A Request to ZeniMax: "It's not about the money. It's about transparency.

Kingslayer513 · March 2018

I do like threads such as this one because it reaffirms my conviction to never buy crown crates, despite frequently eyeing their contents. Haven't bought any yet, so thanks OP for helping to keep the streak going.

TelvanniWizard · March 2018

Ladies and gentlemen, the crates are a scam. If the devs really took pride in the things they release they would be in the crown store, ready to be directly bought by the fans. By every fan. Instead we have a gambling system designed to take the money from the people, and add it to the already big pile of money they get from subs and sells. It´s not about transparency, but about objectives. If the objective was giving the players a nice chance to help the development with money, items would be in the store. But the objective is money here. Not to give us quality. The quality clients deserve.

I saw "Player one ready" the other day (was a special preview). I won´t spoil it for you, but in the end, the game developer said to the main character: "Thank you for playing my game". I think this is how things should be. The developers should take pride for the art masterieces they give to the players. Of course, there´s the business. This ain´t an indie company. But there is also a medium term. Today, I don´t believe that devs are as commited with TES as their playerbase is. I think that money is turning everything from this game, and TES universe, into some kind of generic fantasy setting, mediocrity where there could, and should be excellence. Another example is Summerset. The devs have plainly ignored lore in the making of the new chapter. They could have made an effort, and design something unique. Instead, we have Daggerfall 2.0. Why? I don´t know. Perhaps rushed to sell earlier. Pehaps, didn´t care at all.

I love they game, as I suppose does every other poster here, trying to have a better game and enviroment. Videogames are art, and art doesn´t work in a one-way direction. I just hope (foolishly, probably) that some of this reaches the ear of someone in ZOS or Bethesda. For we players can argue and debate, but the power resides in the devs, and, as is my very personal and own opinion, they aren´t using that power for the wellfare of the game, nor the TES series, but instead to center themselves exclusively in making money, something that shouldn´t be the only objective.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

Gentlemen?

Welcome to 2018!

The bottle is open and the genie is well and truly out. When all this microtrans stuff first reared its head, I swore I'd never play a game that had it. I ran out of games. Yaaay, beancounters.

I would be tremendously surprised were the industry able to (or even want to) stuff that genie back in the bottle. It's grown entirely too fat.

Okiir · March 2018

Arnorien16 wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

the second expansion doesn't have as much content. The new job is what made morrowind more money. They never listened to squat. and its only 10 dollars cheaper, cdn, its still overpriced.

content like that should be 20 to 25 at most.

they just make really dumb decisions.

just think of how much money they lose by having limited crown items. If mounts, houses , etc would just stay up in the store they would make millions more.

they really have no clue what they are doing from a business perspective, hence why the game failed on a sub model.

and again, they will ignore this and yet, they are losing so much money.

there are a few mounts i want but will never get because they are not on the store, but if they were, i would be spending money. i bet there are 1000s of people like me with other items

Wonderful to know that you are already aware how much content is in a zone that is double the size of Morrowind

I'm not sure where people get this from, wishful thinking maybe? They said during the announcement that Summerset and Artaeum combined was larger than Vvardenfell. That's a subtle way of saying; no, it's not larger.

Minyassa · March 2018

Shawn_PT wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

The first and second season of Crown Crates had some very fair drop rates. They've only gotten worse which is why I buy little or none

This. When an extra golden card popped up you could get your hopes up of getting some amazing reward. Now chances are you'll get another (trash) consumable in the form of an exp scroll. Or a Homestead statue/banner. How many of us buy the boxes because they want a red drape no one looks at on their walls?

Extra experience is only good for a tiny bit of time and only helpful to anyone leveling a character. Besides there are already other sources of extra exp in the game, acquired with good old regular gold. For people like me who don't much care to level more characters, a crown scroll IS trash.

Since the crates came out I only got a single unique mount and that was the storm atronach guar. Since then I have received maybe two or three extra golden cards and guess what, they were all scrolls. I know we can trade them for a meagre amount of gems but it still feels like a kick in the (Crown) jewels. It's very discouraging.

THIS. That gold card thing...that's just cruel, honestly. Gold is *supposed* to mean an amazing reward, not a memento or a sad turtle robot mask. Got my hopes up twice only to dash them into the ground, with that accursed cat mocking me all the while. Stop with the gold-level trash. I can live with not winning good stuff, but don't make me think for a second that I won good stuff, that's mean-spirited.

TelvanniWizard · March 2018

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Gentlemen?

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Gentlemen?

Guess I was too subtle.

You forgot the ladies.

TelvanniWizard · March 2018

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Gentlemen?

Guess I was too subtle. You forgot the ladies.

Solved. Thank you, subtle rascal.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Gentlemen?

Guess I was too subtle. You forgot the ladies.

Solved. Thank you, subtle rascal.

Thanks!

MornaBaine · March 2018

I used to be excited for the crown store showcase and there would always be something in there I really wanted. That hasn't been the case in months. And the stuff they DO put out is extremely shoddy. Costumes that don't dye properly and even costumes that have serious animation problems like the armpit "holes" in the recent Nocturnal robe. And they NEVER fix these things. Ever. People are quick to say that gamble box items and crown store items cannot take away from things like fixing the MANY things that are wrong with the game because the separate teams working on game fixes and improvements aren't the same people churning out substandard costumes. And that's true to a point. But here's the rub: Money that should be going to well pay a staff of truly competent devs is pretty clearly going instead to pay a group of shoddy artists to pump out terrible cosmetics and player housing with innumerable flaws that, even when repeatedly reported on things like PTS, they just release as is anyway.

Ojustaboo · March 2018

Whenever they give away free crown crates, the rubbish I get just clarifies that for me, i will never ever buy them

Doctordarkspawn · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Why can't he post here him self?

@Knowledge

Forum accounts are not automatic, nor are they handed out with every account. They usually are, but if you miss the email, you dont get another. You probably know, but you know. Just stating it for the record.

Unless you ask, which is a crapshoot. I have to ask about four seperate times to get a forum account.

There are plenty of people who are elligable to have a forum account but simply lost that email. It's probably -why- there are less people on the forums. It just isn't the same login, like it is in other games. And I guarentee you. If it was that easy, we'd likely see alot more people protesting these changes people on the forums like to adapt to so quickly to, and shame others for refusing.

Royaji · March 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Why can't he post here him self?

@Knowledge

Forum accounts are not automatic, nor are they handed out with every account. They usually are, but if you miss the email, you dont get another. You probably know, but you know. Just stating it for the record.

Unless you ask, which is a crapshoot. I have to ask about four seperate times to get a forum account.

There are plenty of people who are elligable to have a forum account but simply lost that email. It's probably -why- there are less people on the forums.

A quick message to customer support solves it. And I'm talking from experience here.

MornaBaine · March 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Why can't he post here him self?

@Knowledge

Forum accounts are not automatic, nor are they handed out with every account. They usually are, but if you miss the email, you dont get another. You probably know, but you know. Just stating it for the record.

Unless you ask, which is a crapshoot. I have to ask about four seperate times to get a forum account.

There are plenty of people who are elligable to have a forum account but simply lost that email. It's probably -why- there are less people on the forums.

A quick message to customer support solves it. And I'm talking from experience here.

But why did they change things to make it harder to get a forum account in the first place?

Doctordarkspawn · March 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Why can't he post here him self?

@Knowledge

Forum accounts are not automatic, nor are they handed out with every account. They usually are, but if you miss the email, you dont get another. You probably know, but you know. Just stating it for the record.

Unless you ask, which is a crapshoot. I have to ask about four seperate times to get a forum account.

There are plenty of people who are elligable to have a forum account but simply lost that email. It's probably -why- there are less people on the forums.

A quick message to customer support solves it. And I'm talking from experience here.

I had to send more than one.

Much like with every customer support story, it really does depend on who you manage to get ahold of. It's still one of those things that's an un-necessary run-around however you look at it, however.

Slick_007 · March 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Crown crates like casinos are mathematically designed to make sure you are a loser 9 out of 10 times.

the usual lies peddled by the anti crate crowd who misrepresent how crates work. Casinos you can lose everything and walk out with nothing. Crates you will ALWAYS GET SOMETHING. you cannot lose. That doesnt mean you'll get what you want, but you cannot lose like a casino. Stop peddling lies

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Crown crates like casinos are mathematically designed to make sure you are a loser 9 out of 10 times.

the usual lies peddled by the anti crate crowd who misrepresent how crates work. Casinos you can lose everything and walk out with nothing. Crates you will ALWAYS GET SOMETHING. you cannot lose. That doesnt mean you'll get what you want, but you cannot lose like a casino. Stop peddling lies

I gave up pointing this out. It seems so obvious but I guess it isn't.

It's like the kids here in Germany (and some adults

) who buy Kinder Eggs. No, you don't always get that campaign's über items but you do always get a toy. Hasn't turned German kids into gambling addicts either.

xbobx · March 2018

Arnorien16 wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

the second expansion doesn't have as much content. The new job is what made morrowind more money. They never listened to squat. and its only 10 dollars cheaper, cdn, its still overpriced.

content like that should be 20 to 25 at most.

they just make really dumb decisions.

just think of how much money they lose by having limited crown items. If mounts, houses , etc would just stay up in the store they would make millions more.

they really have no clue what they are doing from a business perspective, hence why the game failed on a sub model.

and again, they will ignore this and yet, they are losing so much money.

there are a few mounts i want but will never get because they are not on the store, but if they were, i would be spending money. i bet there are 1000s of people like me with other items

Wonderful to know that you are already aware how much content is in a zone that is double the size of Morrowind, has a new Guild and Skill line even before the PTR (Just like how you know they are loosing so much money). Not to mention offering both Morrowind with Summerset for 10$ cheaper compared to the a single expansion last time clearly shows they are being greedy.

And unlike your foolish assumptions releasing the rates wont change anything for the most cases. Anyone who cares about rates can find the rates thanks to data gathered by addons. It is a principle issue and meant for newer players. We vets already know the rough rates, and there is literally no reason not to state it officially.

Also you are a fool if you think exclusivity doesnt promote impulse purchases. As much as some may dislike it it, limited offers are attractive because they are limited and sets them apart from others ... which is the entire point of cosmetics.

where did i say i didn't think it promotes impulsive purchases? but i guarantee it wont be more than adding it later to the crown store later.

and you comments on the rates just shows me how little you know, how naïve, and how young you must be

Arnorien16 · March 2018

xbobx wrote: »

where did i say i didn't think it promotes impulsive purchases? but i guarantee it wont be more than adding it later to the crown store later.

Guarantee based on what? I like to see something solid behind your implication.

and you comments on the rates just shows me how little you know, how naïve, and how young you must be

Hearthstone released their drop rates where gameplay actually depends on what drops. The rates are abysmally low compared to its importance and it still goes along without much controversy. What makes you think cosmetic lootdrop rates going to cause any paradigm shift? Especially considering hugely popular games like Counter strike and overwatch has them without much uproar?

Elsonso · March 2018

Arnorien16 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

And ZOS keep raking in the cash and bringing out more crown crate items and cosmetics than focusing on fixing base game issues because that’s not where the money is.

Just the point out the Art team who makes new costumes and mounts for Crown Store are not taking resources away from those who code and script. Its totally different disciplines. Rather the art team's work is funding the work of the coders.

Just to repeat what has been said over and over. It is not about the person doing the Crown Store stuff not being the person who fixes bugs and does performance tuning. It is about the studio paying for the Crown Store artist so that new stuff can be rolled out monthly, and quarterly, but not paying the bug fixing and performance tuning person to do the same thing, on a monthly, or even quarterly, basis. The art team is apparently not funding much of that.

The art team earns them money. The programmers and coders do not directly do that. Need more of the former, less of the latter. That is what it looks like from this chair.

Summerset might be the example that proves it, too. Lots of art in that Chapter. Did they spend money on the rest of the game?

VaranisArano · March 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Arnorien16 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

And ZOS keep raking in the cash and bringing out more crown crate items and cosmetics than focusing on fixing base game issues because that’s not where the money is.

Just the point out the Art team who makes new costumes and mounts for Crown Store are not taking resources away from those who code and script. Its totally different disciplines. Rather the art team's work is funding the work of the coders.

Just to repeat what has been said over and over. It is not about the person doing the Crown Store stuff not being the person who fixes bugs and does performance tuning. It is about the studio paying for the Crown Store artist so that new stuff can be rolled out monthly, and quarterly, but not paying the bug fixing and performance tuning person to do the same thing, on a monthly, or even quarterly, basis. The art team is apparently not funding much of that.

The art team earns them money. The programmers and coders do not directly do that. Need more of the former, less of the latter. That is what it looks like from this chair.

Summerset might be the example that proves it, too. Lots of art in that Chapter. Did they spend money on the rest of the game?

The sad thing is, if the programmers and the coders were actually able to fix the bugs and the server lag/instability I'd probably be a lot more willing to throw lots of money at this game.

I'm all for the new art. I'm definitely buying the new stuff. But I'm staying in game for the fun of playing PVP with friends, and the bugs and lag are definitely sapping my enthusiasm for the parts of the game I spend the most time on.

klowdy1 · March 2018

Here is a new, and exciting thread about crown crates, a subject no one ever wants to bring up. Let's see what new and refreshing things THESE people have to say about it.

My god people complain about the dumbest ***. If you just stop thinking about it, it goes away. There are no pay to win elements in them, so nothing is lost. It's also not gambling. If I go to Vegas and spend all my money, I won't be walking away with anything, unlike with the crates that literally give you things in all of them.

James-Wayne · March 2018

If CD Project Red bring out a MMORPG and start giving free stuff away watch the game market change ☺

VaranisArano · March 2018

klowdy1 wrote: »

Here is a new, and exciting thread about crown crates, a subject no one ever wants to bring up. Let's see what new and refreshing things THESE people have to say about it.

My god people complain about the dumbest ***. If you just stop thinking about it, it goes away. There are no pay to win elements in them, so nothing is lost. It's also not gambling. If I go to Vegas and spend all my money, I won't be walking away with anything, unlike with the crates that literally give you things in all of them.

Its not gambling in the sense of "I pay, I lose, I get nothing OR I pay, I win eventually, I probably don't make back what I paid."

It is, however, gambling for what you want. Compared to being able to buy items directly from the Crown Store, I have to buy Crown Crates for a random chance at what I want or enough crown gems to buy that thing, the official odds of which have not been released (unlike my state lotteries).

So, to my mind, Crown Crates are
A. Vastly inferior to the option of simply buying what I want from the Crown Store and thus only exist to make ZOS some extra profit by me having to buy more crates to get a decent chance at what I want - a very predatory practice

B. Very annoying compared to my state lottery because there at least, my state has the decency is required by law to release the odds of winning. That means the state can't monkey around with the RNG factors of winning, unlike ZOS who can monkey around however they like from season to season, since the players are dependent on an addon for information about the odds.

If I'm going to gamble to get something I want, I'd like to know my odds from an official source. I know the house always wins, but I guess I like to be an informed loser.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Here is a new, and exciting thread about crown crates, a subject no one ever wants to bring up. Let's see what new and refreshing things THESE people have to say about it.

My god people complain about the dumbest ***. If you just stop thinking about it, it goes away. There are no pay to win elements in them, so nothing is lost. It's also not gambling. If I go to Vegas and spend all my money, I won't be walking away with anything, unlike with the crates that literally give you things in all of them.

Its not gambling in the sense of "I pay, I lose, I get nothing OR I pay, I win eventually, I probably don't make back what I paid."

It is, however, gambling for what you want. Compared to being able to buy items directly from the Crown Store, I have to buy Crown Crates for a random chance at what I want or enough crown gems to buy that thing, the official odds of which have not been released (unlike my state lotteries).

So, to my mind, Crown Crates are
A. Vastly inferior to the option of simply buying what I want from the Crown Store and thus only exist to make ZOS some extra profit by me having to buy more crates to get a decent chance at what I want - a very predatory practice

B. Very annoying compared to my state lottery because there at least, my state has the decency is required by law to release the odds of winning. That means the state can't monkey around with the RNG factors of winning, unlike ZOS who can monkey around however they like from season to season, since the players are dependent on an addon for information about the odds.

If I'm going to gamble to get something I want, I'd like to know my odds from an official source. I know the house always wins, but I guess I like to be an informed loser.

I like the idea of the odds being published. I already see this as an optional thing (buying crates), likely because I'm not chasing the über mounts (don't care for most of them). For those who do, knowing those odds could help them decide if it was worth it.

JD2013 · March 2018

Elsonso · March 2018

klowdy1 wrote: »

If you just stop thinking about it, it goes away.

Just because you are looking the other way does not mean that the problem goes away.

The Crown Store, and Crown Crates, unburden the studio from having to release content that is compelling and functional. As revenue from the cash shop increases compared to revenue from game sales, it becomes voluntary. A matter of discipline. As a player willing to spend money on the game, I don't want that. I want them to take the time, and money, to make compelling and functional content additions to the game. Stuff that works like it should, and when it does not, gets fixed. That is what I want to pay them for.

Crown Crates do not serve me to that end. They might be generating tons of money for them, but that does not mean the game is going to be getting better because of it. Ignoring them does not change that.

The suggestions in the OP will help fix Crown Crates, and that is a start, but more is needed to really address the problem.

TelvanniWizard · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Here is a new, and exciting thread about crown crates, a subject no one ever wants to bring up. Let's see what new and refreshing things THESE people have to say about it.

My god people complain about the dumbest ***. If you just stop thinking about it, it goes away. There are no pay to win elements in them, so nothing is lost. It's also not gambling. If I go to Vegas and spend all my money, I won't be walking away with anything, unlike with the crates that literally give you things in all of them.

Its not gambling in the sense of "I pay, I lose, I get nothing OR I pay, I win eventually, I probably don't make back what I paid."

It is, however, gambling for what you want. Compared to being able to buy items directly from the Crown Store, I have to buy Crown Crates for a random chance at what I want or enough crown gems to buy that thing, the official odds of which have not been released (unlike my state lotteries).

So, to my mind, Crown Crates are
A. Vastly inferior to the option of simply buying what I want from the Crown Store and thus only exist to make ZOS some extra profit by me having to buy more crates to get a decent chance at what I want - a very predatory practice

B. Very annoying compared to my state lottery because there at least, my state has the decency is required by law to release the odds of winning. That means the state can't monkey around with the RNG factors of winning, unlike ZOS who can monkey around however they like from season to season, since the players are dependent on an addon for information about the odds.

If I'm going to gamble to get something I want, I'd like to know my odds from an official source. I know the house always wins, but I guess I like to be an informed loser.

A and B. Both so true. A is specially what grinds my gears.

Iselin · March 2018

IDK what having a lot of disposable income has to do with anything. There are tons of things I can easily afford that I won't go anywhere near because they're bad deals for rubes. Crown crates is one of those.

GreenhaloX · March 2018

Arnorien16 wrote: »

I am posting on behalf of /u/ItsTheBeard on Reddit since he in unable to post here himself.

... The whole "you can be anything and do anything" quote is seriously true!

A bit of an exaggeration here, but I get it. I don't even mess with the crown crates stuff other than when it was given out free during those free events thingy.

VaranisArano wrote: »

At least with the lottery, you can figure out how much money you are likely to lose. The lack of transparency around crown crates compared to other forms of gambling is striking.

.. or you can also win, with the lottery. I don't pay real money for the crown crates, but I do for the lottery. At least for the lottery (Powerball, etc..) you can still win real money. Oh heck, I have yet to be the multi-millionaires, but I have won plenty of times $25, $100, and even 500 dollars here and there. I'll keep spending my dole on the lottery, versus the crown crates.