crates. The government doesn't think it's gambling, the company doesn't see it as gambling, and at least half of the player base doesn't see it as gambling. Seems like the one side outweighs the other.

I am an advocate for personal freedom. If you remove these, a form of that is gone. If they stay, nothing is taken from you. You can ignore the crates, as many that believe RL gambling is wrong do, and your gameplay is only affected by your own personal hangups. If crates are removed, there is no outlet for the people that find them enjoyable. It is not fair to take something that has absolutely zero bearing on the outcome of gameplay, simply because you didn't get what you wanted from them.

If people have a problem with gambling, that isn't alleviated by removing crates. At least Vito isn't roaming the city looking for some legs to break because you bought too many crates. If people with gambling problems see them as gambling, then they need to remove themselves from the situation, as they do with many other aspects of life, though I highly doubt someone with a slot machine addiction, or a problem with the ponies would consider this a problem.

Anyone remember when he goes to an NA meeting in Half Baked, and they all boo him out when they find out it was just for w***? Present this to someone with an actual gambling problem and see what they have to say. If anything, this is more of a gaming problem.

Would you like to, at any point, respond to what I'm actually saying instead of jumping to the assumption that I'm advocating for the removal of Crown Crates without an alternative? Or, for that matter, that I'm somehow against Crown Crates because I'm against real-life gambling like lotteries and somehow can't tell the difference? Because I have not done so and I'm not an anti-gambling crusader by any means.

My argument, rather, is as follows:
I would prefer for:
A. ZOS to release Crown Crate items for purchase in the Crown Store by consumers. I prefer to buy what I want rather than buy a chance at what I want.Obviously ZOS has not done this because they make greater profit by forcing consumers to buy more crates to get a chance or the crown gems to buy what they want. Its is ZOS' right to make that sort of profit-driven decision.

B. ZOS to release the odds of getting various items or at least tiers of items, similar to the way my state lotteries have to release the odds of getting different levels of rewards. That way, I have an official source for my odds so I can calculate the effective worth to me of the Crown Crates AND I can know that ZOS doesn't mess with the odds from season to season. See, I know the house always wins, but I prefer to be an informed loser. Arguments over whether or not this is "gambling" or exactly equivalent to state lotteries aren't really the point, except to illustrate that I prefer the relative transparency of state lotteries and other forms of gambling to the lack of official transparency ZOS practices when asking me to buy crates to get a chance at an item I want.

I appreciate responses to me that address what I actually suggested instead of assuming that I'm advocating for the blanket removal of all crown crates and the items therein, which I am not. Have that argument with some other poster. Realistically, i don't expect (A) to happen because has clearly decided on this profit-driven model and will likely continue to do so, nor do I expect (B) to happen unless ZOS is compelled to publish the odds for legal reasons which I do not anticipate happening anytime soon. That I don't expect either of those things to happen does not mean I can't argue in favor of them, just that I'm realistically pessimistic of their chances of implementation.

And of course, the above are what I would prefer to happen. Other people can, of course, have differing preferences.

klowdy1 wrote: »

It's also not gambling

Forgive me if I'll take the word of Merriam-Webster and Oxford over some dude on the forums.

It's gambling. Plain and simple.

I think, as long as Zos is smart enough to avoid putting gameplay essential items in the crates, the crown crates will lose far less money than they gain...for the time being. As it stands, the most desirable items are cosmetic in nature, and I think most people are willing to let that slide.

If they give into temptation, and legitimately start hamstringing the gameplay experience and things that alleviate that issue suddenly start appearing in crown crates, then it’ll become a big enough problem that they’ll lose customers.

Arnorien16 wrote: »

I am posting on behalf of /u/ItsTheBeard on Reddit since he in unable to post here himself.

That technically violates ToS. Wonder if they will bring your thread down with that much good will from the playerbase. Moving on...

Arnorien16 wrote: »

Advertise the drop rates on the Crown Store

Pretty much this. From what I've been told, it is whats becoming mandatory by law (and should be, for ANY game of chance), and just isn't here yet. That said, judging by sales of crown crates, why would they change a thing given how effective they are?