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The Problem with Shieldbreaker
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How is Leap an exclusive threat to your class? It is dangerous for everyone, and everyone can block it.
Shieldbreaker is only a hard counter against sorcs, as they have no good HoTs to counter it. THIS are most arguments here.
Sorc being sucky in the current meta is just the nail in the coffin.2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Unfadingsilence wrote: »100% L2P post here people just move on...
BTW I love when a sorc is getting hit with SB and what do they do?? Stack more shields.... smh like come on STOP STACKING SHIELDS!! put pressure on the kid using SB if that's his only way of killing you then just put pressure on them and kill them or watch them run GG
That's a bad example. One of the issues is getting incap from stealth and then light attacks. If you are at low health you have no time to wait on healing ward. Putting pressure on your attacker is fine and all, but not effective if he has any idea what he's doing. Decent players are using this set and it's effectiveness against an already hurting class is over the top. You have to have either rapid Regen slotted or a resto ult up, or LOS.
What's wrong with this? So there is a counter to a set that sucks donkey balls against all other builds? I always thought that was a big enough counter for shield breaker in it's self. Hell, I have to slot deadly cloak to help survive all the leaps from DK's, I guess leaps should be removed because I have to counter for it.
No, SB is fine, most of the arguments in here are just, sorcs are underpowerd so remove shield breaker. I don't agree with this at all.
Cheers.
If you want a set that is a counter to shields then it should be a set that deals more dmg to shields. Not one that completely ignores them by just spamming light attack because you are too bad to actually use ur skills and you want crutches to carry you.3 -
rimmidimdim✭✭✭How is Leap an exclusive threat to your class? It is dangerous for everyone, and everyone can block it.
Shieldbreaker is only a hard counter against sorcs, as they have no good HoTs to counter it. THIS are most arguments here.
Sorc being sucky in the current meta is just the nail in the coffin.
My argument still stands. I like to counter leaps, I like too counter lots of things. Some people counter cloak with detect pots, that's a counter to a specific class, guess detect pots and mage light ect should be removed? Shield breaker is a counter to shields. And as a counter too shields, it sucks against all else. It's as it should be and I don't think sorcs are underpowerd.1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »How is Leap an exclusive threat to your class? It is dangerous for everyone, and everyone can block it.
Shieldbreaker is only a hard counter against sorcs, as they have no good HoTs to counter it. THIS are most arguments here.
Sorc being sucky in the current meta is just the nail in the coffin.
My argument still stands. I like to counter leaps, I like too counter lots of things. Some people counter cloak with detect pots, that's a counter to a specific class, guess detect pots and mage light ect should be removed? Shield breaker is a counter to shields. And as a counter too shields, it sucks against all else. It's as it should be and I don't think sorcs are underpowerd.
Shieldbreaker isn't like a counter to leap, or countering cloak with detect pots.
These things don't kill you.
Shieldbreaker will kill the sorc in every case.
There are nightblades who rank in the top 3 in duel tournaments without cloak, people can be killed without leap but a sorc can't survive an actual fight without shields.
Also a counter to shields would be more damage to them not dealing damage to the caster1 -
rimmidimdim✭✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Unfadingsilence wrote: »100% L2P post here people just move on...
BTW I love when a sorc is getting hit with SB and what do they do?? Stack more shields.... smh like come on STOP STACKING SHIELDS!! put pressure on the kid using SB if that's his only way of killing you then just put pressure on them and kill them or watch them run GG
That's a bad example. One of the issues is getting incap from stealth and then light attacks. If you are at low health you have no time to wait on healing ward. Putting pressure on your attacker is fine and all, but not effective if he has any idea what he's doing. Decent players are using this set and it's effectiveness against an already hurting class is over the top. You have to have either rapid Regen slotted or a resto ult up, or LOS.
What's wrong with this? So there is a counter to a set that sucks donkey balls against all other builds? I always thought that was a big enough counter for shield breaker in it's self. Hell, I have to slot deadly cloak to help survive all the leaps from DK's, I guess leaps should be removed because I have to counter for it.
No, SB is fine, most of the arguments in here are just, sorcs are underpowerd so remove shield breaker. I don't agree with this at all.
Cheers.
If you want a set that is a counter to shields then it should be a set that deals more dmg to shields. Not one that completely ignores them by just spamming light attack because you are too bad to actually use ur skills and you want crutches to carry you.
The issue of me being too bad is not a valid argument. It has no bearing on Anything.
But you want to change it to an increase total damage done too shields.? Like major or miner berserk but only to shields? So what you thinking, a 25% increase? 30%. It's a decent idea but idk if sorcs would like that either. Also it's against your argument of taking skill to use. You say shield breaker takes no skill cause you spam like attacks, well your idea even takes less skill. But, besides the bad reasons for your idea, I don't necessarily hate it. It will still be a counter to shields and suck otherwise.Edited by rimmidimdim on March 21, 2018 6:14PM0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »How is Leap an exclusive threat to your class? It is dangerous for everyone, and everyone can block it.
Shieldbreaker is only a hard counter against sorcs, as they have no good HoTs to counter it. THIS are most arguments here.
Sorc being sucky in the current meta is just the nail in the coffin.
My argument still stands. I like to counter leaps, I like too counter lots of things. Some people counter cloak with detect pots, that's a counter to a specific class, guess detect pots and mage light ect should be removed? Shield breaker is a counter to shields. And as a counter too shields, it sucks against all else. It's as it should be and I don't think sorcs are underpowerd.
Your argument entirely ignores the fact that in bypassing shields, Shieldbreaker not only counters the primary defensive mechanic of a magicka Sorc but also their primary heal.
The Leap argument also ignores that Leap offers mitigating counterplay in the same way as any other direct damage AoE (blocking, resistances, shields) beyond ignoring dodge roll (provided it hits in the first place). Whereas Shieldbreaker ignores any mitigation.
As for detect pots vs Cloak, that at least can be considered a hard counter (unlike Leap vs whatever you're playing). It nullifies the invisibility for an extended duration. But unlike Shieldbreaker, it doesn't do anything against the NB's healing, mitigation still counts, the uptime is limited and it still requires actual skill useage to pressure opponent's.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »How is Leap an exclusive threat to your class? It is dangerous for everyone, and everyone can block it.
Shieldbreaker is only a hard counter against sorcs, as they have no good HoTs to counter it. THIS are most arguments here.
Sorc being sucky in the current meta is just the nail in the coffin.
My argument still stands. I like to counter leaps, I like too counter lots of things. Some people counter cloak with detect pots, that's a counter to a specific class, guess detect pots and mage light ect should be removed? Shield breaker is a counter to shields. And as a counter too shields, it sucks against all else. It's as it should be and I don't think sorcs are underpowerd.
Your argument entirely ignores the fact that in bypassing shields, Shieldbreaker not only counters the primary defensive mechanic of a magicka Sorc but also their primary heal.
The Leap argument also ignores that Leap offers mitigating counterplay in the same way as any other direct damage AoE (blocking, resistances, shields) beyond ignoring dodge roll (provided it hits in the first place). Whereas Shieldbreaker ignores any mitigation.
As for detect pots vs Cloak, that at least can be considered a hard counter (unlike Leap vs whatever you're playing). It nullifies the invisibility for an extended duration. But unlike Shieldbreaker, it doesn't do anything against the NB's healing, mitigation still counts, the uptime is limited and it still requires actual skill useage to pressure opponent's.
I love it when nightblades compare shieldbreaker to detect pots.
So then we should change shieldbreaker to only proc every 45 seconds and last for about 15?
Fair is fair.2 -
rimmidimdim✭✭✭Is shieldbreaker in game to counter shields? Yes. Only sorc shields? No.
Does using shieldbreaker gimp you against other builds that don't use shields? Yes.
Are there counters to being attack by a shieldbreaker wearer? Yes.
Is shieldbreaker OP in duels against shield users? Idk, maybe, but game should not be balanced on duels.
My comparing other counters in game too shieldbreaker is still good points, why? Cause there are counters to everything. Just wearing shieldbreaker is counter enough cause you don't know when a non shield user is around the corner.
But change shieldbreaker to do just more damage to shields as another sorc said. As long it retains the useless side against non shield users. Might be a good idea.0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭shield breaker set IS THE COUNTER TO SHIELDS
you don't need a counter for the counter. that's just foolishness.
shield breaker set is working like it is supposed to. it is not overpowered.
sorcerers still kill people that have shield breaker set on.
it makes the fight 50 / 50 giving us a chance against mass shield stacking sorcerers.0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the problem is that underneath your mass shields is that you have ZERO impen traits and your weaing ALL divines traits to MASS damage everyone else in PvP.
shield breaker set removed the shields and all u have left is a garbage build that needs to be set properly like all the other classes have 7 / 7 impen is a Great start.
just like we nightblades are forced to not use stealth and not use invisibility, just in your case, it's shields instead of stealth tools.
also: maybe start putting some points into Health and stamina instead of 100% into magicka maybe use a mundus thats not 100% magicka
there are hundreds of videos on how to make a great builds.
Edited by Gilvoth on March 21, 2018 7:59PM1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »Is shieldbreaker in game to counter shields? Yes. Only sorc shields? No.
Does using shieldbreaker gimp you against other builds that don't use shields? Yes.
Are there counters to being attack by a shieldbreaker wearer? Yes.
Is shieldbreaker OP in duels against shield users? Idk, maybe, but game should not be balanced on duels.
My comparing other counters in game too shieldbreaker is still good points, why? Cause there are counters to everything. Just wearing shieldbreaker is counter enough cause you don't know when a non shield user is around the corner.
But change shieldbreaker to do just more damage to shields as another sorc said. As long it retains the useless side against non shield users. Might be a good idea.
Yes, you can compare Shieldbreaker to other counters to make a point. Just not the one you were trying to make. >_>DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »the problem is that underneath your mass shields is that you have ZERO impen traits and your weaing ALL divines traits to MASS damage everyone else in PvP.
shield breaker set removed the shields and all u have left is a garbage build that needs to be set properly like all the other classes have 7 / 7 impen is a Great start.
just like we nightblades are forced to not use stealth and not use invisibility, just in your case, it's shields instead of stealth tools.
also: maybe start putting some points into Health and stamina instead of 100% into magicka maybe use a mundus thats not 100% magicka
there are hundreds of videos on how to make a great builds.
2200 impen. 19K stamina. Yes shieldbreaker is a little too much.
The set shouldn’t be usable outside of imperial city. The problem you are having with Sorcs there has nothing to do with shields, it has to do with the Imperial Physique set handing Sorcs over 60K Max magicka.
Imperial Physique cannot be used anywhere else. There are no super-powered god-mode Sorcs outside of imperial city.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »the problem is that underneath your mass shields is that you have ZERO impen traits and your weaing ALL divines traits to MASS damage everyone else in PvP.
shield breaker set removed the shields and all u have left is a garbage build that needs to be set properly like all the other classes have 7 / 7 impen is a Great start.
just like we nightblades are forced to not use stealth and not use invisibility, just in your case, it's shields instead of stealth tools.
also: maybe start putting some points into Health and stamina instead of 100% into magicka maybe use a mundus thats not 100% magicka
there are hundreds of videos on how to make a great builds.
It's been a long, long time since fill divines max magica builds were a thing.
Guess what, most sorcs already use impen, already have stamina built in. But still need to use light armour to be able to sustain.
Yes a NB can be forced to not use stealth, but they still have great heals, and either shields or dodge/block depending if stamina or mag. Removing cloak removed a third of a nb's available defences.
Shield breaker removes all of a sorcs defences.. you cannot compare them.
Let's look at magblade next to sorc.
Class defence - hardened ward Vs cloak -each have their counter.
Common magica defence - shield. Oh look, a marked NB can still shield. A shieldbreakered NB can still cloak. A shieldbreakered sorc is stuffed.
Heals.. to top it off, NB brings a ton of great hots. Helping if the other two are countered, Sorc gets...?
There is absolutely no comparison.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
rimmidimdim✭✭✭Just the idea that's it impossible for a shield user to play for the potential shieldbreaker encounter is a little silly. But if they won't put on a skill that will heal through it, rapid Regen for instance, maybe rest ult, maybe combat prayer, ect. Healing poisons healing glyphs whatever. Holy Hannah, a heal pot will out heal the dam thing. Whatever. I think it's a good set has lots of easily playable counters. And in it's self it's it's own counter.1
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ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »Just the idea that's it impossible for a shield user to play for the potential shieldbreaker encounter is a little silly. But if they won't put on a skill that will heal through it, rapid Regen for instance, maybe rest ult, maybe combat prayer, ect. Healing poisons healing glyphs whatever. Holy Hannah, a heal pot will out heal the dam thing. Whatever. I think it's a good set has lots of easily playable counters. And in it's self it's it's own counter.
If you believe it's so easy to outheal that just shows your lack of experience playing against it. You can deal with it perfectly fine by using several of these heals along with some CP into healing done/received. But the opportunity cost to do so is far greater than your opponent's to slot the set and it will still have an impact in a fight, especially when outnumbered.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭get a proper defence build like the rest of us instead of shield stacking and youll be fine.
you have WAY too much damage output and zero defence because you shield stack so hard that no one can break through.
so to allow the rest of the other classes the chance to pvp with you shield breaker was made.
it balanced it out and made it possible for us to be able to get a fair fight with you guys.
all you have to do now is make a proper defense and damage build Just Like the Rest of us have to and youll be fine.1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭infact, let me show you exactly what happens when a shield breaker set user tries to kill a properly built sorcerer.
this sorcerer Destroyed the shield breaker set.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWM5YmeSq_c 1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »just incase dont see it, it started at @2:37 of the video presentation.
You mean that terrible nightblade that barely attacked the Sorc? The one that got lost behind a tree?
The nightblade that didn’t bother to leave the sorc’s range, and attack with a bow and oblivion enchant, then fear/incap/sa?
The nightblade that didn’t block the incoming meteor and sucked that glowing fire rock down like candy and died super easy?
That guy is stealth. You pick when the fight starts and ends. You don’t start it when the Sorc is standing next to a huge tree for LOS. You don’t let his healing ward bring him to full. And for heaven’s sake L2Block.
Send us a video of someone who knows how to play. Oh, we already did. Beginning of this thread. This game should not be balanced around nightblades that are terrible at the game.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i led you guys to the truth and showed video proof including advice on how to handle the situation.
that shield breaker set is no threat to you.
all it does is balance the fight when you guys shield stack.1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i led you guys to the truth and showed video proof including advice on how to handle the situation.
that shield breaker set is no threat to you.
all it does is balance the fight when you guys shield stack.
We showed better proof where it clearly isn’t, when someone who knows what they’re actually doing has the set.
I have no doubts I can murder a shieldbreaker user that can’t or won’t block a freaking meteor. Sadly, most of them will.
I’m sorry you’re bad. But the only way a good player ever dies to meteor is if they’re rune caged, or some idiot teammate with the circle around him runs up from behind.Edited by Minalan on March 22, 2018 12:27AM5 -
The-Baconator✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i led you guys to the truth and showed video proof including advice on how to handle the situation.
that shield breaker set is no threat to you.
all it does is balance the fight when you guys shield stack.
The nb you linked is absolutely trash and to link it as evidence of your argument is frankly embarrassing.Edited by The-Baconator on March 22, 2018 3:11AMFirst PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
Potato Lord of Atrocity3 -
Pelican✭✭✭✭✭I think that even though shieldbreaker is extremely hard on magsorcs, especially the ones without twilight or heal over times, it is still balanced overall since magsorcs are really the only class that suffers from it. 90% of shieldbreaker users are NBs who just spam light attack on you. if you ever run into them one on one you will be able to take them out no problem. just dont ward, most of them will not realise you stopped warding. i also highly suggest any magsorc to run a heal over time (power surge, rapid regen, even dark deal). It will make fighting shieldbreaker a lot easier but more importantly you dont need to cast healing ward often. At 60% hp for example you dont need healing ward with heal over times.
Shieldbreaker users are really only a problem if they Xv1 you, but id rather a shieldbreaker spammer than a snipe spammer who takes down 3/4 of my ward every second to be honest. With heal over times, fighting shieldbreaker will basically be like an ordinary fight without heal over times, their effects cancel out.PC NA - EP Solo PvP Player
https://www.youtube.com/c/pelicaneso2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Someone mentioned a suggestion about Shieldbreaker only being active in imperial city isn´t a bad idea if you ask me.
Changing SB so it works with a condition where you´ve to have the 4x telvar multiplier active to make use of the oblivion damage.
Might not be a perfect solution but It´s an interesting proposal at least.
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ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think that even though shieldbreaker is extremely hard on magsorcs, especially the ones without twilight or heal over times, it is still balanced overall since magsorcs are really the only class that suffers from it. 90% of shieldbreaker users are NBs who just spam light attack on you. if you ever run into them one on one you will be able to take them out no problem. just dont ward, most of them will not realise you stopped warding. i also highly suggest any magsorc to run a heal over time (power surge, rapid regen, even dark deal). It will make fighting shieldbreaker a lot easier but more importantly you dont need to cast healing ward often. At 60% hp for example you dont need healing ward with heal over times.
Shieldbreaker users are really only a problem if they Xv1 you, but id rather a shieldbreaker spammer than a snipe spammer who takes down 3/4 of my ward every second to be honest. With heal over times, fighting shieldbreaker will basically be like an ordinary fight without heal over times, their effects cancel out.
Mag Sorc is the only class that suffers from it to this extend. And yes, most players who use it are bad.
But how does that make it balanced? It is not a "noob cannon" skill that is easy to use, decently effective and inferior to options that require more skill to use effectively. Instead, it is easy to use, highly effective and superior to any other option even in the hands of a very capable player, when fighting a MagSorc.
As for Snipe spammers, I find them laughably easy to deal with by comparison. The hits are less frequent, you have auditive and visual cues before being hit that also point you towards the sniper, they need to build squishy in order to do significant harm in the first place, they can't execute you through shields should your health fall low and they can't pressure you when they're out of resources...DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i led you guys to the truth and showed video proof including advice on how to handle the situation.
that shield breaker set is no threat to you.
all it does is balance the fight when you guys shield stack.
I am feeling really sorry about your missing knowledge about pvp, balance and mechanics. The video you showed proofs only that the nb was completly trash. C o m p l e t l y.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »get a proper defence build like the rest of us instead of shield stacking and youll be fine.
you have WAY too much damage output and zero defence because you shield stack so hard that no one can break through.
so to allow the rest of the other classes the chance to pvp with you shield breaker was made.
it balanced it out and made it possible for us to be able to get a fair fight with you guys.
all you have to do now is make a proper defense and damage build Just Like the Rest of us have to and youll be fine.
Tbh, i dueled a lot of nb´s, mDK, stamDK, Stam Sorc.... Everything. You know what? They managed to kill me. Also a lot of nb cause they are really hard to hit with all this cloak and rolldodge. Acutally i got killed a lot by nb´s who don´t use SB. And it was a fair fight. Cause they know how to play the class and know how to kill a sorc.
You are saying that you are not able to kill a sorc and from your Signature i assume that you are playing a nb. So why are a lot of NB´s able to kill a sorc and you can´t? The sorc´s being to strong or you just bad at this game?
Its like 10 ppl climbing a tree and only one dude can´t climb it. Normal ppl would say this dude need to learn how to climb a tree but you say the tree is just to high to climb and someone should install an ladder.
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rimmidimdim✭✭✭
The Nerf to shieldbreaker should only be the name change to "Noob Cannon". It's perfect. It's as redonkulous as this topic.Edited by rimmidimdim on March 23, 2018 8:35PM0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »get a proper defence build like the rest of us instead of shield stacking and youll be fine.
you have WAY too much damage output and zero defence because you shield stack so hard that no one can break through.
so to allow the rest of the other classes the chance to pvp with you shield breaker was made.
it balanced it out and made it possible for us to be able to get a fair fight with you guys.
all you have to do now is make a proper defense and damage build Just Like the Rest of us have to and youll be fine.
"You should build for a proper defense."
Plays NB, the class that has to build least for their defense. Yes, even shields, though they may scale if main stat require some building into.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.2 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »get a proper defence build like the rest of us instead of shield stacking and youll be fine.
you have WAY too much damage output and zero defence because you shield stack so hard that no one can break through.
so to allow the rest of the other classes the chance to pvp with you shield breaker was made.
it balanced it out and made it possible for us to be able to get a fair fight with you guys.
all you have to do now is make a proper defense and damage build Just Like the Rest of us have to and youll be fine.
"You should build for a proper defense."
Plays NB, the class that has to build least for their defense. Yes, even shields, though they may scale if main stat require some building into.
you just don't see sorcs getting beat up like what your saying.
the balance in classes is real in eso, if you dont believe it then just go to cryodiil right now and youll see its fair fighting.
all classes are doing well and killing eachother 50 / 50
shieldbreaker set is working as intended.
its a great set to balance the classes against shield stacking sorcerers, but the sorcerers are still surviving through it and killing us right back making it a fair fight.
head into cryodiil and take a look youll see its true.1